Falwell is one of the reasons why we are all at each other's throats here

[_TJ_]

He, and others like him, have created a perverted abomination that
goes by the same name as Christianity - yet is ANYTHING but.

He has turned Christian against Christian and atheist against Christian in the wider world.

His perversion has even spread its tentacles to DU, resulting in
even the most liberal and progressive Christians being seen with
a jaundiced eye by many.

Edit: I have no great wish to see him die, or for his family
to suffer, but...

I have no sympathy for him.

[dbt]

1. Damn. Straight.

[tubbacheez]

2. On the plus side, I've been able to learn a great deal about...

... other people's throats.


The more we experience together, and learn from each other, the more our movement will solidify. Early losses were just as much our collective failure as Falwell's own success.

And nothing lasts forever. The tide is slowly turning. We just have to keep on keepin' on.

[Az]

3. So how do you undo the damage he has created?

It isn't by preaching the same hatred he taught.

[Zenlitened]

6. Wishing for a world without Jerry Falwell in it is NOT hatred.

Feeling relief at the departure of someone or something harmful is NOT the moral equivalent of wishing ill upon someone simply because you disagree with their economic principles, for example.

[Az]

15. Thats a very fine line you are trying to tread

This is not quite as simple a case as many are trying to make it out to be. If we step too far into embracing hatred of others because we differ it is difficult to set a limit. If its ok to rejoice in Falwell's passing does that mean its ok to rejoice in a disaster hitting his production studio and killing everyone there? Does it mean that all those that look up to Falwell are expendable?

Where does it end?

[Zenlitened]

22. I think your line of argument is fatally flawed.

It is entirely possible to acknowledge that the world will be a better place absent Jerry Falwell, without descending the slippery slope of actively wishing ill upon others around him.

[Az]

30. Perhaps

I am not so fixed on my position that I cannot consider change.

[Zenlitened]

36. I really don't know what your statement means in this context.

:shrug:

[Az]

41. Clarification

We both agree that a world without Falwell is arguably better than one with. He has been the spider at the center of much that is wrong with this nation. But the only point I have been trying to make is that rejoicing and mocking him in such a situation is a negative in our larger goals. It makes us appear as ghouls in the eyes of the moderates and the right. This makes it increasingly difficult for us to convince them of any of our issues.

[_TJ_]

42. But hey!

Don't we have to take our jollies where we can get them? :hide:

[Az]

54. Tempting

Very tempting in Falwell's case. But I want to win. And appearing to be a ghoul just damages our case before the public.

[Zenlitened]

44. Okay, I see. I agree that there's no need to be nasty, and that...

... in fact, it can be counterproductive.

But I don't think we should feel constrained from saying, frankly and matter-of-factly, that the world is a better place without him in it.

[tx_dem41]

8. Apparently, that's the plan of a majority of DUers today.

They have chosen to let the hatefulness that Falwell has sewn consume them as well. I guess, in that scenario, he wins.

[Ripley]

9. Oh give me a fucking break!

There are more posts praying for him and condeming his actions, not his medical condition than those gleefully hoping he kicks.

Stop it right now with that shit.

[frankly_fedup2]

16. Pretty planet. Where did you find it???? (nt)

[Ripley]

19. It's a triple eclipse on Jupiter...

I found it here: http://hubblesite.org/gallery/

I believe I found this particular pic in a news brief not a gallery, but there are lots of great images!

[frankly_fedup2]

59. OMG that is beautiful. And to think they aren't going to keep the

Hubble Telescope up-to-date because it is too expensive. I say find the 9 Billion that they lost in Iraq, the $2+ Billion the Pentagon doesn't know where it went. Funny accounting, huh.

Thanks Ripley. Have a good one friend.

[tx_dem41]

18. Unless you feel you have the power to stop me from posting,

I won't stop countering the Falwell-like hatefulness I have seen on these threads today. I'm happy to see some members displaying some progressive-empathy. I wish more were.

[Misunderestimator]

38. You consistently defend the downtrodden right....

it's really quite humorous.

[tx_dem41]

47. If you read my posts, I have expressed sympathy and empathy ..

...for his family, having recently gone through a similar experience with a loved one. Can you point out where I have "defended the downtrodden right"? Or are you just making that up?

What I went through with my family member was both emotional and excruciating. I don't wish that on any other people who have loved ones that are being hospitalized for a serious matter. Do you feel I should apologize for that?

[Misunderestimator]

49. I'm not referring to this subject alone

but many others... and no, I don't have the impetus to look them up. I don't envy anyone going through this either, but I wouldn't care more for Falwell, with all the evil he has done, if he were related to me.

[tx_dem41]

50. Okay. Then, I can only assume that you are making this up...

...and making a personal attack. Dang, if you are going to make a personal attack, at least have the guts and the to back it up.

[Misunderestimator]

51. Ha... not taking the bait...

but I will be sure to keep a log from this point on. Ta ta.

[tx_dem41]

52. Cool...

I have a potential stalker.

Be sure to catch me when I am advocating such right-wing issues as slavery reparations, gay-rights, etc. I can't wait for more personal attacks on these things.

[Misunderestimator]

57. Ha

[_TJ_]

53. Settle down people

Have we not already had enough flame wars this week :(

[tx_dem41]

55. I'm just responding to a personal attack upon me....

I want take it any further. I'm being "watched", you know!

[_TJ_]

10. This thing ain't over yet !

There are many many good people on DU, and I know that with a
little effort from everyone we can all be singing from the same
songbook again (if you'll excuse the metaphor).

[RetroLounge]

14. Yawn

How many of these "Save Jerry" posts are you gonna spew?

He's an asshat.

SO when they are marching you to the camps, you can at least say "I am better." THat'll count for something...

RL

[tx_dem41]

21. Let me see if I have this right...

all "asshats" should die...is that the new philosophy of the Democratic Party? Hopefully, not my Democratic Party. Maybe, you are a member of a different one.

[RetroLounge]

31. Nope, you do not have it right.

But you don't really care either, do you?

Your outrage makes me smile...

RL

[tx_dem41]

32. Your only statement you made about Falwell was that he was...

an asshat. I can only work with the material you give me.

I feel no outrage at the sentiments of DU today. Only some sadness at knowing that they can't even feel some empathy for his family, which is all I have stated.

[RetroLounge]

60. Actually, his family is probably fortunate

to be rid of him too...

But if not, then they have my Sympathy...

RL

[_TJ_]

20. Have you been defending Falwell?

I don't think he should be defended but you are perfectly
entitled to do so if you believe it.

[tx_dem41]

25. I'm sorry...would you point out where I have been defending Falwell...

I've expressed sympathy and empathy for what his family is going through right now, having recently gone through the same thing.

Will you please point out where I was "defending" him? Please, I await your response.

[_TJ_]

I didn't say that you were

I asked if you were. The other posters seem to suggest that you
are but I cannot find any posts that would support that contention. I was only asking - and as I said, you are perfectly free to
do so if you so desire.

[tx_dem41]

28. Okay....sorry for jumping on your post.

I would never defend Falwell's political or religious philosophy, since I agree with nothing found in them.

[Rainbowreflect]

40. I think I understand how you feel, or maybe not.

I think the hate he has preached is not Christian, but I cannot hate him or be happy in his suffering & be the kind of Christian I want to be. Do I always succeed? Hell no, but I can at least try.

[tx_dem41]

43. Thank you for understanding.

I would add two things. I empathize with his family, having gone through something similar recently.

The other thing, I don't even think its just a Christian thing (although it definitely is a Christian thing), since I'm an Atheist.

Thanks again!

[Rainbowreflect]

45. Than I will just say that I think you are a better person for

your kindness.

[tx_dem41]

46. And, the same to you! n/t

[oasis]

23. Why not list some of the good Falwell has done? That approach may

prove easier than asking folks to forget all of his negatives.

[tx_dem41]

26. Can you please point out where I have asked "folks to forget all

...his negatives" Or, are you just making that up?

I have expressed sympathy for his family. I have recently gone through something similar with a very close family member, and I just don't have it in me to see another family go through what I have gone through. Do you want me to apologize for that?

