attacks against PRO-PEACE activists are VICIOUS this time around

[diamond14]

of course, some object to the PRO-PEACE activism, this weekend...and feel that their objections MUST be aired pre-emptively, prior to the events...


but this past week has seen very VICIOUS pre-emptive attacks on the Pro-Peace activists....for previous demonstrations, these attacks occurred only AFTER the demonstrations...attacks against a particular organization, and attacks against particular demonstration tactics, but always AFTER the event....


NOW, it's PRE-emptive attacks, BEFORE the events occur....seems designed to DISCOURAGE, rather that ENCOURAGE people from coming out to join their neighborhood events.....


here's a summary of the THREE major DU PRE-emptive threads, and I find it all VERY DISTURBING....these attacks are taking a LOT of time away from those who are real ACTIVISTS for Peace...yet the attacks MUST be answered, to prevent those who would join us, from staying home.....

SPECIAL THANKS to all DUers working this board to ENCOURAGE people to join us this weekend and STAND FOR PEACE...for those who are working this board to DISCOURAGE the activism this weekend: shame on you....

------------------------

the leading thread attacked the GOLD STAR MOTHERS for Peace...it was so vicious, that the GOLD STAR MOTHERS were forced away from their efforts for the March 19 protest...GOLD STAR MOTHERS spent their valuable time, sending off this letter...

-snip-

.... your views have the effect of INVALIDATING what I, my organization, Gold Star Families for Peace, and other peace groups are doing to bring our troops home immediately, if not sooner.

---------------------

a SECOND major attack followed quickly...

the BRAVE AMERICAN PATRIOTS who carried 1000 flag-draped coffins to OUR White House were attacked....they were called names, some said they DESERVED to by punished by bushites, others called them useless and stupid....


------------------------

it didn't take long for a THIRD major attack....

The Anti-WAR protesters traveling down to Ft. Bragg were said to be "making a big mistake" and doing lots of damage to the Pro-peace movement....of course, it was followed by many other remarks to discourage protestors from going to Ft. Bragg. This attack is nasty too, because these protesters are OUR Veterans and OUR Military Families. It takes a HUGE amount of COURAGE for this group to STAND UP against bush* WARS.

-------------------------------------

[UncleSepp]

1. Perspective, perspective

If you're take your political opinion to the street, you've got to be ready for anything. Tear gas, water cannon, rubber bullets, and that's just the police! You've got to be prepared for violence from the opposition, brawls, even riots. Even peace activists have to be prepared to meet violence with brave resistance.

This isn't violence, though. It's people posting their opinions, which they're entitled to have, on DU, which they're entitled to do. Calling an Internet post a major attack is going to leave you without a good word to use when street demonstrations turn into street battles. If that's an attack, what will you call it when a band of ProtestWarriors breaks into your demonstration and throws a sign in the street - Armageddon?

[diamond14]

3. these VERBAL attacks certainly discourage anyone from STANDING UP

for peace...your own description of PRO-Peace Activism is delusional...but as you point out...you have the RIGHT to DISCOURAGE all Pro-Peace activism....and I am certain that you feel no shame in doing so....


I STOOD UP in Washington DC...7 times...

in New York...3 times

in Chicago...2 times....



I have not seen people THROWING signs...all the Pro-Peace Demonstrations that I have worked on have been majorly PEACEFUL, including people of all religions, people of all races, people from many different religious groups....families, kids in stollers, babies in arms attend this Pro-Peace events...it's NOT like the World Trade Center protests...Saturday, we will stand on the grounds of the United States Capital in silence....you are DISCOURAGING people from attending....


New York City, March 20, 2004

Pregnant woman, baby cart, young teenagers....

[UncleSepp]

12. Only if you're afraid of a verbal attack

Come on, do you imagine Martin Luther King being afraid of someone making an internet post? Would Gandhi have been discouraged because someone said something nasty? Put on some mental armor. Let people who disagree with you put a fire in your belly to keep going and keep standing up for what you believe in. It's a fight for peace and a fight for justice, not demanding "I want peace and justice" and then having the government, The Man, the neighbors, saying "Oh. Okay, here you go."

This is tough business. Get tough!

