What are your conservative viewpoints?

[hollywood926]

On the political continuum, very few people are on either extreme end. Most of us are somewhere in the middle. Most of us on this board are probably somewhere left of center.

But on what issues are you planted on or near the conservative side?

MINE - I am not against the death penalty, although I think it should be handed out more rarely.

If you eat meat, that's certainly conservative. Against gay marriage? Hate Bill Clinton?

What? :-)

[indianablue]

1. illegal immigration.

illegal immigration.
illegal immigration.
illegal immigration.
illegal immigration.

[kiki]

12. Don't know about the US, but...

...a survey in the UK recently found that on average people thought the number of illegal immigrants living in the country was around 22%.

The actual figure is 1.2%.

Look into it, is all I'm saying.

[hollywood926]

27. Really?

That's an interesting statistic.

I'd have to say I would have guessed that 22% as well - at least here in L.A.

[kiki]

36. Like I said, look into it.

The immigration issue has got to be one of the prime sources of bullshit from politicians and media looking for a knee-jerk reaction. I don't blame anyone who thinks the figure is much higher than is actually the case.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

88. Thank you!

To me while illegal immigration is not necessarily a good thing for EITHER party, it is not the HUGE problem people make it to be.

[ProfessorGAC]

210. Illegal Is Illegal

I'm all for having a system that allows people to get here and be productive members of our culture. That's how my family got here, for goodness sake.

But, if it's against the law, it's against the law. Do it right and i'll welcome all with open arms. Break the law, and i won't support it.
The Professor

[solinvictus]

71. Me too...

Illegal immigrants should not have access to jobs, government assistance, or education. They should be deported, period.

[AzDar]

115. I agree...Here in Az it is depleting our state resources at a horrifying

rate... Law enforcement, health care, school overcrowding,at a most inconvenient time...you know, when the states are already having to take it up the hoo-ha from the Feds to make up for Little Boot's tax
giveaways.

[bread_and_roses]

174. Off topic...I love "little boot"...too perfect

...you've reminded me it's been a while since I read the "Claudius" books.

[otohara]

124. But What Would Republican WALMART Do With Out Illegals?

to clean their bathrooms and ugly ass stores.. and all those other puke corporations who use and abuse illegals?

[Pushed To The Left]

179. Actually, that's becoming a progressive

position these days. The corporate conservatives like illegal immigration due to the cheap labor it provides. Both tighter-border and open-border people have a legitimate beef with cheap labor conservatives. It's time for both sides to realize they have the same right-wing enemy!

[ohio_liberal]

2. I think the steel industry

should be saved

[trotsky]

3. I don't think meat-eating is necessarily conservative.

From my observations, dietary choices are pretty independent of political leanings. I've known vegan Republicans and meat-loving liberals.

[hollywood926]

38. Right, I do agree with you...

I just meant it is a conservative idea - although it really has nothing to do with politics, as a rule.

[trotsky]

39. I disagree with it being a "conservative idea," too.

One can be progressive about their meat eating, you know. Selecting farm-raised, free-range, non-antibiotic meats that have been humanely slaughtered, for starters.

[OnionPatch]

207. We eat only grass-fed beef & free-range, organic chicken......

I have the feeling that's pretty liberal. :)

[kiki]

4. Eating meat is not conservative.

Comparing eating meat to opposing gay marriage is pretty ridiculous.

Human beings are naturally omnivorous. Although I suppose you could argue that human beings are naturally bigoted too...

[hollywood926]

26. Of course it is.

I didn't say it was the same as opposing gay marriage. I said it was conservative. Of course it is. The progressive viewpoint on eating meat is that killing animals for food has become unnecessary and detrimental. Every nutrient we need to maintain health is found growing on trees or in the ground. What separates us from other animals is that we can reason these things out.

A conservative argues that they do things because "they have always been done that way" and "because it's human nature" - the same argument you just presented for eating meat.

If you think killing animals for food is acceptable, that's OK. It's not illegal. But's it's conservative.

[trotsky]

37. Expect some flames.

If you had just said it's your *opinion* that it's conservative, that'd probably be OK. But you are wielding the label as a weapon, trying to bash meat-eating Democrats and liberals. I don't think that's fair.

[hollywood926]

41. No No No No! Let me pour water all over me before I get flamed!

I didn't mean it that way at all. I've tried to clarify it in a couple of other posts. It IS a conservative idea - eating meat because it's "natural" - it's the same mindset used by the RW regarding gays. The man's part clearly fits into the woman's part, so obviously that is natural and homosexual is unnatural and thus wrong.

I hope I am being more clear. I am not saying I think eating meat is wrong. I have eaten meat for 37 years and have only recently thought about whether I think it's wrong or right.

[kiki]

40. I don't agree...

...and I don't think it's for you to define what "progressive" means.

And it's not only conservatives who argue on the basis of things being "natural" or time-honoured. I don't see many progressives clamouring for the aboriginals of Australia or the native Americans to update their technology and get rid of their silly old customs.

[hollywood926]

45. Well, OK then...

being anti-gay is progressive. :eyes:

It's not for ME to decide? I didn't make the definitions.

As they say, "a head of cabbage is a conservative." Why do they say that? Because all a person has to do to be a conservative is accept things the way they are. "I have always eaten meat. My mommy ate meat. My daddy ate meat. My pappaw ate meat. Therefore, eating meat is what I should do."

Progressive - PROGRESS - move forward. "Hmmm. I was raised eating meat. But animal fat clogs arteries and most farm animals are treated inhumanely and our Creator gave us the gift of every nutrient we need coming from tree branches and growing from the ground. Maybe I should move forward."

So you decide which one "killing animals for food" falls under. It's not for me to decide. :-)

[kiki]

133. Please.

You don't need to tell me you didn't make the definitions - but (as another poster stated) you are clearly stating your personal definition of progressive as if it were the gospel truth. If you want to talk about the dictionary, Oxford has "favouring social reform; favouring change and innovation". Nothing in there that forbids eating meat as far as I can see.

I think one can be a progressive without having to take the most "left-wing" (and that's open to interpretation) option possible in every single aspect of one's life. It seems to me that, by your definition, the ideal future for progressives would be for us all to live forever, perhaps as brains in jars, having long progressed from those unpleasant monkey bodies that caused us so much trouble. And yes, being progressive involves innovation and making the world a better functioning place. But to me, being progressive is also about clearing out old, unhealthy ideas such as fear of our bodies, and fear of death. These are ideas that the fundies trade in, and they're well gotten rid of. To me, part of being progressive is knowing how to relax.

Look into the Slow Food movement in Italy - they encourage the eating of good-quality meat as much as any other food of good quality, and I think most of their members would be quite offended if you were to say that they weren't progressive.

[Guaranteed]

52. Meat is an important part of a person's diet.

Protein. If you don't eat meat, there are only a couple of other places you can get it. That's not good.

[hollywood926]

67. If that's what makes you feel better...

but in reality there are a thousand other sources of protein that are much healthier than meat. These are some with high amounts of protein and I am leaving out the hundreds of soy products.

LEGUMES
Garbanzo beans
Kidney beans
Lentils
Lima beans
Navy beans
Soybeans
Split peas 21%

GRAINS
Barley
Brown rice Buckwheat
Millet
Oatmeal
Rye
Wheat germ
Wheat, hard red
Wild rice

VEGETABLES
Artichokes
Beets
Broccoli
Brussels sprouts Cabbage
Cauliflower Cucumbers
Eggplant
Green peas
Green pepper
Kale
Lettuce
Mushrooms Mustard greens
Onions
Potatoes
Spinach
Tomatoes
Turnip greens
Watercress
Yams
Zucchini

[Guaranteed]

78. FEEL BETTER?

*&*&^ YOU.

We are OMNIVORES. You see those pointy canines in the top of your mouth? Those aren't for chewing carrots. Those are for RIPPING FLESH.

Our bodies NEED meat as part of a balanced diet.

