Violent Video Games

[Pawel K]

Who here is actually against violent video games such as Grand Theft Auto?

I personally think anyone that tries to regulate this is out of their mind. I enjoy a good video game once in a while, I don't think anyone has to the right to tell me what I can and can not play. It is also my decision if I want to allow my kids to play these games. I generally supported Hillary but she is jumping on the bandwagon of being against violant video games which really upsets me. What say you?

Here is the quote from Hillary:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12675659%255E2703,00.html

"Children are playing a game that encourages them to have sex with prostitutes and then murder them," the US senator and former first lady said."

[evil_orange_cat]

1. its a game for chrissakes!

I hate politicians like my governor Rod Blagojevich who try to use these issues to pander to social conservatives.

[Chovexani]

14. Unfortunately it's not just conservatives

You've also got a fair portion of the "We know what's best for you" crowd on our side that want to ban/regulate games too. I get tired of people questioning my committment to feminism because I happen to enjoy a bit of escapist fantasy now and then. :eyes:

I love video games, including the GTAs, but I'm an adult and I should be able to purchase what I want. The hilarious part? The only times I've ever been carded buying M-rated games were both at GameStop and they were both games I got for free (they always have buy 2 used get 1 free specials there). A fact not lost on the clerks and we all had a chuckle about it.

I let my 11 year old cousin play GTA3 and Vice City when he comes to my house. But he's an unusually bright and well-adjusted kid. His slightly younger brother is easily led and dumber than a box of rocks, and already has delinquent type tendencies so I let him nowhere near those games. The bottom line is parents just need to know what their kids are into. Gamers with kids are some of the most well-informed active parents I know, simply because they know what's going on with the kids. Ratings simply aren't enough. Castlevania: Lament of Innocence (one of those freebies I got at Gamestop) is M-rated and so is San Andreas but I'd have no compunction letting a kid play the former. The latter, it depends on the kid. I'm a grown ass woman and Eternal Darkness (another M rated game) creeped me the fuck out; there's no way in hell I'd let a little kid play it. People need to realize that video games are not strictly a "kid" thing; the average age of gamers today is something like 20+ and many of the games coming out today are aimed toward that market. This is the same problem with anime; people think that because they're cartoons they're automatically for kids, and all of a sudden parents freak out when they catch their kid watching something like the Rurouni Kenshin OVAs. The ignorance is astounding.

Parents need to stop spoiling kids too. I can't tell you how many Christmases I've worked in retail electronics where I've seen parents literally drop $300-400 on a console and games for like a 9 year old kid. When I was that age I had an NES and I was lucky if I got a game or two for birthdays or maybe holidays, the rest I had to save up for and buy for myself. Now I see kids begging their parents--and getting--the latest portable, brand new $50 games, etc. I went to Gamestop the other day to pick up some used games on special and I saw a kid literally throw a screaming tantrum because Mom wouldn't get him God of War. This kid couldn't have been more than like 10. Now if you don't know, God of War just came out and it's a kick ass game but it is extremely violent and it is most definitely for adults. Mom was frazzled and clueless and I let her know. The kid shot me a dirty look and I told him he ought to be lucky his mom was even buying him games, when people my age had to buy them on allowance or running paper routes and what not when we were kids.

They can legislate this out the ass but what it boils down to is parents needing to be better parents. I just hope for the sake of the creativity of the industry that we don't get some bullshit forced on us like the Comics Code. Comics STILL haven't recovered from that.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. I agree

The parent has to parent their kid. My brother is a huge fan of anime and the Japanese cartoons. I'm not really but I like a few stuff. According to my brother all the anime is majorly psychological stuff and they of course like violence. In Japan you have to remember they have a different rating system. Over here something rated "R" is rated PG or PG-13 over there. We don't get video games very much here either. I get one or two for Christmas and sometimes my birthday my Dad will buy me a present. Parents should read the reviews of the game's before buying them. My cousin used to be pretty spoiled when he was younger (he's getting better as he's getting older) and he'd have so many video games. I've seen a few of the one's he has and they're pretty decent kid anime games.