[Democrats_win]

4. GOP economic indicator: Hate becoming progressively worse.

Mission Accomplished?

[_TJ_]

33. But I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully!

If they really want to :D

[seabeyond]

5. and families against families

to the point of throwing out daughters and sons for being gay. yes

[_TJ_]

7. He is like poison

Almost everything that tumbles from his filthy mouth is bile. :mad:

[Inland]

11. Let's just say I'm not sending flowers to the wake.

Don't want to speak evil of somebody on his deathbed, but he went out of his way to do dirt.

[Walt Starr]

12. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robem$ome are the reason why

I am leary of anybody who tells me they are Christian.

[terrya]

13. That's absolutely correct.

And if he recovers, and apologizes for the polarization that HE helped to create in this country (no one forced him to blame 09/11 on gay people, the ACLU, feminists and pro-choice people), then we can look at this differently.

Why should WE bear the onus of "being better than they are"?

[Ripley]

17. People are at each other's throats here because of the media.

The saturation coverage of TS and now apparently JF in the MSM has seeped into this place and whenever someone asks the administrators to put a muzzle on some of it, it has been rejected.

We all know there are disruptors here. They are in every single TS thread and now I'm sure the JF threads. We ain't supposed to bait them but it goes on and on. 20 threads saying the exact same thing is absurd. If DUers can't see they are behaving in a manner that the media wants them to (focus on one circus issue and ignore all other stories and issues) they deserve what this board becomes.

[jonnyblitz]

24. yup i agree.

:thumbsup:

[FreepFryer]

27. People are at each other's throats because that's the nature of people.

Use the competition of ideas in a healthy way.

Don't cast generalizations over people that should possibly be applied to organizations.

I happen to have extremely fulfilling debates with many religious friends, and the way I learned to debate these issues respectfully was by listening and going back to debate again and again.

You are welcome to be Christian. I happen to think it's about as important to the political issues we face as whether you are right- or left-handed.

If you want to stop the influence of these divisive pundits and pols, stop perpetuating it by drawing the 'sides' you do in your post. They don't have to exist if you don't want them too. That's the power of belief.

So please, let the rancorous debate continue about Democratic issues, and hopefully someday, not about our religious lives.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

[PhuLoi]

29. Falwell is a pathogen, one of a number of pathogens that afflict

our world. I do not regard him as a member of our species but as a particularly virulent strain of misery inducing lifeforms. The prospect of his death is to me like the eradication of a strain of hemmorhagic fever.

[sniffa]

34. this thread is offensive!!

and someone ratted you out.

[_TJ_]

35. Yay I finally lost my cherry

I feel like a big man now :D

[riverwalker]

37. Falwell has turned more away from Christianity

than towards it. He has made it an aberration, a distortion, an obscene mutation of what it really is. Because of that, most spiritual seekers are unable to separate the teachings from the followers, and avoid it completely. Fortunately, there are other paths that share the ideals of pure Christianity, without the odor and hypocrisy of Falwell & Co.

[_TJ_]

39. I like how you think Riverwalker

Keep 'em comin' :applause:

[elehhhhna]

48. He's a fatass and he ripped off Jim & Tammy.

[onager]

56. My wish for Jerry

I wish he was more like Rev. Jim Jones, so I could be assured that some of his most devoted followers would drink the Kool-Aid and shuffle off this mortal coil right behind him.

Behind the jovial phony persona this jerk adopts on Larry King and Faux News, I have no doubt he would like to rid the earth of atheists like me. Along with my gay friends, my Jewish friends who don't convert, and, YES, my liberal Xian friends who constantly delude themselves into thinking they can find some "common ground" with Falwell and his ilk.

You'd have better luck finding common ground with a water moccasin.

[arwalden]

58. Falwell Will Get NO Sympathy and NO Well-Wishes From Me.

If he dies, he dies. I will mourn his passing just as much as I mourned the passing of the antigay and racist bigot Reggie White.

[jonnyblitz]

61. how UN-christian of you.

didn't you read those threads INSTRUCTING you HOW to behave? :eyes: