Anyone know about Wallbuilders???

[Larkspur]

It was mentioned in a LTTE in today's The Day -- View Founding Fathers' Religious Perspectives http://www.theday.com/eng/web/news/re.aspx?re=DAF2AE71-DB3E-4101-B0C7-554BB712BA69.

This letter is in response to letters that have been placed in The Day about God in our U.S. Constitution and government. Was religion a big factor when the Declaration of Independence was signed? Were religious principles to be followed or allowed in our Constitution?

The answer to these questions can be found in the character of the men and women involved in the founding of our great nation. If those who have written letters to The Day with their own personal ideas would like to find out, then they need to watch our program “The Egalitarian Connection” at 7 p.m. Saturdays from April 2-23 on the Eastern Connecticut public-access cable station Channel 24.

We will be airing a series of four very informative videos from the Wallbuilders organization, presented by its founder, David Barton. These powerful videos should answer all the questions of which religionist principles are to be followed and what would happened to our nation if they were not. And also just what kind of men our Founding Fathers were as to their religious beliefs and character.

The viewers can find out about the “bullet-proof” George Washington and many more of the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence. The titles of these videos are: “America's Godly Heritage,” “The Spirit of the American Revolution,” “Keys To Good Government,” and “Education and the Founding Fathers.”

I found Wallbuilders web site at http://www.wallbuilders.com. The founder is a grad of Oral Roberts, so it's definitely a Xtian fundie site. He writes to promote the concept that the Founding Fathers built a Christian nation and argues against claims to the contrary, like the 1796 Treaty of Tripoli, which specifically said that the US is not a Christian nation. Does anyone know of a progressive site that battles Wallbuilders?

[FormerDittoHead]

1. Thom Hartmann has well written on this topic - other links

Thom Hartmann has written a whole book about Jefferson from a progressive perspective - worth looking for.

Thom Hartmann re: 10 Commandments and the framers:
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0303-30.htm

another source of quotes...
http://earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html
John Adams:
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"

James Madison:
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

Thomas Paine:
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my church. "

[mcscajun]

2. Here's one

Americans United for Separation of Church and State http://www.au.org/site/PageServer

Here's their article on David Barton: http://blog.au.org/2004/07/david_bartons_p.html

and here's another group:
Freedom From Religion Foundation
http://www.ffrf.org/index.php

[Bridget Burke]

3. That radical journal, "Christian Ethics Today" has this to say....

With charts, books, graphs, and videos, David Barton is out to remake America. For years he has been indefatigably crisscrossing the United States, hawking to millions of Americans a simple yet dangerous message, that “separation of church and state is a myth.” And, unfortunately, people are buying his product.

No single Religious Right figure has done more to undermine church support for church-state separation than David Barton,” said Joe Conn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. “He has done untold damage to the separationist idea. From his headquarters in Aledo, Texas, Barton has become the guru of Religious Right antiseparationism. He has turned his little home business into a full-scale antiseparationist industry, with 25 employees helping him spread his material.”

www.christianethicstoday.com/Issue/003/Wallbuilders%20or%20Mythbuilders%20By%20Nicholas%20P%20Miller_003_17_.htm

Barton is part of the Dominionist/Christian Reconstructionist gang that's been politicizing religion.

[FormerDittoHead]

4. More points for your consideration...

...and this isn't "proof" one way or another, but I would ask you to consider this common sense "proof".

Without spending the time to pollute my mind by going through the stuff the Wallbuilders have to present, I would bet dollars to donuts that the number of direct quotes (outside of the use of the generic word "God" in the Declaration of Independence and the use of the Bible for taking oaths) they would present from the framers to make their case is small, and their argument is based entirely upon inference and their own biased. They won't be able to use anything the framers DID in the early days. Where are there crosses (or other religious symbols) on our currency or government documents?

The framers were quite articulate in what they thought. I seriously doubt that they would be able to drag up more than one or two quotes (from those in the periphery, I'm sure) which directly state in clear language that the state and the church should somehow be connected versus the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the people in the center of the constitution's writing.

The problem with the founding fathers is that they were so wishy-washy to begin with. They proclamed that all are created equal, but enacted clear rules for owning slaves and gave no voting rights for women. They talked about right to life, yet had capital punishment. They professed the virtues of democracy, yet did not give the common man direct voting rights. The bill of rights in and of themselves were the product of compromise over strong disagreements. The whole argument that they were somehow endowed by some imbued wisdom and knowledge, in complete agreement, lockstep in vision is hogwash.

The strength of the constitution has been its vaugeness and the ability of our society through the years to see in it what they have chosen to see. The strength of our country has been not with the constitution or it's "values" but with our natural resources and our ability to support the amount of growth way off the curve of other developed nations in Western Europe - a curve, I might add, that is declining...

[Larkspur]

5. Thank you for all your help. Here's the LTTE I sent to The Day

FYI, my surname is the same as David Barton's, but my family is not related to him, thank Goddess!!

My LTTE is as follows...
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Wallbuilders’ http://www.wallbuilders.com/ founder David Barton , who is no relation to me, has a history of misquoting our Founding Fathers, in order to promote his brand of Puritanism. See Separation of Church and State web page “Misquoting by the Religious Right” http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/misqidx.htm for a list of rebuttals to David Barton’s arguments.

In his article “Wallbuilders or Mythbuilders” http://www.christianethicstoday.com/Issue/003/Wallbuilders%20or%20Mythbuilders%20By%20Nicholas%20P%20Miller_003_17_.htm , Nicholas P Miller says,

With charts, books, graphs, and videos, David Barton is out to remake America. …he has been … hawking to millions of Americans a simple yet dangerous message, that “separation of church and state” is a ‘myth’”…

A careful look at that material … shows that “Mythbuilders” would describe it more accurately than “Wallbuilders” for the essence of his message rests on eight historical fallacies regarding the Constitution.

In reason #8 of his address to the Virginia General Assembly titled “Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments” http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu/sacred/madison_m&r_1785.html , James Madison says it best about mixing religion and politics, "What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."


Note to editor: I’m a member of Killingly’s Democratic Town committee and a 1983 graduate from the University of Notre Dame with a BA in History.

FYI, in a July 21, 2004 article, “Republican Revival?: David Barton's Partisan Pulpit Tour” http://blog.au.org/2004/07/david_bartons_p.html , the Americans United for Separation of Church and State also criticized Barton for politicizing religion.