[bryant69]

2. It depends on what she says

If she tried to actually outlaw such games, that's kind of nonsense. And the games already have stickers to tell whether they are appropriate for children or not. On the other hand, I think she is allowed to have the opinion that some games do place a low premium on human life. I guess it depends on how far she is willing to go to stop such video games.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Divameow77]

3. I'm not against them but

there are certain games I won't let my 7 year old play. My husband has games I won't let him play around my 7 year old. That's my choice as his mother, but I could care less if they are around, I think even teenagers are smart enough to know the difference between real life and fantasy and right and wrong, if they don't then it's up to the parents to do something about it.

[ohio_liberal]

4. Why isn't the sticker warning enough?

It's good enough for music isn't it?

[Tux]

5. Stupid

I played them but to me, they get boring over time. GTA is tired. However, people still think of video games for kids when most of them are bought by adults. People that don't understand that are acting on ignorance. APA.org wants to remove them completely since they can affect children but their studies are flawed and uses a lot of emotion to be convincing.

Overall, I say leave them alone, have parents read the rating system, and let the clerk tell a parent that GTA isn't for their 2 yo. then the parent buys it. Solution: educate parents and have them be responsible for raising their kids for a change.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. To me

If I was a parent I would be really curious as to why a young adult was buying a "kid" game. That would send some bells of with me personally.

[Tux]

43. Mmmm OK

Considering most games are bought and played by people in thier 20's and 30's, plus GTA has semi-graphic violence (love the blood tracks after running someone down in a car), and most games are made for adults and you consider them for kids? What century are you living in?

[Solon]

49. I don't really understand the insinuation there....

Kid games such as Mario Brothers, Bubble Bobble(Puzzle Bobble), and other types, like Tetris(Best thing to come out of Communism) are harmless, I buy or download free games of those types all the time. That's because there are fun or challenging, been a gamer all my life, playing Moon Patrol and Pac-Man as a kid, and I still can't get enough of those games. At the same time, I'll buy games such as Resident Evil, or GTA to blow off steam by blowing off the heads of zombies or gangsters, not saying that it is appropriate for kids to play those particular games, but its simply an outlet. I much prefer that outlet be done in a virtual world rather than the real world.

[Maestro]

6. Kids have been using simulated violence in their games

since the beginning of time. The only difference now is that some are more graphic, but still it is simulated violence. A child who does something because of a video game has other, more deeper, problems. It is not the game's fault.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. I wear two hats in this

I am a player and I am with you, it is YOUR right to play whatever you want and to make an informed decision.

I am also a paper and pencil game designer (so the graphics suck) Some of these games the imagery is very violent. Whenever I talk to parents, espeically parents of kids I know are not quite ready to handle it, I urege them to screen the material before they let little Johnny get a go at it... and this is especially the case with an RPG... where kids have to be mature enough to be able to distinguish between make belief and reality.

Moreover some of the artwork, thogh I think it is great and gives the product a whole mood... you should see some of the artwork. This is why I always urge parents to screen any material before their kids get their paws on it... but goverhment regulation is just insane.

This is just the right and Hillary is jumping on it, to score points, again telling us how stupid we are and that we need to be cotnrolled by the government. You khow that same government they distrust otherwise.

If they get their way you will have to ask permision to reproduce, read, work, and die..

[Pawel K]

8. Sorry Should Have Added Hillary's Quote

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12675659%255E2703,00.html

"Children are playing a game that encourages them to have sex with prostitutes and then murder them," the US senator and former first lady said."

[andyhappy]

9. I think those games suck

I dont think there should be a law against them, but what the fuck?

have you SEEN some of those games? There is no way that I would want my kids to play those 'games'. they are sick!

give me pac-man anyday of the week

[Chovexani]

15. You have the right to that opinion

I appreciate the fact that you take responsibility for your kids and don't want to turn it over to the gov't.

I can't say this enough though: GAMES ARE NOT STRICTLY FOR KIDS. The average gamer is over 20 and a majority of the games coming out are aimed toward that market, plain and simple.

This hobby still has the stigma of being a kid-oriented thing, just like comics, when the reality is far from it.

Education is sorely needed.

[andyhappy]

19. you are right...

but come on ...video games are like 'crack' to kids. They can't get enough.

I dont have kids (yet!) but my brothers kids are addicted to those things!

and you know how it is when you are young. The stuff you can't do is the stuff you want to do the most!

I really do think it says a lot about our society that games like that are so popular! and that goes for ANY age!

[InfoMinister]

42. I Don't Think It Says Much of Anything That That We Don't Already Know

GTA: VC = Scarface and other gangster films.

Mortal Kombat = violent kung-fu films

Resident Evil = George Romero zombie films.

Really, it's basically the same thing we've already seen before at the cinema in interfactive form.

[The_Mule]

22. Pac-man?

That is way too violent. He actually *eats* his victims.

Sick, just sick.

}(

[Solon]

50. That reminds me...

Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a dark room munching pills and listening to repetitive music. -- old rave scene joke

[flvegan]

10. I see more violence coming from Hollywood, and it's more realistic.

Most video games (I'm a PC gamer, not PS or XBox) are almost cartoonish. If I had kids, sure, I wouldn't let them play Punisher or Halo, etc simply because they'd probably have nightmares. I definitely wouldn't tell anyone that these games should be banned. The current governor of California was involved in some pretty graphic gore-fests in his day in Hollywood. Let Congress use him as point leader against tinsel town and see how far it gets.

[misanthrope]

11. I saw two kids...

...pick up fallen branches and then proceed to pretend the sticks were swords as they "fought" each other.

Somebody call Capitol Hill quick! We better get some legislation started to rein in those trees!

[donsu]

12. usually to win these games the player has to kill someone(s) or

something(s).

what does this teach people?

it's ignorant to say it's only a game.

[Pawel K]

13. To win a driving game I usually have to run into a number of things

does that mean I should be out on the road? Come on get real, if I can handle watching people get shot on Fox, NBC, ABC, CBS in primetime I think I can handle a video game.

[Chovexani]

16. Hehe

Hell, if you're going to use that argument, there's no way in hell I should have a license with the way I drive in Vice City. I drive on the damn sidewalk in that game. :P

[flvegan]

18. Jeez, I club random folks on the street to build up my cash reserves.

I suck, too.

[flvegan]

17. To win at Monopoly you have to be a cutthroat real estate investor

looking to drive his/her opponents into foreclosure, bankruptcy and "the end" of the game.

What does this teach people?

[Divameow77]

20. When I was a kid my father

would watch anything around me. Rambo, Rocky, I think I saw Carrie and Cujo when I was 9. My mother was so mad when she found out he took me to see Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom at the drive in at 7 or 8. I don't think I have ever torn a beating heart out of a mans chest.
To say playing a game is promoting sex with a prostitute is just crazy talk to me.
Video games are like movies to me, there are certain ones my 7 year old won't watch or play. That's MY decision.

[seabeyond]

21. my question, when degrading violating murdering woman

wont be entertainment anymore

[Pawel K]

30. who are you to judge entertainment?

Might as well ban all music videos, movies, or anything else you don't think is entertainment.

[seabeyond]

33. this is like

the stupidest comment i have yet to see on this board

[Pawel K]

55. ok

I'm off to go kill some prostitues in GTA, excuse me.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. I guess with me

it depends on the parent and the child. If the child is a teenager then I wouldn't care. If the child was under teenage years I wouldn't let them get near one of those games. I think it's so funny how though the republicans go off about tv, movies, music but you never hear them talk about video games. At least I don't. :shrug:

[bvar22]

24. To win at chess,

you must spend a great deal of energy and thought in planning the assination of the other sides leaders.

"Children are playing a game that encourages them to have sex with prostitutes and then murder them,"
What game is Hillary talking about ? I'm a PC Gamer and have never seen or heard of this game.

