PEER PRESSURE MYTH: fates worse than POT (a little rant)

[nashville_brook]

Smoking pot isn't the worst thing your kid could be doing. I'm not saying it's the best, but if I were to go back to MY teenage years, I wouldn't spend another minute in algebra class. I'd be smoking pot on the beach with my head against an FM radio -- or I'd be out at the Barrel Factor on a cold, clear night smoking from a DugOut, and burning fires.

Smoking pot didn't ruin my life, either. It didn't lead to "other things" nor to a life of sloth. Isn't it weird that pot should be avoided because it leads to *other things*? By that logic orange juice is bad because you COULD add a bottle of vodka to it which would lead eventually alcoholism or marrying a frat guy.

If it would freak you out if your kid smokes pot -- they already KNOW it. They aren't going to tell you about it. At the very least it would trigger "restriction" for a week. At the worst, it's going to be a fight and feelings are going to be hurt. But you are going to "win," right? You're a good parent, after all.

Lets say you are successful in using *parental pressure* to keep your kids "off drugs." What are you really doing? Teaching them to be subservient to another's will? Is that how you want them to relate to the world for the rest of their lives? Republicans love it when kids stay off the POT and become good little Eagle Scouts. Why do you think they spend so much of your tax money on their phony drug wars and those godawful "no, Tyler, you're not going to the party" commercials. Tyler is such a dumbass. Who the hell asks permission from their Dad to go to a house party. Republicans LOVE kids like Tyler. "Back on the Church Bus -- no house party for you." If you're lucky someone will have sneaked porn into the lock-in. Tell them they are morally-superior little pukes for eschewing sex and drugs (rock and roll okay, but only Creed).

If those were my kids I'd hate them. I wouldn't want to live with them. I think it is possible to hate your kids and those are kids I can imagine hating -- smarmy little shits. That's why boarding school was invented.

You have to get a clue with this -- drugs are a part of The World and you should be GLAD if your kid is smoking pot and avoiding jock-DRINKERS where she'll get pregnant (or marry a frat guy).

If you've got a 14-year old, this is your last shot at building a relationship with her. She'll have her own family in a FEW SHORT YEARS. Do you want her preparation for adult life to be a 4-year lesson in living under suspicion of transgression? Don't force her into crafting her identity in retaliation. That's when Goth happens. Don't train her to serve you will, that's when Republicans happen. These are fates way worse than pot.

[Wilms]

1. Nice quote.

"Don't force her into crafting her identity in retaliation. That's when Goth happens."

[Ariana Celeste]

11. It's true, too!

That's exactly what I did. Funny thing is, after about a year of it, my mom became pretty loosened up, and started to LOVE buying me Goth clothes! I don't dress that way much anymore, and she still sends me the occasional cute goth shirt or some pretty piece of jewelry~ and I love her for it! She got interested in me when I became different from everyone, and that's one of my favorite things about her. :).

[XuChi]

2. worse fate

Would be if i caught my kid skipping class and smoking dope.

[cynatnite]

3. Trust Trust Trust

Thankfully, drugs are about the last things I have to worry about with my kids. The oldest one did a little drinking, but never overly cared for the taste.

The middle one, 14, widens her eyes at the concept. She thinks drugs are the stupidest thing a person can do to their body. As she says, she wants a clear head.

Hubby and I have made our feelings clear on this, but it's not anything we've spent a great deal of time on. I like to think they follow our examples. We don't do drugs (I did a little in high school) and drink very little.

I let my oldest one go to a house party when she was in high school, but I knew enough that I felt safe in letting her go.

Maybe we're just different in this regard, but hubby and I have worked hard in keeping the lines of communication open. I don't expect my kids to tell me everything. A little unreasonable, I think. I don't search my kids' rooms looking for contraband or read their diaries. Some things are just private and my kids are entitled to privacy.

I wouldn't be glad any of my kids are smoking pot. No way. Why should I? If one of them did, they'd get grounded. We've got rules and an anything goes attitude just doesn't work well in our house.

