Are they scared, bought off, or both?

[senseandsensibility]

Really. Seriously. I am SICK of wondering, wailing, begging, crying, imagining, or thinking about why our Dem leaders won't vilify this administration. I won't even suggest a reason, because there is no valid reason.

It would cost nothing for the leadership to meet and come up with a strategy. They are fairly intelligent, and have money to buy the advice of professional PR people as well. They could meet for as many days as necessary, then meet again if they had to. They could keep working on it until they came up with a message. Then they could carry the message onto the airwaves. The corporate whores couldn't stop them if they were relentless. If every Dem who appeared on TV just kept repeating the message on live TV, what could they do about it? Short of refusing to allow any Dems on TV, nothing.

We need to face the fact that our leadership just doesn't want to do this. And to me, that's the hardest thing to accept.:argh:

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. I agree. They are ASKING for a third party movement.

A serious one. Unlike Nader.

If they don't wake up soon, they're going to get it.

[eridani]

25. For that to happen--

--a big chunk of Dems would have to break off and stay intact, like an iceberg calving, and not break up into a bunch of little ice-cube-sized chunks.

[smirkymonkey]

2. I am absolutely disgusted with the Democratic leadership and

I can not account for them. :shrug:

Anybody else have a clue?

Kicked and nominated! WTF is wrong w/ our party!!!

:kick:

[solinvictus]

3. "Money money money money....mooooneeeyyyy!"

There you go. They love to cash checks from corporate donors to secure their seat for the next election cycle. It's not rocket science, they simply have no loyalty that isn't measured in dollar signs.

[sendero]

5. I keep saying....

... we need to pick the most egregious offender. Organize a grass-roots campaign to raise lots of cash. And then fund a challenger to take his seat.

Once we've succeeded with one, we tell the rest: either become a fucking Dem or you are next.

I know, y'all think I'm crazy. I am, but not about this, there has to be a consequence for voting like a fucking repuke 90% of the time.

[PassingFair]

18. I vote we tackle Lieberman first...

that little lizard needs to be flushed out from under his rock.

[bvar22]

21. You can find Joe here:

Joe Lieberman
Chilling with his Homeboys

Birds of a Feather?

[tavalon]

23. It would be very expensive

but Joe Lie berman needs to be removed in the worst way.

[Melynn]

4. I've voted third party before and I have regretted it

But sometimes you have to ask yourself what's the point of voting for Democrats if they aren't going to stand for something?

[AuntiBush]

6. Agreed but

when we're left w/who's the better of the 2 evils you vote Dem.

If we seen MAJOR support for a 3rd party (Not Nader), we could do it, but not without everyone voting 3rd party to show Dem's we're taking back our rights, our country w/no corporate greed, lies, sellouts.

What's the solution?

[Melynn]

14. "What's the solution?" I have no idea

To use borrow a quote from someone else, "When you vote for the lesser of two evils you still end up with evil".

The only thing I know to do is to fight for good progressives within the Democratic party but it gets frustrating at times.

I agree with you that voting for a third party isn't the answer in most cases.

[nolabels]

26. That seems to like a good one to me, "NO SOLUTIONS"

It is impossible to heal the earth, so why try? Besides letting go of the need for a solution when one is not apparent a couple of things could happen. Just for starters it can marginalize the problem and release the power it has on someone. Or for a second one, in letting go you will sometimes find a solution just plops right in front of your face after a while

And lastly problems often find a way of solving their own selves

[senseandsensibility]

15. I don't know the solution

but I am changing my attitude. I don't where it will lead. I have spent the past few years working to build my local Dem party, contributing everything I could afford to Kerry, working for his campaign, writing e-mails and protesting. I have tried every way I know to get the leadership's attention. I now see that they don't want to respond. It's like a punch to the gut.

[eridani]

27. Not true everywhere.

The WA state Democrats issued an official resolution condemning the bankruptcy bill, and enjoined the entire Dem state delegation to vote against it. This was due to a group of activists (mainly but not entirely former Dean and Kucinich campaign workers) who pushed for it. We also heavily lobbied Inslee and Smith, two "New Democrats" who signed the original New Dem letter backing the bill. They backed off and voted against it, as did Norm Dicks. So raising hell can indeed work. Now all we have to do is figure out what to do about Baird and Larsen.

[Redstone]

7. It's because they are cowards. They are cowards because

they don't want to piss off the money people who got them elected.

If they didn't get re-elected, they'd have to go find an actual job.