[hollywood926]

87. I won't get into an argument about this on this thread but

we certainly do not need meat. There are an awful lof of vegetarians who appear to be alive and walking the earth. Therefore, your point has already been disproven. Are they weak and sickly? I don't know. Ask athletes Billie Jean King or Carl Lewis or Edwin Moses or Joe Namath or Martina Navritalova. They're all vegetarians.

[trotsky]

101. Are those people all vegetarians, or vegans?

Lacto-ovo vegetarians generally get an adequate supply of animal proteins from their diets. Vegans have to be very careful to each enough of the right kinds of foods, and most I have known also have to take supplements.

[Guaranteed]

103. Yes, as a matter of fact, the hardcore vegetarians I know

do look thin. I knew a vegetarian girl that was a good 5'10" (as tall as me) and probably weighed 120 pounds. She was like a stick.

She even talked to me about how careful she had to be about protein since she wasn't eating meat.

You're trying to play games with nature. If you want to starve your body of something it needs, that's fine, but don't try to guilt others into it. I like being healthy, and so does virtually every other culture in the world. It's what we do, as humans and omnivores.

[trotsky]

99. That's a little misleading.

Meat contains all the amino acids that humans need - but each particular plant is low in one or more of them. To get your required proteins from a vegan diet, you have to eat a specific variety of plant products. That's why I say it's misleading to simply put up a list of protein-containing plants.

[Walt Starr]

61. Sorry, that's NOT the progressive view

That's the Vegan view and has nothing to do with Progressive vs. Regressive.

[Lilith Velkor]

189. And people ask me why I loathe vegans.

Goddam judgemental shitstains. "If you oppose war while eating meat you're a hypocrite!" Fuck off.

[ultraist]

72. I agree hollywood

A position on animal rights is political. I rarely eat meat because it's disgusting to me to think about how inhumanely these animals are raised and slaughtered. I'm not a purist nor am I totally diligent, though. I do believe in using animals for some medical research (a greater good approach). I also have leather shoes/bags/jackets, etc.

[TheWraith]

104. You can also get your neccessary nutrients from meat.

So why isn't it vegetarianism that's 'conservative'? Farming damages the soil, releases highly toxic chemicals into the environment, pollutes ponds and waterways, and often employs migrant labor. Why should we continue to tolerate this detrimental practice of growing food? Because it's traditional? Because it fits somebody's classification of 'natural'? We were hunters long before we were farmers.

Just because something is natural doesn't make it conservative, and just because something is invented by humans doesn't make it progressive. Humans have invented war, dogma, bias, et al.

[hollywood926]

165. What?

You need to KILL an animal to eat an animal. That's problem numero uno. You do NOT need toxins or migrant labor to grow food. You need good soil, water and sunshine. Toxins and migrant labor are separate issues, Ted Nugent. (you liberal, you!)

[TheWraith]

197. And yet, most farming is done with a great deal of damage

Just as much meat is not raised humanely. And you have to kill a plant to eat a plant, too. Or does your outrage only extend to your fellow fleshbags? How vertebrocentric of you. ;)

Dear god, I'm evil. (laughing)

This reminds me of a bit from the scifi parody novel The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, part of the Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy series. To get around questions about eating meat, they bred an animal that wanted to be eaten and was capable of saying so.

"A green salad," said Arthur emphatically.

"A green salad?" said the animal, rolling his eyes disapprovingly at Arthur.

"Are you going to tell me," said Arthur, "that I shouldn't have green salad?"

"Well," said the animal, "I know many vegetables that are very clear on that point."

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mongo]

148. gay marriage

I don't favour gay marriage because that's how we're meant to be.
Any moron knows we're supposed to reproduce, and gays can't do that.

If that's true do you favor manditory fertility tests before marriage?

Lot's of hetro people get married without the slightest intention of having children. Should that be illegal too?

and out here in 'mericka we harvest our wheat with combines - we found that shooting the wheat with our carbines wasn't very efficient.

[hollywood926]

162. You should read the other posts before you reply...

I never said eating meat was BAD. I said it was along the lines of a conservative mindset - just like my opinion on the death penalty, which is typically a conservative point of view.

I had yummy meatballs on New Year's Day. I hardly judge anyone who eats meat. But eating animals is a conservative - and very popular - way of thinking.

[Walt Starr]

5. Second Amendment and the Death Penalty

Although supporting the Second Amendment should be considered a liberal viewpoint, IMO.

[Jesus Saves]

44. I bet you like BBQ

[Walt Starr]

60. I barbeque every chance I get in the summer

My favorite is Baby Back Ribs over Mesquite with a spicy-sweet sauce.

[Taverner]

134. I agree 2nd ammendment should be a liberal viewpoint

Malloy had a great rant on it last night

[jayfish]

154. Guns, Guns, Guns.

The more the better. Really!

Jay

[RebelOne]

6. Well, I am not against the death penalty.

I favor gun ownership. I don't eat meat though. I could care less about gay marriage. In my opinion, to each his own. And there were times when I hated Clinton when he was in office. But I hate Bush all the time.

[TN al]

7. Neither you nor Indianablue have found my conservative spot yet...

...but then I don't believe I have one. To think that I might be in agreement with any of those pukes is unsettling.

[mitchtv]

8. no tax cuts til the deficit is gone

I consider myself a conservative on this point.

[Democrats_win]

20. pay-as-you go.

[leyton]

119. ditto. I'm a fiscal conservative in this regard

though I'm an economic progressive, not sure if those are at odds.

[ProfessorGAC]

212. They Are NOT At Odds

Believing that the government should not borrow money absent drastic emergency is not a conservative idea. It's a liberal approach, because since cutting spending is harder than raising money, the result will be higher marginal tax rates.

Pragmatism is not a conservative trait. It's a liberal trait as well. Believing that the common good is served by the gov't services provided, and expecting the tax rates to be set progessively at a level to assure sufficient cash flow is pragmatic. It simple makes sense. That's a liberal view.

You're not a fiscal conservative. That is a misdefined term approrpriated by the right wing. They are NOT fiscal conservatives. Fiscal conservatives do not believe in spending more than they take in. They are lying. You and i are fiscal conservatives, but that's a liberal position.
The Professor

[notadmblnd]

9. Parental responsibility for their childrens actions

I would have to say that is my most conservative viewpoint.

[otohara]

80. I Did Not Know They Alone "Owned" This Issue

Hmmm.... this is news to me

[ultraist]

94. Liberals are the ones who support Responsible Parenthood

Liberals support funding social programs that include teaching parenting skills. Repukes have a very punitive approach which includes no education or intervention. Their policies do NOT promote responsible parenthood.

CLINTON established the "Responsible Fatherhood" intiative which included support programs for parents to encourage them to be more involved with their children, learn parenting skills, and support regular child support payments.

It's a MYTH that Repukes support responsible parenthood.

[otohara]

121. Myth of Major Proportions

along with so many other "conservative" myths.

[ultraist]

126. exactly, like Repukes actually SUPPORT reducing the abortion rate

Promoting ineffective abstinence programs has INCREASED the abortion rate and teen pregnancy.

[notadmblnd]

188. I didn't say they did, I said it was my most conservative viewpoint

But I do mean up to and including imprisonment for the crimes of their juvenile children.

A few years ago a little boy, I think he was eight at the time, got a hold of an old 22, ran up to the top of the hill and shot a man dead across the street. The mother was at work and the deadbeat father was in another state performing social work with other peoples children. The mother had left the child unsupervised and a terrible tragedy occurred. Now I don't necessarily think the mother should have been imprisoned (or maybe she should), but the father definitely should have. Perhaps if he had paid his child support the mother would have been able to afford care for her child while she was working, Instead the child is locked up and both parents are now free to do as they like in life. I remember at the time, the prosecutor wanted to try this kid as an adult.

on edit: Columbine is another example where I feel the parents should have been held accountable. Where were they? How could their kids be storing weapons and making bombs in their bedroom and the parents not even have an inkling?

[Bouncy Ball]

180. How is that a conservative viewpoint?

I think parents should be responsible for their kids, too.

I'm a parent.

Just because a person is liberal doesn't mean their parenting views are just "anything goes."

[MsTryska]

10. hmmm....I've got a few....

I'm pro death penalty, against illegal immigration, and i believe workfare is a better option than welfare.

[piece sine]

11. I read the DrudgeReport

every day, without guilt.

[trotsky]

13. Hmm.. mandatory school uniforms?

Is that conservative? I'd prefer kids wear standard generic uniforms for school.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. It's not conservative if poor kids get them for free in public schools.

Which is the way it should be IMHO. Ah, books too.

[trotsky]

30. That I'd support, definitely.

Although I'd be OK too with just non-designer-label white shirts and dark pants, if that could be called a "uniform."

[adwon]

14. It's not conservative or liberal

Different people can have access to the same information and reach different conclusions.

[mark414]

15. eating meat is conservative?

what?

[Lilith Velkor]

190. So is driving a car.

But since the OP is trying to pass off Veganism as part of mainstream liberalism, smearing meat-eaters as conservative is a priority.

[Rowdyboy]

16. I have a far more conservative stand on crime than I did when I was

in college. Likewise, the death penalty. I opposed it 100% in college, however, I now think it serves a purpose in some cases. Just my opinion....

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

17. Gambling.

Vicious, destructive activity. Should be regulated to near extinction.

[JitterbugPerfume]

29. YES i AM CONSERVATIVE

conserve ANWAR

conserve Roe v Wade

conserve the democratic process

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

42. And why do you try to have less cars?

No matter how many cars you have you can still only drive one at a time.

[XuChi]

49. ha ha

funny you know i mean it not for there being so many cars in usa using up oil and gas

[Freedom_from_Chains]

147. Oh, sorry, I was unsure

n/t :)

[Rockholm]

93. Is spell check conservative or liberal?

[Wilms]

21. TV/Hollywood

Seems everyone :eyes: at the trash on TV/Movies.

But the moment that subject is approached politically, there's a tendency for the left to knee-jerk support for the corporations that spit out that garbage.

Not me.

[info being]

137. I agree. I'm anti big media

[SarahB]

22. I'm pro-hunting.

I don't hunt, but on a theoretical basis I'm not against it primarily because I believe hunting is more humane than commercial agriculture. I have a bit of trouble with hunting just for sport though (i.e. food isn't utilized).

[JNelson6563]

160. For practical reasons I am too

many kitchens here in the north are meat processing plants for a short time in the fall.

Julie

[Jesus Saves]

23. Eating meat is conservative?

As Jon Stewart would say - 'Whhhhaaaaa?'

[hollywood926]

33. it's not really much of a political issue, but

it's definitely a conservative idea.

[ultraist]

81. Animal rights is a political issue

We do have animal welfare laws and policies.

[SaveElmer]

24. English as the official language

I have some sympathy with this as I do see an increasing balkinization of the U.S. However, this viewpoint is so intertwined with anti-immigration movements that I don't want to associate myself with it.

[cynatnite]

25. Sure

Spend money only when you've got it. No senseless running up the debt.

Parental responsibility

No decriminilization of drugs except for medically approved reasons.

[UdoKier]

28. If "eating meat" is conservative, 90+% of democrats are conservative.

As for me, my "conservative viewpoints would be - I object to smutty commercials on free cable channels that can't be blocked by the V-Chip.

I also am opposed to some of the more excessive provisions of the ADA, which has it to the point that there are sometimes 15 empty handicap spots in front of a store, and forcing older buildings that should be grandfathered to build raps, lifts, etc. I think that was a bit too far-reaching (it was signed by Poppy).

I don't hate Bill Clinton, but most of my gipes with him are for his being way too right-wing, (as well as shilling for Bush's Iraq war.)
Umm... Can't think of much else...

[hollywood926]

57. ARGHHHHH i guess i'm not good at making my points clear!

I didn't say if you are a meat eater, you are a conservative. I said, eating meat is a conservative viewpoint.

I am pro-death penalty. That doesn't mean I am a conservative. It's just one conservative viewpoint I happen to have.

[UdoKier]

75. No reason to get huffy.

I just don't buy the notion that meat-eating/vegetarianism is partisan. Hitler was a vegetarian, and he was no liberal. Eating huge amounts of meat may be destructive to the environment, but there is nothing wrong with some meat now and then. Our bodies were made to eat it.

It's like saying that using fossil fuels to get around is a conservative lifestyle. It just plain AIN'T.

[hollywood926]

92. I didn't say it was partisan

Actually, Hitler pretended to be a vegetarian - he wasn't one.

But I didn't say it had anything to do with party affiliation. "Conservative" is not a party affiliation. "Republican" is a party. "Conservative" is a mentality. You can be a conservative democrat.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ultraist]

102. Not true Udokier

One can have a conservative stance on one issue and still be a Democrat or generally liberal.

Being environmentally responsible is a liberal stance. Environmentally responsible includes respecting ALL of ecology, ALL living creatures and our planet. There are degrees here, as with any issue.

[UdoKier]

113. And eating animals is not "disrespecting" them.

I have the same problems with factory farming and animal cruelty as many others do, but eating meat is a normal function of our place as omnivores in the food chain.

I don't disrespect the fish I eat any more than I disrespect the lettuce that died for my salad, or anymore than the lion disrespects the gazelle.

Gluttonous overconsumption of beef would qualify as a right-wing lifestyle, but moderate consumption of a variety of meats is not necessarily so.

Decades of sermons from vegetarians have yet to convince the vast majority of progressives otherwise...

[ultraist]

130. I do agree with your statement:

"Gluttonous overconsumption of beef would qualify as a right-wing lifestyle, but moderate consumption of a variety of meats is not necessarily so."

I'm not a purist by any stretch. I eat some meat but also recognize the cruelty involved as well as the envio damage, like clear cutting rain forests to raise beef (remember the big hoopla over McDonalds?)

Environmentalists claim that raising animals for consumption and eating meat is very wasteful, damaging and unnecessary. (The progressives that posit the sustainability theory).

I also don't recycle as much as I should but I am a very left leaning on social issues. One lifestyle habit doesn't determine someone's total position, politically. I doubt many progressives are 100% diligent in all of their affairs! We are only human.

[hollywood926]

164. But the lion doesn't have the ability to reason...

that's what is supposed to separate us from them. Just because we CAN kill animals for food doesn't mean we SHOULD. Perhaps our Creator wonders the same thing. "Why did I give them the ability to reason, trees and fertile land to feed them, a conscience...and still they kill for their own immediate gratification."

And you don't think this a conservative issue? Let's ask Ted Nugent where he stands on this.

[CityZen-X]

31. Pro Gun

And I am against the Politically Correctness of it all.

[Mz Pip]

32. I'm not anti-gun

though I don't really believe the Democrats ever wanted to take away your guns. That's just NRA spin.

I do not believe there is government solution for everything. In fact, I wish people and companies were more responsible so the government wasn't involved in so many things.

Taxes. Something has to be done about the 50,000 page tax code.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Vickers]

34. They've abandoned the ones I agree with

things like

- fiscal responsibility (were they ever? hard to remember)

- government stays the fuck out of my business (they blew that one BIG TIME)

- military only gets involved when we are actually threatened

etc. etc.

[bunkerbuster1]

35. A whole bunch, actually...

At random, the first that come to mind:

Kids should abstain from sex until they're 18.

Ditto for recreational drugs.

All things being equal, a two-parent household is vastly preferable to a single parent household.

Parents need to set strict limits and be firm with their kids about things like diet, bedtime, TV, computer use.

Some people really are poor because they're lazy.

George W. Bush possesses above average intelligence.

His dad was an OK President.

Most of Air America's programming is whiny.

[dryan]

43. My 2 cents....

Very conservative on sex (you should be monogamous when you are in a relationship or marriage, dress, (too many plunging necklines and what's with grabbing your crouch all the time!) and personal responsibility.

[bunkerbuster1]

69. That's about where I am.

which is why it's galling to hear RWers going on about what libertines we liberals are supposed to be.

[hollywood926]

46. You had me until the "Bush is smart" one...

Ha ha ha. But the rest of them I can totally understand.

