has rev. jackson become a repuke?

[fryguy]

or is he merely pandering to the religious-right in an attempt to bolster another presidential bid in 2008? because either way, it sounds like he's reading off delay's repuke talking points...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/29/schiavo/index.html

The Rev. Jesse Jackson arrived Tuesday at Terri Schiavo's hospice and called on Florida lawmakers to have the brain-damaged woman's feeding tube reinserted.

"This is one of the profound moral, ethical issues of our time, the saving of Terri's life," the civil rights leader said. "And today we pray for a miracle."

<more>

[drdon326]

1. Or maybe he feels this is an injustice to the legal system.

like many here.

[fryguy]

12. how is the schiavo case an example of the injustice of the legal system?

there has been countless litigation on the issue, experts presented for both sides, arguments made by attorneys, and in the ends the courts have made their determinations by applying the law to the facts at issue - as court are meant to do. just because all the courts have ruled against the parents does not make the system unjust.

there are plenty of examples one can point to to show the injustice in the legal system....but this is not one of them....

[drdon326]

15. Probably the same way you and I feel about Bush v, Gore

Why does it bother so many people if shes allowed to live?

Oh btw...

Barney Frank - not exactly a rw thug - has apparently come out in favor of reinserting the tube.

[LostinVA]

27. A link re: Barney Frank?

I heard him say the very opposite on Friday re: reinsertion of the tube. He very well may have changed his mind since then. Do you have a source for this?

[drdon326]

32. I heard it one one of the talking head shows....

that he was in support. Couldnt find it info on-line.

[fryguy]

34. well that's a reliable source then

which show?

[LostinVA]

36. Well, since I heard Frank himself say on either CNN or MSNBC

on Friday that he was against the reinsertion, I'll take that as his stand. And believe the talking head was stretching the truth. As I said, he may well have suddenly changed his mind, so any information anyone can find will be appreciated and believed by me.

[LostinVA]

42. Hey, DR -- I think this proves you're wrong about Rep. Frank

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/22/1530207

[drdon326]

52. Since I cant find a link, I will withdrraw that.

i know he was against it going to congress.

[LostinVA]

53. I Just Called Frank's Office

The staffer that answered the phone told me Rep. Frank is against Federal intervention in this matter. When I said I was told Mr. Frank had spoken recently on TV saying he was FOR the reinsertion, I was told this wasn't true. Mr. Frank HAD talked about the rights of disabled people, and that those rights re: Federal intervention and support may perhaps be legislated on the Federal level.


Just telling ya what I was told.

[drdon326]

56. uggg...I never said he was on TV

I said i heard that he supported the refeeding.

[LostinVA]

58. I Just reread your post

You could take it you meant he himself said it, or someone said it OF him. If someone said it of him, then I really doubt he said that. They either misspoke or you misheard. Easy enough to do.

[salin]

49. Yep, now that's a good source ... given that last sat

he was one of the House dems holding a press conference before the congressional vote - opposing congressional action to interfere with the court's initial ruling.

I think you misheard, or they misspoke.

[fryguy]

28. where are you getting your "news"?

give me a link to the report that Barney Frank is in favor of that or stop spreading rumors....

[donheld]

120. It wouldn't bother me at all if she was allowed to live

We're just about 15 years too late. She's been technically dead for many years.

[hinachan]

19. Now people can't say it's all right-wingers behind Terri

I'm thoroughly disgusted with how my fellow "Democrats" (and I use this term loosely, because I *thought* Democrats were for women's rights) are so willing to let a man decide whether a woman lives or dies, when there is not one written document proving this man's claim. When the man in question spent the money he sued for -- not on therapy, which he claimed he was trying to fund -- but on attorneys, the woman he's been shacking up with, and of course, himself.

Allowing the government to say "the feeding tube must go" when this woman doesn't even show all the signs of being PVS is the ultimate in not being able to control your own body. First, conservative judges want to force pregnancy on women...how, a conservative judge has forced death upon a woman. When even the right-wingers say enough is enough, you know this far-right judge has gone too far.

Please spare us the "she wanted it this way" crap, because YOU DON'T KNOW. Without a written statement, it's Michael's word against that of Terri's family. Funny, too, how he only remembered that "wish" of hers AFTER a successful malpractice suit made him eligible to gain a lot of money when Terri died.

Please spare us the "she's brain-dead". Brain-dead people DO NOT act like Terri. She's profoundly brain-DAMAGED.

Please spare us the "Tom DeLay pulled the plug" nonsense, because, in his family's case, the patient was on life-support, with his organs failing rapidly. Terri's NOT on life-support (a feeding tube isn't life-support, but a way of assisting someone who can't swallow), and her organs were NOT failing...not till she was being dehydrated, that is.

