If Hillary's the pick for 2008, I'm NOT voting for her.

[devilgrrl]

end of story... sorry. :shrug:

[Randi_Listener]

1. We need a semi-rabid fucking protest.

Why not? She'll be the fucking nominee at that point.

[queeg]

2. That's ok, I'll vote twice

[devilgrrl]

5. Is voting twice allowed in Texas?

Or do you think Diebold with program their machines guaranteeing her victory?

[queeg]

12. I figure my last two votes weren't counted so I get an extra one next time

[Walt Starr]

3. Ahhh, so you're for Condaleeza Rice as president

:eyes:

[devilgrrl]

7. Oh yeah.... that's the ticket...

I think Hillary's a bad choice for 2008, which can only mean that I want Condesleeza instead.

:eyes:

[Walt Starr]

10. Well, that'll probably be the choice before you

The Repukes are already pushing Rice for president, so you're probably looking at a race shaping up to be Hillary clinton vs. Condaleeza Rice.

I'll take Clinton any day in that choice. Anything else will only help put Rice in the White House.

[devilgrrl]

13. If that's the case, looks like I'll be staying home on election day.

Barring anyone from the Bush Crime Family, I can't think of two worse candidates.

[BuyingThyme]

19. What if it was Clinton vs. Todd-Whitman?

Are there still progressives who think Christine Todd-Whitman is some kind of a progressive? Or is she viewed as Rice in sheep's clothing?

[Walt Starr]

21. Ah well, I'll be out working to get her the nomination

because I believe it'll all be over in New Hampshire.

Then the country can watch the Repukes savage each other before Rice gets the nomination because their nomination will be highly contentious.

[Kilroy003]

20. You guys forget that Iowans and the good folk of New Hampshire

generally decide who will become the nominee for each party.

Do you really think either state will allow a woman to win a primary?

Personally, I believe it's high time we rid ourselves of the "Testosterone Problem", but have any of you visited Des Moines lately?

[Calvinist Basset]

29. Excuse me . . .

I live in Iowa, and I would be proud to vote for a woman! And if Hillary becomes the candidate, I'll be voting for her (of course, I'd vote for anyone or anything against a rethug candidate).

[Kilroy003]

30. No offense...

I was referring to the visuals one gets when driving through Des Moines. You know; grain elevators, old white dudes in overalls, that kind of thing.

I know I'm reading the book by its cover, but not exactly a feminist haven, is it?

BTW; isn't Iowa one of them red states?

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. Iowa wavers some.

At one time it was a leader in the progressive-farmer movement that swept the midwest, along with Minnesota and Kansas, where all the farm co-ops developed that gave the rural vote some clout.

Of course, corporate farms have pretty much taken over and undermined that movement.

[Benhurst]

25. No way. It's going to be Jeb Bush.

[Walt Starr]

26. He won't go up against Hillary

He knows he'd lose bigtime in that one.

[Benhurst]

59. Maybe -- if, and only if, the blackbox voting problems are corrected.

Otherwise, it's "Hail to the Chief" for Jeb in 2008.

[KnowerOfLogic]

35. Right; that's the problem!!! The present dem leadership sucks;

they offer us repuke-lite candidates, and say "Hey, it's either us or the REAL Repuke." Now, you tell me how we're going to get out of this cycle, if dem voters keep falling for this shit.

[Walt Starr]

54. HILLARY CLINTON IS NOT REPUKE LITE!

Seriously. Get. A. Grip.

[Lone Pawn]

65. They're also "pushing" Giuliani, McCain, and Jeb.

[knight_of_the_star]

15. Hillary is an invitation for defeat

If she is the nominee by the convention for 2008 I'll just get on a plane and leave in July and spare myself having to deal with the humiliation of the Democratic Party running and losing with insider Dems 3 elections in a row. She is too polarizing and too much of an inviting target to be able to win, especially with Diebold and a compliant media.

[Bridget Burke]

4. Just like you voted for Nader in 2000?

I really think it's too early to spend all our energies on 2008. Don't you have a governor to get rid of?

[devilgrrl]

11. I voted for Nader in 2000? And you can prove it I presume?

:eyes:

[Bridget Burke]

61. No, I just thought you might make a habit of wasting your vote.

If you don't like Hilary, now's the time to work on getting someone better nominated.

Actually--2008 is a few years away. Working on local candidates & ensuring the votes will be counted are both more useful than the grand, dramatic gesture....

[KnowerOfLogic]

36. I voted Gore in 2000; Nader in 2004, and i'll vote for him again in 2008

if Hillary is the nominee. I will not vote for anyone who supported the war; and frankly, that's just the beginning of the list of the ways in which Hillary has gone wrong. And this is coming from someone who in the early '90's had a home-made "Hillary in '96" bumper sticker on her truck. I'm sorry, ever since Bill and Hill took all that heat right after Bill was elected, they both apparently made the decision to drink the kool-aid.

[Walt Starr]

45. yours is lost vote anyway

and you've demonstrated your support of the current situation by having NOT voted to get rid of it.

[Lone Pawn]

66. Oh, good, you threw away your vote in '04?

Nice to know that you'd rather see Bush in power than Kerry.

