Soldiers being returned to their families to decide to remove life support

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44839-2004Apr26.html

The Lasting Wounds of War

Roadside Bombs Have Devastated Troops and Doctors Who Treat Them

By Karl Vick
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, April 27, 2004; Page A01

BAGHDAD -- The soldiers were lifted into the helicopters under a moonless sky, their bandaged heads grossly swollen by trauma, their forms silhouetted by the glow from the row of medical monitors laid out across their bodies, from ankle to neck.

An orange screen atop the feet registered blood pressure and heart rate. The blue screen at the knees announced the level of postoperative pressure on the brain. On the stomach, a small gray readout recorded the level of medicine pumping into the body. And the slender plastic box atop the chest signaled that a respirator still breathed for the lungs under it. snip

Accurate statistics are not yet available on recovery from this new round of battlefield brain injuries, an obstacle that frustrates combat surgeons. But judging by medical literature and surgeons' experience with their own patients, "three or four months from now 50 to 60 percent will be functional and doing things," said Maj. Richard Gullick.

"Functional," he said, means "up and around, but with pretty significant disabilities," including paralysis.

The remaining 40 percent to 50 percent of patients include those whom the surgeons send to Europe, and on to the United States, with no prospect of regaining consciousness. The practice, subject to review after gathering feedback from families, assumes that loved ones will find value in holding the soldier's hand before confronting the decision to remove life support.

more

My question is does anyone know if these soldiers who are being returned to their families back here in America to make the decision to remove life support are listed as killed in action or not? Would they be included in the total number of soldiers killed in action in Iraq? I really don't know. Does anyone else know the answer? Please no guessing here. I would really like to know for sure one way or another.

Don

[Jilly Beans]

1. I read somewhere that if they live for 72 hours after injury...

then their death isn't considered KIA.

By the way, I've always wanted to ask you this. What does your DU name mean?

(I'm Maddy McCall :hi: )

[NNN0LHI]

8. It is a government (DoD) issued radio call sign issued to me Maddy

Thank you for the information. Are you positive of that 72 hour rule though? I am not questioning you. I just need to know for sure one way or the other. And thank you very much.

Don

:hi:

[Jilly Beans]

11. No, I'm not certain. I read it somewhere.

I think Lynn below has more correct info.

Thanks for telling me the background of your user name. :hi:

[LynnTheDem]

9. That is not true.

Regardless where they actually die, if they die from wounds sustained in Iraq, they are counted. If the wounds are from enemy action, they are listed KIA and counted. If the wounds are self-inflicted, they are not listed as KIA but are counted. If they are killed in accidents, they are not listed as KIA but are counted.

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE THEY DIE. If they sustain mortal wounds IN IRAQ then they are listed and counted.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. It's so awful

And of course Bush isn't doing anything. But ohh he'd cut his vacation for Terri Schavio. Hypocrite asshole! x( :mad:

[jbnow]

47. KIA is battlefield only

unless it changed from what it was in previous wars.

If someone is wounded and dies in the hospital the category was called "Died of wounds"

Hopefully they are all counted when we are given the numbers of war dead.

The higher survival rates after injuries will have a long term devastating impact on so many soldiers and families. So sad to think about.

[brettdale]

54. I have read that too

I also read if a medic , moves them from the place where they were shot or bombed, it doesnt count as KIA. Makes you wonder what the real death toll is?

[rocktivity]

2. If their EEGs are flat, pull the plug.

If there's no reason to hope they'll regain consciouness, get a second opinion before pulling the plug.

We've learned THAT much over the past month.

:headbang:
rocknation

[w4rma]

3. This is **alot** of folks. I think this may be more than the total death

count that the Armed forces release every so often.

[Liberty Belle]

7. I've heard that 60% of the wounded in Iraq have brain injuries;

so if half of those can't be saved, that means 30% of the wounded are dying from brain trauma.

[NNN0LHI]

21. I am afraid you may be right w4rma

It would appear from this story that more have come back to the USA and been taken off life support and died than all the deaths put together that have actually occurred either on or near the battlefield in Iraq. Something doesn't seem right.

Don

[ninkasi]

53. Nothing has been right

Since the Idiot Boy and his thugs hijacked the election in 2000, and 2004. Nothing will be anything approaching right until they are out of office, and out of power.

We need to withdraw immediately from Iraq. We never should have gone, the whole thing was based on lies, and now thousands of families will have so much grief, so many obstacles to leading anything like normal lives.

As far as the badly wounded, * will not lift a finger to help. He slashes veteran's health care, and anything else that helps the people. It goes to his unending appetite for war, and for heaping even more money onto his rich friends. He is a disgrace to everything this country once stood for.

[Zerex71]

4. Stock up on feeding tubes!

I mean, that an a case of apoplexy for Randall Terry and Tom Delay et. al.

[jojo54]

5. And chimpy wants to cut funding for vet's hospitals!!!

Frigging hypocrite.

[LynnTheDem]

6. Yes they are listed.

DOD and Centcom issue release notifications upon death, and they're added to the ICCC.

And YES we would know if they didn't; we use newsfeeds set for "Iraq" "US soldier" (and likewise for Afghanistan) that search 15,000-30,000 articles worldwide every 15 minutes. Every funeral mention, every memorial mention, we check the names against the list. If any name doesn't appear on the ICCC list, we hound DOD and Centcom for explanations.

Example:

A soldier is allowed to die; the local town paper mentions Sgt Smith died on X day, plug pulled. Or the family gives an interview. Or the local obit lists "Sgt Smith".

We would run across that town article sooner or later and check for Sgt. Smith's name on our list. If we didn't have him listed, we'd go after DOD & Centcom to explain why Sgt. Smith wasn't on the tally.

The military could hide a handful of deaths for awhile; they couldn't hide more than a handful.

[Selatius]

10. Who is "we"

I'm curious. Do you have computer servers that datamine the internet for this? Are you with an organization?

[LynnTheDem]

14. Iraq Coalition Casualty Count

http://icasualties.org/oif/

[Hekate]

22. That's good work you are involved in

Many thanks.

The crosses at Arlington West are filling up the beach now, and I know our VFP and AW volunteers are using your data. After several months' absence I went this Sunday to hear some Gold Star Families speak, Cindy Sheehan among them. (There were other speakers; one woman was a Chumash elder who gave a beautiful peace blessing.) At a certain point tears began to run down my face and wouldn't stop.

Hekate

VFP-SB:
http://www.vfpsb.org/index.html

[LynnTheDem]

26. Cindy is truly a wonderful woman.

Dunno how she manages to get up every morning. But she does. She has more courage and true morality in her pinky that bush's entire soul lacks.

[burn the bush]

40. I'm very glad to hear this. I had wondered for a long time too.

great job

[Selatius]

58. I'd like to express my thanks for your work

What you're doing is truly a great service to all people who wish to find their way through this mess of a war. A friend of mine had one of his buddies with his legs shattered by a roadside bomb. A few weeks before, that same individual watched the humvee in front of his run over another bomb. He lost a friend in that one.

The fucked up part is that they won't let him go home. His leg injuries are bad, but the brass decided it wasn't enough to send him home. They're gonna treat him there, and I assume when he gets better, they're going to put him back into combat, and his unit is stationed between what's left of Fallujah and Baghdad.

[LynnTheDem]

63. Thanks, Selatius.

It's not so often we any of us get any thanks.

ICCC gets rightwingnuts screeching that we're traitors who should be killed for daring to track the deaths at all. "SUPPORT" means ignoring the soldiers, apparently.

ICCC gets leftwingnuts screeching that we're traitorous rightwingnuts for not including any deaths we don't have proof of, for not including suicides back in the USA, for not including mercs, etc.

And it's bloody difficult to day after day after day read the news articles, the death notices, the family's interviews and grief, the town obits complete with the life history and baby pics of the killed soldiers, the photos of the spouses falling down and screaming in agony as their world crashes.

And then get crap from rightwingnuts for tracking any deaths, and leftwingnuts for not tracking more.

And of course hoping my own family members in Iraq don't show up across my screen.

But I just help research; Pat and Michael put up with all the major crap from the lunatics. I couldn't handle that on a daily basis, lol!

So THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your thanks, it's MUCH appreciated!

:hug:

[anitar1]

16. Yes, Lynn, Are you With an Organization?

What is it ? I would like to have access to this. Also , How do you keep up with every death? Very interested. Thank You.

[NNN0LHI]

19. I don't know Lynn?

I can remember seeing reports of deaths of wounded soldiers who were still in Iraq, or on route to, or actually in Germany, but I can honestly say that I have seen no such reports of soldiers who have died from their injuries after they have returned to America and after being taken off of life support at the families request. Not even one. And I have been looking too. Do you have any examples from the media, CENTCOM, or somewhere else, that indicates what you are suggesting? Thank you.

Don

[anitar1]

12. I have read, but do not have a link,

that these soldiers are not included in the roster of killed in action. None of the wounded, who later die, are included , is my understanding. And this seems as if it would be advantageous to the shrub world people, doesn't it? We may never know the true numbers of those who have lost their lives because of this war. Not to mention those soldiers who will never work again and are doomed to a life of poverty and very little medical care from shrub-world. It is a disgrace to our country. I call them throw away soldiers.Makes me feel ashamed of our country. I would never have a "Support Our Troops" sign on my car, as to me it means, "Support The Administration". I have great sympathy for those families who have lost loved ones, and also for those who are terribly disabled by this war.

[LynnTheDem]

15. YES they ARE counted.

Any soldier wounded in Iraq who later dies from those wounds is counted, regardless of where they die.

[anitar1]

18. Please tell us how this is done.

I would imagine there are a lot of wounded, at least from what I have read. How does you organization keep up with it and what is the name of the organization?

[LynnTheDem]

24. When a soldier is wounded, the US Military knows about it.

The soldier is sent wherever for treatment.

The soldier dies, be it in Qatar, Kuwait, Germany, or the USA.

The military must keep such records for payroll, death benefit payments, awards, taxes, etc.

Whenever a death occurs, CENTCOM (the United States Central Command in Tampa , FL ) issues a brief news release that gives the bare facts about the incident: when it happened, how it happened, and the soldier’s regiment, if known. The only information not provided at this point is the soldier’s name. These releases are published regularly on the Internet at:

http://www.centcom.mil/

After the soldier’s relatives are notified of the death, the U.S. Department of Defense then issues its own news release that gives the soldier’s name, age, unit and hometown. Again, these can be found on the Internet here:

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/

We take every news article of soldiers' deaths, be they obit notices, town memorials, local paper op-eds, etc. And we compare those names to the Centcom list.

-To cover up a death completely, the army would have to shut up all the soldiers in that unit, and be sure that not one of them would email or call or write to the dead soldier's family that the soldier had died. They would also have to dispose of the body somehow somewhere in some way. And be sure that those involved wouldn't spill the beans. And then deal with an enraged worried pissed off family as to why they'd not heard from their soldier lately.

When my hubby was in Iraq, I chatted live with him almost nightly on the 'puter and rec'd emails from him 2-3 times/week. Had 3-4 weeks gone by with no word from him, trust me, YOU'D have known about it!

-To cover up a KIA would require the local town, the hospital, all the staff in the hospital, and soldier's entire unit, and his entire family to never be told and to never say one single word publicly that their soldier had died from wounds sustained in Iraq.

The army could lie about how the soldier was wounded, telling the hospital & the family the soldier was in a vehicle accident in Iraq, for example, when in fact he was hurt in action; but when that soldier died, he would STILL BE COUNTED as having sustained wounds in Iraq.

Unless the entire town and family & unit never ever publicly mentioned he had in fact died, and only if they never held any sort of funeral/memorial services, and only if all their friends and relatives stayed quiet, would we NOT find out a soldier had died

Because any mention in any article in any paper, and we'd know a soldier had died that we didn't have listed.

-Covering up a soldier's death by lying that he died in the US from wounds sustained in the US also won't work. Say a soldier is wounded in Iraq, and dies in the USA, and the military tries to cover that up by saying the soldier was drunk driving in the US & that's how he was killed.

That would require a massive cover-up, obviously, by far too many people, and the family & friends ain't very likely to be willing to do such a cover-up.

Add to that, we know what units are where at any given time; if his unit was in Iraq, and not back in the US, then we'd know something wasn't kosher.

All it would take is one person involved in such a cover-up to spill the beans, and we'd all know about it.

[vpigrad]

31. There's one flaw in your theory.

"Training accidents." In the small town where I live, four kids have been killed in what the army claimed were training accidents while on a base in the US. Each of the families had reason to believe they were in Iraq when they were killed. The four weren't included in the #'s for the KIA in Iraq. This, yet again, looks like yet another case of Bush's lies.

[NNN0LHI]

32. Look at post # 30 vpigrad. See if you can find that soldiers name...

...on that master list. I sure can't. Something stinks.

Don

[LynnTheDem]

44. YES actually, Lt. Houghton IS listed.

[LynnTheDem]

43. 2 explanations.

1. The 4 killed were Special Forces.

2. The families are mistaken and the 4 were in fact killed in training accidents on a US base. It happens a lot more often than most people realize.

There is simply no reason for the US military to try and cover up where 4 soldiers were killed.

Got any links to any of these 4 families about any of this? I can check into it to some extent if so.

[tsuki]

20. Lynn, I heard at the Dem meeting last night from some

retired military that the reason there are so many gravely wounded is because this is the first war where the US have been able to get the troops to a major hospital in 24 hours or less. Do you know if this is this accurate?

[LynnTheDem]

28. That is true, yes. More troops are surviving grevious wounds than ever

did previously, due to ability to medevac to hospitals faster, increase in med technology, better protective equipment.

In Vietnam, a very large % of those now wounded would have died.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18882-2004Nov28.html

New technology and medical practices save lives in Iraq
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/nation/7511929.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp


Ten percent of soldiers injured in Iraq have died from their war wounds, the lowest casualty fatality rate ever, thanks in large part to technological advances and the deployment of surgical SWAT teams at the front lines, an analysis to be published today has found.

*(24% died from wounds, Vietnam)

During the Vietnam War, it took injured soldiers an average of 45 days to reach a hospital in the United States.

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/uscombat.htm

[radar]

49. And going back to prior wars - disease killed more...

...Than the enemy did; and those are included amongst the casualty figures.

The Price in Blood! Casualties in the Civil War
http://www.civilwarhome.com/casualties.htm

Camp diseases also ran rampant, especially amongst rural recruits who had little immunity to them. Childhood diseases like measles and mumps became epidemic problems. For every soldier who died in battle, two died of disease. In particular, intestinal complaints such as dysentery and diarrhea claimed many lives. Diarrhea and dysentery alone claimed more men than did battle wounds. The Civil War soldier also faced outbreaks of measles, small pox, malaria, pneumonia, or camp itch. Malaria was brought on by usually camping in damp areas while camp itch was caused by insects or a skin disease. In brief the large amount of disease was caused by a) inadequate physicals before entering the Army; b) plain old ignorance; c) the fact many troops came from rural areas; d) neglect of camp hygiene; e) insects and vermin; f) exposure; g) lack of clothing and shoes; h) poor food and water. Disease particularly ran rampant in the prisons.
CIVIL WAR MEDICINE: The "Medical Middle Ages" by Jenny Goellnitz
http://www.civilwarweb.com/articles/04-99/medicine.htm

* There's a WWII picture of an Australian soldier being led out of the New Guinea jungle with a headwound. Looks like something that is not too bad - but he dies a couple days after the pic was taken.

bd.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1620

Raphael Oembari escorts Private 'Dick'Whittington to a field hospital near Buna where he died of his head wound. (Australian War Memorial Photo)

[Hekate]

29. There are a variety of factors

One of which, ironically, is body armor, and another of which is modern surgical medicine.

IEDs and other weaponry cause a lot of carnage (that being war's purpose, after all) that would have killed a lot of people outright in past wars. However body armor protects the heart and other vital organs, although not the head or limbs.

The speed and technical wizardry of 21st century battlefield medicine also ensures a survival rate beyond what could have been expected in the past.

But what a survival it can turn out to be. We'll be witnessing a lot of amputees among our veterans. Our formerly healthiest and strongest youth, missing big chunks of their bodies. Lots of brain-injured, too, but who knows how many of those will appear more or less okay, yet not be -- brain injuries like that are called "the invisible disability" because everyone expects the person to be 100% okay, and they're not and never will be.