This case sets a dangerous precedent, which allows people to dispose of severely ill/disabled patients, based on one person's claim (which, oddly enough, he never made until after he'd won megabucks in a malpractice suit).

[LostinVA]

57. She is PVS. No argument from ANY Doctor

Except for Frist, the "Nobel-nominated" Schindler doctor, and Cheshire. None. You can definitely have an opinion not agreeing with with her tube being taken out, but the FACT is she's PVS.

And, I don't see this as a feminist issue. It's a next-of-kin issue. Terri would have the right to make the decision for Michael if HE were PVS. And yes, I'm a woman. And I've been told to my face I didn't get a job because I was a woman and didn't need to support a family, and was fired from another one in college because I wouldn't wear makeup.

[hinachan]

59. Blood is thicker than water.

<<And, I don't see this as a feminist issue. It's a next-of-kin issue. Terri would have the right to make the decision for Michael if HE were PVS.>>

The wishes of Michael's family, in that case, should take precedence over those of Terri. Family is closer (=blood relative) than a spouse.

And you're fooling yourself if you don't look at that judge's record. He has a history of being a wingnut, very anti-woman. Like the woman who tried to get protection from her husband...your wonderful judge refused, and a few days later, the husband stabbed his wife to death.

Face facts: You're taking the word of a misogynistic judge as truth.

[tx_dem41]

61. "Family is closer (=blood relative) than a spouse."

Not legally.

[LostinVA]

94. Not necessarily in reality, either.

As I said in another post, you do not choose your relatives\, you're stuck with them. And, I have a lot of crazy Freeper relatives.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ima_sinnic]

109. the amount of misinformation & ignorance in your post is appalling

don't let FACTS like catscans and the judgments of NOT ONE but 23 different court cases get in the way of your ignorant bliss. Liquefied cerebral cortex means NO seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling, talking, signing, resonding, THINKING. None, nada, zip, zilch, NOBODY HOME. You're talking maintaining an empty husk. why would ANYONE in their right mind have to wonder if the woman might want that? TO WHAT END? so we can make a body "live" with no brain, big whoop, now isn't that special? but thanks for coming by with those stale but completely FALSE wingnut talking points.

sheesh.


here, TRY to enlighten yourself:

[sui generis]

2. No. This is not, for the bajillionth time, a republican versus

democrat issue.

We're as guilty of politicizing our "absolute" truth on this issue as we accuse them of being, and then drawing party lines on the issue.

We really should stop that. There are some republicans who completely disagree with leaving the tube in who didn't convert to democrat overnight either.

[drdon326]

5. A little frustrating , isnt it ?

there are some here who know that this isnt a R vs. L issue.

[fryguy]

14. except that when the republicans put out talking points

saying how great a political tool the issue is because of the moral aspect will be difficult for dems to deal with - it does become an "R v L issue." not so much the decision about what should be done per se, but the message and rhetoric that is used in the discuss does take on a political undertone. and then when a very prominent democrat publicly expresses the very sentiment in the republican's memo, it is troubling and is appropriate to call his motives into question...

[drdon326]

21. Thats more of a reason NOT to make it a political issue.

Dont play his game...make it what it is... a moral/ethical issue.

[fryguy]

33. it is

and morally/ethically i believe a husband is correct in seeking to uphold the wishes of his wife, and the courts have properly ruled according to the law to support that as well

[sui generis]

41. sorry fry

I prolly came across as more combative on this than I am -

you make a good point, but I also think that if we are confined by our notions of what fits into party rhetoric then at least on this side we're not very liberal at all.

The real issue: I think he's doing what feels right in his heart, at the expense of his head.

The rest of us who struggle with the complexity of the situation realize that we have to let intellect overrule instinct in this case. We have merely failed to make that case adequately to him as a public figure, which doesn't mean that he's a republican.

[fryguy]

55. i see your point as well sui

and would also agree that, at the end of the day, he's no closer to being a republican than i am....and perhaps, in hindsight, the title of my OP was a bit disingenuous in an attempt to vent my personal frustration at not only the fact that the unfortunate plight of terri schiavo has become such a public issue, but that it has remained as such. ever just explode a bit?

as for putting intellect over instinct and recognizing the complexities of the issue, i think i fall well within "the rest of us" on that front and hope you weren't implying otherwise. as it is, i have been addressing many of the "unjustness in the law because the courts have found against what i think should be the result" arguments with, what i believe are, cogent and well reasoned counter arguments. now maybe that's just because i'm an attorney and witness first hand many real unjust aspects of the legal system, but i find it very naive to frame the schiavo dispute as an example of the injustice in the system.

[TwentyFive]

46. Jesse Jackson was bought off long ago. Jesse Jackson is for himself only.

I pay no attention to what Jesse Jackson says. His track record suggests he is merely a corporate America shakedown artist.

Knowing Jesse's past with money & donations, I would say somebody called him and offered him something to support this issue.

[Toucano]

68. That's absolutely obscene

and an completely ignorant thing to say.

As someone in it for himself only, Jackson sure does have a lot of money and power, doesn't he? Ruling the world, ain't he?



:rant:

[Tomee450]

122. All you are doing

is repeating right wing rhetoric of people like Limbaugh and O'Riley who hate Jackson. Jackson has done a lot for the Democratic party. He has helped form organizations to get blacks out to vote and they usually vote Democratic. Jesse is a true progressive yet we have people on a progressive board bashing him.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Here's An E-Mail I Sent To A Conservative Website

There are those of us on the left who are sickened by the Terri Schiavo case. To me being a liberal means having empathy for folks in distress... Terri Schiavo is clearly in distress .... We should help her....

I believe in a culture of life. This belief leads me to oppose abortion, the death penalty, and euthanasia... I am also a civil liberterian... In a pluralistic society these competing values sometimes conflict... But not in this instance... Terri Schiavo should live... When God wants her home he will call her... He won't starve her to death...

I am a caregiver and have been for ten years to my eighty seven year old mom... She has stage 3 colon cancer and is an amputee... She's alert and oriented but certainly lacks the ability to care for herself..If I didn't prepare her meals and deliver them to her she would presumably starve.. How is that different than the feeding tube... Physically challenged people are often dependent on others for their sustenance..So is Terri... Her caregivers feed her through a tube...

Please keep in mind that there are those of us on the left who want Terri to live... Tom Harkin, Lanny Davis, RFK Jr., half the Congressional Black Caucus are on the record as supporting Terri's right to be fed...It's also instructive as this case has worked it's way through the courts that in the few instances where judges voted for the Schindler position those judges were Democratic appointees..I digress...My beliefs inform my positions not the other way around...

As a Christian I believe that we believers are here for just a short time and Earth is just a way station on the way to Heaven... So too is it with my sister in Christ... Terri.. She will get to be with Christ as will all believers... I fault those who hastened the meeting...

Peace

Brian

[hinachan]

60. DemocratSinceBirth: Wonderful e-mail

I'm not a Christian, I'm all for euthanasia if the patient finds that the pain can't be tolerated anymore, but I still feel this case has been handled all wrong. The family has been treated like second-class citizens whose concerns don't even matter.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. TY

I am also a civil liberterian...I don't want to use the awesome power of the state to cajole folks to embrace my moral code...

If a woman wants an abortion or a terminally ill patients wants to be euthanized I would ultimately defer to their decision if I couldn't dissuade them to make a different choice...


Euthanasia is a difficult one...


If someone is in unbelievable pain and medicine has no answer I don't know what the appropriate course is but I do know lots of folks who have been to the edge of death and turned back were happy they chose life...

[fryguy]

70. a well written email, Dem

And I don't mean to appear as challenging your faith or beliefs in anyway, but I would pose a question relating to your statement that "When God wants her home he will call her... He won't starve her to death."

How does it serve God's wishes to keep her alive through the hand of mankind anymore than for her to die from the removal of that intervention? How do we know that the doctors 15 years ago did not interfere with God's plan? Perhaps he was calling her when she suffered her heart-attack and it has been the intervention of mankind that has prevented her from departing the world as was planned? Would it therefore not be equally wrong to keep her alive?

It would seem that the very same argument of mankind playing God that can be posited against the removal of her tube can is applicable to the insertion of it.

[Tinoire]

86. Beautiful letter. Thank you n/t

[rinsd]

96. We've battled before....

But you really have hit the nail on the head with the above.

[H2O Man]

3. Wrong on both points.

Way wrong.

[tx_dem41]

4. Or...maybe he's just expressing his own personal belief.

Is there anything wrong with a person doing that?

[drdon326]

10. Personal beliefs ?? At DU ??

NO, IF you dont follow the prevailing lockstep youre automatically afreeper.

[hinachan]

37. The prevailing lockstep....

"NO, IF you dont follow the prevailing lockstep youre automatically a freeper."

I'm getting the sinking feeling there's a lot of truth to this statement. :(

[tx_dem41]

38. Yes...I'm well aware of that line of thought.

Is it correct to call it thought, though? ;-)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Nope. Just grandstanding.

[AutumnMist]

7. I Am Always Asking Questions

about Rev. Jackson and the type of public image he gives. I don't in any way think he is a repuke. Not at all. But I do think that he seems to step in at times when things have gone way past the middle mark. Where was he in the beginning of this public storm and why is he stepping up now? What has changed? Thats what I would like to know. Not because I am knocking him, but because I am curious as to why he drew the conclusion he did after meeting with Terri Shiavo's parents at the hospice center. Did he have this view before? His statements will fuel the fire on the conservative side of things. I do know that.

[Botany]

8. No Jesse has never seen a T.V. camera he didn't love.

Although I support SOME of his politics the man is a con.

[LdyGuique]

9. No, he's just the puke he's been for years

[BurtWorm]

11. There needs to be a little more separation of the person from the opinion

in some matters. This is one of them. Jesse Jackson is not a tool of anybody.

[Botany]

17. No Jesse is a tool for himself.

Ask Correta Scott King. To this day she never speaks to him. The SOB went
and dipped his shirt in MLK's blood and flew back to Chicago and walked into
a city consul meeting saying something like, "The leader is gone ... I am the new
leader."

In Columbus, Ohio about 20 years ago he made the firing of a black Mother & Son
from a connivence store a cause to fight. When it turned out that they had video
of the fired employees stealing from the till and that their witness was lying under oath for $5000.00 he was no where to be seen.

[BurtWorm]

23. He's not the only person in the world with mistakes and sins in his past.

He's done some good here and there as well.

[Botany]

116. Very true!

J. Jackson has done some good things. But this is not one of them.

[H2O Man]

48. Baloney.

How can you make things like that up? Coretta and Jesse are good friends. My God, the lies that people spread on here.

[Botany]

110. Sorry those are facts.

He might be speaking to Coretta King now but as of a few years ago
she would not speak to him.

He did go to Chicago w/ MLK's blood on him and declare himself the new
leader.

The story about Columbus is true. I live there.

I might be wrong but it looked like Jesse wanted some P.R. ......
and what about all the other dying people in the Hospice and their families?
Does the Schiavo circus not hurt them too?

[H2O Man]

114. Actually, it's not true.

Jesse was, like many others, very upset when he watched Martin get shot and die. Jesse was in the parking lot, and Martin was looking down, talking to him and a couple others.

And, yes, Jesse did have Martin's blood on him. It is true that he was not telling the truth when he said he cradled Martin's head as he died. It's equally untrue that he claimed leadership as a result.

Those around King and Jackson -- and believe me that this included everyone from Ralph to Mrs. King -- knew that Jesse had trouble with Martin's death, due in part to some unresolved conflict from the day before, when Martin snapped at Jesse. Martin was under pressure, and spoke more harshly than needed.

Everyone knew very well that Martin had selected Ralph to lead, if he should die. There was no question, and the claim that Jesse tried to question this is bullshit.

Jesse was a young man who was torn apart by Martin's death. Mrs. King is a compassionate lady, who was not inclined to petty grudges.

[Botany]

115. Jesse did go back to Chicago w/ MLK's blood on him ....

..... and go in front of the City Consul. Not unless 3 different items I
read about him are not true.

If Jesse wanted to comfort the Schnidlers he could have done it
privately and respected the patients, families, and staff @ the hospice.

The story about Columbus, OH is true.

I support SOME of his politics but the man has never seen a TV camera
he did not love.

[H2O Man]

117. Did you even read

what I said? What part don't you understand?

[libhill]

13. I'm not surprised -

He tried to defend the Enron thieves, too -

[rjx]

16. Another blow for Democrats!

What the hell is going on here? Again, here is yet another example of how our party can't pull it together. A week ago you had the bankruptcy BS , Al Sharpton talking about rap music, and now Jesse Jackson. If those are really their honest views, then I respect them. BUT we need Democrats that act like Democrats.

The republicans know they really screwed up with intervening where they had no business sticking their nose in. Bush and Delay have been in hiding, and many of the republicans seem to be dividing. YAY! But then we have Jesse Jackson pulling his shit. WTF?

C'mon Howard, you need to do a better job at keeping the children in check. In situations like this, we need to unite as one and seize the opportunity.

Again, one step forward and two steps back.

[hinachan]

62. Here's the problem.

<<Bush and Delay have been in hiding, and many of the republicans seem to be dividing. YAY!>>

Yay, yay, go-team-go! Who cares of people live or die, we scored one for our side! Win one for the Gipper!

This is precisely the attitude I can't stand in Republicans, and now we're seeing it on this side of the aisle.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. If Jesse Jackson Is A Repuke Jessica Alba's Head Is In My Lap

As I Type...


Kisses

Brian

[drdon326]

26. HMMMMM......Whose lap was that again ??

lol

[K-W]

20. Since when does overpublisized=profound.

No Jesse, this is an event that happens fairly often. If you want to take issue with the laws, fine, but stay out of the Schiavo case you publicity whore.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. He's Exercising His First Amendment Right As You Just Have

Shouldn't we extend to others the rights we cherish for ourselves

[K-W]

50. When did I say to take rights away from him?

Of course he can say whatever he wants, nobody is challenging that. Why on earth would you suggest I did?

I pointed out that his reasoning is bad, this isnt a profound situation. Right or wrong this happens fairly regularly, and it seems an odd choice to jump in at this time in this issue where there is so much disinformation that making a cogent case for disabled rights is probably impossible.

But again, nobody is suggesting he cant say what he wants, I am suggesting that he shouldnt if he has the same goals as I do, ie justice for ALL. I dont think the possibility of making an ACTUAL pro-life point outweighs the fact that most people will see this as Jackson supporting the liars on the right.

[Just Me]

22. You wish?

:shrug:

jus' wonderin'

[Toucano]

25. Fall in line, Jackson!

There's no room for diversity of opinion in the Democratic party!

The political landscape is black and white. Nuance is dead. Love it or leave it!

Doesn't he know that?

[fryguy]

40. not a matter of "falling in line"

but there is something bothersome about such a public display at this point by him. it smells of pandering, even though i'm inclined to accept that it is a sincely held belief - beyond even the show concern many repukes in congress have displayed.

[tx_dem41]

51. Funny, it "smelled" to me of compassion....

toward a family who has a loved one that is dying. Silly me.

[Toucano]

65. I'm not buying your crap.

You've employed the same tactic in your headline as cable news uses when it chooses to deride someone.

"Does Jon Stewart service truckers for pocket change? Tune in and find out!"

Comparing Jackson to DeLay reveals that you know little about either man.

Jackson's view has ALWAYS been consistent on this matter. I happen to disagree with his view, but I don't have to deride and attack every good person I disagree with.

As for coming late to the circus, do you realize Jackson released a statement about the case on 3/22/05? The day after Monkey boy signed his goofy law.


Rev. Jesse Jackson’s Statement on Terri Schiavo’s Fight For Life

CHICAGO – (March 22, 2005) – The Rev. Jesse L. Jackson, Sr., founder and president of the RainbowPUSH Coalition, issued the following statement on the Terri Schiavo case:

This week, the U.S. Congress took the extraordinary step of intervening in the Terri Schiavo case, passing a bill that would enable the federal courts to hear the case.

I have serious misgivings about the appropriateness of Congress intervening with the legal court process on a specific, individual matter. It is not certain whether or not Congress’ action itself is constitutional.

I am deeply sympathetic and respectful of the passion and legal rights of Mrs. Schiavo’s husband, and appreciate the sincerity of his belief that he is acting in accordance with the wishes of his wife.

Yet, with life and death hanging in the balance, it is my belief that the feeding tube should be re-introduced as a lifeline for Terri Schiavo. Removing the feeding tube would essentially starve her to death.

I respect the views of those citizens and members of Congress who passionately cry out against her starvation and seek means to extend her life.

But in so doing, a consistent moral and ethical position would extend a feeding tube to ALL who are confronted with starvation – to demand public, government policy to feed the hungry. I implore them to apply this same passion for Terri Schiavo to the young infants and children dying of starvation and lack prenatal and post-natal care.

Those on food stamps need a feeding tube to fend off poverty and starvation. Our homeless population needs a feeding tube to extend their lives and survive.

This same passion to halt starvation should also extend to the millions in the Congo and Sudan. With the focus and attention on this one individual case, we must marshal this sentiment and extend a feeding tube to all those in the United States and around the world. Our moral, ethical and religious values require us to address poverty and starvation on a global, structural level, and Congress should appropriate the needed budget to stamp out poverty and starvation wherever it exists.

If you can't distinguish between taking a consistent position and pandering, you could very well be in the wrong camp yourself.

[fryguy]

80. funny, i wasn't SELLING crap

...and you seem to have plenty of your own...

but since you brought it up, how is comparing terri schaivo's plight and using it for the benefit of the homeless and the hungry not political? (note, i'm not disagreeing with the call to make the issue of more concern - its just opportunistic of him)

and there wasn't a comparison between delay and jackson - read my original post - just a comment that the tone which jackson used had some striking similarities to the talking points that were circulated on the hill. granted that could be a coincidence, but to have jackson appear down at the hospice now and with such fanfare now smacks of pandering and grandstanding.

neither had i implied that jackson has chenged his views on the issue.

[Toucano]

85. Fuck yes, you were!

Nice little "bash-a-Democrat" thread you started.

Maybe if your lucky, Rush's minions will use some of the choice comments on his next show.

Did you bash Jesse Jackson when he stood up for disenfranchised voters in Columbus, OH earlier this year? Was that "grandstanding" and "opportunistic"?

How about some fucking consistency on your part?

[fryguy]

101. watch the accusations

No, I didn't bash Jackson when he was grandstanding in Columbus - in fact I didn't say word one about it and why should I have. I have, however, felt for a long long time that he is a grandstanding opportunistic individual, and I have therefore been nothing but consistent in my opinions. So before you rush off with accusations, check for facts and don't presume things about people.

And let me get this straight, criticism of a public individual's action is not permitted for fear that it might be picked up by people like Limbaugh? Interesting. Any new rules for discussion and dissent you would like to pass along since you seem to have assumed the role of thought police and have your finger on the moral compass we all should be following.


(edited for decorum)

[Toucano]

112. Bullshit!

If you've been consistently opposed to Jackson because he's an opportunistic grandstanding panderer, you had a DUTY and an OBLIGATION to criticize him REGARDLESS of his position on an issue.

You can't enjoy the benefits of his media spotlight when it suits your position and rail against the very same media spotlight when you disagree with the issue without being a hypocrite.

Don't kid yourself. This little hate-thread of yours hardly represents a criticism of a public individual's actions. It never started out as one since you decided rather than questioning the actions, you'd start off calling the man names a la Fox News.

How is "Rev. Jackson: Repuke or panderer?" any differenty than "John Kerry: Faggot or pussy?"

You want new rules? You don't need them. The old rules are sufficient.

KNOW YOUR ENEMY. Jesse Jackson is not our enemy.
RELY ON FACTS. How you've "felt for a long time" doesn't jive with the facts.
DON'T EAT YOUR OWN. There are plenty of right-wing wackos who will take care of them for you.

[fryguy]

118. so, what you're saying is

it's necessary to agree with someone 100% and NEVER criticize them for their actions? or similarly to never agree with them and ALWAYS criticize them? really? that's how it works. interesting. guess my idea of democracy and free speech is quite a bit different from yours...

and in case you're wondering, since you're spewing crap of your own without knowing facts, i didn't oppose what jackson was doing in ohio, neither did i celebrate or benefit from it. quite honestly i wasn't paying any attention to what he was doing or saying there. had i been paying attention to what he was saying individually i might have, quite possibly, disagreed with it and would have said so. however, my focus has not been to track the movements and appearances of the rev. jackson so i can't express an opinion as to each and every position he has taken over the years. criticize me for that if you must. i can say, however, that when i do see him opining on an issue and drawing the attention of the national media, the vast majority of the times i disagree with the position he takes and i say so. so don't call me a hypocrite without knowing the facts, its insulting to me and embarrass yourself.

i'm not about to go along with the position that dissent is not permitted within the democratic party, nor that an opinion that is counter to your own is automatically dubbed a "hate-thread." if i see a democrat doing something i think is wrong or i disagree with i'm god-dam well going to say so and would hope others do likewise. if you have a problem with that, fine, but that's the way it is. and if you think kerry is a pussy or a fagot, i welcome you to say so. of course i'll be one of the first to disagree with you, but that's your prerogative to say it nonetheless.

as for the rest of your post, you're spewing about as much bullshit as anyone else on this thread. so if you disagree with me, fine, that's your right, but don't go saying things like "rely on facts" and lecturing me about "eating your own" without knowing what the hell you're talking about.

[Toucano]

119. Are you paying attention at all?

It's your STUPID TACTIC that's the problem. I've already said I disagree with Jackson's POSITION on this issue. I don't have to agree with his position on the Schiavo issue to know that he's a genuine, sincere leader who ALWAYS fights for what he believes in and is committed to our goals of social justice.

You've not criticized the ACTIONS or the POSITION of Jackson, but the man himself.

It's a blatant character assassination without any justification other than what you have "felt" over the years. You admit to paying virtually no attention to the man unless you disagree with his position. Then you're all name calling and unsubstantiated accusations founded on ignorance.

Read your own thread! You've spawned a great outpouring of Jesse-bashing that Fox news would DIE for! Of course you have to disagree with Democrats when they're wrong. But you didn't do that AT ALL! You attacked Jackson personally as a panderer and an opportunist. That's not criticism of his ACTIONS, or his POSITION, but of his CHARACTER. That's destructive and eating one's own.

The sarcasm of my first post pointed out that you're supposed to be able to disagree with Democrats.

As for the Kerry comment, it was an analogy to the way you chose to frame the discussion between to negative choices. You gave readers the choice of repuke or panderer. What a great start to framing the discussion to criticize Jackson's actions! Bra-fucking-vo!

[H2O Man]

95. Right!

There's a HUGE difference between merely peddling crap and actually selling it. The OP defined that difference.

[asjr]

30. Jesse may be acting out of his view of things, but in this

climate it just naturally, seems to me, to be pandering. I wish I didn't feel that way. Terri has been politicized enough.

[SaveElmer]

31. Just a publicity whore trying to cash in on Terri Schiavo's death

It's despicable. It's easy for him now, he can take this position, get his mug on TV, but doesn't have to take any of the heat if the tube were reinserted since that has already been decided.

[whistle]

35. It's a free country, let Jesse follow his heart and mind on this....

...but if he does convert to republicanism and neo-conservative thought, he'll have to fall in line behind Alan Keyes!
:popcorn:

[AlCzervik]

39. i wonder if he went to Texas when Sun Hudons' life support was stopped?

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/outlook/3103113

Maybe he was, i don't know.

[WilliamPitt]

43. Neither

He is using this matter as a means to advance discussion on the health care crisis in America...which is what this entire fucking debacle should have brought into conversation in the first place.

[H2O Man]

54. Don't confuse people with facts!

This thread is more about outrageous distortions and outright lies. Then you come along and try to stir up trouble. (And how much is Jesse PAYING you to spread the truth?)

[fryguy]

63. i agree that health care should be the issue in the spotlight

but i fail to see how his showing up at the hospice advocating that the profound moral and ethical issue of our time is the saving of terri schaivo's life is furthering that discussion....

[WilliamPitt]

67. Have you listened to him speak?

Not to what the news media says he said, or what the print reports cherrypicked from what he said, but what he actually said.

[SaveElmer]

71. Do you have a link

WHat I have heard him say is that he is lobbying the Florida legislature to have the tube reinserted, he has said that Terri is being starved to death, has said that this is about her Civil Rights to life. If that is being somehow taken out of context I would like to hear it!

[Toucano]

76. Here.

http://www.rainbowpush.org/FMPro?-db=rpodata.fp5&-format=rainbowpush%2fdata%2fdetailpress.htm&-lay=main&-sortfield=date&-sortorder=descend&category=press&year=2005&-max=20&-recid=33213&-find=

[SaveElmer]

81. Thanks...

That statement is almost as reprehensible. Equating Terri Schaivo's wish to die with dignity to the plight of starving children is not only wrong, but offensive. It implies she is being denied something she wished to have. She is not struggling to be fed, she is being allowed to complete the dying process...something she wished to do.

[fryguy]

83. thanks for the link

will check it out when i'm not at work and can listen to it...

[SaveElmer]

66. That's crap

If that was the case he would not distort the fact as he has. He is aping the talking points of the extremists protesting. He has not visited her but feels qualified to discuss her current condition. His statements indicate he has not read the documentation from the Guardian ad litem regarding her medical condition. Most egregious of all he is framing this as a civil rights issue. WHich it is but not in the way he is spinning it. This is about Terri Schiavo's right to die with dignity and to respect her wishes. I find it curious that Jackson shows up now (in his white stretch limousine), now that the case has been adjudicated and there is nothing he can really do. He gets to take this position, gets his face on TV, but doesn't have to take any of the blame for the tube being reinserted.

[H2O Man]

69. "white stretch limo"

gosh, that changes everything.

[SaveElmer]

72. Pretty tactless if you ask me!

Actually, him showing up at all was tactless!

[H2O Man]

74. tactless .....

yes. How dare he? especially in a stretch limo! What will they want next?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. Scrath A Little Deeper

-:)

[BuyingThyme]

124. There was no "debacle"

until the Jesse Jacksons came along.

[mattclearing]

44. Don't be silly.

Jesse is as blue as they come.

This just proves that the Schiavo issue divides well-meaning people everywhere, regardless of their politics.

[ProfessorGAC]

45. Then Pray, Jesse

If God chooses to fulfill your wishes, Terri will be saved. If not, then i guess God's answer was no.
The Professor

[solinvictus]

47. Not a Repuke, an opportunist..n/t

[SoCalDem]

64. Jackson is an opportunist..

Like MOST politicians.. The "reverend" part of him has been "dormant" for a long time:(

[Toucano]

75. Was he an opportunist

when he was standing up for voting rights earlier this year?

Was he an opportunist when he released a statement condemning the houses new predatory lending bill last week?

Or was it when he renewed his call to bring the troops home last week?

How exactly has this opportunist profited from his seedy work? Wealth and fortune? Power?

[H2O Man]

77. He was an opportunist

when he brought the American GIs back. Just try and stick up for him on that.

[Toucano]

79. What are you talking about?

What GIs? Back from where?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

88. The Pilot Who Was Shot Down Over Lebanon Or Syria

During The Reagan administration...

[Toucano]

91. Is it that

or was it the US soldiers captured in Yugoslavia?

It would help to know which of Jackson's many sins and panderings I'm supposed to defend.

Edit:

Or those captured in Iraq? There are just too many instances of pandering to keep up with!

[H2O Man]

97. Ha! Actually, Toucano

I was making a joke .... or trying to make light of the extreme ignorance being displayed by some of the jackasses on this thread. Jesse is one of my favorite people, and while I do not agree with him on this issue, I have nothing but respect for the man and his accomplishments. And that includes after finding out that he actually rode in a stretch limo today! Oh my gosh ....

[H2O Man]

98. PS: Goodman was just one

of the hostages Jesse brought home in that era. The man did what no other human being dared to even try. He has got to be one of the bravest, most insightful leaders of the last century.

[Toucano]

102. You slipped one past me!

I was blind with rage at the grotesque feeding frenzy taking place and failed to see the humor.

Thanks for the clarification. :)

[H2O Man]

104. I appreciate the good work

you are doing on here.

[Toucano]

92. Dupe

[SoCalDem]

78. Yes.. politicians are just like that

I did not make them that way.. They crave attention and feel the need to "involve" themselves into controversy.

It's a "side-effect" of notoriety

[Toucano]

90. So when Boxer and Reid

hold a press conference to speak out against privatizing social security, no one should listen because they're just craving the spotlight?

When members of the congressional black caucus got arrested outside the embassy to protest the genocide in the Sudan, we should have just ignored them because they're just opportunists?

When Al Franken releases a book, he's just craving attention so we shouldn't buy it?

[notadmblnd]

82. no, he's just taking advantage of the opportunity to steal some

of the little monkeys fundy base away from him.

[oasis]

84. Who thinks Jesse should have told Terri's parents "No I'm not coming"?

What would the right wingers make of a Jackson refusal? :shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. I Think You Opened A Pandoras Box...

eom

[BuyingThyme]

99. If the siren is blaring, some dogs can't help but chase the

ambulance.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

121. Was He Chasing Ambulances When He Registered Millions Of

New Democratic Voters In The 80's?

[BuyingThyme]

123. Does you question have something to do with

anything?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

125. You Said He Was An Ambulance Chaser...

He must have taken time from that avocation to register millions of Democratic voters....


Warm Kisses


Brian

[BuyingThyme]

126. Again, what does one thing have to do with the other?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

127. It's A Black Thing...You Wouldn't Understand

ROTFLMFAO

[applegrove]

100. I am sure Jackson is a big Prize that Karl Rove wants. Just like

any black leader of some renown. Just like how they tried to steal Kennedy, Roosevelt (hawks didn't you know).

That is exactly what Rove did in Texas in the last 20 years. He took one or three key leaders of the Democrats in Texas..and as a sociopath..gave them what they needed, boxed them in, flipped them. That is what sociopaths do..they 'change the thinking' of those they need to protect their POWER.

I've seen the flipping time and again (was a victim of an equally adept sociopath as Karl Rove). They flip people and gaslight them and confuse them and get them to cut off parts of themselves...and hurt people who they would otherwise never consider hurting.

So who started this thread? It is right up there with all the 'flip Lieberman' threads.

Flipping some leader (leader of a particular community) is how Rove does his job. That is what psychopaths do. They change the thinking of particular leaders so has to get many of the followers to follow suit.

Funny thing is when you read the exalted Neocon intellectuals..well one I found projected that all the blacks in the USA would be administering American Empire abroad and putting down roots abroad (and should stop fighting in the USA Army because why would you want to fight in a White Man's War). So - funny if Jackson were to flip. Because all this lot wants is for African Americans to get out of America. (According to the neocons I have debated.. it seems AA mean have too much testosterone).

Please wake up Al Sharpton!! He seems to have been mesmerized too.


AND WHY DOES THE MSM NOT DO STORIES ON SOCIOPATHY AND THE "CHANGING OF THINKING & TARGETING OF STRATEGIC DEMOCRATIC LEADERS" TO DESTROY THE PARTY. Isn't destroying the Democratic Party a 'news story'?

[H2O Man]

105. What other possible reason?

It's silly to think a black leader could think for themselves. Gotta be Karl manipulating that shallow Jesse Jackson. Bet Karl set up that stretch limo ride for Jesse .... that's all it takes to flip guys like Jesse.

[drdon326]

106. iT wasnt much better the second time.

(and he J****h hawk friends will leave the Democratic Party)


yeah...i saw it.

[Donailin]

103. I think he's deliberately confusing the issue

so that no one can balme the dems. He's one of the most recognizable names, and when he add his to any cause, people think liberal left.

[seabeyond]

107. he is a christian leader, this is what christian leaders do

he is not a politician, he is not stomping on the constitution. he is not going against state law. that isnt his job. his is the interpretation of the bible, and in his interpretation he thinks this is wrong, and he feels a responsibility to speak up, his job

he is not a politician and should not be held to that

[spanone]

108. Dear Jesse, you're too late. The Point is Moot.

[oasis]

111. Not too late to weigh in with a positive stance by a high profile Democrat

Jesse knows what he's doing.

[Deja Q]

113. What if he has a point? What if he knows something we do not?

And if he wants to talk morals and ethics, how about the ramifications of peak oil. Something that is nigh and will affect far more than one clinically brain-dead person, made brain-dead by a quack whose law settlement has given the funds to keep her in a state where she'd envy a vegetable if she knew how. And then Bush wants to revamp the tort system so the quacks don't pay the just punishments, leaving those like Shiavo and their families even worse off.