[Sparkle]

6. Whatever.

[devilgrrl]

18. Yep...

TFB isn't it?

[fob]

8. As a hockey fan, are you sure that's not Hockey Withdrawal talking?

[GodlessBiker]

9. I like her on many things, but

she lost my vote when she supported her husband's signing of DOMA. As far as I know, she still supports that offense piece of crap legislation.

[Jamastiene]

16. It seems like

they ALL do, sometimes. <sigh>

[GodlessBiker]

17. Not all. I don't think Kerry supported it.

[Jamastiene]

31. I know,

but it does sometimes seem like all.

[tjdee]

14. You won't have to, which is the point of nominating her in the first place

Unlike some of our past nominees, she won't have to be begging and borrowing for every single vote.

[Itsthetruth]

24. But What If ......?

But what if the Republican Party runs a right-winger for President in 2008 (a certainty)?

Anybody But _____ fill in the blank.

[Ian David]

33. Why I don't like Hillary, and who I like better

I don't like Hillary because:

1) She supports DOMA
2) She supports the Faith-based initiative
3) I think (I'm not sure) that she's anti-choice
4) She voted to confirm some of the worst nominees
5) She did not vote to contest the Ohio election

This just makes her Elizabeth-Dole-Lite.

In a perfect world, Barbara Boxer would be our next President.

At the very least, I want to see Sen. Boxer in the primaries to influence the debate more toward the left.

Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Robert Reich
Dr. Howard Dean
Carol Mosley Braun
Dr. Michael Shermer
Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA)
Rev. Barry Lynn
Al Franken
Rep. John Conyers, Jr (D-MI)
Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-MA)
Rep. Jarrett T. Barrios (D-MA)
Maya Keyes (For President in 2022)


Those are the people (In no real particular order) I would like to see run for President or Vice President.

John Kerry or Al Gore? Maybe.

I'd also love to see Al Sharpton run again, just because he's fun to watch on TV. I just hope to god Sharpton doesn't win the primaries.

[Cocoa]

22. congratulations

you must be very proud of yourself.

[oasis]

23. "end of story" An easy exit is no substitute for a reasonable explanation.

If you have one, please let us hear it.

[autorank]

27. Way too early to be worked up. By 2008, we'll have all new leaders.

First, the notion that the Iraq war ever made any sense will be completely dead period. Anyone supporting that war or collaborating with it at the onset, i.e., Hillary, will be simply unacceptable.

Second, the Democrats are doing better at opposition now than ever before. From that arise new leaders in Congress and revived candidates like Clark, who, if he chooses, can campaign from now until 2008.

Third, by 2008, Clinton will be more like Jimmy Carter than the King Maker we assume he is now. Great guy but time moves on.

We will have NEW LEADERS BY 2006 and she won't be one of them. She's old guard.

Don't trouble trouble until trouble trouble's you.

[Ian David]

38. Good point. We may be choosing from people we haven't heard of yet

Heck, we could have Kinky Friedman as our next President for all we know.

Things really ARE changing.

If there is still an America in 2008, we may not recognize it.

[shanti]

28. much as i dislike it, i'll hold my nose

and push the button for hilary....what's the option???

[KnowerOfLogic]

34. Me neither. Dems think they can nominate a war-mongering,

'centrist' sell-out and still get my vote; well, it ain't gonna happen. If they didn't learn their lesson from kerry's loss, it will be a shame for them, and a shame for the country.

[neverforget]

37. Don't worry. Whoever you support someone else won't vote for them

because of reasons x, y, and z. I love these circular firing squads. We have a little less than 3 years until the first primary and already we're hearing "i'm not voting for X because of X, Y and Z". Alot can happen between now and then, so why don't we wait and see what happens? Maybe the PERFECT candidate palpable to all people will suddenly come forward and run for President. :eyes:

[oasis]

39. But it's up to us Democrats to wound Hillary long before 2008. We are

following Rove's plan to the letter.

[neverforget]

42. The left flank should be secure for the candidate after 8 years

Bush/Neocon/Corporate/Fundie rule, but no. The candidate will have to defend left AND right flanks. No wonder we lose. :eyes:

[Snivi Yllom]

40. ditto

And she's already trying to move to the right. I could sit this one out.

[jonnyblitz]

41. I will vote for whoever the DEM candidate is.

I simplify things for myself when the time comes to vote.

[AnnInLa]

63. Ditto.....n/t

[Malva Zebrina]

43. I cannot vote again for anyone who gave Bush

authority to invade Iraq by voting yes on the IWR. I will not vote for anyone who so carelessly flipped aside the impending slaughter and deaths of so many innocent people by playing political games and who knew full well, personally, of the way Bush and the right wing conspiracies operate. That is it for me. It is not a question anymore that whoever Bush puts out there will be worse.

[Tactical Progressive]

44. If it's anybody but Hillary, I'm voting Republican

Waaaahhhhhhhhhh!

And she's not even my first choice!