Power is a powerful aphrodisiac. And a terrible addiction.

Redstone

(Edited for really sloppy typing.)

[walldude]

9. Yup, in the current system there

is no way to get elected without being beholden to someone. Ergo, in some way or another every politician is on the take. It's going to take someone with money, like Ross Perot, only please, without the power-hungry psychotic delusions, to get us out of this mess.

[Redstone]

12. I really wanted to see Perot get elected, if only

for the amusement value. Imagine how entertaining it would have been to have that loose cannon in the White House?

Though even as nuts as he is, he'd have never invade Iraq, would he?

Redstone

[saracat]

8. I agree about the leadership, but the ones screaming aren't getting press!

Kerry even bought ads against Bolton. And we have the Dem weazels who are voting wrong. Leadership, including Dean, ought to be corraling these votes in and bringing the sellout Dems to heel, and they aren't.I want to know why? Kudos to those Dems like Kerry ,Boxer and Levin,Kennedy, and the others who are trying to keep the ship afloat. They are doing it alone without the support of the leadership. This is a shame! who are trying

[senseandsensibility]

10. I agree that some Dems are making heroic

efforts, but for whatever reason, it simply isn't working, and hasn't worked for the past four years or more. The leadership should have figured out a way to deal with this administration by now. They simply don't want to. Does the reason even matter? Sorry, I am impatient this evening.

[Al-CIAda]

11. Both scared & bought off, but some are even complicit.

This party is full of sell-outs and traitors.

[senseandsensibility]

13. I thought I was going to get heat for this thread

I thought everyone was going to say that I was a whiner. Glad to see that I'm not so outside the box as I thought.

[solinvictus]

16. You're not..

I'm to the point of washing my hands of it all, completing my education, and leaving for Switzerland or New Zealand.

[KittyWampus]

36. You're Not A Whiner You're A Defeatist Bullshiter. Reid Has A Warroom

Dean is working on showing up in all 50 states. Democrats are presenting bills and amendments that make the GOP look bad.

Frankly, I think you aren't paying attention and have an agenda to make the Democrats look bad.

You and DU'ers like yourself RELISH the opportunity to trash Democrats.

You are addicted to losing and complaining about this and that and how Democrats never do anything and NEVER acknowledege all the good stuff they do.

When Democrats stood up and stopped the counting of the Electoral Votes and spoke about POWERFULLY Election Reform and what went wrong on November 5th this place was FILLED with people like YOU who trashed them.

[leesa]

17. They are millionaires and they are on board with BushCo destruction

of the middle class. The are the rich elite. It's really simple.

[The Whiskey Priest]

19. They, the Democratic Leadership, are simply stalking horses.

Not really Stallions....they have sold us out...and we continue to follow them...like fools. Well, I for one, am stopping this nonsense. I am looking for a movement...if I am going to get my ass kicked it will be in the companionship of brothers-in-arms who will fight by my side, rather than sulk around in the dark to sell me out.

[senseandsensibility]

20. You have a way with words, Whiskey Priest!

And I don't disagree with you.:)

[galloglas]

30. Well then, Fenain....

I don't disagree, *uisce sagart*. But it is then, sinn fein, is it not?

Someone better study IRB structure because these Sasanach bastards are killers.

Edited 4-15 for hitting the keys too fiercly

[Discord]

22. Your absolutely right. My idea.

Is having those who are true progressives, who still stand for something, all get together and form a big named, name recognition third party.

A third party with established credentials, progressive values, a solid platform and message, and a shoot from the hip, speak the truth, even when it hurts, lets get this damn country straightened out kinda party. A party determined to stick together and work together to better this country.

IMHO to be sucessful, they would need a fair number of the big names that have some political pull to get off the ground with some momentum.

[WildEyedLiberal]

24. You think if Dems get on TV and call Bush evil, it'll solve anything?

Only in the wailing echo chamber of DU does anyone think that "the Democrats aren't doing anything."

[senseandsensibility]

32. Nooooo

As I said in my original post, I think that if the Dems spent the time and money and effort necessry to craft an effective message and carried to the airwaves en masse it would solve something. "Doing nothing" are your words, not mine, as well.

[WildEyedLiberal]

40. That's a nice idea, if we had any control over the airwaves at all

I'm not trying to be defeatist, but just acknowledging that the GOP controls all mainstream forms of media, and that in that sort of climate, it's next to impossible for Dems to get any sort of message out.