[bunkerbuster1]

64. there's a difference between being "smart"

(which IMHO Chimpy is NOT) and possessing above average intelligence.

I think W's the kind of guy who'd probably manage to weasle his way into a management position of some kind if he were born to ordinary parents, rather than the Bush royalty. Chief among his multitude of character flaws, he's chronically lazy; but he's always been conniving enough to learn enough to get by.

Put it this way--he's the guy who never studied, did a half-assed job on the assignments, but crammed enough to pull a C+ on the finals. Problem is that's how he runs the damn country.

<on edit--changed "bright" to "conniving">

[ProfessorGAC]

217. He Didn't Earn Those C+'s

Those were legacy inflation grades. The Ivy League admits that the 60's were their biggest period of legacy grade inflation. They corrected it sharply in the 70's, but it's creeping back in over the last 25 years.
The Professor

[Bouncy Ball]

183. One of those things you wrote

is NOT necessarily a conservative viewpoint and I REALLY disagree with labeling it that way:

"Parents need to set strict limits and be firm with their kids about things like diet, bedtime, TV, computer use."

I'm a BIG FLAMING liberal and a parent and I do that. What's so conservative about that?

The goal is to be an authoritarian parent. Most conservatives are authoritative, which is no good. Permissive is no good, either.

This is not a political issue.

[bunkerbuster1]

203. Dunno, who decides what's "right" or "left?"

Yours is a perfectly fair point, I'm just thinking in terms of what's (stereo)typically thought of as conservative or liberal.

And I've no problem with referring to specific components of what constitutes my ethical core as "conservative," because I don't really consider myself leftist anyway. Somehow being centrist in America has become the new "liberal."

good luck with your kid-rearin', BTW. We all need some a' that.

[info being]

47. I'm for a flat tax

And then using the money for social services as opposed to funding war.

Also, it would be important to take away loopholes for the rich...so they'd actually end up paying their fair share of the flat tax. Slovakia has recently gone to this model...a 19% flat tax for businesses and individuals...without loopholes.

I'm moving there in just over a month so we'll see what the reality is.

[MrSlayer]

48. Death Penalty, Immigration, Balanced Budget

I'd like to see more crimes eligible for capital punishment and the sentence carried out quickly, I'd like to close the borders to eliminate or at least drastically reduce illegal immigration (legal immigration I have no problem with) and I'd like a balanced budget. I'm also for equal rights, gay marriage, women's right to choose, pro-union, pro-environment, legalizing drugs, fair elections and universal healthcare. I always end up as a socialist and left of Gandhi on the political tests but I have some conservative viewpoints.

[hollywood926]

50. Oh I thought of another one - pornography

Although I have mixed feelings about it and have (once) enjoyed it, I do think it hurts women and certainly negatively affects the way young males view women.

[Coastie for Truth]

51. No secret - I am a faith based leftie

My grandfather (who pretty much raised me) spent a life time drawing parallels between Scripture and Marx and using those parallels in his sermons and writing. He felt that one could not attain "Salvation" or "God's Grace" or "T'shuvah" unless one was at least a Welfare Statist - Socialist.

While I never believed the flowery details of the allegorical narrative - or the out and out science fiction of Scripture -- I do buy into the interpersonal relationships rules in Scripture.

And, I do follow the activist social theology of Rev Jim Wallis and Rabbi Michael Lerner - and I do think Pope John XXIII was a "neat guy" and Mother Theresa was a "cool lady" and that Rev Martin Luther King Jr. was one of the greatest people of our generation.

My all time three favorite Presidents were FDR, Jimmie Carter, and Bill Clinton.

[Scout Finch]

53. I'm pretty sure that

In general, bilingualism taught in public schools holds back progress for Hispanic, African-American, or ANY students.

Free welfare without any responsibility nor obligation creates a sense of entitlement and tends to kill any natural desire to improve one's own life.

One of the best meals I've ever eaten was a tasty, petite, juicy filet mignon—prepared medium rare. So that's conservative, eh?

[ultraist]

89. We don't have "free welfare" with no obligations

Read Clinton's Welfare Reform bill. There are time limits as well as workfirst requirements. Only the disabled or handicapped are exempt.

And yes, animal rights is a political issue. We have animal welfare laws and policies. Furthermore, environmentalism includes the animals' well being. No one has said environmentalism isn't a political issue, why is that? Animal rights is part of that. Respect for our planet includes respect for ALL life forms, not just plants and trees.

Should animals suffocate from oil spills? Should animals be raised and slaughtered in unethical and inhumane ways? These are POLICY issues. Regulations and laws dictate how animals are treated.

[Cuban_Liberal]

54. 2nd Amendment, balanced budget, strong national defense. n/t

[Guaranteed]

56. Yeah, that's basically it for me, plus

I'm not so gung-ho about letting people "off" themselves, or letting other people "off" them.

[Cuban_Liberal]

68. Same here.

:thumbsup:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

177. Balanced budget and national defense aren't necessarily conservative

especially since surpluses are larger under Democrats.

[1gobluedem]

55. I don't think eating meat is a 'conservative viewpoint'

Humans are carnivores. I can argue for meat to be raised humanely and to eat organic meat; I am certainly against factory farms but I gladly eat meat and consider myself far left of center.

[Redstone]

74. I agree,

if God hadn't wanted us to eat animals, why did he / she make them out of meat?

Redstone

[Beaverhausen]

79. IF you believe humans descended from apes then no, we aren't carnivores

we are herbivores.

Raising and slaughtering animals for food causes a lot of ecological damage to the environment. That is the reason I stopped eating meat.

[Guaranteed]

83. If we were herbivores, we wouldn't be eating meat,

and have been eating meat since as far back as history records.

We're omnivores. We eat both plants and animals.

[1gobluedem]

86. Omnivores, yes

That's what I should have said; not carnivores.

But I still don't think meat-eating can be classified as 'conservative.' Is SUV driving 'conservative?' Arguments can be made for that too even though there are plenty of liberals/progressives who drive SUVs, a lot out necessity (work, terrain, climate, etc).


It used to be that liberals were 'supposed' to drive small, foreign cars. Because I drive a made-in-the-USA Chevy Malibu does that make me conservative? I wouldn't think so.

[Beaverhausen]

91. yes, sorry omnivores. but we do have a choice

I stopped eating meat for enviromental reasons which puts it in the category of being a "liberal" choice.

[Guaranteed]

96. Don't crops take up land too? nt

[Beaverhausen]

98. 100 lbs of grain yields 1 lb of meat

not very efficient use of the land.

[Guaranteed]

109. You got me there, but

not eating meat isn't a very efficient way of getting the protein a body needs, either.

[Beaverhausen]

112. How many people get each and every nutrient, vitamin, mineral

etc. that they need? Really, how many people eat absolutely perfect diets? I don't know anyone who does, do you?

The vegetarians I know are very conscious of making sure to get enough protein. As someone posted above there are many sources of it.

[Guaranteed]

114. Probably not many, but when you cut out an entire food group,

that's pretty severe.

Imagine if someone told you that they absolutely would not eat vegetables. Would you expect that person to be healthy?

[Beaverhausen]

128. Heart disease is the number one killer.

High cholesterol contributes to heart disease.

Cholesterol IS animal fat.

And as long as people get protein and iron from other sources I think they are probably healthier than meat eaters.

but like I said...I am doing it for the environmental reasons.

[ultraist]

136. Raising livestock and eating meat is environmentally unsound & unnecessary

Environmental Sustainability Perspective (Progressive view)

excerpts:

http://www.oswego.edu/~schneidr/CHE300/envinv/EnvInv10.html

Raising livestock for human consumption requires enormous amounts of grain. For the last forty years approximately 37% of the world's annual grain harvest has been fed to livestock. However, in the United States the percentage of grain (excluding exports) fed to livestock is closer to 90%. The same is true for other affluent developed countries. David Pimentel in his book Food, Energy and Society (University Press of Colorado, 1996) suggests that rather than feed grain to livestock, we should let the livestock eat grass and divert the grain to human consumption. He estimates that for every 130 million tons of diverted grain we could feed an additional 400 million people. In other words, we could feed an additional 2 billion people worldwide if grain fed to livestock was diverted to human consumption.

