Gannon + Gosch = BIG MISTAKE: New Coverage a Rove Setup to discredit?

[jackstraw45]

I smell a set-up on this - NOT that Rove CREATED this rumor but that he is urging the media to use it.

THINK about it. This is the way Rove works. The media reports that "people on the internet" are "buzzing" about this connection.

Bam...America pays attention.

Whoosh...story is proven false by media and thus, the REAL story of Jeff Gannon & his white HOuse activities goes down the corporate media toiletbowl as "the guy people thought was this abducted kid" instead of a participant in White House corruption and propaganda.

Gannon-Gosch has NO BEARING on this guy working in the White House press corps and being involved in the leak of a CIA operative.

The MSM & White House may be trying to discredit this story through a false leak of information.

My advise: Don't bite folks. Stay focused.

PS - I'm sure a lot of people criticizing this thread are really happy for Andy to be on TV and for him, and DU, to get coverage in the same MSM that many of us despise. I don't fault that. Nevertheless, if you step back from your joy for Andy getting news coverage, this angle really diminishes the chances of really exposing White House corruption IMO.

[mzmolly]

1. Who are they gonna discredit? DU?

Who cares what they think of DU? It's not our Presidential Candidate who is peddling this story. It's a few DU'ers.

The nude photos of Gannon exist, regardless of wether or not he is Johnny Gosch. And the nude prostitute was given access to shrub so? There's a story either way. And keeping Gannon in the headlines is not a bad thing, regardless.

Rove has nada to do with this, I saw the story here on DU go down. Andy Stephenson definately is not a Rove tool. ;)

[jackstraw45]

6. Listen, not dissing ANYONE here...

So no one gave this info to Andy? He had no sources?

You have to realize that if the media can turn this into a conspiracy theory, they will demolish the real bones of the story which is White House corruption.

Mainstreak Americans are too dumb to distinguish between a false connection with an abducted boy and White House corruption so if the MSM can discredit one, the other will fall too.

Hope I'm wrong but just to be clear, I am NOT implying that ANYONE at DU is a Rove tool. :)

But info that people at DU get sometimes comes from sources and not all sources are on our side.

[mzmolly]

10. No, Andy actually started brainstorming here and had a theory

from what I gather.

I realize your not implying Andy is a tool, hope I didn't insinuate as such. I think if you read the original thread, you'd see that this was an unfolding and not a planted story.

[Clark2008]

19. And I don't even think it was Andy who came up with it

He just followed up on it with Noreen Goesh.
The thread was a Saturday night brainstorming session on GanGuckert.
I was there in live time - as were quite a few DUers.
It really became interesting once we started connecting all the players.

[mzmolly]

40. I recall him starting a thread where things got rolling, but it's possible

his thread was in reply to another?

[flyarm]

26. it was not andy's theory...

someone else noticed a similarity of gannon and j gosch's pictures..andy did not initally make that connection!! it was someone else.

fly

[mzmolly]

39. Yes, but he started the ball rolling on the matter.

I know he didn't suggest it initially.

[flyarm]

56. yes you are sure right mzmolly..

he started it with a question..and i must say..it sure went a long way!!

fly

[flyarm]

15. hard to dispute federal testimony!!

most info andy related was from federal testimony from the franklin coverup, and investigation..all public records...and from federal testimony from paul bonacci...anyone can get this info..try it..you might learn alot you just might not want to know!!

andy loked where reporters were either to lazy or too scared to look!!

fly

[lastliberalintexas]

35. No, it isn't

Testimony is just that, and I have no idea how credible that individual is. But people lie under oath ALL THE TIME. It would make my job much easier if they didn't, but that's not the case.


And I'm not commenting on the veracity of these claims one way or another, since I've mostly avoided the whole Gannon mess in its entirety. I just had to say that it is actually quite easy to dispute testimony, since it happens in every court case in America. :shrug:

[flyarm]

55. well lets put it this way..the judge awarded bonacci a million $$

think he did that out of the goodness of his heart without ever seating a jury to hear the evidence..that ought to give you a clue to this..have you ever seen a judge gice a million out without a jury??

unless he was pretty darn sure the case would make headlines and maybe a jury would award alot more!!

fly

[slaveplanet]

57. thanks for posting that

I'm getting a little tired of all the - "she imagined her son visited her" & "testimony under oath means nothing" replys by people who know nothing of the intimate details of this particular sordid tale....this stuff was nailed down in the wrinkles thread and it's a hassle to rehash it for every Johnny come lately who hasn't done his homework...

[flyarm]

59. ohh you are quite welcome slaveplanet!!

and thank you for being such a great du'er!!

fly:hi:

[lies and propaganda]

86. you two rock and are absolutely correct...

i get violently ill talking about this with the few willing to dicuss it.

Bonacci may have psychological problems, but SO THE FUCK WOULD I, if i suffered the hell I believe he and many other children did.

So hooray Andy, and hooray to all the DUers keeping Gannongate alive, because it is fucked on soooooo many levels,

[lastliberalintexas]

92. I'm not a Johnny come lately to the justice system

Testimony can be very important in trials or hearings, it can be undisputed or hotly contested, and its veracity can often turn on how well received the witness is. It can also mean nothing and be completely discounted by the trier of fact. It is merely *one* component of *all* that is considered in reaching a verdict or decision in a case, and in and of itself is usually not dispositive of the issues.


So, I'm really tired of the replies by people who know nothing of the American judicial system or how it works. I could really give a crap about Gannon or whatever his name is. But I do care about our justice system, and I don't care for people who post inaccuracies concerning legal matters. I responded to a post which said that is was hard to dispute (federal) testimony, when that isn't the case at all, so I pointed that out. Testimony is just the same as any other piece of evidence presented to the trier of fact. And it's immaterial that it was in federal court. Every single witness takes the same oath or affirmation before testifying, regardless of whether that testimony is given in small claims or federal district court.

And obviously all of this stuff was *not* nailed down, if there is no actual proof that he is the kidnapped boy. Speculation and supposition are fine and dandy, but are inadmissible in any court.

[The Magistrate]

62. Technically, Ma'am

What happened was this: the defendant in the suit, being imprisoned and penniless and already disgraced, did not contest the suit. This means that the judge had only the affidavits of the plaintiffs on which to rule in a summary judgement. This is very different from a legal finding of fact: there was no trial, no cross-examination, no rebuttal, and these statements cannot rightly be treated as anything more than unsupported assertion Nor was the award anything more than a token, since there was, and is, no possibility of it being paid.

[flyarm]

71. if my memory suits me, the judge himself questioned

bonacci , and bonacci testified to the judge under oath that some sort of prod was put up him which was heated or electrified, and i do believe in that time frame a 1 million judgment was quite steep, the judge easily could have dismissed the case, he did not.

fly

[BamaBecky]

94. Well even if one lied, what about all the others? Are they liers too? n/t

[Richard Steele]

2. I agree..it's too ODD that the MSM is playing up this BOGUS angle.

The connection was already discredited, Guckert is Guckert.

[mzmolly]

4. Discredited by whom?

:shrug:

Republicans supposedly "discredit" us all the time.

[flyarm]

22. gee seems to me the talking points memo about teri shiavo was discreditied

soooooooooooooooooooo it was the big bad boogy man who did it..it was a fake memo ..remember?? it was the evil doings of the dems..remember??
gee and all the while.. while it was being discredited..mel martinez just let it <slip by> right?? opps couldn't be jebby boy..had to be the most junior fla senator..opps not him ... had to be his lawyers..and they had no clue it was their talking points memo when the media was blaming it on evil dems...but ohhhhhhhhh noooooooooo the talking points were found..so it had to be the don don don don..lawyer for mel martinez....gee..how gullible of me to think..it just couldn't be the repugs after all...nope couldnt be..no sireee..

any bets this lawyer who took the fall shows up as a very rich lobbiest??

1.00 bets..going once , twice , three times...opps outta luck..next scandal please...drum roll please!!!!!!!!!!!

fly

[Alizaryn]

37. I agree, my first thought was hummm,,,,, what are they up to?

[Quixote1818]

3. You have to be kidding! Rove wants Gannon to go away, not come

back to life. The Gannon story was DEAD, this story will only bring a dead story back to life. Their is absolutly NO WAY Rove is behind this.