I think the DNC's money would be better spent on an advertising campaign, but that's not what Dean is focusing on.

[MisterP]

28. here's a link to one of the things we're talking about:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3482332

[senseandsensibility]

33. I saw it last night

It was one of the things that inspired this thread, as if I needed any more inspiration!x(

[OneBlueSky]

29. it may indeed be time for a new party . . .

obviously the corporate Republocrats are going to keep pushing the BushCo agenda until the middle and lower classes have no rights, no jobs, no money, no healthcare, no retirement, and no hope . . . the battle isn't between left and right -- it's between the ruling oligarchy and the rest of us . . . and the ruling oligarchy includes both Republicans and Democrats more loyal to their corporate sponsors than to the people they pretend to represent . . .

but . . . since a third party would have zero chance of success (barring a presidential candidate on the order of a Robert Redford), the only alternative is to take over the Democratic party and make it democratic . . . which means progressive . . . and the only way to do that is OUTSIDE the established channels . . .

Step One should be a MASSIVE internet-based collaborative campaign by Move On, People for the American Way, and other progressive organizations to replace each and every Congressperson and Senator who voted for the bankruptcy bill . . . these people are NOT Democrats; they are corporate scum . . . every dollar raised by progressives in the next year and a half should go to support this campaign . . .

to actually accomplish this we will need to put social issues like gay marriage (I'm a gay man) and abortion on the back burner . . . our position on social issues should be maintaining the status quo until we solve the more critical issues like energy, jobs, healthcare, education, international cooperation, ending wars, etc. . . and generally keeping government out of these issues altogether . . .

I've had it with Republocrats! . . . if the progressive leadership in this country can't come together to take back the party from these hacks, I'm done with politics . . . because it just won't make any difference . . .

[dandrhesse]

31. The way I see it, it is like being held hostage. You may as well kick and

scream and fight with everything that is in you because regardless of what your captors promise they are going to do what they want anyway. I don't see why the Dems don't realize they are screwed no matter what they do, so they may as well go for it.

The same goes for the GOP senators. If they bucked bush even once they are done for, so why not go whole hog?

This is the single biggest opportunity that will ever come their way to be a national hero. Seriously, any senator, especially a GOP senator that has the guts and the tenure to do it should go for it. The point is, they are done for anyway you slice it, what they are supporting is the end of our democracy and if they think that this monster has loyalty to anyone they are nutso.

The greed monster devours all that is in its path. It might not get you today but you are never safe. Why are they all so sure that this thing will not turn on them. Look at Putin and China and India not to mention Venezuela. The world will not stand for it. They are making plans to take us down and the GOP seems as though they are so arrogant that they think they are immune. What a joke. This whole thing would be hilarious if it weren't so serious.

[youthere]

34. You just put to words

what has been bothering me for a long time. Got my vote for best topic.

[laura888]

35. You nailed it. n/t

[Daphne08]

37. Politicians are at the mercy of corporate donors and lobbyists

who will simply find and fund someone else to provide the needed Yeas and Nays if they don't perform.

At the same time, most elected officials are probably also terrified of losing their appeal with their constituents since they must somehow convince those at home that everything they do is for the benefit of those at home. (That's where being a good politician comes into play.)

U.S. Senators and Representatives are some of the most powerful people in the free world, and there's a great deal of prestige associated with that fact.

So... the task is to remain in Washington as long as possible, and if they do last long enough, then they're set for life as far as retirement and future employment are concerned (or as long as the lucrative book deals and college circuit engagements last).

So yes, I think most are probably very afraid until and if they amass enough solid home-grown support to be able to tell anyone else to bug off-- that is, if they haven't lost all their principles by then.

[ewagner]

41. Maybe there's a better strategy

to deal with DINOs....

Maybe we should pick ONE SENATOR and ONE CONGRESSMAN and target all our energies to replacing them as a punishment.

We need to make AN EXAMPLE out of them...even if we cannot successfully replace them with a certified Dem, we would at least scare the crap out of them.

[emad]

38. Maybe they know the shit's about to hit the fan bigtime and

are just leaving it all to the cops...;.


FIRST ugly domino to fall will be in the UK.


That's where Shrub's dirty WMD/9-11/God's Banker secrets have been buried.

TOO many know about this.

[Al-CIAda]

39. kick- because I'm pissed off at them

for not exposing the PNAC cabal. We will continue to spped along the murderous, sociopathic rampage until the TRUTH about 9/11 is dared to be spoken.