[diamond14]

13. using DU boards to INSULT Pro-Peace activists served bush* well

I've never seen as many PRE-Emptive insults hurled at Pro-Peace activists, as for this weekend....


and sadly, you DEMAND from the luxury of your keyboard that WE THE PEACE MAKERS 'get tough'....guess it's hard for you to notice the irony of your statement....


you use your 'power of the pen' to DISCOURAGE everyone from standing up for peace...and obviously, you show little shame for your written DAGGERS, strategically place, and timely, just before March 19th...


My efforts here are to OUT those who will discourage our efforts, and put you to shame with MY PEN.....


I congratulate all DUers who STAND UP and ENCOURAGE the peacemakers, this weekend....and to those who are working furiously to DISCOURAGE the PRO-Peace efforts: SHAME ON YOU....

[AlienGirl]

15. And where do you think AuntJen was discouraging anybody?

Was it when she said, "Let people who disagree with you put a fire in your belly to keep going and keep standing up for what you believe in."? That sounds like an *encouragement* to me.

Are you really trying to accuse her of being some kind of propaganda operative? :eyes:

Tucker

[UncleSepp]

16. I AM a pro-peace activist

Edited to fix image links.

Would you please explain what you see as being ironic? Would you explain where I've discouraged anyone from coming out to demonstrate?

As for hiding behind a keyboard:



I took this photo at the counter-inaugural on the 20th, so I'm not in it. The banner's in my closet. The paint from having made it is still on my kitchen floor.

See the name tags? You can't read them in the photo, but we wore our name tags to connect the online person with the actual person. Also, the name tags were to honor the moving "My Name Is" thread, and the spirit of fearlessness expressed there. I didn't hide behind a keyboard when I gave a statement to the local Air America Radio affiliate.

Here's some pictures from another demonstration. Once again, I'm the one taking the picture. This one has a DU banner in it. That means there are other DUers, there with me and in the picture, who would be happy to explain to you that I am in no way, shape, or form, against peace activism!



Just so you can see who I am and see that I am not hiding behind anything, here's a touristy picture of the carload of people I went to that demonstration with:



See the bridge? That's in San Francisco. We hauled our butts and flags and signs from Seattle to San Francisco and back in two days because we thought it was important to get out in the streets and march for peace. I'm the one with the cane.

[diamond14]

17. where's the "tear gas,water cannons,rubber bullets" that you wrote about?

I don't see anything even remotely like that in those photos....your PHOTOS prove beyond a doubt that you wrote about an ILLUSION of violence....totally fabricated stuff....big ILLUSIONS, designed to DISCOURAGE people who might join the events....your bubble is BURST by your own photos !!! perhaps you bragged about your HEROIC street protest forever to the whole wide world....TEAR GAS, WATER CANNONS, RUBBER BULLETS ! aaaaahhhhhhh...the HORROR.....



------------------------

as you so discouraging wrote on your first post:

from AuntJen
"If you're take your political opinion to the street, you've got to be ready for anything. Tear gas, water cannon, rubber bullets, and that's just the police! You've got to be prepared for violence from the opposition, brawls, even riots. Even peace activists have to be prepared to meet violence with brave resistance."

----------------------------



RIOTS...VIOLENCE IN THE STREETS...TEAR GAS, RUBBER BULLETS, WATER CANNONS....BRAWLS....RIOTS....VIOLENCE....look look PROOF shown here...this photo from AuntJen PROVES it....my gawwwddd, the VIOLENCE is frightening...horrifying...

[AlienGirl]

19. What part of "context" do you not understand?

You posted about how upset you are that people are trying to "discourage" protests by posting things on Internet forums.

AuntJen responded by saying, "Don't let words discourage you; in fact, be prepared for possible physical danger before all this is done." In other words, she is telling people not to give up, even if it gets rough at some point!

And you reply by insulting her and implying she is hiding behind a keyboard, and suggesting she's a propagandist. :eyes: When she posts pictures to show that she is neither a * operative nor a coward, you continue your mindless assault on her, completely forgetting the fact that YOU ARE ON THE SAME SIDE. Are you so ego-driven that you feel you *must* crush her now that your aggression-circuits are turned on?

Tucker

[diamond14]

20. there's no need to SCARE THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS out of everyone

just before a MAJOR nation-wide and world-wide event....

many people have NEVER been to a protest, and are not as SEASONED as you and your group are....


but, when you imply that anyone who goes out to protest is going to get be attacked with "Tear gas, water cannon, rubber bullets" and be in the middle of RIOTS and BRAWLS.....that's very DISCOURAGING for most people, and they'll stay home....