[mzmolly]

5. A - Greed!

:hi:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

11. Who's "WE" and I'd sure like to see your proof.

Andy is under going Chemo soon, as are many people who get on with life in the meantime.

[Must_B_Free]

16. "WE" is everyone who participated in the Gannon Wrinkle thread series

Including Andy, who is on TV pushing this thing, for who knows what reason.

Are you saying that the Jim Guckert from the high school yearbook photos from the 70s is NOT gannon?

Jeff Gannon Guckert was in highschool in the early 70; therefore he was not 12 years in the 80s.

Or are you saying it involves aliens or clones, which were the only theories advanced after the yearbook photos were retreived?

[mzmolly]

41. I took part in some of the threads, and have not seen this so called

conclusive photo, got it? I'm saying that the Jim Guckert from school in the 70's may NOT be Gannon. And, I don't know WTF this has to do with aliens or clones. For the record, I don't believe in the alien/clone theory :eyes:

[Must_B_Free]

80. How about post 34

are you saying that is not GanGuk in highschool in 1974, which would make it impossible for him to be 12 when Gosch was kidnapped int he 80s?

It's fine if you have some idea how that's possible, I'm certainly in to hearing it.

[mzmolly]

93. Post # 34 certainly looks like Gannon.

But so does Johnny Gosch. However, thanks for providing the pic.

[BamaBecky]

95. Coincidence Theorists

We don't know with absolute certainty that Gannon is the H.S.Guckert. He claims to be, but that doesn't mean that he actually is. And even if he is, there still seems to be "some kind" of connection to Johnny Gosch. Either Gannon is Gosch, or he knows Gosch, or he is "very close" to Gosch.......I think. Why can't Gannon deny this out right? Why hasn't he? Read about the story of Johnny's disappearance....and the trouble Noreen had with the Editor of the De Moines Register...a editor named "Jeff Gannon". A coincidence you say? Johnny's initials were JDG, Jeff Gannon's initials JDG....a coincidence you say? Johnny was pulled into a deviant sex ring, Gannon is alleged to be a male prostitute? Many victims end up in prostitution, a coincidence you say? The information that Noreen was given was the Johnny had shaved his head and changed his appearance, Gannon is slickheaded, a coincidence you say? Look at the photos of Noreen, her ex-husband, and Gannon, see the similarities? A coincidence you say......well okay I'm a coincidence theorists! Why would Gannon slam the door in the face of a reporter asking about a woman in Iowa? Because the question hits way to close to home....the question is HOW CLOSE? And, LOL, some of you think Karl Rove is behind this? Horse shit! Right now he is a cockroach looking for a place to hide. He would give his last dollar to somehow make all of this go away. And if he can find a way to exploit this story...and make democrats look bad....he will! Does that mean we should run from this story? I suggest each individual search their character and their souls for "their" answer.

[wicket]

8. Or to discredit the child sex ring?

[Catchawave]

9. Wouldn't a DNA test settle this once and for all ?

And why wouldn't Gannon answer yes or no to the Are you Gosch question when asked. I figure to extend his 15 minutes of fame :shrug:

[Must_B_Free]

12. Didn't the photos of him in highschool in the 70s settle it?

it did for me and everyone else who doesn't believe it involves aliens or clones....

[fooj]

14. Hi Free...haven't run into you in a while!

How've you been? In this case, REALITY IS stranger then fiction. Indeed.

Peace!

[flyarm]

27. not for me it didnt...nor noreen gosch! n/t

[Must_B_Free]

34. So you're saying this isn't the same person?

[Kingofalldems]

44. That's him alright

And if they are from a mid 70's hs yearbook---there is no more discussion. He could not be Gosch and this story is a total diversion from the real story of how he got into the WH.

[Ladyhawk]

79. Agree...why is this being pursued?

The only reason I can think of is to discredit the whole Guckert / Gannon story. I didn't know what the "Gannon Wrinkles" threads were about, but honestly, people! Where did you get this weird-ass idea? It's so way out there I'm almost embarrassed for you. :(

Damn. I hate saying that, but it's how I feel. Following this angle will make us all look stark-raving mad. :( I suppose I could go digging through the Gannon Wrinkles threads, but it seems a waste of time since this picture is obviously Guckert / Gannon. End of debate.

[BamaBecky]

96. No, No, No, No.......that's still very much a part of the story! n/t

[Vektor]

61. Wait a minute...

That top picture - the one of him with the longish hair - is it supposed to be Jeff Gannon as a kid? Or is it supposed to be a photo of the vanished boy, John Gosch? I am just tuning into this aspect of the story, so pardon the ignorance on my part. :-)

[The Magistrate]

63. The Pictures At the Top, Ma'am

Are Guckert, from his high school yearbook....

[Vektor]

66. Oh, ok...

The point is that he is too old to be the same kid. I get it. I just started following the whole Gannon/Gosch thing within the hour. Thanks for the clarification.

[flyarm]

13. ohh please the msm discounted this whole gannon story from the get go..

this has been off the pages here for a couple weeks now..and gannon isn't exactly hiding..he was at the press thing today and on c-span this morning...
congress already said no investigation...and now rove wants to bring it up again?? rove wants to make this headlines to get people talking about it again??

rove wants it boiling again..?? i think not..msm had already dropped it like a dead fly...

opps...no dead fly here!!

fly

[fooj]

25. Geez...

I run into you AGAIN!! Imagine that!

Peace!

[flyarm]

28. fooj..are you following me?? lol.....

me thinks i have a shadow!!..lol....you are soooo cute!!..lol...fly

[Frederik]

17. Nobody was talking about it anyway

so why bother bringing it into the light only to discredit it?

[Dookus]

18. because it confuses two separate issues

People ask "What's this thing about Gannon?" and hear the idea that Gannon = Gosch. Then when that is shot down, people forget about the REAL issue.

It's exactly what happened with the Rather-gate memos. They were able to turn the scandal away from what the memos said (which was true and unchallenged) and focus only on their provenance. When they discounted the source of the memos, they effectively discounted their content.

[jackstraw45]

21. EXACTLY what I'm trying to say

You just said it better.

It's confusing the two issues and is, in my opinion, "Access Hollywood"izing SERIOUS CORRUPT ACTIVITIES of this White House.

[Quixote1818]

24. But the story was Dead. Why take a chance? What would be the point?

[Dookus]

33. I'm not of the belief that Rove is behind this...

I don't think it's important enough to warrant his involvement. This was ALWAYS a very minor scandal.

But my point still stands that confusing the two issues, then deflating one of them, will have the effect of deflating both.

[Frederik]

53. Yeah, I understand that

But people had forgotten all about the "real" issue anyway, that was my point. Nobody seemed to care that there was a Republican prostitute in the White House. So why bother?

[Sparkly]

20. I understand what you're saying, but consider this...

Even IF it's discredited, look at all the things the discredit brings up:

"No, the gay prostitute phony-journalist with unwarranted access to the White House who aided Bush and McClellan in press conferences was NOT the missing child involved in a pedophilia and prostitution ring scandal from the former Bush White House."

Having said that, I didn't see Andy on MSNBC today and I don't know how the MSM is spinning it.

[Swamp Rat]

23. Have you seen this person?

[bush_is_wacko]

29. Look, all it really requires is a simple DNA test to discredit...

Why doesn't Gannon offer up some DNA? Why won't he either deny or confirm the story. BTW, I think some here are missing the point of this story. We need to locate some kids. We need to make sure they are alright. It isn't about Gannon and his White House connection at the moment although that is obviously PART of the story. Noreen Gosch deserves an answer and so do a whole lot of other people. Let Rove work his magic. Unless Noreen and Gannon get DNA swabs and then a "credible" unconnected source gives "the public" results we have nothing but speculation going on and that is unacceptable. The story has grown too large for the White House to continue to ignore and use bait and switch tactics.

BTW, the discredited stories that you mention have never really been investigated in full. All Rove accomplished by outing Rather is to discredit RATHER. He did NOT discredit the actual STORY. None of the ACTUAL stories have been discredited or confirmed. You realize this don't you?

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

36. Yup

Rove probably didn't invent this "link", but he and others like him certainly view it as a gift from the heavens.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

49. to be fair

the admins DID put the kibosh on this story after they realized the same accusers maintain that Rep. Barney Frank was part of this child-sex ring.

It was only recent media developments that have caused this upsurge in perpetuating this insanity.

And I agree with your analysis entirely - the way people here put facts together to draw conclusions makes me hope none of them are ever on a jury if I were to be accused.

[kenny blankenship]

85. Too bad people can't see that analysis anymore

Its disappearance kind of proves my point though.

[BuyingThyme]

64. Here's how bad it's gotten:

When you state the obvious -- that Gannon is not the abductee in question -- you get accused of supporting the cause of child abduction.

Crazy.

[troubleinwinter]

81. Good job of not crossing DU's rules

yet still managing to call your fellow DUers:

"nutcases, idiotic, nutjobs, demented, running amok, spreading shit aberrant behavior, crazy and deranged"

These are not words I am used to reading here from DUers about other DUers. I more frequently see them posted on another site against us.

[Sparkle]

82. And yet the post stays....

Yikes!

[RAF]

31. I mentioned this in the beginning of the week

on another board. After months of the msm avoiding the Gannon story, the National Press Club announces a discussion panel on "who is a journalist" with Gannon as the center figure (it aired on C-Span 2 today). This past Monday a Des Moines newspaper runs a full length article on the same Gannon/Gosch story mentioning DU and basically painting bloggers as tinfoil hat wearers but still mentioning the interesting coincidences of the story. Now out of the blue MSNBC runs the same story with the same under tone of tinfoil hat wearers and also again showing the compelling coincidences.

I totally agree with jackstraw, be careful. At a minimum something isn't right here. There is no way after months of silence 3 major outlets offer a major story on Gannon (that DKos has shown to be BS) without some major people controlling the strings. This has set up written all over it.

[Must_B_Free]

42. Not to mention

that it died on DU quite a while ago due to the fact that a DUer followed up and got pics of Jim Guckert from his highschool yearbook in the early 70s and that kid looks more like Jeff Gannon than John Gosch does.

Not to mention that the 70s Jim Guckert would be the same age Gannon claims to be where as he would have a 10 year discrepancy if he were John Gosch.

This looks like a setup to discredit the blogs and I have to wonder why Andy walked into this for us, since he clearly saw the yearbook photos from the 70s in the "wrinkle" threads.

[RAF]

50. further

Although I do believe they would love to cast all bloggers as unreliable and kooky the bigger story they want to discredit totally is Gannon having any affiliation with the White House etc.

So typical of Rove's past behavior he tries to get one simple part of a story discredited so the real main story is soon forgotten and cast as nonsense.... aka Tang documents CBS.

[Sparkle]

90. There is no way Gannon can be disaffiliated with the White House.

There are videos and pictures of him in the press room from 2 years asking Bush and his people questions AND there are nude pics of Gannon/Guckert and his manhood splattered all over the internet.

WHITE HOUSE + GANNON + BUSH + PRESS ROOM + FLEISCHER + McCLELLAN + DICK PICS + GANNON/GUCKERT

Sorry, that can't be erased! Gannon didn't leave marks but he certainly left an impression!

[Malva Zebrina]

32. I agree

This is sensationalism and tin foil hat. It is coming off as an absurdity. There is not much containing any common sense in the entire proposition.

I think it sets us up. I think Rove would indeed encourage this.

Gosch is NOT Gannon/Guckert

Until this mother of Gosch comes forth and states that Gannon is NOT or IS her disappeared son, there is absolutely NOTHING of ANY thing here. She is the key and she has NOT come forth.

That should present a clue.

Why it is not, is baffling to me.

She has refused to commit, even though she says her son did come to visit her a few years ago and that she saw him in person.

Please--common sense, in spite of the energy and passion involved--please use common sense. This whole pursuit is an absurdity.

[lastliberalintexas]

38. That does sound crazy

After reading this thread, I'd have to say that there are way too many side issues in this matter for anyone to really know what's truly going on. It certainly sounds like the perfect vehicle by which to discredit the left/internet reporters and journalists.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jackstraw45]

45. Thanks for the background.

But a lot of people are seeing DU for the first time today because of MSNBC.

Instead of reading about a fake reporter and CIA outings, they are reading about a missing Iowa boy.

I think we're on the wrong track here.

[Dookus]

46. How so?

I thought someone said Andy never mentioned DU.

[jackstraw45]

52. My mistake!

Disregard that comment. :)

But I know the Des Moines article mentions DU and it has obviously distracted this board.

[slaveplanet]

48. Well you need to read

the article that DU wont let be linked here...In many ways it goes farther than the wrikles thread, and ties the coincidence together in a weave , that is VERY convincing that more needs to looked into.

I forgot to add ...that newspanel today may be the result of the decision that went against the DEMS in regard to looking into the presspass situation ...a consolation prize if you may

[Donailin]

51. Yeah, desensitize the viewers so that when the real story is exposed

folks just shrug and say, "those silly bloggers, don't they have anything better to do?"

[Jose Diablo]

54. Am I the only one here that remembers how Minneapolis was gonna

get nuked right before the election. Or was it SeaTac.

Remember?

The guy that escaped from the Canadian authorities and claimed prior knowledge of 9-11. And how after escaping Canada he crossed into the USA and was on the run for 2-3 years. Then he was captured in what, DesMoines I think it was. And he called a friend, somebody here DU that is popular. And confided with him that somebody was gonna nuke a metropolitain center so martial law could be declared and suspend the 2004 election. And this information was unimpeachable in reality. But it never happened.

Remember? Did SeaTac get nuked? Did Minneapolis get nuked? Did anything whatsoever happen, other that election fraud in Ohio and Florida in the November time frame?

I will never, never make a campaign contribition to anyone that is popular on DU as an ongoing contributor ever again. I think its too easy here to gain popularity.

I am somewhat progressive and clearly on the left side of the dial and a member of the Democratic party, but the BS here does get deep sometimes.

[kohodog]

58. How many of your co-workers, relatives or acquaintenances

have ever heard of Guckert/Gannon?

The whole story is so far below most American's radar I find it hard to believe Rove would counteract it with a story that would be truely explosive if true. He'll stay away from it until the fire gets a whole lot closer in my opinion.

[peacetalksforall]

60. What I find mind boggling is the list that has evolved from the latest

theories –

Jeff Gannon
James Guckers
Jeff Gosch
James Gannon

It’s almost rhythmical.

So, Jeff Gosch, the young newspaper delivery boy disappears in the late 1980’s. His mother is said to believe that he was kidnapped by people in a neighboring state and used in a boy-child sex and/or porn ring. The name of the Editor of the Des Moines Register at the time Jeff disappeared was James Gannon. Ironically, one of those implicated in the Nebraska ring was an Editor of a NE newspaper.

Whether or not Jeff Gosch and Jeff Gannon’s age checks out or whether or not the DNA checks out or whether Jeff Gosch knew the name of the Editor of the paper he worked for or whether Jeff Gosch ever met Jeff Gannon…you’ve got to admit it is bizarre, amazing, and possibly beyond fiction or an original screenplay.

I say, investigate it to the finish. Unravel the bizarre.

[slaveplanet]

65. Thats not the half of it

There are many more bizarre coincidences, including two or three in February of this year(suicides ,arrests). That make it seem like it has to be Gosch...yet we have the HS pictures from the 70's, Now Gannon is a known liar, and the frat members (most 20 years his junior) thought he might be a spook. But....

The evidence still leads toward him not being Gosch...Only DNA will change that.

see the problem...

[flyarm]

72. its johnny gosch...just for the record to be straight...

no offense intended , but we need to keep the names correct as much as possible. its johnny gosch...jeff gannon.

fly

[peacetalksforall]

77. Thanks. Big mistake. But...still a J, by gosh. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

67. I personally don't know too much about this ordeal

but from what I have read I just don't think they're one in the same. :shrug: Just me personally. And you could be right about this being a setup. Why else would Rove be talking about this? If it was true he'd be trying to hide it. And I remember reading a statement by some guy who had claimed he was working on the Gosch story for years and thought it was him. Anybody know any info on this person and their background? Could he be a Rove plant? This guy (Rove) is truly evil and if you've seen "Bush's Brain" and have studied him yourself then you know. I personally would forget about this angle. They're using it to try to hide how he got there and that is where the story lies. How did a hooker get into the White House and a few inches close to the most powerful person in the freeworld to ask ridiculous nonsense question's? My guess is through McClellan. They both have Texas ties (Gucker did live there a while) and McClellan has been rumored to be at gay bars and Guckert probably went to gay bars to get customers and his reputation and to sell his "business."