Keep them in mind the next time our soldier-lovin' prezdint and his congressional allies want to cut veterans' benefits for this generation of military personnel.

Hekate

[ultraist]

17. Did Bush recently cut funding for life supports for vets?

I seem to remember reading an article on that someone posted here. If so, this SHOULD have been mentioned during the Shiavo charade, but we know how well the MSM reports on the facts.

[punpirate]

25. You might have been thinking...

... of a few stories about Bush's defunding in the 2006 budget of traumatic brain injury (TBI) support through Medicaid. Many surviving injured would have been able to avail themselves of therapy and other treatment through that program.

[vpigrad]

39. According to a relative that had his unit's vests taken...

the funding hasn't been cut. They're just no longer issued the vests. The vests are locked-up in a supply closet.

That reminds me of hearing my father and brother talk about running low on ammo and needing spare parts while in France in WWII. What they needed was close by, but the people in charge of distributing it just wouldn't allow it. If you've ever worked in a plant, you've probably experienced this same type of idiocy. In a plant the parts and tools you need are usually locked in the supply room rather than available for use.

[madrchsod]

23. remember boys and girls little georgie

wouldn`t let our doctors go to cuba for an international meeting of neurosurgeons-the forum was about the dynamics of brain death.

[rodeodance]

33. April 4th 36 wounded--and we did not hear a thing about it.

..... "We've all reached our saturation for drama trauma," said Maj. Greg Kidwell, head nurse in the emergency room.

On April 4, the hospital received 36 wounded in four hours. A U.S. patrol in Baghdad's Sadr City slum was ambushed at dusk, and the battle for the Shiite Muslim neighborhood lasted most of the night. The event qualified as a "mass casualty," defined as more casualties than can be accommodated by the 10 trauma beds in the emergency room.

"I'd never really seen a 'mass cal' before April 4," said Lt. Col. John Xenos, an orthopedic surgeon from Fairfax. "And it just kept coming and coming. I think that week we had three or four mass cals."........

[Stephanie]

27. that's an unspeakable tragedy

thanks for posting and i don't know what else to say - George Bush should hang his head in shame for his war based on a LIE.

[flygal]

36. He should do more than hang his head

He should be impeached!!

[Stephanie]

45. agreed

no doubt

[NNN0LHI]

30. I found one who died a month after his wounds last year at Walter Reed

http://www.pigstye.net/iraq/article.php/2004081108064398

Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 08:06 AM EST
Contributed by: tomw Associated Press -- HOUSTON - A 25-year-old soldier from Houston has died from shrapnel wounds a month after he was injured during a patrol in Iraq.

Lt. Andrew R. Houghton died at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., on Monday, the Houston Chronicle reported. At least 80 Texas service members have died in fighting in Iraq.




http://icasualties.org/oif/US_NAMES.aspx

But his name is not listed in the Iraq Coalition Casualty Count. Hmmm. Something really ain't right here.

He is not listed on the list that goes by state and city either.

http://icasualties.org/oif/ByState.aspx

Something is wrong here.

[sandnsea]

34. It's there

Go down and put the name in, hit apply filter. He is listed.

http://icasualties.org/oif/Details.aspx

[rodeodance]

35. very sombering article. I will email so its popularity increases to

"most emailed" (maybe it will get people to read it).

[NNN0LHI]

37. Here is the page that came up. Did I do the right thing?

http://icasualties.org/oif/Details.aspx

Do you have a direct link to the page he shows up on?

[NNN0LHI]

41. Do you have a direct link to the page where his name is listed sandnsea?

You must be seeing something I can't see? I cant find his name anywhere? Can someone else find his name?

Don

[Jilly Beans]

46. Don, on your web browser...

First go to the icausalties web page listing casualties (should be fatalities, I suppose). Once you get to the page, go to edit>find.

When the find box pops up, type in Houghton, and then hit enter. I found his name.

[NNN0LHI]

50. Someone just updated it. It wasn't on there little a while ago n/t

[LynnTheDem]

55. Bullshit.

Only Pat can update the ICCC, she doesn't read or post on DU, and she's sure as hell not up at 2 in the AM on a work day.