Your own PHOTOs prove that your violent description is NOT TRUE.....and it would be much better to just TELL THE TRUTH about the protests that you went to:

Your photos of the protests appear to be very peaceful...neighbors talking to neighbors about politics, meeting new friends, talking, eating...more like a FESTIVAL event....there's not even a single cop in your photos......yes, please write about your experience BUT TRUTHFULLY, and not embellished with ILLUSIONS of violence....


others, who might attend a protest this weekend, should not be DISCOURAGED by your "illusions" of violence....if the truth comes out, many other people will have the experience that you obviously did....a nice neighborhood FESTIVAL, that they can bring their kids to, and their babies in strollers, and buy Starbucks coffee and discuss politics in a PEACEFUL friendly atmosphere....


Your photos show what most protests actually look like...PEACEFUL gatherings of American Citizens who care about their neighbors and our country...telling the TRUTH about this would ENCOURAGE others to come on March 19th...

[UncleSepp]

22. I don't think you understand

If a person is dis-couraged from expressing his opinion in the streets because a dissenting opinion is expressed on an Internet forum, he has been keeping too loose a grip on his courage.

If the fact that sometimes violence happens at demonstrations scares the living daylights out of anyone, then that person will have to choose whether to accept the risk which frightens him or to reject the risk and stay home. It's a dangerous business, going out one's front door.

Now as for your posts...

You appear to be reading things into what I wrote that were neither implied nor intended.

when you imply that anyone who goes out to protest is going to get be attacked with "Tear gas, water cannon, rubber bullets" and be in the middle of RIOTS and BRAWLS.....that's very DISCOURAGING for most people, and they'll stay home....

I never implied that. I said it does happen, and it does happen. That's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of historical fact. There's a nice picture here of demonstrators being teargassed:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6842927/

Here's how you're misunderstanding me. This is what I wrote:

If you're take your political opinion to the street, you've got to be ready for anything. Tear gas, water cannon, rubber bullets, and that's just the police! You've got to be prepared for violence from the opposition, brawls, even riots. Even peace activists have to be prepared to meet violence with brave resistance.

The active phrase I used was "You've got to be prepared for violence". You interpreted that as "anyone who goes out to protest is going to get be attacked". Those are not equivalent statements. Compare, for example these two statements:

"If you're going to live in Florida, you've got to be prepared for a hurricane."

and

"Anyone who lives in Florida is going to be hit by a hurricane."

Do you see the difference in those two statements? Hurricanes do hit Florida, and some people will be hit by a hurricane if they live in Florida. Acknowledging that people who live in Florida sometimes get hit by hurricanes is not the same thing as attempting to discourage people from settling in Florida. It's a nice place to be. However, being prepared for hurricanes is a good idea. Enjoy the sun, hope for the best, but keep candles on hand all the same.

To further the analogy, becoming outraged because someone has posted some words to a BBS would be like burning your emergency candles every time it rains. It rains a lot in Florida, but very seldom is that rain a dangerous storm. It's usually just rain, and it's best to just let it roll off your back.

So the point is, let the nasty posts and verbal disagreement roll off your back and wash away. Much worse things happen in the course of the struggle for peace and justice than nasty posts being made on the Web. Get some perspective, and stop sweating the small stuff.

Now here are the stories that go with the pictures:

At the Seattle demonstration, things were mostly peaceful. There were some annoying folks who ran through the assembled crowd being insulting, but nothing serious. There was an enormous police presence, of course, as there was in San Francisco. I did not post pictures of them, but that does not mean the police were not there. I do have a picture of the helicopter that remained overhead all day, as well as rows of police in riot gear and of the mounted police. Do I need to show them to you, or will you take it on my word that the police were there?

The police were there for good reason. In San Francisco, it was the police presence which kept the demonstration from becoming dangerous. A small group of ProtestWarriors entered the march carrying a large Israeli flag and attempted to start a confrontation with demonstrators carrying Palestinian flags. The police surrounded the confrontation, separated the counterdemonstrators from the demonstrators, and the march continued without further incident.

In other demonstrations on the 20th, particularly New York and Washington DC, there were arrests. There was violence, some from law enforcement, some from demonstrators, some from counterdemonstrators. That really does happen sometimes, but it should not keep anyone who has conviction in his or her ideals from demonstrating anyway.

