Why do people like Bush? - Hopefully a serious discussion

[Dirty Hippie]

I have been trying to play mental "devils advocate" and come up with reasons people like Bush and his policies.

1) People believe that he is aggressive in fighting terrorism (his rhetoric makes them feel safer).

2) They don't seem to mind if civil rights are violated. I think they feel that abuses are directed at immigrants and they probably believe America is for Americans - to hell with immigrants.

3) Bush's militarism appeals to their since of superiority and they feel that we should reshape the Middle East. They are wrong, we are right.

4) Fundies believe that Bush is divinely inspired.

5) I’ve found that conservative small business owners seem to believe that the Republicans are more supportive of business, basically because they perceive they are for less taxation.

6) They view social programs with distain. Everyone should be able to live well if they work hard.

Anyone care to add? Please skip the more emotional reasons; we already know what those are!

[Punkingal]

1. Also....

people seem to have bought the idea that he is just an "average" guy...someone they are comfortable with.

[TomNickell]

2. A few tries....

1. The Fundies see him as one of their own. He's the first Repub who actually seems to believe their crap.

2. He has essentially operated unopposed. During the campaign the press simply failed to do its job. Gore -inexplicably- never tried to make an issue of Bush's severe limitations and questionable personal history. As a result many people still see the image the Bushies pushed--the dynamic, successful business tycoon.

3. After 9/11 a trained monkey would have become a popular leader.

3. The popularity is exaggerated. He's tied himself to the flag and the troops, so people are reluctant to tell the stranger taking the opinion poll they think he is a fool. Talk to ordinary people; there is a lot of disquiet even from pretty conservative folk.

[nannygoat]

41. Tom, re: your point #2

Al Gore could not catch a break with the mediawhores spinning FOR * and against him 24/7! Check out this excellent series at the Daily Howler:

WHY GOOD GUYS SLEPT (PART 4)! Why did “good guy” pundits sleep? Citizens should demand explanations:
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh122002.shtml

For example consider the results from a Pew/Project for Excellence study:

<snip>
Which “character themes” did the study select? Again, Pew identified three common themes about each hopeful. In each case, two themes were negative, one was positive. Here were the three common themes for Candidate Bush:

1.Bush is a different kind of Republican (positive).
2.Bush lacks the intelligence or knowledge for the job (negative).
3.Bush has relied heavily on family connections to get where he is (negative).

Here were the three common themes for Gore:

1.Gore is experienced and knowledgeable (positive).
2.Gore is scandal tainted (negative).
3.Gore exaggerates or lies (negative).

<snip>
The data were startling. In Bush’s case, the positive theme—“Bush is a different kind of Republican”—was the dominant theme by far, found in 320 stories. By contrast, the most common Gore theme was negative—“Gore is scandal tainted”—which was found in 344 stories. On balance, Gore’s negative themes appeared far more often. The contrast between the two hopefuls is stunning. Here was the actual breakdown:

Gore: 613 negative stories, 132 positive stories
Bush: 265 negative stories, 320 positive stories

[leftyandproud]

3. bottom line

He appeals to his BASE...and fights everything the left believes in...He doesn't give a shit what we think of him, and the bigots on the right love it

huge tax cuts...huge military spending hikes...US dominance worldwide, good vs evil...YEAH!
Ronald Reagan to the 10th power


*puke*

[Warpy]

4. He has a simple "vision"

...and this appeals to the simple minded. They can understand his limited, black vs white view of every issue. They love his certainty, and have great faith that his certainty will be founded in fact eventually. Also, he appeals to the average wimp who dreams of projecting a macho image. I'm sure every sofa spud who's dreamed of being the star of his own war movie (although he's never considered enlisting), rearranged his crotch to the sight of W alighting from that fighter plain on the Lincoln.

It's going to be a hard sell to convince these folks that W really is a pantywaist, a liar, and a coward. I'm sure it can be done, but be pepared for a long fight.

[DarbyUSMC]

11. He is a good salesman/liar and could

sell A/C in Siberia. If he says it is night, people buy it even though it is day. They like the cowboy image. He includes flag waving phrases in all of his speeches. Every now and then he shows his humor and that makes people feel he is "one of us". One day though, the roof will fall in. It looks as though it has started.

[priller]

5. I heard this on the radio the other night

I think it was the Neil Boortz show (ugh, I know), and the caller's remarks went something like this:

"It's obvious Bush is going to win in 2004. I mean, who else can beat him? Look, Bush don't take no--well, I don't want to say it--but Bush don't take no shit from nobody. Ha ha! He'll win easy."

So there is at least one segment of the population who really loves all of Bush's absurd "tough talk" macho bullshit. Of course, it never occurs to them that Bush's posturing doesn't affect El Smirko himself--it's the troops that pay for it.

[thx1138A]

6. Some musings on right wing psychology

1) This may be too much psychoanlysis but here goes...

I think the hard core Bush supporters are overcompensating for some real / or perceived lack of power over their own lives... and projecting their power fantasies onto Bush. (e.g. I can't kick butt at work, but Bush can do whatever he wants with those annoying Iraqis, Syrians, Iranians, Democrats, whoever.) I've noticed that a lot of the really right wing people I know always have an undercurrent of anger and frustration in their lives and tend to be in jobs, life situations where they don't have much control over events (lower middle management cube dweller in a downsizing company -- remember the Michael Douglas movie where the frustarted aerospace worker goes on a rampage in L.A.?? ). This type loves the macho rhetoric and posturing... the images of Bush landing on the aircraft carrier... the lack of manners and etiquette. In turn they are turned off by 'smart' people -- think Gore, Clinton, or, going back to the 50's Adlai Stevenson -- who they find intimidating. (Gore did not do himself any favors by always being so pedantic). They are also more fearful of life in general, which goes to your fist point about Bush making them feel safer.

2) Many Americans -- and I think the majority of Bush hard-core supporters -- are not well-informed. They don't make connections between bad policies and future outcomes (+$40 billion a year for Iraq = lack of investment in schools in 2006). They are not curious and become interested only when events/policies impact them in the most direct way and only in the here and now. That's why so many elections are won or lost on the economy.

---

I wish someone would do a large scale study comparing pesonality traits to political allegiance / beliefs...

[Dirty Hippie]

9. I think the large scale study is an excellent idea.

I'm going to google around and see if it has been done.

[Woodstock]

20. I'm thinking along your lines

they are uninformed

they WANT to stay uninformed (and thus fool themselves)

[shimmergal]

27. You're onto something here.

Being intelligent and/or educated is a definite drawback with a certain part of the electorate. It's related to their own feelings of inferiority. To have a president (sic) who comes across as a dummy, doesn't know much about the wider world and doesn't want to know, tells them they must be OK too.

As for power fantasies and personality traits. There's one study
that showed conservatives have more nightmares, and scarier ones, than liberals. I don't have a citation for it, alas.

[priller]

7. And then I have a "Christian" friend

who is absolutely, completely, 100% fooled by Bush's fundie rhetoric. She believes that Bush is a "good Christian man, who's not afraid to talk about his faith", and as a result she is totally blind to what Bush really does.

I say "Christian", in quotes, because she's about as true to Jesus as Smirky himself--she's the wealthy, materialistic, Pharisaical type of Christian, so no doubt she see's a kindred spirit in Bush.

You ask why people like his policies. I don't think Bush's supporters have the first clue about his policies, other than tax cuts (which doesn't help out most of them) and the "tough talk" on terrorism and Saddam (so far a costly disaster).

[U4ikLefty]

43. Have you hit her with this one yet?

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." - Mark 10:25

I love to watch the Repubs squirm with this one!!!

[Jekl]

8. My View

The ordinary citizen that likes bush pays no attention to what is going on around them. They are caught up in their little world of
soccer or soap operas and really dont give a darn about what goes on.
Im serious, you might call them bubble heads or air heads. They dont have a clue and they dont want to know anything outside of their little world. If you ask them anything political they side step it because they are ignorant of their surroundings. These are the only people who like bush.

[lastliberalintexas]

12. I wouldn't say they are the ONLY ones who like Shrub

but the uninformed/apathetic account for a large part of his support.

I do believe that there are some who believe he was sent by God to "restore" the Middle East (if they don't believe he is the Second Coming, even). And some who like his cowboy rhetoric and his "get tough on them Islamists" mouthing. And some who support his tax and social policies b/c they are uber wealthy and don't think they need gov't services. And some who like the bigoted stands that he usually takes.

Those people are marginally informed and truly support Shrub for their own, often selfish or hateful, reasons.

But God, the vast majority of people I know who say they support this administration have NO FREAKING CLUE what is actually going on in the world. I know that some people are willfully ignorant while others are legitimately busy, working 40+ hours, taking care of their kids, etc.

