Did anyone else find the APPLAUSE at the funeral a bit disturbing?

[Radio_Lady]

I woke up at 3 AM Pacific Time to watch the funeral. For most of the time, the audience was clapping.

I guess it's an American custom, but funerals here are usually somber and applauding would be the last thing I'd think of doing if I were at a funeral. It was very ceremonial and a real pageant. However, I wish that Jimmy Carter had been there instead of Laura Bush.

Any other comments?

[theboss]

1. I thought the applause came at appropriate times

They weren't applauding during prayers or readings. It came mostly during the homily. I think it's impractical to expect tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people who traveled who knows how long to stand quietly for two hours. They wanted to express their love for the man and did so.

I also think being outside had an impact on the crowd. Inside a cathedral, it's solemn. In the sun, it is not.

[Radio_Lady]

3. Good point -- I never thought of it that way! By the way,

I never saw a photo of anyone with a gun or on a rooftop -- with all that security, perhaps the TV director(s) just didn't focus on that aspect of the ceremony.

[queeg]

2. Best part was the Boos for chimpy

[Radio_Lady]

5. Thanks for mentioning that link. He gets booed and jeered --

wherever he goes --the MSM never reports it.

[DemGirl7]

20. ABC reported that Chimpy got booed at

Because I talked to my older sister this morning, and I usually talk politics over the phone with her, and I mentioned that I heard that Bush got booed at by the crowd outside St.Peter's from here, and she said that she knew about it all about it already, because they said on ABC. Which I found very shocking.

[yellowdogintexas]

4. don't know if it is a European thing, but when we were in Toledo

Spain, wandering about the Cathedral, we found this room which had portraits of all the Bishops of Toledo, many of whom were also Cardinals, along with assorted memorabilia etc. This frail little white haired priest came to close the room up as we were leaving it and he stepped in to the room, bowed at each wall of portraits, then applauded them, genuflected and backed out of the room. Obviously a ritual, obviously intended to show the utmost respect to those who had been Bishops of this great cathedral. It was quite moving to see.

So maybe it is something peculiar to European clergy?

[Radio_Lady]

6. Interesting comment. Perhaps someone might know.

[n2mark]

7. This is Friday evening at 9:14p

That was one of the things that bothered me was the clapping. On the other hand I've noticed this in church lately.

Funerals are no longer somber, it now is considered a resurrection, life, happiness and freedom. Actually from what I have been told one does not wear black at a funeral. Death is suppose to a happy event. Those who die go to a better place with God.

I didn't see this discussed before and hope you are not offended. This is what I 'm learning at 63.

As much as I complain regarding my church, I love my church. Maybe not my church but what I have received spirituality from it.

Times change and I go with the flow.

[Radio_Lady]

8. My only exposure to this has been a few Jewish funerals which --

took place years ago. They were pretty somber. Later, a friend of my daughter died at 21. They played the Bette Midler song "Wind Beneath My Wings" at her service.

The only exposure I've had to applause in a religious environment was at Unitarian-Universalist churches. The one in Massachusetts suggested hands above the head, waving -- instead of applause. The one in Oregon suggests the gentle sound of rubbing hands together -- rather than applause.

Come to think of it, there was a lot of applause at the Easter Service, which was not somber at all. Many people wore funny hats and we all had a real good time!

That's what I'm learning at 65! Each week, we sing this:

The river is flowing,
Flowing and growing
The river is flowing,
Down to the sea.

Father, carry me
Child I will always be
Mother, carry me
Down to the sea.

[theboss]

10. I've actually had the honor of giving two eulogies

And my dad has given a few over the years. Obviously, a funeral is a somber occasion but it really should be a celebration of the person's life and a celebration that he or she is now with his creator. Of course, that may change given the circumstances of the death. It's hard to look at the funeral of a 22-year-old as a "celebration" for example.

But the Pope was old and had been suffering for years. He was also well prepared to meet God. He lived a joyous life and had successes few men can even dream of.

Why not celebrate? Why not laugh and cheer and show love?