[AlienGirl]

18. That carload of people went from Seattle to SF for the demonstration

Not only not hiding, but actually going to great lengths to get onto the streets at the right time.

Tucker

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. The poster did not say the anti-demonstration postings were

violent -- just that they are vicious, and they discourage participation. Just as your post suggests that protesters are going to be met with "Tear gas, water cannon, rubber bullets, and that's just the police! You've got to be prepared for violence from the opposition, brawls, even riots."

I can see that you are doing to best to get out the protests.

[UncleSepp]

14. I assume that's sarcasm?

I'd like to know what assumptions you made. It could be quite illuminating.

That was from January's demonstrations, but it should give you some kind of idea. No, it wasn't large scale organization, just small scale stuff. It was a start.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=184&topic_id=3036

This time, it isn't my turn.

I get out there myself, I do what I can to get other people out, and you know what's more? I talk to the counterdemonstrators. I talk to the opposition, face to face, in the street. Not shout. Talk, in person, with nothing and no one in between. I am not discouraged by someone's opposition to my opinion or their disagreement with my tactics or my presence, no matter how "vicious" it may be. I do not expect to be agreed with, nor do I expect people to be polite, nice, and nonviolent in word or deed in voicing their opposition to peace and tolerance.

There have been, are, and will be people who knowingly risk being firehosed, teargassed, beaten, arrested, or killed for publicly demonstrating their political convictions. The more oppressive the culture becomes, the greater the risk will be. This road to peace and justice is very long, and it will get steeper and narrower and much rougher before we get where we're going. It seems to me that a person who would be discouraged from attending a demonstration because someone said something on a message board might not yet have the fortitude to continue to demonstrate when the going gets rough.

[aquart]

2. Stop reading Michelle Malkin.

You'll feel better.

[diamond14]

4. who is michelle malkin....someone that YOU read?

I'm not familiar with this person's writing....and someone else's writings are NOT the subject of this thread.....or are you just interested in CHANGING THE SUBJECT?


All opinions expressed on my posts are MY OWN....


I actually feel GOOD right now.....I am working on several chat boards to ENCOURAGE people to join us on March 19th.....

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

5. if you think there's no potential for violence

from AntiPeaceniks or the Police you're as delusional as bush*.

Hope the best, prepare for the worst.

[diamond14]

6. we work VERY HARD to keep it PEACEFUL....here's some of OUR efforts

and this is all done by people like me, regular citizens VOLUNTEERING our time...

- trained coordinators, with donated cell phones, located throughout the event (many people)...these VOLUNTEERS have been trained over several weekends to defuse any 'potential' chance for violence...

- Clergy and Religious Leaders are encouraged to come in their "official religious garments" to defuse violence and encourage PEACE...


- Volunteer attorneys make certain that PERMITs are carefully put together to avoid violence and work closely with the police to ensure their cooperation....


-Volunteer Lawyers waiting for OUR calls to prevent any abuse of Pro-Peace demonstrators and assure us of our right to free speech...





The PRO-Peace activism is VERY DIFFERENT from the photos you saw of the World Trade PROTESTS in Seattle, Florida and DC....

This weekend, it is PRO-PEACE Activists....don't confuse these events with the macing, clubbing, and property destruction that goes on during World Trade protests....Main Stream Media has tried to confuse YOU....




New York City, March 20, 2004...our 'coordinators' got these fences REMOVED almost as soon as erected....there are SENIORS, Veterans, children in this crowd...it is PEACEFUL....

[ArkDem]

7. Peas in out thyme!

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. And all this time I thougt it was

Peas in art time!

[bloom]

10. I agree that it is not progressive to be insulting protesters....

People who are out there trying to bring attention to all of the injustices that we rant about on a daily basis.

[SOS]

11. "Voice or no voice,

the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

--Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

[KoKo]

21. Thanks for this post. It's annoying to see these "planted" articles

warning folks about engaging in Pro-Peace Activities. I get discouraged that we don't get proper coverage of the issues in the media, and it's hard when we don't get support here.

There are always the folks who find a bone to pick with anything peace protestors are doing but we have to keep doing it because it's the "principle" that a President Lied us into an illegal invasion of a sovereign country and our Congress was complicit in it. The Main Stream Media lied and has allowed the lies to be perpetuated.

The Peace Protestors are all we have standing for truth. :toast: