"Gender" vs. "Sex": Discuss

[Tesibria]

(Context: I got into an interesting conversation re: whether we should be using phrase "gender discrimination" or "sex discrimination." I'm very interested in what others say.)

[Behind the Aegis]

1. My opinion

Gender = state of mind
Sex = "goodies in the basket"

[Tesibria]

5. that's what most dictionaries say ...

... but courts and law firms and magazines are all referring to "sex discrimination" as "gender discrimination."

And -- if so -- why do some states have both "sex discrimination" and "sex identity disrimination" laws?

I'm just curious. It's one of those things I'd never thought of before.

[Behind the Aegis]

9. Oh, I think it was a good question.

My original post wasn't meant to insult you. If it did, I apologize. I just boiled it down to a basic thing.

I think the reason you see so many groups switching from 'sex" to "gender" is more about political correctness, rather than accuracy. IF they really want to be non-discriminatory they should say...no discrimination on basis of sex and/or gender.

I do presentations on diversity topics, so I have done much reading about this topic. I came to the conclusion many years ago that sex and gender are not one in the same. However, many people do still think of them as interchangeable.

I will use myself as an example. I have the parts of a biological male. However, I see my gender as androgynous. My gender is much more fluid. Some will have a definite male or female gender, I just don't. Does that make any sense? :)

[Tesibria]

11. Ah -- I was thanking you - REALLY!

NO insult taken whatsoever.

Re: "However, many people do still think of them as interchangeable." -- YES. My law school professor for employment law always referred to it as "gender discrimination" and while the fed statute uses on "sex" -- cases around the country use "gender discrimination" and "sex discrimination" interchangably - sometimes in the same opinion.

I had just never thought about whether one was more "accurate" than the other one (from a compliance perspective and from a corporate policy perspective) until today. I tended to always use "gender" -- probably because I thought it was more PC.

Another issue I'm thinking about (which i'll post at some point) is which is better (from compliance/corporate policy perspective): "nursing" or "breastfeeding" ....

[Withywindle]

13. Sex and sex identity aren't the same thing...

"Sex identity discrimination" I think refers to transgendered people for whom gender identity does not match their biological sex or intersexed people whose genitals might not correspond exactly to either male or female and whose gender identity could be either or neither. (and of course there's a whole spectrum of butch women and femmy men and androgynous folks of all types). Whereas "sex discrimination" just means you can't discriminate against anyone on basis of sex, male or female. It's clunky vague phrasing, but it's good to see it acknowledged that they're not always the same thing.

[Tesibria]

14. so - what's the difference b/w "sex identity" and "gender" ? nt

[Withywindle]

15. See, I think those are closer to the same thing...

Though maybe not - maybe "sex identity" has more to do with how the person perceives hirself (note recently coined gender-neutral pronoun) and "gender" more to do with the role that person takes in society. I don't really know, though. These are words and definitions that there's still a lot of ongoing discussion and debate about - I defer to the transgender community on this one.

[FreepFryer]

2. attribution of sex is usually physical, gender is social, psychological...

...etc.

Once almost synonymous, the latter term has diverged from that usage to refer to more modern concepts of self and identity.

For example, you'd refer to the sex of an animal, but you would not likely refer to it's gender.

[adwon]

3. Words have gender

People have a sex (or have sex, probably both).

That being said, gender discrimination is a bit better phrase to use. It comes closer to encompassing the differences of the roles people are expected to play and how they actually play them. It's a bit fuzzier term for a fairly fuzzy field of study (the lines of demarcation aren't too clear).

Anyway, my opinion and 300 won would buy you a hamburger at a Seoul McDonald's 15 years ago.

[Mikimouse]

4. Sex is defined according to...

primary sex characteristics and chromosomes. Gender is based on the special psychosocial meanings that society attaches to biological sex.

[CornField]

6. Perfect honesty here

Whenever I hear the word "sex" my brain wanders off on a tangent... about sex. It could be a brief flash to my first time... it might be a flash to the adventures of the night before... or maybe I'll think back to that great fantasy...

You get the idea. I find the use of the word sex in places where it shouldn't be interchanged with the word intercourse to be distracting. Then again, I'm probably just excessively titillated. :D

(This isn't at all the discussion you were hoping for, is it?)

[Tesibria]

8. actually .. this raises a good point

... so .. in, for example, an employee handbook, wouldn't it be better to reference "gender discrimination" as opposed to "sex discrimination"? or no?

[seabeyond]

12. word "sex" my brain wanders off on a tangent

lol lol lol that put me in a chuckle. personally i never went to sex. but must do it to my 9year old cause he prefers i use gender than sex. he is 9. that is funny

[RoyGBiv]

7. Role vs. Biology

Sex is a biological term, i.e. one of nature.

Gender is a social role.

We descriminate against sex based on a perception of proper gender roles.

[seventythree]

10. we probably need to change our language

on this issue. Back in the 70's we understood what sex discrimination was, but, fortunately, we have moved on to issues of sexual orientation/identity which has confused the meaning -- so gender discrimination is now more apt.