Raising livestock, whether grass-fed or grain-fed, creates huge environmental problems. In the state of Oregon, 25,000 dairy cattle produce 300,000 gallons of waste every day! Many of the area's oyster growers blame contamination from the manure for closing shellfish harvesting for 50 to 90 days a year, thus directly affecting their livelihood. During a storm in the summer of 1995, 25 million gallons of concentrated swine manure and urine contaminated the New River in North Carolina as well as the New River Estuary. Increased oxygen demand and enormous blooms of algae thrived for three months after the discharge killing thousands of fish along the river and some 10,000 Atlantic menhaden at the site of a Pfiesteria outbreak.

Undoubtedly, the farmers of the world, including large corporate farming empires, need to strike a balance between feeding the masses and destroying the land on which their business depends. Let's hope it isn't too late.

****

Raising vast amounts of livestock disrupts the natural balance of ecology. Pig and cow shit run off are toxic. Pfiesteria is contaminating our rivers. Meat is NOT the only source of protein.

[coda]

199. They haven't "got you", lol. It's not 100 lbs.

In fact it's not even a tenth of that. :shrug:

[ultraist]

100. Exactly Beaverhausen! Animals are part of the ecological system

Animal rights is linked to environmental issues. Environmentalists do not support inhumane treatment of animals or unnecessary ecological damage.

[Lilith Velkor]

193. Neither do hunters.

And every hunter I've met eats meat.

[Lilith Velkor]

194. Humans didn't descend from apes, we *are* apes.

Primates with tails are called monkeys, and primates without tails are apes.

[Ariana Celeste]

58. Well...

I think our borders should be better controlled.
I want the government out of my bedroom.
I prefer a smaller government.

Funny thing is, what with the RR taking over, these 3 are no longer big with the Conservative side~ except with the real Conservatives.

[Guaranteed]

62. The second one never was, and the third

they just apply to business.

Conservatives want to control your ass, but leave your money free.

[Ariana Celeste]

77. Ahso, well strike the second one, lol

I thought it was, because that's a big thing with Conservatives in my family

[onehandle]

59. I'm anti-kitten.

Kittens are a plague on this planet. They should be tied down and dissected alive.

I'm thinking of running for Senate.

[CBHagman]

63. I am against permissiveness with children.

Don't get me wrong. I do not believe in the authoritarian parenting style that forbids discussion. But I am completely and wholeheartedly against treating young children as though they hold authority over members of their family, teachers, school administrators, coaches and the like. Children deserve nurturing and protection, and they need to be taught how to assume increasing responsibility as they grow older, but they should not be permitted to lord it over everyone around them.

I've heard parents entreat their small children to obey them. I've heard them thank children for following instructions (in a case where the child was very difficult and rather spoiled). I've seen parents let their children treat other adults rudely. None of this is going to go over well as the child goes out into the world. The first boss or the head of the department isn't going to play that game when the kid reaches adulthood.

[meow2u3]

105. IMO, both authoritarian and permissive parenting are forms of abuse

Authoritarian parents abuse their kids by demanding blind obedience to authority, legitimate and illegitimate, with no respect for the kid as a person. Authoritarianism is just a excuse for parents to push their kids around. When these kids grow up, they either become helpless adults who are unable to make decisions for themselves, overdisciplined to the point of running the risk for developing obsessive-compulsive personality, or go to the opposite extreme by rebelling against all authority figures, often to the point of patholigical narcissism.

Permissive parents, at the other extreme, allow their kids too much freedom for their age or level of maturity. Because they can do as they please, they grow up without little self-discipline or a defiant attitude towards legitimate authority figures who've often been the first to tell them "no."

There is a middle ground: it's known as authoritative parenting. Parents only permit as much freedom as the kid actually can handle, combining that with clear house rules which must be followed. Mom and Dad mix the "must do" with choices appropriate for their ages. Example: It's time to do your homework. Do you want to go to your room or do your homework at the dining room table?

[ultraist]

106. Liberals are not pro "permissiveness with children"

At least not liberals who are educated on child development or parenting. But using positive reinforcement is not inappropriate. It's a proven effective form of behavior mod.

Read Piaget, Kohlberg, Gulligan and some reputable works on effective parenting. Permissiveness is not effective. Being authoritative, nurturing, and responsive is the PROGRESSIVE style to parenting.

Teaching children appropriate boundaries by being authoriTATIVE (not authoriTARIAN) and avoiding use of physical force is the generally accepted style of parenting amongst liberals.

Liberals respect the work of reputable researchers and do not rely on the Bible or the old adage, "well that's how I was raised and that's how it's always been done." PROGRESSIVE means to continue to move forward, evolve and learn.

[Bouncy Ball]

184. And you DO realize

that what you described is not conservative OR liberal.

I know VERY conservative parents who are crappy and permissive.

And I know liberal parents (like myself) who are authoritative (not authoritarian) and know how to find a good balance.

[CBHagman]

191. Actually, I wasn't thinking of self-described liberals.

I hear a lot of whining from conservatives that the 1960s and Dr. Spock ruined everything by making the U.S. a permissive society, which is sheer nonsense.

I was thinking of parenting styles that have sort of seeped into
mainstream thinking. I find the most unbelievable extremes out there -- parents whomping on their children in public and parents expecting four-year-olds to make major decisions. Bizarre.

But I have this strange respect for authority and order, despite being the only leftist in a family of Republicans. I just rather assume that people will think my attitudes towards child-rearing are conservative. It's nice to know there's a more nuanced view here at DU.

[SujiwanKenobee]

65. OK, I'll bite...

ILLEGAL immigration or immigration overly biased in numbers from certain countries
Gay "marriage"--not against according civli and properties rights, but don't call it "marriage"-give it a new name.

[ultraist]

111. Why NOT call Gay marriage, "marriage?"

Unless you are using a religious reference for the definition of marriage. Seperation of church and state.

Equal rights for ALL is a core Democratic value.

[More Than A Feeling]

138. free exercise clause

marriage is a religious sacrament that can be given to whomever the church/synogogue/whatever want. Government cannot force churchs to marry anyone. Rights, on the other hand, come from the state and must be given equally. Now, if gays and lesbians find a religion/denomination/etc that will marry them, then they can be called married. Otherwise, they have a civil union, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE WHO WASN'T MARRIED IN A CHURCH OR OTHER RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION.

[ultraist]

139. Yes, but people use the term interchangeably

Marriage, originally came from the churches, well actually religions that existed pre organized religion. But I do think some states have "marriage" licenses.

I agree with Deroshowitz on this. Civil unions for ALL, with the same rights and leave "marriage" to the churches. Why use a religious term for a state sanctioned license? Time to update that, IMO.

[More Than A Feeling]

141. Precisely. Civil unions for all, marriage for those who want the ceremony

in the church.

A common sense position that would completely neutralize the opposition of everyone who wasn't already an outright bigot.

This should be the party platform, IMHO, if it isn't already.

[ultraist]

142. I agree, it takes the religiously loaded meaning out of it

And puts it into the realm of Equal rights for all. Churches can do as they please. The state does not regulate them.

I really don't understand why the party does not promote civil unions for all and approach it this way. I read Deroshowitz's statement at least a year ago and if I remember correctly, it was an old article.

We should NOT allow the Repukes to frame the issues and distort reality by doing this. Discrimination should NOT be tolerated.

[More Than A Feeling]

153. I didn't know Dershowitz or anyone else had thought of this

when I thought of it, I thought I was being original. That is why I say it is common sense, because it is the logical reconciliation of this problem.

[ultraist]

156. I agree, it's the LOGICAL solution as well as effective framing

[Kitsune]

66. I likes my guns.

Although, when you think about it, gun ownership really shouldn't be a rightist viewpoint. More regulation = more authoritarian = more rightist. Less regulation = more permissive = leftist. Therefore I don't see any reason why the Republicans, who are more openly authoritarian, are the party of the NRA. Makes absolutely _zero_ sense to me.

