Dean plans to use Schiavo/DeLay/Theocracy against the GOP in the midterms

[WilliamPitt]

[Radical Activist]

1. It will play into the persecution complex.

A huge part of the conservative evangelical political strategy is based on keeping up this fear that the secular world is out to get Christians. That Dean strategy will reinforce that and give Republicans ammunition in the South to paint the Democrats of the secular party of the devil that wants to take God out of public life etc.

It will help in some districts but put us further back in Southern states where the Southern Baptist Convention and other conservative churches are a powerful political force.

[WilliamPitt]

4. 80% did not approve of the GOP's Schiavo-fest

I assume some of those are down South.

[Radical Activist]

10. Yes, many of them are in the South.

But if Dean talks about it as a religious issue, rather than as a government getting over involved in our personal lives issue, then it may not play to our advantage.

[Jim Sagle]

19. Rest easy, RA. That's EXACTLY how he'll play it -

as "a government getting over involved in our personal lives issue."

[Radical Activist]

24. I hope you're right.

I don't automatically assume everything Dean does will be good.

[PassingFair]

29. There's an

...understatement

[CTLawGuy]

61. hehe

NT

[creeksneakers2]

5. I hope they are inflamed

All we have to do is show the other 3/4 of the public how nuts they are. They want to take away the power of the judicial branch - the branch that protects our rights. The public should know about this.

[Radical Activist]

12. Talking about balance of power and the constitution

is a good idea. Framing it in a way that can be spun as a war against religion won't help.

[ldf]

63. well, we better drop the whole issue

because that IS the way they are going to spin it.

was the last election about national security, economics, healthcare?

no, it was about the goddamn queers marrying.

get it?

:grr:

[SemperEadem]

67. It will always be about gays marrying--it's an effective rallying standard

Sure he told them it was about gays marrying and those who voted him in swallowed that because not much analysis was made by them regarding *'s intentions. They went along with the program, not questioning a thing because they stopped their understanding at gay marriage. They weren't interested in investigating the RW's policies further because they could still 'breathe'. Now that he's elected, he's screwing them flat to the ground and some of those who went along with * and the RW in the 2004 election are getting mashed. They're 'picking the shrimp shells out of the carpet' now, so to speak.

It's still going to be about gays marrying and the RW's perception of immorality--they are going to play to the common denominator, that's a given. It's easy, it works and the sheople love it.

The key is to remind the sheople that getting a grip on their debt has been made even more difficult now that Congress has given financial giants carte blanche to destroy the middle class, then try to make it as if they're all a bunch of lazy bums because they got themselves in the their mess---not that the system is rigged from the get-go.

Soccer moms can barely afford to gas up the minivan to run the kids to all of their little activities everyday after school; nascar dad's job is severely cutting back their payment in the health care provided, making dad fish deeper in his empty pocket when the baby has an ear infection.

Single young women have to endure the effrontage of a pharmacist making a moral judgment on her character all because she's trying to find a way to cope with an erratic period.

The RW is trying to eliminate or reduce one of the branches of our government--the judicial branch by manipulating the emotions of those very people whose rights and interests will be the first things sacrificed.

This is what has to be made heard above the din of noise and confusion the RW loves to spit.

Dean should take the Schiavo case and turn it around on the gay marriage issue--that the maneuverings of the right wing during the last days of this woman's life has put the 'sanctity' of marriage in more of a danger than any gay/lesbian couple marrying ever will. The legal definition of marriage was almost trampled underfoot--the question of who is legally responsible to make decision within a marriage when it has been a given since the dawn of marriage--and that their own God said so. How can that be so hugely ignored by those who profess to believe everything else their God says? Dean needs to take this 'religious' issue and twist it into a political/civil rights issue.

THAT is the message Dean needs to clobber them with.

[The Doctor.]

13. There is no way to Not play into the complex...

This is oversimplified, but it really does work...

Next time you want to shut someone up, or embarrass them while in a crowd of average-intellect listeners; Just ask, "Why are you so argumentative?"