I am currently replaying Vice City in preparation for the new release this summer of GTA San Andreas.

[UdoKier]

25. I hate them. They are disgusting.

I'm completely in favor of ratings systems on these games.

It's a shame that parents let their kids play games that glorify sociopathic behavior.

My kids have no games, except for a few educational ones on the computer.

Most kids I know DON'T play these games, though. Most kids around here still play outside.

I don't much care for Hillary, but this is not one of the reasons. Regardless of one's opinion on the subject, this is an extremely trivial subject, anyway.

[FreedomAngel82]

28. They do have rating systems

They do. I still buy games here and there and my brother does and they have ratings on them. Like Teen, Mature, etc.

[XemaSab]

29. It's a problem with society,

not a problem with the games.

Some of my roommates and I went out to see the Matrix. One of my roommates was from Bosnia (Sarajevo), and she JUST COULN'T WATCH IT. She had to leave. It was WAY too violent.

Who has the problem here? Arijana, because she's really sensitive to gun violence, or me, because I'm desensitized to gun violence?

Either way around, I don't think the government should be in the business of censorship. Ratings are fine to help parents make good decisions, but if parents don't want to be parents, then that's not the government's job.

The other day I was listening to Kevin & Bean (morning radio show) and they were talking about TV censorship, and this dude called in all irritated that he had left his little kid watching SpongeBob and SpongeBob had called someone "stupid" and now his kid was calling people "stupid." Kevin & Bean were like, "this is ridiculous! your standards are SO low you're wanting to censor SpongeBob???"

Someone's always going to be irritated about something.

[tx_dem41]

31. You can be against the government regulating them, and still not...

like them.

[ThorsHammer]

32. I don't mind the games, but also don't mind the ratings system

Parents should watch what their children play, and stores should not sell the games to younger kids. Right now the rating system seems like more of a guide than a regulation.

[Endangered Specie]

34. With all the shit thats going on in the world...

do we really need to be worrying about video games?

Oh wait, I forgot, steroids is more important </sarcsam>.

Kids across the world play these games, and arent nearly as violent as Americans(see Bowling for Columbine).

[bleedingheart]

35. Another example of legislative parenting for the lazy citizens

As a parent, I wouldn't let my kid play it. When they are 18 and old enough to pay for this crap, then they can play what they want.

I have two kids...and we do not own any X-Box, Nintendo...or anything like that...

[_TJ_]

36. I see no harm in them

But if they are very violent I have no objection to them
being 18+ only.

[redherring]

37. If they're kids, they shouldn't be playing these types of games

Games like Grand Theft Auto, Ninja Gaiden,Doom, Quake, God of War, etc are violent games. These are for adults. As an adult, I have the right to play these games. In fact I enjoy them.
But we need to watch our kids. If you're under 18, it just depends upon what your parents think. Me, I won't allow my kids to play these sorts of games. Not till they're 18 anyway.

[Lone_Wolf]

38. something tells me she'll overlook 'America's Army'...

A violent video game used as a recruiting tool by the Army and paid for by our tax dollars.

[Lindacooks]

39. What, people can't get the idea to rape and murder without these

games?

That's patently ridiculous. The crimes of rape and murder, along with prostitution, if you want to call it a crime, have been around since the beginning of time.

[trudyco]

40. Yep we should reign back corporate greed

I'm all for pushing back on corporations bent on greed no matter what. Kids TV shows and games that are marketed to kids and TV during kid viewing hours should be set at a higher standard than adult shows/games.

Money isn't everything. It isn't OK to pollute our world or sabotage drug studies to let drugs on the market that aren't ready for prime time, or poison our food and water in the name of profits. It isn't OK to bombard kids with disrespectful language, or role models of kids acting disrespectful towards adults, or portraying adults as all idiots, or violence or sex. Adult video games should be treated like cigarettes. They aren't advertised towards kids and you need ID to get one.

I don't know if I'd put this in the highest priority considering all the scary stuff shrub is emitting. Ms. Clinton sure is trying to get in the center, isn't she?

[slutticus]

41. GTA does not advocate the murdering of prostitutes.

It advocates protecting your prostitutes.

[wadestock]

44. There is no compelling argument for the spread of violence....

in any way shape or form.

Sorry pal.

When the imagination can yield infinitely more creative and constructive games....no dice....it just doesn't make sense.

I was in a video store...overhearing a few kids talk about some game as I was helping my 13 year old pick out some game a while back.

They talked about the reality of killing someone...actually FEELING the knife go into their body.

Kids shooting kids in school, et al...sorry.
The violence in America sucks...there's no way to rationalize your way around it.

I was home sick for 2 days recently, watched 5 or 6 movies on HBO, Cinemax etc and I think the level of violence, the infatuation with guns, shooting, etc is just totally fucking boring and uncreative.

Decadence, greed, violence, and corruption are the new cultural movements completely out of hand in this country.

[KittyWampus]

45. Playing Violent "Games" Regularly SendsYour Subconciousness

signals much stronger than mere protestations that you want peace in the world.

If you don't want violence then don't feed it to your Mind.

Violent video games poison the Well of our Collective Unconscious.

Anyone who claims to want Peace in the world and yet spends time at home playing violent video games is a hypocrite.

They aren't just 'games'. They are potent methods of sending suggestions to the Subconscious.

[greatbubba]

46. GTA actually encourages postive experiences.

It encourages:

1. Courage- The need to stand up for yourself if attacked.

2. Leadership Skills- Be able to lead. Take ownership over your problems.

3. Social Interactions -Shows you how to be polite to the ladies, take them to dinner, give them flowers.

4. Responsibility - When you accumulate money you learn to save and only buy what you need.

5. Business Practices - Allows you to make sound business investments with minimumal risks.

6. Teamwork - Shows how to work as a team.

7. Respect -

[Rapcw]

47. I've played a lot of those "violent" videogames

And last I checked, I haven't had an inclination or want to murder anyone.

[derby378]

48. From someone who finished two GTA games...

Yes, I think the GTA games are too violent and contain too much mature subject matter for kids. No, I don't think government regulation of these video games is the way to go here.

It seems apparent that Hillary has never played any of the GTA games. Yes, you can have sex with hookers. Yes, you can gun them down afterwards. But no, the game does not encourage you to do so. It's a little thing called "free will."

This is one aspect of the GTA games I find interesting - when you enter Liberty City, Vice City, or San Andreas, the only morality in the game is what you bring into the game with you. I find myself usually taking a "live and let live" approach unless I'm on a mission that requires me to kill someone.

But, above all else, it's just a game. It has some scathing social commentary if you listen to the talk-radio stations, but it's still a game.

[spindoctor]

51. Tom and Jerry, Roadrunner, Donald Duck, Ivanhoe....

These are just some of the extremely violent TV shows I grew up on.

Considering the fact that I turned out generally peace-loving, I am not too concerned about the effect that video games have on my children.

The Military Channel on the other hand.....

[entanglement]

52. These games were never meant to be played by children.

IMHO it should be as hard for children to buy violent video games as cigarettes or porn or alcohol. There should be prominent labels to help parents make informed decisions about game content. While I have played some 'violent' games, I'd never consider GTA. At the same time, I don't think its fair to prevent *adults* from entertaining themselves in any way they choose. It might also be argued that games merely reflect violence in society and do not promote it.

[adwon]

53. I only oppose one thing in regard to GTA

Don't drive your car right after playing it. Not a good idea, no. Remember that sidewalks are not roads in real life. :puffpiece:

[parhelion]

54. The Bigger Issue, IMHO...

Just thought I'd add the perspective of an older gamer. While I do feel that Hillary should be looking at some far more pressing issues, I've seen threads on this topic on both a gaming message board and an electronic musician's message board, and surprisingly, I really haven't seen anyone mention what I feel is the real problem with games like GTA and their ilk. What amazes me is that it's considered socially acceptable to want to play games in which you portray a sociopathic criminal. How did this become "cool"?

