Why are "religious" DUer's such a bunch of whiney crybabies?

[devilgrrl]

Just asking?

[progmom]

1. well that's a lovely generalization

:eyes:

[devilgrrl]

8. Yeah? Well, I'm sick of threads like this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3498708&mesg_id=3498708

[progmom]

16. i am too

I'm sick of people complaining about Christianity bashing, mainly because all it does is invite more of the same.

All in all, I wish we were all able to be more tolerant of each other's belief systems, whether they are religious or not.

[devilgrrl]

21. I'm very tolerant...

until I see flame baiting threads like the one cited.

Yes, I am aware that two wrongs don't make a right but I just can't help myself when I feel like I'm being singled out without being guilty of the crime I'm accused of. Ya know?

[Catholic Sensation]

26. why would you feel like you're being singled out if you're innocent

if you're not being "indiscriminantly" hateful of religion, why should someone asking about this make you feel singled out?

[devilgrrl]

42. Because singling out people is what they're doing...

by posting threads insinuating that there are DUer's who hate religion.

Fine, go right ahead, I'll just return the favor by insinuating religious types are a bunch of over-sensitive whiners.

[progmom]

28. I totally understand where you're coming from.

I'm usually fairly quiet about my own faith until I feel like I'm being lumped in with the right wing fundies. That's usually when I feel like I need to portray the other side of Christianity. I always feel kind of weird about it though - I'm not sure anyone really needs to hear my version of the story you know?

I didn't see the thread you were referring to when I posted my response - I'm sorry for the eyes roll.

[Kerrytravelers]

47. I feel the exact same way

I hate being considered part of that group. Especially with the 24/7 pope-a-thon. I'm Catholic. I'd happily explain the rituals, but the rituals are seperate from the hate the pope spewed.

I attended Mass after he passed, but just twice. Other than that, I haven't set foot in a church in almost two years. And even before then, I wasn't regular. I just can't bear to be in there right now.

[iconoclastNYC]

25. Does that apply to the belief

that Saddam caused 9-11, that we found weapons of mass destruction, that the tax cuts were a good idea?

If beliefs are wrong they should be exposed as wrong or at least debated.

[progmom]

32. they can be debated without being mocked

don't you think?

and I'm not sure what your point is with bringing those fallacies up - how are those belief systems?

[iconoclastNYC]

43. You don't think there is a right-wing belief system?

Those beliefs all fit into that right wing belief system which you demand be respected.

I don't believe in religion and alltough i have compasion for it's victims i don't think they should go around whining about people who aren't under thier same mind control or feel the need to bite thier tongue in case of offending people who are, in my view, cult members.

[progmom]

49. where am i demanding anything?

I think you're projecting some animosity on me that isn't there.

:shrug:

[Walt Starr]

The "martyred victim" syndrome?

:shrug:

[Walt Starr]

2. The "martyred victim" syndrome?

:shrug:

[liberalhistorian]

40. Good point.

I'm a Christian and I've rarely felt unwelcome here. And I get tired of RW fundies always complaining about being "persecuted", etc., etc., when nothing could be further from the truth. THEY are the ones attempting to force their own beliefs down everyone else's throats.

OTOH, there are some times when some people here disparage all religion and those who may be religious. That's not right, either. I can certainly understand the frustration with the RW fundies, and I share it, but sometimes such frustration is used to smear ALL Christians and sometimes even all religious people.

[Kerrytravelers]

3. Where did this come from?

[devilgrrl]

6. It's coming from here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3498708&mesg_id=3498708

[Kerrytravelers]

37. To be fair, I read through the whole thread.

There is some whining there, I will certainly conceed that.

Some of that anger comes from being lumped together wiht a bunch of christo-fascist theocracy-leaning rapid biggots. Those of us who identify as religoius/spiritual just feel so angry that our faiths are being manipulated by the likes of the * bots. We do get defensive at times, but often, we're just angry at them- the * bots. Just like those who choose to not practice a faith are mad at the "religious wrong" for pushing religion in their faces all the time, those who identify as religious/spiritual are equally as mad.

What we should do, instead of pissing one another off, is work together to take these mofos down. By those who chose not to practive a religious faith joining alongside those of us who do (and vice-versa, of course!) we will be a larger majority to tell the country that we don't want this theocracy.

But first, we have got to stop the infighting.

I read this, and I can't remember where, probably here on DU, that the Democrats is the party who embraces all those of various faiths and those who choose to abstain and the rethuglians are the ones who require it, and it must past a "litmus test" to be allowed at the table. (Ok, that was a paraphrase!)