They will either argue or agree... if they aren't too bright that is.

You've seen it - you get it, you don't fall for it. But a sad majority of Americans are intellectually vulnerable to this simple tactic.

And that is exactly the tactic that the fundies are using.

They cry out over how 'persecuted' and 'sidelined' they are while they go about forcing their agenda down America's throat. That way, if anyone stands up and points out that they are trying to legislate their particularly twisted brand of morality, or that they are inciting violence, they can shout, "See there! That person is persecuting us! That person is Anti-God! They are immoral and hateful and want to destroy America's families!"

You could call it an 'agressive-victimhood' complex.

[bobthedrummer]

2. They framed so much, this "culture of life" judge threatening gang, it's

more than time to respond to these whackjobs on some of "their" issues.
I'm supportive of Howard Dean's plan to pursue these vulnerabilities of the RW.

[SemperEadem]

68. Culture of life--that's a good one!

anyone got a particularly nasty jpg of a petri dish?

there's your culture of life.

[Jack Rabbit]

3. Great idea: Caveat

The Republicans have time to ditch DeLay (the sooner, the better for them) and backpedal on the un-American road they're taking on church-state issues. Then the issue would disappear.

Barring that, it's a great idea.

[madfloridian]

6. Just substitute another name for DeLay's.

There are many. Santorum came here and got campaign money while visiting Schiavo.

[Jack Rabbit]

8. Santorum is nuts, but he isn't sleazy

DeLay is both.

[gumby]

11. Oh, yes he is.

How about that thing of taking all that Pennsylvania money to "privately" educate his kids in another state? He's sleazy, but no-one-to-date can beat the Sleaze Meter of DeLay.

[Jack Rabbit]

28. That's small time stuff compared to DeLay

I'm not saying it's good, but it's not extortion on a large scale. That's what DeLay has done.

It's also personal. You can make an issue of it in Pennsylvania, but here in California, we're going to be concerned about other things.

On the other hand, DeLay has set up a political machine that funnels money from lobbyists into the GOP and back. It taints the Republicans on Capitol Hill and their allies on K Street. I mean all of them. DeLay's way of doing business is an institutional concern.

[MollyStark]

55. He is sleazy as hell

He is for Tort reform but he and his wife sued a Chiropractor, blaming him for problems she had during her pregnancy.
He claims to live in a small house in a poor school district and makes the district pay for his kids home schooling when he actually lives in a home in VA and rents the PA house out.

[Jack Rabbit]

60. I will refer you back to post 28

Again, that's not good. However, it isn't sleaze like Tom DeLay's sleaze.

That is the sort of thing Santorum's opponent in the next election can use against Santorum. However, it couldn't be used against anybody else.

What DeLay has done that makes his sleaze a national issue is to build a machine from which all but a very few House Republicans benefit. He shakes down lobbyists for money, tells them who they can and can't hire and threatens to hold up their legislation if they don't do things his way. This certainly borders on extortion and perhaps it crosses the line. The money that he extorts from them goes to the GOP congressional campaign war chest. The lobbyists' clients get their tax breaks, the lobbyists get higher salaries and are expected to keep the money coming into House Republicans through DeLay.

Does Santorum do anything like that? So far, two specific allegations of impropriety have been made against Santorum on this thread. Both affect only him personally. Even assuming the charges are true, to say that a Republican in California or Alabama should be defeated because Senator Santorum improperly expropriated public funds to send his child to a private school is ludicrous; these are good reasons to defeat Senator Santorum, but have nothing to do with anybody else, even if Santorum is the third-ranking Republican in the Senate.

However, DeLay's sleaze is quite different. Everybody knows what he does to raise money. He's been admonished by the ethics committee more than once over it. What does he do about his ethics problems? Take better care to stay within the rules? No. He changes the make up of the ethics committee. Are his fellow Republicans expressing outrage at his misbehavior? As long as most of them are getting a share of the money that DeLay shakes down from lobbyists, very few of them are making as much as a peep about it.

That is why DeLay's activities are a national issue that can be used against the Republicans in general. DeLay corrupts almost every other Republican member of the House.

[bklyncowgirl]

46. There's a whole rogues gallery of pseudo-religious hypocrites out there.nt

[Jack Rabbit]

52. Very few have DeLay's visibility and name recognition

Maybe we had better start setting up Senator Frist as a straw man. When it comes to being on the wrong side of church/state separation issues, he's the next logical target after DeLay.

But look at DeLay. You couldn't get a better villain out of central casting. In addition to wanting to tear down constitutional protections of religious freedom, he's crooked and nasty. I don't mean just Spiro Agnew crooked; I mean Boss Tweed crooked. DeLay's activity taints every Republican in the House and an increasing number of lobbyists on K Street. Talk about a pariah. Who can so much as shake DeLay's hand without himself becoming infected? And his demeanor. What a hard edge he has. He makes Newt Gingrich look like a pussy cat. Who can help but loathe him?

While there are other religious hypocrites out there, none of them make the Republicans look as bad as Tom DeLay.

[LoZoccolo]

7. It's basically letting them continue to frame the debate.

This time with issues that will be a year and a half old by the time the election happens. Also, I like Dean, but he has a tendency to not anticipate what the media will do to what he's trying to say, so I'm afraid of him running roughshod over some of the more complex issues (DeLay, however, is not a complex issue).

[Erika]

14. I trust Dean

[LoZoccolo]

22. I loved it. It was much better than /Cats/.

I'm going to see it again and again.

[meow2u3]

9. I don't know about you, but

I don't want Bugboy telling ME if I get to live or die! :grr:

[janx]

15. Check this out! Angry freeper's "living will":

To: Pan_Yans Wife; 68 grunt; Peach; KDD

Here's my new living will:


I, _________________________ (fill in the blank), being of sound mind and body, do not wish to be kept alive indefinitely by artificial means.

Under no circumstances should my fate be put in the hands of peckerwood politicians who couldn't pass ninth-grade biology if their lives depended on it.

If a reasonable amount of time passes and I fail to sit up and ask for a cold beer, it should be presumed that I won't do so ever again. When such a determination is reached, I hereby instruct my spouse, children and attending physicians to pull the plug, reel in the tubes and call it a day.

Under no circumstances shall the members of the Legislature enact a special law to keep me on life-support machinery. It is my wish that these boneheads mind their own damn business, and pay attention instead to the health, education and future of the millions of Americans who aren't in a permanent coma and who nonetheless may be in need of nourishment.

Under no circumstances shall any politicians butt into this case. I don't care how many fundamentalist votes they're trying to scrounge for their run for the presidency in 2008, it is my wish that they play politics with someone else's life and leave me alone to die in peace.

I couldn't care less if a hundred religious zealots send e-mails to legislators in which they pretend to care about me. I don't know these people, and I certainly haven't authorized them to preach and/or crusade on my behalf. They should mind their own damn business, too.

If any of my family goes against my wishes and turns my case into a political cause, I hereby promise to come back from the grave and make his or her existence a living hell.

150 posted on 04/16/2005 9:54:28 PM MDT by Howlin (North Carolina, where beer kegs are registered and illegal aliens run free.)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 149 | View Replies | Report Abuse >

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1385118/posts?page=134#150

[Erika]

21. Yes!

The GOP insistence on growing government to invade family privacy issues is not being well received.

[janx]

31. Did you see the rest of the thread?

It's entertaining. I'm almost tempted to feel sorry for the saner freepers (there are some funny comments), but they've used the religious right and have no one to blame but themselves.

[B Calm]

45. Do you have the link?

[janx]

16. This is absolutely something that must be done.

I called both of my senators when that circus reared its grotesque head. This cannot be allowed to happen again.

[Poppyseedman]

17. I thought Dean was smarter than that

The Schiavo debate is a very complicated one with many different facets that are hard to track. This can blow up easily on us.

People want a vision. Complicated issues with many different angles like the Schiavo case do not translate well into an easy message to be understood.