It's about trust. It's up to the parents and kids to work together for it.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. Fully agreed.

I think drinking is a lot worse than kids smoking a little ganja every now and again.

Of course, if you teach your kids to think for themselves, there's a strong chance they can be normal, cool, and somehow still not do drugs. It IS possible, but it doesn't happen by either coddling or scolding your kids to death.

[jedicord]

5. Ironically, I was big into the youth church group as a teenager.

When I became a state officer, the initiation ritual was a late night drinking game.

The one field trip I missed because my parents thought I'd gone to too many (get a clue, ma and dad, I wanted out of the house!) was when all my friends got caught drunk as skunks. What a scandal!

This group didn't smoke pot, that came with college and opened eyes. I agree with you to a point, although some of your writing sounds a bit as if I should encourage my son to smoke pot. Marijuana is illegal, and I don't want my son arrested.

What I will do is encourage him to help me get it legalized!!!

P.S. I am now a Deist.

[Ravenseye]

6. My daughter can smoke pot but not skip class

If a person can't manage their commitments while sharing their life with a drug, then they have a problem.

If my daughter were to skip algebra class to smoke pot I'd flay her alive. If when she's 16 and we're sitting on the back porch looking at the trees feeling an nice cool breeze and she wants to take a hit, then I have no problem with it.

It's about taking responsibility for yourself. You might not like algebra when you're 14 years old but if you skip it then you're eliminating alot of possible career choices from your future, and most people don't know what they want to be when they're 14.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Far better for them to be playing with assault weapons in the woods

torturing small animals, crusing town in a rusty pickup looking for gays to bash, and frequenting white supremacist websites--- to be sure.

[H2O Man]

8. There are limits to what

parents can do. If you have a good relationship with your kids, you can discuss your values. But your values will not be your children's values, at least not until they are your present age.

You can also talk about risk factors. Lots of people with addiction issues in the family? That is an increased risk factor. There are others worth discussing, such as not riding with an intoxicated driver. Or driving intoxicated.

I think it's good to discuss issues like partying openly. There are related issues, such as sex. Kids who party need to be aware of social diseases, self-respect, respecting others, and being aware of where they are in terms of other risk factors.

There are people who shouldn't drink at all. And there are people who simply should not smoke pot. Other people might be able to with no serious ill effects, but nothing is black and white as far as alcohol or pot go.

[ultraist]

38. EXCELLENT point: risk factors

I've discussed those with my kids. Pot does cloud judgment (driving safety as well as all behaviors), it is illegal (why risk going to jail as a kid?) and it is damaging to the body. Furthermore, MUCH of today's pot is laced with wicked chemicals and pesticides.

It IS a mood altering drug and has adverse effects on the developing mind and body. WHY do it? Is there any good reason that outweighs the risks and damage?

And as you pointed out, anyone who has a genetic propensity towards addiction, needs to be particularly cautious.

There are more natural and healthy ways to cop a high. Smoking pot is a superficial high. If adults choose to do so, fine. I wouldn't recommend that ANY kids do it. They can wait to try it.

I've told my kids, they are not missing much. Being stoned and having the munchies is not what it's cracked up to be. Better to focus on more productive things and not get diverted.

[CrispyQ]

9. Just remember to put a lock on the fridge!!

"A life spent searching for the perfect hashish brownie is a life well spent." ~~Zonker Harris

[Trillo]

10. The Cycle of Command and Control.

It's similar to the Cycle of Violence. Perhaps the cycle of command and control could be more simply called the Cycle of Control.

Forcing behavior, i.e. command and control, is endemic in our society. Freedom is a concept long gone from most people's reality. When parents are confronted with government sponsored PR hype, such as the loads anti-drug literature pumped out regularly, when these same parents work in jobs where they must obey orders or be fired, when they're confronted with bills they 'must' pay, when they had parents themselves who used force and control methods of behavior modification, then isn't their mindset more likely to be one of 'command and control' than cooperation in dealing with their kids?