And the media does not make things any easier for these types of people. In the area that I live, we only get RW spin. I have to take the time to read DU, the BBC, and other online publications to get the real story. Unfortunately, the majority of people have no desire to do that. They either don't care enough about what is going on in the world beyond their little speheres or are too lazy to try to find out.

The combination of apathy and ignorance is lethal for any society, but most especially for a democracy. Sorry for the rant- I just couldn't help myself once I started.

And welcome to DU!! :)

[Individualist]

10. The people who like Bush

are willfully uninformed.

[moez]

13. They're informed alright .....

I think they're very informed.... the question is, by whom are they informed. It's difficult to keep up with the right wing talk show bias.

[Ouabache]

17. Black and White, Good and Bad, Evil & Rightousness, no shades of Gray

His supporters like things simplified. Cut and dried. No shades of gray.

Bush Lied, the Democrats are right.
Bush is wrong, the Democrats are right.
Bush is a bad president just like his father. We need another good Democratic president.

Bush has terrible advisors. Democratic Presidents hire good advisors.


Just say it.

[newyawker99]

34. Hi moez!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[moez]

44. Thanks!

I'm not sure if I'm ready for this or not... this seems like a rowdy crowd!

[Woodstock]

14. His support could be limited to these people

And some of his supporters fit in more than one group:

* Rich corporate types (natch)

* White rural/suburban types who see the Democrats as pro-welfare and pro-minority (and Bush plays up to all of these fears superbly) - they see the Republican party as the pro-white party; throw in the anti-gun perception for good measure, and they are a shoe in to vote Republican

* The "let's kick their ass" types who would never themselves join the military and fight, but like to think of the USA as ruling the world; like all bullies, they are compensating for feelings of inadequacy - the whole "unpatriotic if you criticize the president" movement is part of a bullying mentality that also accounts for the so called "Christian" right movement's behavior

* People who want to feel superior to others, but know there is no damn reason to, so they follow the "Christian" organizations (we know they don't truly believe in Jesus, since they subvert his teachings) - these "followers" perceve themselves to be in the majority and thus this is a another case of bullying; these people desperately need have someone to look down on but they live in fear of being found out for the shams they are (that's why they are so prone to running in packs, it's easier to pretend this way)

* White collar workers making $60-100K who think some day, they too will strike it rich and get to reap all the rewards of a political system set up to benefit the wealthy; the first thing out of their mouths is "Why should I pay taxes for somebody else to get something?" and think they will actually benefit from the Republicans in this way - these seemingly intelligent people are seriously delusional when it comes to this, because Bush is counting on THEM to bear the tax burden (they are mere cogs in the wheel to the really wealthy)

* Women with a fear of flying (there's responsibility in being considered equal to others, so they essentially drop out of the game, and are content to back their husbands (who are known to use the term "femi-nazis" and follow so called "Christian" groups that say the man is the head of the family) - if God says women are second, then that's a good excuse for not living up to their potential (and I don't just mean careers, but as individuals)

[LEW]

15. Its very simple

He's not Clinton

[bunnyhop]

16. Americans want a president that will steal oil

They don't care how many foreigners die as long as gas stays plentiful so they can keep their suburbans and expeditions.

[9215]

18. If you predominantly watch the corporate whore

media coverage of him there isn't much not to like about him: if it isn't postitive it is seldom mentioned. The son-of-bitch has had a free ride on everything from being AWOL, to being a coke head, a drunk, and fathering a minors child. The guy that took a candid look at his family in an "up close and personal" of Jenna was the first anthrax victim, Bob Stevens of the National Enquirer.

Many others who criticize the Bushistas sleep with the fishes including the woman who Poppy had a fling with Jennifer Fitzgerald. Don't know how she died; it is kind of hard to keep track of all of those who have died who crossed the Bushies path.

[oneighty]

19. Bush*

is a racist. He has a lot of company.

180

[leesa]

21. He caters to their fairy tale beliefs

that the US is good and honorable and that they are decent christians. Despite the glaring inconsistency between what he is asserting and what the US is doing around the world. Also, it's the sporting mentality. Support the team no matter what they do or how they behave.

[realFedUp]

22. Why do people like Beavis and Butthead?

Inbreeding I think.