DeLay has plenty of other "problems" that can resonate with the masses without touching the very sticky issue of Terry Schiavo and the heavy handedness of the GOP

[Erika]

18. Huh? Americans strongly wishes the right to die without

government intervention. The GOP wish to take this away.

[Poppyseedman]

27. I understand that a large majority Americans don't want the government

to intervene in your right to die.

I don't think a vast majority of Americans believe the Schiavo situation was a clear cut "right to die" case. Lots of people think she was murdered.

Which brings me to my original point in my post. There is a lot of unanswered questions about the whole Terry Schiavo affair.

Dean needs to lead by presenting a vision. Dragging Terry Schiavo up to pound on the GOP abuse of power is going to look political morbid or the GOP will make it look as such.

I think it's too big a risk when their is SO MUCH hanging fruit issues to pick from to make the same point.

[Raksha]

39. HUH??? "Mind your own damn business...

...and don't play politics with my life" is a complicated issue? I think it's one of the more straightforward issues--it has to be if even the freepers get it!

[me b zola]

41. First of all, there was no debate

Americans, overwhelmingly, spoke and their voice said "get the damned Congress and polticians out of my personal life!!!!"


Secondly, there was NOTHING complicated about Mrs. Schiavo's wishes, dying, nor death. It is difficult as the person charged with carrying out the last wishes of a loved one---but not complicated. Knowing when to say when is agonizing, but not complicated. I've been there...have you????


"many different angles"??? I call bushit.

[iconoclastNYC]

64. Exactly

The RW machine obfuscated the facts of the case, but America wasn't buying that crap. 80% of the country was bothered by what the RW did and this issue, and all thier persecution complex peddling is going to backfire big time on them.

Most Christians are not evangelical fundies no matter what Time Magazine wants us to think.

[sandnsea]

43. It isn't a sticky issue at all

This is one of the most clear cut issues that has come up in American politics in a very long time. Stay out of my family business. People who think it's many faceted need to shut off Foxnews.

And other people need to stop sayig "use" Terri Schiavo. It's repulsive.

[bklyncowgirl]

47. It's the way the Republicans used Schaivo that is the issue.

We can all have differing opinions on whether or not the feeding tube should have been removed.

What happened with these politicians dancing on this poor woman's deathbed in order to score brownie points with the religious right was disgusting.

Dean was right to stay out of it at the time--although many of us were calling on him to get involved--and he's right to use this as an example of Republican extremism and opportunism.

[thebigidea]

51. or can blow up hard, as it did for the Repukes - or are you forgetting?

[cidliz2004]

62. So far, that issue went strongly against the Republicans stance

which translates into a clear majority of the people didn't agree with Government interference in the very private family matter. We cannot continue to frame our debates around what we perceive to be simple issues. We must be bold enough to take the bull by the horn and do what we must do to intelligently and clearly convey our message.

The only thing that troubles me is that by the time the elections season is upon us this particular issue won't be even much remembered.

My advice, don't COMMIT to an issue to fight over so early in the season and also, don't make it GENERAL knowledge.

[gumby]

20. "Framing" is all important,

as has been suggested. However 1) Dean seems good at this. 2) all that is needed is to talk facts.

Almost ALL Americans espouse a "belief in God." If less than half the country supports the Republicons (they lost the last 2 presidential and other elections), then the other Majority who "believes in God" are just as important in fashioning public policy. Yes?

I'm always amazed at the success of the reich-wing claiming 'religious persecution.' The reasons they do this should be made clear in simple terms. If that happens, they loose.

[NAO]

23. It should be a proxy attack done by moderate Christians rather

than a direct attack by Democratic leaders.

To have it be a party stance would make it too easy for 'them' to (continue to) paint the Democrats as "the godless party".

Rather, it should be a charge led by moderate and progressive Christians, and other non-secular advocates of religious tolerance.

[Erika]

25. Democrats are moderate Christians

We're doing just fine.

[Radical Activist]

26. Good point.

Get Jesse Jackson to lead it. Maybe this is why he defended her at the last minute. It also helps that Reid is a devoutly religious man.

[Erika]

32. Who's talking about ignoring them?

They have to face the facts that the majority of Americans were offended by the GOP choosing to enlarge the federal government as to take control of private personal family health matters.

[Alizaryn]

30. I can't remember where I read it but, someone made a

statement that stuck with me. There are a certain percentage of Republicans, the conservative "evangelicals" included that will never, no matter what vote for a Democrat. In my opinion Dean is on the right track but the Schiavo subject will have to be treated tactfully. There are a great number of people who either didn't bother to vote or voted Republican out of not wanting to risk a change during a war/terrorist threats. Those people are the ones that should be waking up right about now to what the heck their vote or non-vote resulted in.
I don't believe that they saw the extent of what their votes would affect.
I don't believe that they saw the extent that their votes were going to empower a Religious sect to be in control of the White House, Congress and their lives (if they have their way).

I think ignoring this group of people by avoiding the subject would be a mistake.

[Gothmog]

33. Polls on schiavo circus indicate that this is a good issue for us

People were so disgusted with the GOP grandstanding on Schiavo that this may be a good and even a great issue. The GOP is too tight with the religious right and many people are uncomfortable with the beliefs of the extreme religious right. We need to work on this issue

[Quixote1818]

34. Use it and go with it HARD!!!!

I am leaning toward it being a good idea but they really need to think about how they do this. If it were the other way around Rove would run with it and we would get our asses handed to us. Perhaps the best plan it to go with it FULL THROTTLE! GET NASTY and play hardball! Too tentative and they will shoot back harder than us!

[Quixote1818]

35. Hey, I thought you hated Schiavo posts Will? nt

[fujiyama]

36. I like Dean a lot

but I'm not sure if this was worded the right way. Part of it may have been the media taking something he said out of context, but it may not be the best way to have phrased it (saying we'll use something like that to a political advantage sounds somewhat crass IMO).

For once, I was actually happy with the fact that Dems kept quiet on something. I'm glad they didn't make the Schiavo thing too political, though it's obvious the pukes did that and it's too late.

Dean is absolutely correct though that the hypocrisy - and unwillingness to do anything useful for the American people (they care so much about life right? What about health care?) - of DeLay, Santorum, and the entire GOP must be a central part of the '06 elections. DeLay especially, because of his extreme corruption (though Santorum is a corrupt bastard as well).

Either way, I say hit 'em with everything.

[LittleClarkie]

37. Good idea, but somehow I don't think I would have announced it

Gives them time to come up with a rebuttal.

[deacon]

38. And why shouldn't he/we use this--it's all true, not like the manufactured

swift boat crap. All our candidates should follow this lead.

[Swamp Rat]

40. No holds barred!!! Smack'em down!

Smash their little eggie-weggies! :spank:

[sandnsea]

42. "use" Schiavo

Still a piss poor choice of words. Don't know why you couldn't stick with Delay/Theocracy right to privacy and abuse of power; and leave Terri Schiavo out of it.

If you insist on saying "use" Terri Schiavo, or actually even mean to "use" the poor woman, then it's an absolutely digusting idea.

[ReadTomPaine]

44. FRC's "Justice Sunday" is the GOP leveraging the Schiavo matter right now.

They didn't wait a moment to open that box, so any criticism from their quarter is irrelevant.

RTP

[OETKB]

48. It can work

It depends what part of this circus is emphasized. I vote for the rule of law and responsible leadership. This was so lacking in the radical Republican approach. As more facts come out, such as the complete dismissal of accusations of Michael Schiavo's abuse of his wife, the hypocracy of people like Tom Delay making similar painful decisions with his own dad, and that government in the form of its judiciary played a rightful place in choosing who would be the decison-maker in this case. It plays even further as a tyranny of the minority by invoking the possible use of the "nuclear option" and passing unconstitutional laws in the middle of the night with less than a majority of the full house(208-47). The Senate representation is such that you can have a majority vote and actually represent less than half the population. The goal here is true representative government where all solutions are put on the table and then legislative rules that have been worked out over the course of our Democracy are used to make law. For me liberty is freedom within the law from the majority as well as the minority.