Thanks to the inexplicable popularity of "gangsta" rap and thug culture, there's an entire generation that has made gutter vernacular like "pimp" and "ho" into mainstream "hip" slang. And just to be fair, I'm equally disgusted by the idolization of mafioso with crap like the Sopranos, Godfather, etc.

To me there is a big difference between playing a violent game like Resident Evil and one like GTA. In Resident Evil or something similar, you're the "good guy", defending yourself and others by killing zombies and inhuman monsters. Even in an ultra-violent game like The Punisher, you're killing low-life criminals... not that it makes it necessarily right, but at least there's some moral justification behind it. In GTA, you ARE the criminal - car-jacking, pimping, murdering and drug dealing. Hurting innocent people, not rescuing or protecting them. Where is the appeal in this? I just don't get it. And no one can tell me that it doesn't have a negative impact on the morality and psychology of a teenager, let alone the countless children whose moronic parents let them play stuff like this.

In my day (and I know I'm sounding old here), I can't recall anyone who actually WANTED to play the bad-guy. And lest anyone think that I'm some self-righteous pro-censorship right-wing fundamentalist, this is coming from someone who was involved in the original late 70s punk rock scene (Jello Biafra is still a hero to me) and who was reading Marx at age 13.

Am I the only left-winger who is alarmed by the moral decay in our culture? I just can't think of another time in history when the idolization of criminals and thugs was so prevalent. I guess it's not so surprising when the government of America is headed by one of the biggest crime families in the world.

[Pawel K]

56. but you are looking at it like the games and the rap created this

the fact is we created it. Do you think gangster rap or these violent games would have ever had any success if people didn't enjoy it? I strongly doubt there is this moral decay in our culture, I didn't grow up in the 70s but I know many that did who talk about all the pot, all the coke, all the sex, and all the other crap that went on during that time which wasn't much different than it is now; our culture is simply a lot more honest about it now.

[trudyco]

58. The USA has become meaner - looking at commercials at what

passes for humor and entertainment we have just become meaner, very critical of others. Violent in our humor. There is a certain amount of desensitization that is just freaky.

I've stopped watching mainstream TV so now I can't think of examples.

[Occulus]

57. I have been an avid gamer for twenty-two years.

I remember the days when the Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and Space Invaders arcade cabinets were full of quarters and there were lines of people waiting to play them. Video games have been immensely popular since the days of Pong.

When I got my first home console, the Atari 2600, everyone on my street wanted to play on it. I ended up with about forty or fifty games, many of which I still have. I'm sitting here looking at that console itself, which as far as I know still works perfectly.

All along the way, I always had a very strong understanding of the difference between fantasy and reality, and I think that's the key to video games having or not having an effect on a given child. Parents need to approach the things "not real" very carefully and make certain the child knows these things are not reality-based.

One problem may be that home consoles have moved video games outside the public venue- the video arcade- and into the home, which while being very much more convenient and a whole lot better value also increases the chance that a child will see and/or play a violent game without their parents' knowledge or approval.

That, and US arcades... well, they suck. Let's face it. Home consoles offer a much better alternative.

Just for once, I'd like to see someone make a game set during, say, the Crusades, in which one plays a "heretic" hunting/being hunted by the Church. Or, perhaps, a game set here in the "near US future" where the hate has finally boiled over and you play someone of one of a number of persecuted and hunted groups trying to get together to survive.

Oh, wouldn't that just throw some undershorts into knots?

I think the gaming industry should make more nonviolent games, but the problem is many times the nonviolent games are also crap games. There are notable exceptions; unfortunately, these are few and far between.

Also notice how "their" focus has shifted from violence in games like Mortal Kombat and Tekken et al to games like GTA, which are really RPGs of sorts. Role-playing games have been a target since the old D&D days.

I guess I'm confused because video games and video gaming have left me relatively untouched :shrug: But then.... I've always know video games are fantasy, and nothing more.