[carpetbagger]

23. Skip the emotional reasons? That's why they like the guy.

He's good looking, he seems pious and sincere, and he appears to be a tough and resolute leader. Yeah, it's a nightmare combination of a TV preacher and a movie actor, but the people of this nation bought it.

It's not enough for us to convince people our policies are right. We need to make the public see Bush for who he really is. Fortunately, Bush has planted the seeds of his fall in the Iraq debate, and this can easily snowball into his budgetary and other domestic policies. All we need to do is to add one more thing to the list.

7. He's got something to hide.

How can he be pious if he's hiding something?
How can he be sincere if he's hiding something?

There you have it. Emotionally shrink Bush, and what's he going to run on, policy issues? HAHAHAHAHAHA

P.S. The poor state of regard for civil liberties in this nation is a long-standing issue. We think it started in the 50's, but the 50's were nothing compared to the 20's, and the 20's were nothing compared to the mob actions of the 1800's, which were nothing compared to the Alien and Sedition Acts. I still think highly of the Democratic senators who at least managed to put in the sunset provisions in the Patriot Act.

[leftofthedial]

24. Marketing

A large number of Americans accept uncritically what they are told. They are too lazy, or intellectually uncurious, or too self absorbed to find out any information for themselves, much less evaluate it critically. They latch on to whichever tasty little soundbites they hear the most often and absorb them into their world view. They were told over and over and over and over that first Clinton and then Gore were liars, immoral and not to be trusted, while Beelzedubya was a moral, honest straight talker. The neocons kick our ass in marketing. I mean a big time, no contest, men against boys ass whupping.

Most Americans prefer soundbites (intellectual fast food) to actual thinking.

[Dob Bole]

25. Because he is a rural American

with a very humble background as a rancher who shares the simple faith of rural Americans.

which is bullsh**

But that's the perception that he's tried to create, and in politics perception matters more than the truth.

[Skittles]

26. quite simply, they don't know the truth about Bush

that's it.

[OrdinaryTa]

28. American Pioneer Myths

Americans love to believe in the natural goodness of the American frontiersman: rough-hewn, blunt-talking, charmingly uncivilized, but having deep down moral convictions. Staunch. Reliable. A fighter.

A lot of conservatives try this crap and get away with it. Nixon himself even tried it. In his farewell address to the White House staff (which was even more mawkish than the Checkers speech) Nixon made the absurd statement I am not an educated man. Nixon was a lawyer.

The best part of the pioneer myth is that it doesn't take any effort. When you were a kid, you bought a coonskin cap. Now that you're an adult, you buy an SUV and call yourself an explorer, a navigator, a scout, a maverick, a rebel. (The mania has gone to absurd extremes. There are Cadillac SUV's and stretch Humvees for the wedding party.)

This period of time is as nutty as any in the past 50 years. People will look back and wonder what this generation was thinking. George Bush, who is not as much of a bumpkin as he pretends, trashed the government and put us deep into debt. Americans continued to love him anyhow. "He's one of us," they cheered.

[Mari333]

29. He is ugly, a SPOILED frat boy and has manicured nails

how in the world can anyone with an IQ above room temperature not see that?

[THX1138]

30. I don't think ideology has anything to do with it

I think that if the economy is in fairly decent shape, passable even, and the president is an affable, likeable enough sorta guy, the American public will bend over backwards to give them the benefit of the doubt, their politics are nearly irrelevant. Witness Clinton during impeachment and Reagan in the 80's. Clinton was hammered 24/7 by the press for months and it had virtually zero effect on his poll numbers. If Clinton had been weathering that storm in the middle of a recession does anyone think those numbers would have held? Reagan typically had approvals in the 60's but when you polled the public on most all of his issues individually (defense spending, budget cuts, the economy, etc) they were 60/40 against. Which begs the question: How can you vote for someone who you disagree with on nearly every single issue? Typical answer: He seems like a nice guy.

The one advantage shrub has is 911/terra, that is a huge wrench thrown into the middle of all this, but I think the old "its the economy stupid" addage is beginning to trump even that. I agree with another poster who made the point in another thread, that even another major terrorist attack is more likely to draw ire towards this administration, rather than support. It may be interpreted as a sign of incompetence, but who knows, that blind nationalism is powerful stuff. People are slowly turning against BushCo I think it has more to do with their pocketbooks than anything else. While it is nice to think the public is all up in arms and fighting the good fight here on principle, I think no one can deny that very often the public (and the press) chooses whether or not to care about these things. They choose to care when it suits them is my point. Boom times: The president can do no wrong. Tough times: The president can do nothing right. In short-- people are selfish. Is that cynical enough for ya?

[Fla_Democrat]

31. a serious discussion,

here, on why some people like Bush? Isn't that like walking into the Westminster Kennel Club, and asking.... "So, what's up with cat-people?"

[fishnfla]

37. I think its a fair question

We need to know the mans' PERCEIVED "strengths" ( I can't name one actual one), in order to get rid of him. Hell, his weaknesses are legendary. Lets start chipping away at the verneer.
The media is key. They backed off after Clinton and Whitewater, scandal overload, plus the egg-on-the-face fact that nothing was there.

[Fla_Democrat]

45. I think it's a fair question, too....

I just don't think there will be an accurate view of why some people like him gleaned from the replies.
You point out....
We need to know the mans' PERCEIVED "strengths" ( I can't name one actual one), in order to get rid of him.

I merely point out that to find those strengths, go to a place where people do like him. Sure, you don’t see any of his perceived strengths, I'm not offering any, but somewhere, some place, there are people that do see them. Why not ask them, instead of an intellectual circle jerk at a board where liking Bush is a one way ticket to boot hill.

Let's see some of the ideas brought forth so far....

Because they are: bigots, simple minded, uninformed, greedy, fundies, bubble heads, selfish, hateful, racist. Need I go on? Oh, I forgot inbred.

My point is, if this is a serious discussion, to find a exploitable weakness with his core constituency, then wouldn't it be more efficient to go to a board where he is liked, and ask?

Personally, I would think that if his supporters are that stupid, it would be easy to find out what attracts them to Bush, and show them examples of where he isn't living up to their ideals. However, that would only (IMHO) be effective, if we can direct them to a third party candidate, ala Perot 1992. I know from the chatter, that people who are for smaller government are not real happy right now, because the size of government has grown in the last 2 years. I know they will never vote for Dennis Kucinich, so I try to angle them towards the libertarian party. Hurt feelings aside, 2000 taught me that a vote denied an opponent, is a vote for my candidate.

Stupid, uninformed, inbred, they still vote. Dismiss one's political enemy at one's own risk.

[Kamika]

32. 3, 6 and alittle 4

topic

[Ripley]

33. Because he is not a liberal.

He could murder his wife and they'd still defend him and claim liberals are immoral.

[Individualist]

42. Indeed

When confronted with facts, they label them "librul lies" and when given proof, they stubbornly refuse to believe it.

[JCMach1]

35. Simple, he plays to America's anti-intellectualism

They like him specifically because he's a freakin' idiot.

[silverlib]

36. my "in the heart opinion"

Being from the South, I have found that most of the republican's I know are racist. They do not admit this as "," but that it is what it is. They don't want their tax dollars to go to support social assures or the poor, unless they are the ones needing the help. They believe that the minorities get too much of money. The South never voted Republican before Civil Rights came into play. These people think the republicans "protect their tax dollars" and their "right to bear arms." These people never realized that what MLK did for the black people, he also did for the working poor people of all races.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

38. Leadership

Dean said he thinks Bush is popular because he is perceived as a "leader"; his image is one of decisiveness and strength. Which is of course BS, but I agree that this must be part of his appeal. He benefitted greatly from being in power on 9/11, as we know.

[jpgray]

39. Because they haven't been paying attention

Aside from a measly percentage who will like Bush no matter what he does, people will get more and more concerned about his leadership the more they find out about him. That is why the media distracts and doesn't report--George is their boy.

[nannygoat]

40. I can't stand *, but this article talks about his use of emotional...

language to keep Americans afraid. We all know, of course, that it's not * who is writing this language ...

Power of presidency resides in language as well as law
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/130534_focusecond13.html

<snip>
George W. Bush is generally regarded as a mangler of the English language.

What is overlooked is his mastery of emotional language -- especially negatively charged emotional language -- as a political tool. Take a closer look at his speeches and public utterances and his political success turns out to be no surprise. It is the predictable result of the intentional use of language to dominate others.

Bush, like many dominant personality types, uses dependency-creating language. He employs language of contempt and intimidation to shame others into submission and desperate admiration.

While we tend to think of the dominator as using physical force, in fact most dominators use verbal abuse to control others. Abusive language has been a major theme of psychological researchers on marital problems, such as John Gottman, and of philosophers and theologians, such as Josef Pieper.