How many of the multitudes of parents will react to such PR propaganda by encouraging open and non-freedom-threatening discussion with their kids? How many parents will be creative in finding ways to positively reinforce their children's good behavior?

Sure, the good parents will do just that. But what of the quiet masses of parents who will simply do with their kids what is and was done to them?

The cycle of command and control continues its wicked spiral.

[Ariana Celeste]

13. My mum did that~

Until I hit about 16, then she became pretty liberal. It took a lot of fighting and counseling and time for her to figure out her methods weren't working. I can't blame her though, my birth father died before I was born and she was forced to be a single mom (with a couple of marraiges) raising me mainly on her own. She was young and didn't know what to do- but she is a great mother, and even better the last couple years before I became an adult. Now she is my best friend.

[Trillo]

18. I'm glad you worked it out with her, it's touching to read.

Unfortunately, many former kids never do reach any after-the-fact understanding with their parents. Consider yourself lucky and love-blessed.

[Ariana Celeste]

22. I do, I really do.

I think that it is rarely too late for people to work things out.
It takes two to be willing.
It takes one to admit the wrongs, and the other to understand.
And then, it takes two to work on making things better.

It was something we were both very willing to do. And by doing that, I made things a lot better for my little brother, who had also become a rebellious teen.

I do consider myself very lucky. I could never ask for a btter mom, and friend.

[cynatnite]

14. What about teaching personal responsibility?

I find many of your comments so general and painting such a wide brush that even me expecting my kid to clean up her room is your way of seeing it as cycle of command and control.

[Trillo]

16. My comments were directed at how the cycle of command and

control works its way, over time, throughout the hierarchical command structure of our society. It's simply a mindset that repeats itself in a sick loop from generation-to-generation, and parents are included in the cycle. Those who rise to the top of our political system are specifically included, and I believe include many who today routinely issue control-based edicts towards the people and also the whole world.

As to specific instances of how to get your child to clean her room without using command and control is curious. Do you feel that you're not smart enough to creatively figure out ways to make her/him cleaning her/his room rewarding? Don't you have enough time to elicit cooperation with your child? How does success with a cooperation based method that achieves the same objective of 'cleaning the room' translate to 'not teaching responsibility?' (implied by your title)

I'm certain that to some degree, each specific instance may need some flexibility with regard to cooperative methodology. Perhaps you need a little more personal time and space to distance yourself from the perceived problem, and through this distancing, there is the hope that a light-bulb might just appear in your mind with regards to your specific issue. As you've briefly presented it, the problem appears to be: how to I get my child to cooperate in cleaning her/his room without resorting to command-based edict?

I'm also certain that there are experts out there that will help you, as well as there being resources written by experts available at no or for next to no charge, on how to cooperate instead of command. But beware, there are also many 'command and control' experts out there that will fool you into thinking their method is the only way that works. They do seem more abundant in our society today.

[cynatnite]

19. Thanks for explaining

First off, when it comes to my kid cleaning her room, it's not rocket science. She's 14. She learned a long time ago that one of her responsibilities is to clean her room. She also has to do her homework, has a curfew and other rules that a child of ours follows living in our home.

Maybe I'm not understanding what falls under 'command and control'. That sounds more like the military than our house.

In your earlier post you mentioned paying bills as an example and I'm trying to figure out how that falls under command and control. It seems to me that we have a responsibility to pay our bills.

This is common sense type of stuff.

I think what I'm getting at here is that it's a combination of things. We keep the lines of communication open and there is trust which is a major part of our relationship with her. There are also rules that will be followed.

We don't run a boot camp here. LOL

[lectrobyte]

12. Cool. Exactly. Sad to say, the pot-heads I grew up with are now

successful well-educated well-adjusted people, and the narrow ones, as we used to call them, are not. And by successful, I don't mean money, necessarily...

Johnson City TN is cool, too, would be there now if I could.