[demosincebirth]

9. When I was in Rome, I went to see the Pope at St Peters square.

When he started circling the masses in his pope mobile, I started whistling. I thought whistling equated to cheering, not in Rome, I guess, because I was really getting some mean looks and shushing from the Italians.

[RiDuvessa]

17. In Europe,

Whistling=Booing. Very bad protocol to whistle at the Pope.

[Maple]

11. Applause is a sign of respect there

Whistling is definitely not.

[MADem]

12. It's a perspective thing

If you look at the writings of JP2, as well as the basis of the faith it makes sense. The bulk of the mourning bit took place BEFORE the funeral, but once the funeral starts, the perception is that he has gone to the Home of the Father where he will live forever. There was still some emotion, but the crowd drove the whole sentiment, which was a combo of respect, mourning, cheering the legacy, and joy in that he got where he wanted to go.

Actually, they aren't cheering the Pope's body in the casket, they are cheering his legacy. I could not help but notice during the mass as well as the viewing of the body that only the Catholic reporters were careful to term the corpse "the Pope's Body" whilst others said "The Pope." In Catholic teaching, the Pope, like Elvis, had already left the building. Thus, the mass was a celebration of his life and works, an opportunity to revisit these things, and the applause was appropriate.

Ratzinger may be a tough, old, conservative SOB, but he blew them away with his recollections of JP2, in perfect, clear, slightly German-accented Italian. It was a stunning performance.

One key point--there were a number of faithful there, many from Poland, who were determined to do a Leo/Benedictus type thing--thus the shouts of MAGNUS (the Great) and the many signs amongst the national flags, that said, in assorted languages "SAINTHOOD NOW!!!!"

This was not a standard catholic funeral, though--if you go to your neighbor's funeral at St. Augustine's, you won't see that sort of thing at all. It was probably sixty to seventy percent religious observance, with the remainder being a mix of religious pride, national pride (huge Polish contingent), lobbying for sainthood, and an acknowledgement by the world community of JP2's political influence as a Head of State.

All in all, I thought they did a great job of it--and I am a critic of the church.

[coda]

13. Not really. This a.m., seeing the cheering (John Paul, John Paul!!) and

the banners and flags and clapping and I remembered how all the RW's and their pundits slammed the Wellstone funeral for it's enthusiasm, some calling it a rock concert. They really slammed it for the booing of Trent Lott.


Minus the difference in music, (and the fact fact they booed * instead of Lott :bounce: ), they were very similar.

It seemed to me, with so much emotion, it was more a case of respect then disrespect, at both events.

Can you imagine three hours of people being somber, low key, and "repectful" at this funeral? I can't.

No more than I could imagine it at Wellstones memorial service.

[Hardrada]

14. Excellent comparison.

I had to argue with so many people that the Wellstone memorial was conducted in a spirited way he would have loved. The spin on that was extra-vicious.

[Cooley Hurd]

15. What did you expect after that guitar solo?

;)

[GoldenOldie]

16. Americans are so very ignorant of other cultures

It is common for europeans to applaud when they have high respect of someone. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

As Americans we boast of our culture yet are unwilling to open our hearts and minds to the various cultures throughout the world...how sad.

[Cooley Hurd]

18. This American isn't...

I was making a joke (hence the winkie-smiley).:hi:

[Radio_Lady]

19. GoldenOldie, I posted the initial question in an effort to learn --

not due to ignorance nor any unwillingness to open my mind and heart. We have hosted exchange students in our home. Also, we have travelled to the following countries in our lives: Canada, China, Egypt, England, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Mexico, Scotland, Spain, Thailand, and perhaps some others I may have omitted.

I am well aware of the importance of knowing local customs, it's just that I don't recall the last Pope's funeral very well -- and don't get to any European style funerals at all.

I appreciate your understanding.





Radio_Lady
"Support our troops -- bring them home in ONE PEACE!"

[Algorem]

21. thought it was wierd at end when everyone stood and held lit lighters up

but then there was no encore.No fucking encore?