It must be strongly pointed out that this is not a religious issue. We are not a nation of religious laws, in fact, quite the contrary. Religious law is based on beliefs, not facts or experience. The set of citizens who engage in this debate from the sidelines must be made to personalize how they would feel if laws were written or government acted by setting a belief system that was not their own.

[Toucano]

49. I voted terrible idea

Only because I'm concerned about it backfiring.

A lot of Democrats are on record as voting for the feds to interfere.

I'm good with taking on the theocracy part, but leave Schiavo out of it. People are disgusted by the whole mess and one shouldn't spit into the wind.

[qanda]

50. I think it's a terrible idea!

I thought the whole point was that we didn't want the Terri Schiavo thing to be politicized.

[barb162]

54. ditto; I can see ways where this would backfire.

[Jack Rabbit]

58. Terri Schiavo has been politicized. The right made sure of that.

This isn't about Terri Schiavo. This is about freedom of religion and church/state separation.

The demagogues are out there propagating ideas like the very idea of church/state separation is a satanic lie. I kid you not. A convention organized by the Judeo-Christian Council for Constitutional Restoration was held earlier in this month in Washington featuring speakers who promote ideas like that.

We have got to stop assuming that such ideas are too preposterous to catch on, even when they are. The right has promoted a number of ideas that are equally preposterous and it got us the invasion of Iraq and budget deficits resulting from tax cuts that benefit mostly the wealthiest.

The fact is that the Constitution mentions religion twice. Both times it separates church and state. In Article 6 of the main body it says:

(N)o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

The more commonly cited clause is in the :

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof(.)

What part of separation of church and state do they not understand?

Whether it was right or wrong, the reason that Michael Schiavo was allowed to ask that his wife's feeding tube be removed was simply that Florida law gave him that right. It said that in the absence of written instructions from the patient, the decision will be that of the next of kin; in this case, that was her spouse. No convincing evidence was presented to show that Mrs. Schiavo was in anything other than a persistent vegetative state; no convincing evidence was presented to show that Mr. Schiavo put her in that state. There was simply no legal cause to take the decision out of his hands. The same legal opinion was handed down by judges of differing political biases.

We should respect the right of those who disagree to urge that the laws be changed. However, to attack the judiciary for ruling as they did on law that was really quite clear is out of bounds. And to charge that these judges are judicial activists who legislated from the bench because they did not impose some Biblical jurisprudence not found in either written law or prior decisions is nothing short of hypocrisy. If judges were to act as those attended the convention of the Judeo-Christian Council for Constitutional Restoration would like, that really would be judicial tyranny.

[Poiuyt]

53. I think everyone will have forgotten about Terri in 2006

[Zynx]

56. I think we should focus on their attempts to attack the judiciary.

[Fifth of Five]

57. I agree with the message, but

I am afraid it will be played in the media as more exploitation of Mrs. Schiavo.

That could quickly turn to bite us in the ass. Won't bother the base, who will understand the message, but may alienate the more moderate who are already fed-up with the Mrs. Schiavo being used as a political football.

[anarchy1999]

59. Great Idea. I hope he does.

Thanks Will.

Opinion polls from you are rare.

[SemperEadem]

65. It's a good idea to use FACT as a weapon against the thugs

instead of hystronics and tantrum throwing.

The rethugs have left nothing but destruction in their wake since Jan 20, 2005. Those folks who are in financial dire straits because of the maneuverings of the pro-bank/pro-corporation reform party; those who have been stripped of real and affordable health care options might be more inclined to look at a broader platform due to their plights. They may not. But Dean is right--they need to have their tactics flung in their teeth.

[Al-CIAda]

66. re: 'religion'- I think it would be most effective to point out the

TRUE teachings of 'religion' -that is, forgiveness, the resposibility to help the poor, and stewardship of the earth. Christ talked about these most of all. Pound Christ's 'Sermon on the mount' over and over. TRUE compassion, TRUE community, TRUE understanding.