[nashville_brook]

23. this little piece of wisdom is actually culled from comparing attitudes in

cocoa beach florida with johnson city, tn -- command and control totally fits the uber-militaristic culture in florida.

johnson city was more like mayberry. kids were allowed to grow up without razor wire.

[Ariana Celeste]

15. I completely agree~

That is how I want to be when I become a mother. My SO and I have talked about it a lot, and that's how he wants to be as well.
We were both outcasts, out of the mainstream, intellectual, and mature while we were kids. Very few friends, and whatnot. Had very controlled childhoods, and for the most part we were both very sheltered. Due to that, we both have very bad social skills. I mean, we get along great with people, but we are very scared of new people. It is a very stressful experience to meet someone new.
And besides~ we both know that pot is a very safe drug, and hate the propaganda that is all over tv and in schools. We don't want schools to teach our future kid about the subject, we want to be honest and open and always keep the line of communication open.
Hopefully, we will stay true to that.

[nashville_brook]

24. my hope for my future kids is that they have well developed

bullshit detectors.

thank god for POT. i LOVE pot!

feels so subversive saying that, too. we live in such a puritanical culture. POT! christ! you have to SMOKE that! don't you know what smoking does to your health!

I want to be a fat little pot smoking granny wearing a red calico apron and baking bread all day. i'll hang out in my garden shed with my herbs and flowers and have a gentleman suitor with a really big bong!

[Ariana Celeste]

28. LOL

That sounds like a retirement one could look forward to!

[ArkDem]

17. How do you burn fire?

[nashville_brook]

35. i started to say burning tires -- rough edit.

didn't want to get into an environmental discussion. actually didn't want to remember THAT part, at all. nasty! dumb kids!

[sendero]

20. Well said..

... parents have to choose priorities. Is it your priority that your kids do everything just as you'd like, or is it your priority to have their respect such that they listen to you and make good choices?

It's really not easy to have both.

I hate the pot issue because I'm not willing to lie about it. But I am willing to say that just because I did something doesn't mean it is a good idea.

But the main thing I want to do is keep my kids from ever mixing alcohol or pot with automobiles. If I can accomplish that, I'll be satisfied.

[nashville_brook]

26. that's what my therapist keeps saying...

:)

amen about cars and alcohol. cars in general. sheesh. it takes a long time to be a good driver. they'll let anyone get a lisence.

[Radical Activist]

21. Hey! I was a good Eagle Scout

and I still ended up smoking pot. lol

[nashville_brook]

25. all the best potheads were great outdoorsmen

there is life after scouting. i was an over-acheiving Junior Girl Scout until i started smoking pot.

[Radical Activist]

30. Tennessee huh?

Are you going to bonnaroo? I'll be going for the first time this year.

[nashville_brook]

34. i'm too damn old and cranky to do big music festivals anymore

it's so sad! i've got some diehard friend who still go. i admire their stamia. i barely have the enthusiasm to see bands at all anymore -- that's what the music business will do to you! show me to a pint of guiness and cool patio to sit on and i'm a happy camper :) i DO miss the tripping tho... damn...

[libertypirate]

29. Same here!!! Ha!

Eagle Scout & Pot head...

Also no one has ever died from smoking it!

[Radical Activist]

31. But people have died in camping accidents.

There's a lesson there somewhere.

[nashville_brook]

33. "hey man, watch this..."

the old redneck joke...

[mainer]

27. I have a good doctor friend who "smoked pot every day" in college

And he's brilliant, successful, a musician, and the nicest guy you'd want to meet. Doesn't smoke it now, but it sure didn't hurt his career.

Far better to smoke pot and get calm than to get roaring drunk night after night, as so many other college kids do.

[Goldmund]

32. Excellent post!

[nashville_brook]

36. one of the biggest problems with "today's movement"

lack of drugs. yoga's fun and everything -- it's just not the same as a head full of psilocybin.

[Arkana]

37. Personally, when I do become a father, I don't ever want to give my kids

any reason to do drugs...