[slaveplanet]

69. when was Rove

Talking about Gannon/Gosch ?
link please

[ramblin_dave]

68. Where did the original idea that Gannon = Gosch come from?

I missed that part. Gosch's mother said Stephenson called her. But where did Stephenson get this idea?

[Sparkle]

78. From the DU wrinkle threads...

[enid602]

70. gannon/gosch

To me, it doesn't really matter whether or not Gannon is Gosch. But for some reason, a lot of clues have been left to connect the two. Johnny D. Gosch = JDG. James D. Guckert = JDG. Jeff Gannon (is his middle initial a 'D.' as well?) is a possible JDG. Jeff Gannon's name is similar to James D. Gannon (then editor of the Des Moines Register, who published Noreen Gosch's letter on page 1 in 1982 to discredit her): another JDG. On another DU thread, a DU-er noted that Gannon posted (on his jeffgannon.com website) a reference to 'JDG17,' a popular way of citing Bible verse. Judges 17 tells the story of a boy who was stolen from his family to live in a foreign culture.

It's almost as if someone wants us to connect the two. Many have said this effort is some sort of Rovian attempt to discredit left-wing bloggers, but why would anyone in the RW want to unearth long-dormant pedophile scandals, especially given that they lead back to RW leaders?

[RAF]

75. one reason is

using Rove's past scams, he often takes stories that hold truth, repackages them so one key aspect is proven completely false there by giving avenue to say the entire story is false by association.

I don't think anyone has said Rove created this Gannon/Gosch story.
What's being said is he may be using it to totally discredit any association between the White House and Gannon.

[kenny blankenship]

83. Jaimie Gum/ John Grant

and what does this have to do with Silence of the Lambs? Why nothing at all. But the initials are the same.

MY GOD THINK OF THE ODDS AGAINST SUCH A COINCIDENCE!

And what does your link of Gosch with Guckert consist of?
WHy nothing, nothing at all.

Ignoring in 5,4,3,2,1...

[AntiFascist]

88. I'm trying desparately not to get distracted by this, but....

what is Johnny D. Gosch's full middle name?

[susanna]

73. I felt the same way about Rathergate.

Too convenient; it cast doubt on *'s less-than-stellar (OK, crappy) TANG service. In doing so, it nullified it. I think you might be right on this one - same stench, different day.

[Sparkle]

74. The show was great but they need new anchors.

They stunk!

Here's my take on why Gannon just won't come out and say "No, I am not Johnny Gosch". He won't give a yes or no answer because he wants to use this tragic story to his advantage. Think about it, all he has to say is no and then move on with his life. But if he doesn't really answer, then he gets to get people talking about why won't he answer blah blah blah. Hence, he stays in the news. If this is the case, he ought to be ashamed of himself. Although he did sympathize with Mrs. Gosch, that doesn't give him the right to want to use this at her son's expense.

And this crap about if he answer one question, he will have to answer many others is complete hogwash.

[ebayfool]

87. Bo Dietl is a big GOP supporter, I wouldn't trust him on this stuff.

If he's now so concerned w/improprieties (Gannon) connected w/the white house, you can bet your last dollar he's doing it for someone else. There's lots of evil in the gop/government/whoever ... rove isn't the only asshole that might want to discredit notions of jimmy/jeff getting checked out. The man & his company has alot of ties to the white house that just don't make me feel that he is out to find any hard truths, especially if they embarress any one connected to the current regime. Richard "Bo" Dietl also goes by Beau Dietl, of Beau Dietl & Associates.

http://www.beaudietl.com/default.html
snip/
Oct.22.2003
The Wall Street Journal — The pharmaceutical industry's newest political weapon isn't another well-heeled lobbyist but a New York gumshoe paid as much as $2,500 a day to warn Congress against easing restrictions on importing drugs. Richard "Bo" Dietl, a tough-talking former New York City police detective, has been spending two or three days a week here, briefing lawmakers and aides on an investigation he conducted into Internet prescription-drug sales.




http://www.computercop.com/bodietl.html
snip/
Currently, Mr. Dietl is Chairman and CEO of Beau Dietl Associates (BDA), an investigative firm that he founded. The firm boasts a client list that includes Columbia Pictures, Coca-Cola, Grey Advertising , PaineWebber, Lehman Brothers, Bankers Trust and the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia. Mr. Dietl was appointed by then President of the United States, George Bush, as Co-Chairman of the National Crime Commission in 1989, and chosen as Security Consultant to the National Republican Party Convention in 1992 and 1996.


http://clerk.house.gov/pd/houseID.html?reg_id=36813
Active lobbyist registrant House of Representatives
BEAU DIETL & ASSOCIATES (1)

Client Name House ID
PHARMACEUTICAL RESEARCH & MANUFACTURERS OF AMERICA 36813000

http://www.beaudietl.com/bd_aboutrocque.htm
His Senior Security Consultant, Michael R. Rocque was coordinator with the Bush North Carolina Campaign Committee during the 2000 election cycle.

-------------
I know there's something hidden in the jimmy/jeff story, but I really do think that the sudden attention paid by this guy to the Gosch aspect is a diversion to keep people from looking at whatever they ARE hiding. The whole story seems just to much like a breadcrumb trail, designed to lead AWAY from something else. It's too pat, too easy. It looks as though 'whoever' has realized that the web isn't going to quit looking, so it's nudging - look over here! Doesn't matter if the internet is the only place talking @ Guckert, sooner or later someone is going to find the right hidey-hole & it spills over. Better to encourage the link w/Gosch to discredit anything else that follows.

Just saying - watch your six, folks!

[Ladyhawk]

76. It's way too tinfoil-hat for me.

Sorry, but I don't buy it, especially in light of the high school pics.

LH

[JackRiddler]

84. What's so reasonable about seeing Rove behind everything?

Some thoughts after reading the above:

"Rove is pushing this" is now the official replacement conspiracy theory for all those who are averse to all the other conspiracy theories. The all-powerful Rove as some kind of genius mastermind, as though the mentality of the school bully were something rare in politics.

My guess: this very bad show on MSNBC wanted to fill some air time and decided to go with the most salacious story that has guaranteed appeal to a demographic they wouldn't normally reach (left-liberal) without actually presenting much material or producing any conclusions. Promise a follow-up and you can fill further airtime on a later show.

Gannon is almost certainly not Gosch.

Nevertheless, "Rove" is not behind this.

Those who pursue the Gosch-Gannon idea are not crazy.

All Gannon-related air time is a spark ina very combustible atmosphere. I doubt any Gannon story is pleasing the White House at the moment.

Gannon is a loose cannon and if he was never abducted as I child still I wouldn't be surprised if he were to mysteriously disappear tomorrow.

[rman]

89. Not behind everything,

but behind many of the more unlikely stories that could presumably help to discredit critics of this administration.

unlikey stories such as:

'Major TV network investigative journalist fails to double check his only source regarding the president being a deserter.'

'Gannon is result of CIA mind manipulation program.'

There may be such programs, but it should be obvious that the US public is not ready to go with that assertion; in the public mind it's excedingly easy to dismiss it as crackpot conspiracy theory. Result: the whole Gannon affair is discredited, exactly what the administration would like to happen.

Got anything to back up your claim that "Rove is not behind this"?

[JackRiddler]

91. as a reasonable guy you should know...

I could not and don't have to "back" "Rove is not behind this." You have to put up evidence first in support of your positive assertion. So far what you present is of the general circumstantial variety (i.e., it may make sense in the largest context).

I think the way it actually played out on the show demonstrates that even if the Gosch idea ends up dismissed, the swirl of questions around Gannon makes the WH look bad. Male prostitute with no background and bogus front org gets coveted credentials and favorable treatment to lob obviously arranged softballs.

So, how come all these "real" WH journalists - who have the resources to figure out who everyone is and should have plenty of motivation to find out more about the impostor in the midst - have not come up with a capsule bio for Gannon? Isn't that suspicious to you?

This doesn't mean he's Gosch, it does suggest strongly that something's being concealed.

I expect the Gosch angle is a possible distraction, but a desperate one. How does it help to discredit the Gannon story by recalling past, well-substantiated White House pedophilia allegations?

I have after sleeping on it come to the hypothesis that Gannon is intentionally allowing the Gosch angle to live on, in his own desperate attempt to keep the confusion factor high.