I'm not suggesting the Dems go 'religious', but it sure would be nice if those of faith (especially liberal Christians) would speak to these issues. The Christo-fascists have perverted Christ's teachings into a vehicle of hate.

[Jack Rabbit]

70. Dissenting

As a freethinker, I would never be so presumptuous as to tell a Christian what Christianity is. Of course, any Christian who tells another what it is may be equally presumptuous, especially if the issue is a narrow interpretation of doctrine that may be open to dispute.

It is not the state's business to save souls. It is not the state's business to interpret anyone's religious dogma or doctrine.

The issues are religious liberty and the separation of church and state. Exactly what do they mean?

The Constitution mentions religion twice. One is in Article 6 of the main body:

(N)o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

The other is in the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof(.)

The clause from Article 6 means that being a Baptist makes one no more nor less qualified to hold public office than one who is a Catholic, a Buddhist or an atheist. No one can prevent an individual from voting for only candidates of a certain religious persuasion if that person believes that only Methodists or Presbyterians should hold public office; but if such a person were to bring suit to prevent a Jew or a Muslim from taking office to which he has been duly elected or appointed for no other reason than his faith, then that person would be laughed out of court.

The First Amendment's reference is a compound sentence. The second part means that the federal government cannot outlaw the practice of Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, any sect of Christianity or any other religious teaching. Nor can it compel any individual to attend or otherwise support any church if he doesn't want to for any reason.

The first sentence means that the neither Southern Baptist Convention, the United Methodist Church of America, the Roman Catholic Church nor the San Francisco Zen Center is going to be made the official state church of America. There isn't going to be an official state church of America in the same way the Anglican Church is the official church of England, the Lutheran Church the official church of most Scandinavian states or the Roman Catholic Church is the official church of several southern European and Latin American nations.

It also means that a judge who, in reaching a decision, invokes Biblical teaching (i.e., his personal interpretation of it) and trumpets that above or even equal to written legislation and prior legal opinions is more guilty of judicial activism and legislating from the bench than any of those who had the Schiavo case brought before them. That would indeed be judicial tyranny. Yet that is exactly what Tom DeLay, Seantor Frist and some members of Congress want. And we must oppose them.

[New Dealer]

69. I voted "Bad Idea"

Honestly, by 2006 I don't think anyone will know or care. Social security and judicial filibusters are more important I think, and Republicans are trying to destroy both of them.

[Jack Rabbit]

73. Few will mention Schiavo in 2006, but church/state issues may be hot

Mr. Pitt mentions two different issues in the root post. Schiavo and theocracy are really the same issue: the proper separation of church and state and the separation of constitutional powers. Tom DeLay is really two different issues. He chose to make Schiavo a federal case, or at least tried to (the federal courts didn't know what to make of it and didn't hear it). Mr. DeLay, when he talks about the "clear intent of Congress", seems to be asserting that the courts failed to rule on the matter as he believed they should have.

DeLay is also a sleaze issue. That has nothing to do with his peculiar constitutional views. If a powerful House Democrat were shaking down lobbyists for money to go to the Democratic campaign fund and telling the lobbyists to hire only Democrats, DeLay would be among the first to cry "foul" and rightly. I would hope such a Democrat is given a fair trial and sent up the river, as I trust DeLay will be.

However, in the next eighteen months, the Republicans can back away from threatening judicial independence or the separation of church and state and they can stop making excuses for DeLay's extortion racket. I know they're benefiting from that racket, but that makes it all the more important for them to speak out or be dragged down with him. The sooner he's gone, the sooner he will cease to be a liability to them.

[Tactical Progressive]

71. They need to be painted as what they are

people who use Christianity as a mask for their malevolence.

Painted so unashamedly, continually and from all corners.

[sundancekid]

72. value of the idea depends TOTALLY on HOW it's used ... we, too,

can benefit from adopting the old Lee Atwater maxim of: (paraphrasing) while your opponents are shooting themselves in the foot, do not interrupt them.