I hope that I'm able to raise them so that they don't cave to things like peer pressure. I know that I never did, but my parents never told me I couldn't go places or do things. My mother and father found the perfect balance between not caring enough and being oppressive--it was good to grow up with them.

[nashville_brook]

39. drugs you take because of things your parents did to you: paxil, zoloft

drugs you take b/c you like them: pot, beer

[Arkana]

40. What are you talking about?

[jonnyblitz]

41. that's when Goth happens?

you say that like goth is automatically a bad thing. interesting assumption but wrong and narrowminded. you lost me after that comment.its amazing how judgmental people can be even on a progressive board. sad.

[nashville_brook]

42. as bob dobbs is fond of saying...

if you can't take a joke...

amazing how little humor progressives have. sad.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. This planet could use more potheads-- and fewer religious kooks

potheads don't generally blow themselves up, fly planes into buildings, issue fatwahs, firebomb abortion clinics or beat the crap out of gays.

If we were going purely on what has killed the most people throughout human history, religion would have to be considered the most dangerous, deadly drug of them all.

[nashville_brook]

44. amen, i mean -- yeah, man

[nemo137]

45. Speaking as a high school senior

most people in my school who smoke pot are either rich white assholes or or burnouts with limited futures. It's not even a matter of "they try it and it leads to harder things." They try it, they do it, and they become assholes. Some people try it and don't like it, and meh, that's fine, but my personal experience at least warns me away from it.

Also, the pot vs. drinking dichotomy you set up is absoultely false. At least in this midwestern shithole, were you find one, you usually find another. Just because you're daughter smokes a bowl of pot at a party rather thank taking a shotof vodka does not ensure that she'll be away from jock drinkers, nor does it ensure that she won't do anything stupid. Speaking as an 18-year old, we're a stupid bunch.

FWIW, I'm a bit bitter tonight. I went to a sketchy party tonight with smoking and drinking, and was reminded again that 1.) I hate drunk people. Even with a vodka or two in me to take the edge off, I hate drunk people and 2.) I am so fucking ready to graduate. The above post should be read in terms of that.

[ConsAreLiars]

46. Demonizing pot has also led to an increase in the use of inhalants

(see http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050317130409990023 )
which are deadly brain damaging poisons. We always tried to warn them against the more deadly addictions and discourage them from the lesser incapacitants, but like me, the made their own decisions. Happily, they both avoided the seriously addictive and toxic options - although both kids did pot and acid and peyote in High School. Both are living fulfilling lives, one doing dances with shopping carts at a Whole Foods store while pursuing a true vocation in herbal healing with a couple years of college level study behind him, and the other is in grad school on a full fellowship at UC-Berkeley.

I'm glad we helped them understand the difference between pot and crack or heroin, and I am convinced that if we had believed/taught that all drugs were equally toxic they would have been more likely to believe that we were lying about everything or that there was no important difference between meth and pot.

[HamstersFromHell]

47. It comes down to trust, in more ways than one.

I did my share of drugs in my younger days. My mom woulda freaked (the quintessential worrier, she was), but my dad "knew" what I did...not that I ever told him. He kept what he "knew" from mom just to keep the fireworks from flying, and acted very cool toward me about everything.

I think the one thing he said to me that explained it all was: "I know you've got a head on your shoulders, and I trust you to not get yourself into anything you can't get yourself out of." I appreciated that, considering some of my friend's families and their tyrany of oppression methods of trying to raise their kids.

I smoked a ton of pot, did a little coke, a lot of acid, but I stayed away from what I figured could really hurt me. I had a friend who tried heroin once and she told me "I knew I could never do it again...I liked it way too much." Her observations were good enough for me to never try it.

I kinda went through life not so much learning by doing, but learning by observing and knowing Murphy was out there somewhere. If my friends did something and it was a bad thing or didn't work well, why should I try to think I can beat their odds by trying myself? Saved me a lotta grief over the years, yet at the same time I don't think I lived anywhere near a dull life.