Kind of like capitalism.

[taught_me_patience]

70. 1) I support wal-mart

2) government should crack down on illegal immigration
3) illegal aliens should not be allowed to have driver's licenses
4) I support giving states greater rights

taught

[otohara]

129. Wal-Mart & Illegals

they love illegals, you do know that right? They got busted for locking them in the stores at night. http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/02/03/walmart.lawsuit.ap/index.html

[otohara]

73. Nothing - And Since When Are Some of These Issues Strictly

perceived as conservative? Conservatives are first and foremost "hypocrite's".

How many conservatives smoke pot, a whole bunch and I know a young republican couple, loves pot.... councils teens at their right-wing church. I know republican women who had abortions when they were young, and talk about personal responsibility in their own financial situation....shit - they are all in debt up to their ears.

These are "buzz" phrases and words that they have latched onto, when in reality they don't follow what they preach except the hate issues like abortion, amd gay marriage.

If being conservative means you have to support assholes like Bush and his band of assholes, and their lies about life, war, drugs, sex, money, children, moral values???

[solinvictus]

76. A few...

1) Parental responsibility for children and, if a teenager has a kid out of wedlock and no means to support it; she gets a Norplant.
2) Balance the damned budget.
3) No "nanny nation" of churches or government to tell any of us how to live our lives and what we can or can't do with our bodies.
4) I'm in favor of a strong defense to counteract the growing threat of Red China.

[Goldmund]

82. I hate political correctness...

...but that's mostly because I'm too liberal for political correctness.

I can't think of another one.

[hollywood926]

95. Oh me too me too me too me too!

I hate political correctness!

[cags]

84. Abortion, but

only regarding the medical procedure.

I think they are all mindless twits in the way they try to prevent it. And I don't hold that position because of any religious belief either.

[cry baby]

85. Balanced budget, strong defense, gun ownership nt

[Johatson]

90. I don't believe in abortion.

[ultraist]

143. Then don't have one. Equal rights for ALL

Including women's right to privacy. ;)

[Runcible Spoon]

97. I conserve water, electricity, fossil fuels, etc.

that is how I am conservative.

[klyon]

107. balanced budget

I'm so conservative in money matters I really don't believe in corporations.

KL

[Darranar]

108. Dislike Bill Clinton - but for fully left-wing reasons...

Not exactly a "conservative viewpoint," unless socialism and borderline pacifism are right-wing ideologies.

I eat meat - but I think I shouldn't.

Maybe gun control - not really an ardent supporter, but not really opposed either.

[bklyncowgirl]

110. I'm a fiscal conservative (cheap)

If you don't have it don't spend it. That goes for your personal life as well as for the government.

Good intentions are not enough, government programs should actually work.

I'm ambiguous about abortion but come down on the side of retaining Roe vs Wade.

I don't think that people should spend their entire lives on welfare and train their children to do the same. I do believe, however, that if people are forced off welfare that during the transition from welfare to work, they should be given whatever support mechanisms are necessary to enable them to work.

I'm not a total peacenic--I do believe that the is such a thing as a just war--I supported the Chimp's decision to send troops into Afganistan but not that misadventure in Iraq.

Prison should be unpleasant. Prisoners should be given a choice of getting an education or performing repetitive physical labor--hit the books or hit the rocks.

I can't stand liberals who have no sense of humor and an overreaching sense of self righteousness.

Self-righteously yours,

the mixed up cowgirl

[ultraist]

123. Clinton's Welfare Reform bill has time limits and work requirements

NO ONE, except the disabled or handicapped can just live off of welfare without working anymore.

I'm amazed that several people here never read a summary of Clinton's welfare reform bill and seem to think that welfare recipients are lazy and undeserving.

[bklyncowgirl]

144. I agree with some of Clinton's welfare reform bill.

Actually, I take the more liberal position of being for more transitional help for welfare recipients in the form of day care and counselling than the Clinton reforms actually worked out to.

I guess what I was referring to was the image of liberals as promoted by conservatives as being in favor of letting people stay on welfare forever. I'm all for giving people help. I'm against welfare as a way of life and you're right, the Clinton reforms did alot to end that.

[ultraist]

157. Yes, the conservatives like to distort the truth on this

They also oppose effective social programs, such as the ones you suggested regarding transitioning. Many progressives thought some of Clinton's welfare reforms were too harsh and punitive.

I think the means tested limits should be raised a bit too. I worked with families who didn't qualify for food stamps or day care vouchers because they made slightly above min wage. But without the assistance, they couldn't make ends meet.

[Beacho]

118. The most obvious 'conservative' streak I have

Is gun ownership, which I believe is a (classical) liberal position.

[TheWraith]

120. Well...

I stongly believe in a balanced budget. That's kind of cons--uh... okay, forget that.

I'm firmly behind the First Amendment. The government shouldn't be able to tell you what you can say, or what to believe, or... or... (sigh).

Privacy! There's one. What I do is none of the government's damn business, and they shouldn't be allowed to snoop on my life or come into my home and--Ah, fuck.

Defense. We should aways have an effective military, and should never allow them to run short on basic neccessities or let them get bogged down unneccessarily. (Facial tic develops.)

Abortion. I don't think it should be treated lightly or considered a form of birth control.

Wait a second. The Rs love to fund-raise and campaign with the abortion stuff, but when it comes right down to it they have no interest at all in trying to change anything. I fact, most of the far-right would probably love it if doctors started beheading babies with a scalpel, since it would whip up the fundies even further.

Okay, I've got nothing.

It seems to me that any worthwhile positions on the right became ours by default years ago, by way of the Republicans' refusal to have anything to do with them.

[LSdemocrat]

122. I'm against lotteries and legalized gambling and also I support free trade

Of course I have a couple caveats: I'd increase state taxes (on the rich) to replace lost gambling revenue.

On free trade I would also institute much stricter antitrust laws.

[NewJeffCT]

132. I agree on free trade. I'm also for fiscal responsibility

I'd do a much better job of enforcing the free trade agreements - granted, it's tough to do in China with their 1.3 billion population and Byzantine legal system - but, if we had continued on the fiscally responsible path we were on in the 90s, we'd maybe have leverage to get China & India to enforce their own laws.

[William Bloode]

125. For myself,

It would be immigration, guns, and i am a touch of a fiscal conservative. I totally agree with a social safety net, but most government programs like DEA, ATF, CIA, Homeland Security, and numerous other wasteful government programs could be flushed and the money used elsewhere.

[Justpat]

127. Immigration

When it comes to this issue, I am to the right of Pat Buchanan.

THe immigration policy in this country was instituted when the
nation was a wide open expanse. Now that space is shrinking and the
economy is changing, I believe the immigration policy should be
radically changed before it is too late. We need to absorb and
integrate the different cultures that have been flooding here in
the last two decades.

THe idea that we are a nation of immigrants is part of our national
psyche, but it needs to fade into our history and remain part of
our national myth. We must deal with the realities that unchecked
immigration has caused to our schools, our health care and most
recently our national security.

On every other issue I can think of, I am a flaming liberal and
always have been and intend on remaining so.

[Taverner]

131. Pro-Gun

I think even fully automatic weapons should be legal.

However, I think gun owners should practice personal responsibility. For example, if you have a toddler, keep your guns in an armory or at least put gun locks on them. Or forgo your guns until he or she turns 15.

[OrlandoGator]

135. 100% pro gun rights, lower taxes and balanced budgets.

Not that today's Republicans are necessarily for any of those things either.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

140. I'm conservative about energy and the environment

both should be conserved. Other than that, I am against a balanced budget amendment though I do FAVOR balancing the budget, I don't favor it being a mandate as social programs are the first to be hurt. I favor the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns but I favor regulation of those guns and the TYPES of guns owned. I don't FAVOR illegal immigration but as pointed out early on in this thread the issue is a canard. I personally would never have an abortion, but then again, I am gay and boycott sperm...I believe that issue is between a woman, her physician and her conscience. EOM

(oh yeah..and I am for a strong national defense but not the FEED ME LEROY shop of horrors we have parading as a defense program)

[Iris]

145. I eat meat and pornography makes me queasy.

That's pretty much it.

[Lori Price CLG]

146. I want a strong Second Amendment, as the premise of arming yourself...

...can cut both ways, whether the Reichwing likes it or not.

Oh. And should the *real* architects of the 9/11 terrorist attacks be arrested (members of the Bush regime), I advocate treason trials, with all penalties for treason on the plate. :)

Meanwhile, here is a good essay:
Arming the Left: Is the time now? --by Charles Southwell "As long as we pose no REAL threat to the powers-that-be, to what is shaping up into a dictatorship, we will continue to be ignored. Right now, we are ignored because we present no organized power to fight this onslaught of anti-democratic, totalitarian government that we are up against..."

Cheers,
Lori Price

[tsuki]

149. Fiscally conservative.

[da_chimperor]

150. For me: free trade and fiscal responsibility

That's about it. Oh, and I'm sort-of for the death penalty, but I think the process needs to be improved and it should be very rarely used.

[Silverhair]

151. Pro-Gun, Strong Defense, Balanced Budget. NT

[distantearlywarning]

152. Here's mine.

I would not support a total ban on the private ownership of guns (although I do support some restrictions).

I am undecided about the death penalty.

I hate political correctness. It irritates me.

I am not a pacifist (although I don't support the current state of affairs in Iraq).

I am barely pro-choice.

I fully accept my own nature as a predator (i.e., I eat meat).

I think before the rise of the bizarre fundie-neocon marriage in the GOP, I would have been considered a moderate Republican.

Now (compared to them) I am a raging liberal. Why? Because I think the government should stay the fuck out of my neighbor's bedroom and off my cable television and because I don't buy the argument that torture = fraternity prank, and because I don't want to see the Ten Commandments posted at the doorway of every courthouse in the country.

Whatever. Fucking crazy jesus-freak morons.

I have been thinking recently that what being a "Democrat" should mean in America these days is less about the traditional issues (pro-choice, welfare, anti-death penalty, gun control, blah blah blah) and more about being the party that stands up against the New World Order. We can fight about vegetarianism later if we want - AFTER we get rid of BusHitler and his cronies. That's what this party needs to stand for now. Just MHO.

[Catch22Dem]

155. Here's mine...

[ultraist]

158. LOL! ditto

[hollywood926]

169. Hahahaha. I knew there was at least one.

Can't think of a thing, huh? I admire that. :-)

[Catch22Dem]

211. Oh, I'm sure I could, but...

I don't wanna give the freepers any fodder. Personally, I think the people who responded "fiscally conservative" are so full of shit! Would one of you please give an actual PERSONAL definition of that please? I'm not fiscally conservative. I'd like the government to spend 10 times more on programs, and 10 times less on the military (I'm saying this as an 8 year veteran) The pentagon has been given a blank check for 3 generations or more. Let's reign those fuckers in. If you say that makes me fiscally conservative, I'll tell you right now, I'll use the money we save from that on other social programs. HAHA, so there!

[Zynx]

159. Pro-Gun, Pro-Life, anti-political correctness.

I think slavery reparations are nonsense. I think that education is better controlled on the state and local level. I am opposed to strenuous regulations on small business. Also, I am pro-nuclear power. I am anti-vegetarian and I absolutely hate the preechy hippie types that think just because they read a few books that they can preach how my life should be run.

Oh, one last thing, I believe Capitalism is the best economic system out there, with a social safety net of course, but socialism and Communism just don't work.

[Tweed]

166. So basically you are a populist

:thumbsup: :toast: Me too

[Zynx]

204. You betcha.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

161. I'm an extremely conservative eater

I like my food to resemble food from one hundred years ago and more, although of course I use refrigeration to keep it fresh.

I am a transportation conservative. I like to travel by foot, bicycle, train, boat, or animal-powered conveyance.

I am an educational conservative. I believe students should be disciplined and hold their teachers in awe. I believe they should learn history and geography by rote, recite lines of poetry every week, and be ready to read Shakespeare before they hit puberty. I believe in the teaching of Latin. Not only did these things give me an enormous advantage in life over the majority without them, classroom discipline protected me from untold amounts of peer abuse.

Above all, I am the kind of conservative who believes in individual rights and privacy. I hold most sacred my right to choose my associates. I share my "feelings" with a minimum number of people. I define my goals as large projects to accomplish rather than personal growth or relationship development.

All of my forms of conservatism directly oppose me to the radical New-Ager George W. Bush.

[Tweed]

167. Pro-life

Legal abortions should be extremely limited.

[Shanty Oilish]

168. I'm against killing healthy disabled people.

Especially on the say-so of a spouse who has publicly broken his word and reneged on his own court testimony. What I don't understand is how this viewpoint---protection for the vulnerable disabled---came to be a conservative rather than a liberal one.

[GiovanniC]

215. Oh, Pray Tell Which "Healthy Disabled Person" You Could POSSIBLY Be

Referring to.

I mean, I know we can rule out Terri Schiavo, who is about as "healthy disabled" as my ficus plant is a "calculus genius".

[Taxloss]

170. I love capitalism.

I am in awe of its elegance, energy and creativity. I just wish it didn't invlove greed, and that it worked better.

[flaminbats]

171. the flag should be worn as an article of clothing..

Is it okay to have a flag t-shirt with words written on it?

No, the flag should never be worn and no, the flag should never have marks or words written upon it. Section 8d (see below): "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel." Section 8g: "The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature."



here are some more wonderful conservative thoughts...
Love it or leave it. American by birth, southern by the grace of God. Jesus saves. United we stand. Forget HELL! Remember 9/11. Work with us now or for us later. Peace through superior firepower.




:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[doc03]

172. Pro-gun, Anti-abortion and balanced budget.

[kodi]

173. i believe in a meritocracy,

not identity politics

[Bouncy Ball]

175. Why is eating meat conservative?

And I think Clinton is ok, but he was too conservative for me. I don't think that makes me conservative, though, LOL.

But eating meat? I eat meat. That doesn't make me conservative in the LEAST.

How weird.

[bamademo]

176. I'm a Woman and a gun owner

I was raped and almost killed 20 years ago and they never caught him. If I had a gun when he broke in my window, he would be dead. He almost killed me. He hit me in the head repeatably with my weights from my weight bench. Thankfully, I was strong enough to kick him in the "naughty bits" so that he ran away. Now I have a gun and if someone breaks into my house, they are dead.

[Jesus Saves]

198. I'm very glad

you survived.

I own guns too. You never know when they might come in handy.

[tinonedown]

178. Probably public schools

Though this may fall in a shared viewpoint. I think math and science should consume 90%+ of a high schoolers time, not mixed in half and half with arts, football, etc.

[Bouncy Ball]

185. You left out English and history

or are those not important?

[NewJeffCT]

216. I somewhat agree

I really think we need stronger math & science in our schools. All of the math & science related programs at top colleges are filled with kids from India & China, it seems. As one Indian guy told me, people from India & China go through the meat grinder when it comes to math & science and are generally way ahead of American kids in these categories.

However, I think stronger programs are what is needed.

I think English & history (both US and world history!) should also be taught, as well as other liberal arts.

Above all, each student should be required to learn at least 1, if not 2, foreign languages, with at least one being Spanish, Hindu, Mandarin Chinese, German, Japanese or Russian.

[mvd]

181. I really don't have many

I think small deficits are ok if needed for implementation of things like an expansive health care plan. But I think deficits are harmful to the future generations. I would get more revenue from the rich while at the same time spending more. So I wouldn't be using the conservative way of getting there.

I'd like to see fewer abortions, even though I'm pro-choice.

I think Affirmative Action should be limited in scope.

I'm not a big basher of mainstream entertainment, though the media has become way too entertainment-oriented.

I support the right to own guns, even though I'm not pro-gun.

And I do eat meat.

I take liberal positions on just about everything else: taxes, health care, war and peace, enviornment, death penalty, gay marriage, separation of church and state, civil liberties, etc.

[Arkana]

182. Let's see...

I think ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra-leftists are kinda annoying(the kind who say that you're evil if you eat meat), but that's about it.

[Ladyhawk]

186. I have a few conservative beliefs.

-balanced budget (the neo-cons don't like this one)
-convicted felons should not be able to vote (this applies to violent crimes only)
-conservation of wildlife and wild areas (that's conservative...shouldn't it be?)
-I tend to be personally conservative about such things as the way I dress, although I do swear and have a tattoo. :)
-I have some trouble with the abortion issue. While I don't believe a zygote is a human being, I don't think third trimester abortions should be legal unless the mother's life is at stake. Of course, there are other issues that could be considered, but for the most part, I am against abortion after a fetus is viable outside the womb.

I hardly ever get into the abortion debate because I feel that to do so is a waste of my time. As of now, I don't want abortions to become illegal. That would be an unmitigated disaster under the Bush* regime.

What I would like to see is comprehensive sex education. The pubbies want to preach abstinence and disallow abortions of any kind. They can't have it both ways, but by god, they certainly are going to try it, aren't they? :(

[vSmith]

201. Re : "I have a few conservetive beliefs."

All these things you believe in. They are a means to a controversial end. You do know that you believe in a rudimentary conservative belief? Oh well, liberal, Democract, progressive...we all try to define ourselves, but the harder her try, the faster our definition of ourselves escape us.

[Ladyhawk]

220. Hey, I'm flexible. When shown evidence of truth, I cling to it.

I've gone from fundy to atheist and from Republican to Democrat. I am not a fan of dogma, so I don't cling to any particular belief system. I take each issue as it comes and try to make sense of it as part of the truth. I try to see if it fits with my other beliefs. I don't need anyone else's approval.

I follow the path of truth wherever it might lead. That means my beliefs will continue to change as I live out the rest of my days, unlabeled and dogma-free.

[Pushed To The Left]

187. I have some conservative viewpoints

but I have progressive reasons for them:

I oppose illegal immigration. Corporate conservatives love illegal immigration due to the cheap labor it provides. The Republicans have control over all branches of government, yet the borders and ports are still not secure. Finding a solution to the illegal immigration problem hurts cheap labor conservatism. I want to hurt cheap labor conservatism!

I oppose all forms of discrimination and/or preferences, whether it be by race, gender, sexual orientation, height, weight, hair color, etc. If it doesn't directly affect job performance, it's discrimination in my opinion. I think this is a progressive position. However, it conflicts with another progressive cause, affirmative action.

I am tough on crime, and up until recently was a staunch supporter of the death penalty. I have wavered on the death penalty because I worry about the possibility of a wrongly convicted person being executed. With a life sentence, such a person could be released if the mistake was discovered.

I think that law-abiding citizens should have the right to own a gun for self defense or hunting. I do support moderate gun control to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

I am intrigued by Jesse Ventura's idea of replacing the income tax with a consumption tax. However, I would want to make sure it didn't adversely affect low-income people. I know very little about it at this point.

I believe in a strong military. However, I think the military should only be used if absolutely necessary.

[The_Mule]

192. I read "God, Guns, & Rock N Roll" by Ted Nugent

and I *liked* it! Right now it's in my bookcase in between "Lies & The Lying Liars Who Tell Them" and "Dude, Where's My Country". :D

Personally, I don't believe in gay marriage. That's why I didn't have one. Do I think gay marriage should be outlawed because it wasn't "right" for me? Hell, no! I have no desire to think someone else is wrong for their personal choices, and I'll never support legislation to limit someone's rights. I'll continue to fight for gay marriage rights because I believe in personal liberty most of all. To me, that's the definition of a liberal, but what the hell do I know?

[alarimer]

195. I don't like gambling

I think the casinos are the devils' workshops.

I am kidding, sort of, but I don't approve of companies duping people into throwing away their hard-earned cash in the hopes of a big (but very unlikely) payoff.

I find casinos to be a slimy business. I don't believe it is harmless fun, not by a long shot. I don't like the way governments in some states have promoting them as a revenue stream instead of a fair and equitable tax system. I also don't like lotteries beacuse they really prey on the poor; basically lotteries are a regressive income tax.

[bunkerbuster1]

219. Hear, hear. And speaking of Zell Miller...

seriously, this is about Zell. I kept hearing, when I moved down to Joe-Jah from the Northeast, that Senator Zell Miller really wasn't such a bad guy back when he was Gov. -- "after all," the conventional wisdom went, "he got us the Hope Scholarship" which funds college tuition for anyone who can maintain a B average in high school, along with pre-K.

Yeah, GA's got Zell's Hope Scholarship--which is funded solely through lottery funds. That pisses me off--we have a bunch of white middle/upper-middle class guys with their bass boats and dirt bikes and any number of other toys purchased with disposable income that they WOUDLN'T HAVE if it weren't for the fact that poor black folks are buying lottery tickets to pay for the white middle/upper middle class folks' redneck kids.

I know it's not as black and white (pun intended) as that but it ain't far from the truth.

[Deja Q]

196. On the contrary, Clinton was the greatest president the repubs ever had!

[BlueIris]

200. Alright, I've got one: debt is bad; spend and invest conservatively.

[auburngrad82]

202. I think that the government should be running on a balanced budget

I think that's fiscally conservative.

I think that we shouldn't be paying subsidies to industries such as tobacco that are harmful to people's health.

I'm very liberal on social issues. More conservative fiscally. At least I think being responsible with the government's money is conservative and the GOP is anything BUT conservative with our money.

[noonwitch]

205. Welfare reform-I don't like the way most conservatives do it, however

I do think that welfare should be a temporary solution, for the most part. It's no way to live well, and it does contribute in a major way to problems like deadbeat parents and illegitimacy. All it does for the most part is keep food in the fridge and the rent paid. And it doesn't always do that.

The problem with most republican plans are that they don't involve education and job training, the things that would really help people in the long term.

[union_maid]

206. Well. I eat meat

I never thought of that as conservative, though. Although it's true that most of the vegetarians I know are liberal, most of the liberals I know eat at least some meat. I'm not counting that.

I'm very skeptical of assisted suicide or euthanasia. It has nothing to do with religious views and everything to do with the fact that I clearly envision a society where it could be considered rude to live beyond the point where you're useful and really offensive to live after you've become very expensive. I'm picturing a person making that decision for themselves with "concerned" relatives encouraging them to take the early out before exhausting their inheritance. I can't support that position because I'm afraid that when people are most vulnerable they'd get pushed over the edge.

[AP]

208. I like capitalism and commerce and enterprise.

[OnionPatch]

209. Here goes

I'm pro-gun and anti-abortion to an extent. When I say I'm anti-abortion, I don't mean I think they should be outlawed. I'm anti-adultery too but I'm not for anti-adultery laws. I do believe the fetus is a life and I do think abortions are too commonplace in our society. That may sound conservative but my solution sure isn't: I think unwed pregnancy should not have the sort of stigma that makes a woman feel she needs to abort. Birth control should be much better and adoption much easier. If poverty were wiped out, and young girls raised with more self-esteem, that would stop most abortions.
Other than those two issues, I'm a raging, tree-hugging leftie.

[ben_packard]

213. Hollywood has convinced me on this one

I won't be becoming becoming a vegan any time soon, but I agree that it is in some ways conservative to eat meat. People using arguments such as 'it's natural' and 'we've always done it' kind of proves Hollywood's point as well.

[GiovanniC]

214. I Like to Feast on the Flesh of the Innocent

[adigal]

218. Way too much sex/innuendo on regular TV

I DO monitor what my 14, 13 and 10 year olds watch, and I don't allow TV on during the week. But even the commercials during some regular TV programming - and I was shocked at how much can be on TV (I think it was CSI) now, that wasn't allowed on a few years ago (I hardly EVER watch, so I don't know what is on - my fault)

I think regular TV should not have nudity, and swearing for the sake of swearing. There can be very valuable and entertaining television without either.