[cry baby]

46. Why are we talking about 08? WE NEED TO FOCUS ON 06.

This 08 stuff is a diversion. Will we even have a United States in 4 years? Will we even recognize our own country in 4 years? Keep your eye on the important matters that are happening now such as bills that are being passed without notice (like the bankruptcy bill), and the electronic voting machine matter. Don't fall for the 08 trap!!!

[Tactical Progressive]

51. I agree wholeheartedly on 2006

The voting machines are key. We have to do something to force them to have audit trails and to make sure the recount process is open and easy. There's going to have to be some mass movement starting soon, this summer at the latest, to rectify Republican electoral cheating. It is pervasive.

The reason people are looking at 2008 is because it's the big candidate race. It's alot harder to get people excited about a few Senators here and some Congresswomen there. But we have to.

[cry baby]

52. You're right TP, this headstsrong, brilliant group has got to get

excited about current events. When DU gets going in the same direction, it is a really strong voice. It just seems to get fractured with conversations about who will run in 08 just like it did in the primaries. I can say, however, that we came together (mostly) in the 04 election behind Kerry.

I'd love to see everyone here focusing on DeLay and his misguided ventures. He needs to go.

It won't matter who we put up in 06 or 08 if we don't get the paper trails and audits in our elections.

[Tactical Progressive]

47. How about, and I know this is RADICAL

1) We try to get our own preferences nominated.

2) Then we piss and moan when somebody else is nominated, as is inevitable for many.

3) Then we fight for our party.


Is that terribly irrational? I don't know. It was just a thought.

[Stirk]

48. Me neither. I won't vote for any more insider, pro-war Dems.

Period. If the Democrats lose, it'll be their own fault for continuing to ignore their constituencies in favor of Corporate America.

[Bluebear]

49. I take it you are independant, not DEM?

Which is fine, many people vote for the candidate. Assuming from your big "NOT" that you will vote for whoever runs against her. Jeb? DOCTOR Rice? Who's your pick for the Repub. candidate?

[Emboldened Chimp]

50. What are your reasons? nt

[Zinfandel]

53. No way will I vote for her! I sent her donations (I live in CA) mostly

because she has a "D" after her name and it pissed off the Republicans.

But Hillary is far too conservative for me. I wish she would just announce she's not running.

Is Rove controlling and pushing Hillary is Rove three moves ahead of the democratic again on this one?

Pushing Hillary means BIG donations for the next four years for the republicans!!!

[Tactical Progressive]

55. Bush is a moderate, govern-from-the-middle

uniter-not-divider, in the same way Hillary is conservative.

Why this need to be explained to Democrats, I don't know. Republicans understand it, and they're not that smart.

You know, if you take the two prevalent themes of people who don't like Hillary on these boards:

1) she's "polarizing" (bullshit)
2) she's too 'conservative' (uh-huh)

they're the exact opposite of each other. If she was 'conservative' then she wouldn't be "polarizing" to the Republicans. Either one of those two is wrong or they're both wrong.

In fact, they're both wrong. But I like that you think she's conservative. I wish we could get that meme, that she's a 'conservative democrat' into the mainstream. Unfortunately the corporate media won't play along with that. So we're left with the worst of both worlds when Dems are the only ones to mis-label political orientation.

[Zinfandel]

56. You'll be happy..I'm sure she'll run and, of course, lose.

Surely she knows that!!!! But, she'll sell her soul for the presidency.

[Tactical Progressive]

57. Yes, she is a soulless bitch

who only cares about power.

She'd sell her own daughter into white slavery just to get a leg up.

Just like Bill, if I remember correctly.

Where have I heard that before?

[LaPera]

68. Tell me what are her liberal policies?

When does she go against the flow and speak out against Bush?

[Tactical Progressive]

70. I've seen a few instances

but in general I'm with you on that: not often enough and nowhere near strongly enough.

I wish she'd get tougher on them, both for the issues, like say the upcoming bankruptcy bill, and because I think politically it would help her.

Dems have little power in Washington these days beyond filibustering, and she has even less if she wants to maintain a run for the Presidency.

But I know what kind of a President she would be, and that's a good one.

[walldude]

58. Hillary can't possibly win

And neither can Rice. While I respect you and alot of your posts Walt_Starr how can you possibly think that a black woman could win the repug nomination?

And Hillary just has too much baggage...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

60. I'm with you devilgrrl. Just another DLC pol selling herself.

She would, deservedly, be a nobody in real life.

[troubleinwinter]

62. Nice post without any information or reasoning.

Without giving any context. Just divisive. "end of story"? I think we can do a little better than that when we start a thread.

[errorbells]

67. re:"Nice post without any information or reasoning."

I agree with you. It has been awhile since I posted at DU.
This thread really caught my attention but I was not
going to post ...

Thanks for doing what I wouldn't.

and BTW
if this is just about HC in 2008 ...good grief..
don't we have a bit more time and more important stuff
besides who will run
...like will the vote be counted or not?

I am hoping for the republican party to get hacked this
time (if we don't make voting more secure)
...but that also remains to be seen..

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LiberallyInclined]

69. Same here...

But it's looking very much like it's already pre-determined that she is the one they'll be forcing down our collective throat.

[troubleinwinter]

71. WTF are you talking about??!!!