Please don't cast such aspersions on our work. Thanks.

[NNN0LHI]

59. "cast such aspersions on our work"? You better get some rest

I still had the original windows open from my links I provided. It wasn't on there then. I compared the two of them before and after. Take a break. It will do you good. Paranoid much?

Don

[LynnTheDem]

62. YES actually, his name was on there and has been since Aug 9, 2004,

as has the DOD death notice;
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2004/nr20040810-1104.html

Your very patronizing remarks aren't required.

[Jilly Beans]

38. Read this, Don.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040915-021124-6165r

[LynnTheDem]

52. True. Women soldiers suffering "women's problems" or are pregnant,

congenital health problems, kidney stones, etc, that require medevac'ing are not included in the Pentagon's wounded figures.

Any injuries/wounds not combat-related aren't included in the "wounded" figures.

However, if the soldier dies from non-combat related wounds/injuries; then he is included in total deaths as "natural causes" or "illness" or "accident", depending on the cause of death.

[LynnTheDem]

48. He's listed.

09-Aug-2004 2 | US: 1 | UK: 1 | Other: 0
US Captain Andrew R. Houghton Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack

UK Private Lee Martin O'Callaghan Basra Hostile - hostile fire

http://icasualties.org/oif/prdDetails.aspx?hndRef=8-2004

[NNN0LHI]

51. He is now. Thanks n/t

[LynnTheDem]

56. He has been since August 9, 2004

I REALLY don't appreciate your remarks. Just because YOU couldn't locate him, don't call us liars.

THANKS.

PS:

And notice how the overall total to date and the total for August 2004 has remained the same; funny how that would be if we, as you so falsely accuse, just updated Houghton now.

There's a reason the ICCC is listed in the US Congressional Library; we don't LIE or try to cover any mistakes by somehow adding names without changing the total numbers.

[NNN0LHI]

60. I didn't call no one no liars. And don't put no words in my mouth either

See ya.

Don

[LynnTheDem]

61. Your statement was FALSE.

Cpt. Houghton has been listed on the ICCC since the day he died.

You can also check the DOD release, also posted on the ICCC;

No. 766-04
IMMEDIATE RELEASE August 10, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DoD Identifies Army Casualty
The Department of Defense announced today the death of a solider who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Capt. Andrew R. Houghton, 25, of Houston, Texas, died on Aug. 9 at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., of injuries sustained on July 10 in Ad Dhuha, Iraq, when a rocket propelled grenade detonated near his vehicle. Houghton was assigned to the 1st Squadron, 4th Cavalry, 1st Infantry Division, Schweinfurt, Germany.

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2004/nr20040810-1104.html

[inchhigh]

64. Thanks

I read your site everyday and I did contribute back when you were at lunaville.

[LynnTheDem]

65. Hiya inchhigh!

You're the first person I've heard on DU mention lunaville. I don't think too many people were ever aware of that blog. We sure did get some rightwingnut lunatics now & then though, lol!

Michael still blogs at lunaville, but I haven't for some time now; my style didn't fit in with what Michael wanted.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[me b zola]

42. Thanks for posting the link/article

The increase of the intensity & number of firefights does not bode well for the men & women who are there or going to be there. I did not hear anything from MSM on the 36 casualties in four hours, my heart is aching. There is so much in that article that gives cause to rail against the chickenhawks who sent our men & women there, but I cannot find the words.

:cry:

[sleipnir]

57. Truly sad, but also truly a waste of much needed money.

Bush is so fucking responsible for the deaths of these brave men and women.

But I can't help but think that the cash it takes to fly their bodies over here just to be taken of life support could be better spent buying body armor, food for the hungry, plane tickets home for the living.

I understand the sacrifice these people give, but I can't see spending the money to ship a living corpse home and sustain that corpse for weeks while other brave men and women face the same fate because they are woefully undercut in support.

Value? At what cost, of more lives? It's not worth it, I believe, if they terminate life support in the field, the family will still have as hard a time dealing with the loss. Perhaps the funds saved will spare more lives and help to end the fucking war.