I don't look on such threads as whiney, but rather just so damn angry at what is going on. Both sides here at DU have been taking out their anger on one another rather than the real culprit- the * bots and the religious manipulators. That's where my anger lies.

:hi: kt

[ret5hd]

4. cuz the economy's not so good and it pays well.

[deutsey]

5. Countdown to flame war/locking 5,4,3,2...

[WilliamPitt]

7. pzzzzzzzzcheeezzzz

[Richardo]

9. They're just looking (in vain) for a little respect and sensitivity...

...and don't really deserve the "quotes" treatment.

The DU crowd can be amazingly exclusionary and insensitive when it comes to religion - in ways they NEVER would if the subject were race, culture, gender or sexual identity.

[walldude]

Personally I'm only exclusionary or insensitive

when someone is trying to force their religion down my throat. I keep waiting to see what the Christians have in store for us Jews in their new theocracy...

[SoCalDem]

10. Because it's America, and they CAN be

:evilgrin:

[grytpype]

11. They demand to be taken seriously even though

they believe in a bunch of unbelievable contradictory made-up bullshit.

Oh, sorry, is it rude to say that? Sorry.

[Rich Hunt]

14. i don't know

That's a good question. Are words like 'arrogant' and 'smug' also rude? Perhaps we should start ten threads baiting people on this question.

[Bridget Burke]

12. The same reason the formerly-brainwashed whine & cry!

They were victimized by religion, you know. And they'll never get over it.

Wah, Wah, Wah.

[Lars39]

13. Does getting PTSD count?

How christian of you.

[Rich Hunt]

17. people persecuted for their religion

....also get PTSD.

[Lars39]

19. I would wager to say that there are more cases of PTSD

in those that have gotten out of a fundamentalist religion.

[Bridget Burke]

18. I'm not Christian.

I'm currently agnostic or atheist--I'm not sure which.

But I was raised Catholic--some would say I was never Christian.

[Squeech]

15. No, I think this is how it works

Does it piss you off when Dumbya wraps himself in the flag? When Ann Coulter calls you treasonous? When Hannity asks why you hate America?

That's how believers feel when DUers dump on Jesus, which they only do because they can't tell the difference between Jesus and James Dobson.

Try reading what Jesus actually said. There's a text called the Sermon on the Mount that's pretty good. Read that and tell us how Jesus was a Repuke.

[Generator]

31. Dumping on Jesus?

NO! I just said in another thread that I think the Catholic church and Jesus would disagree about most everything. I don't think organized RELIGION has a damn thing to do with Jesus. I would worship with anyone that is a real Christian-I'm just sure robes and dogma and all the rest have nothing to do with Jesus.

I'm also pretty sure a real Christian would never call themseleves "Christian" because I happen to think that word is polluted by organized religion.

Jesus was beyond cool. Maybe there is a church on this planet that is actually not the opposite of what Jesus was really about but I doubt it. There are plenty of good people that try to do good work but buildings and dogma called CHURCHES have nothing to do with that. The buildings called CHURCHES are not even necessary. The deeds are what matter. Not the words.

[beam me up scottie]

33. Why should I read your storybook?

nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. I would never call Jesus a repuke.

Paul, on the other hand...

[Kerrytravelers]

52. .....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[trotsky]

46. What Jesus actually said. I agree.

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. - Luke 12:51-53

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace but a sword. - Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. - Luke 19:27

Whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness. - Mark 3:29

------------

What's scary is that for every verse you point to as evidence of liberal faith, the wackos can point to another verse justifying their fundie hatred.

[theboss]

20. Oy vey

Over/under on this getting locked? 30 minutes? 60?

[Tux]

22. WTF?!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Now I'm sad and will run to the media about liberal bias, write a book about it, and appear as a guest this Christmas about Buddha being removed from Christmas.

It's generally the Christians one that are babies. Disagree with them and they fall apart then claim everyone is "persecuting" them.

[UdoKier]

23. As an atheist who often gets into it with the religous folks...

I heartily disagree. Most religious DUers have been civil and good-natured, and respectful of agnostic viewpoints. (unlike their fundie cousins)


There are a few thin-skinned ones who make a big fuss now and then, but they are the minority, just as atheists/agnostics who like to pick fights for no reason are a minority.

What was the point of this thread again?

[Zenlitened]

29. Good post. :)

:thumbsup:

[Bouncy Ball]

36. Another thumbs up for UdoKier.

Good post and thank you for it. Sometimes I feel like screaming "HEY! Not all of us with religious beliefs freak out if you criticize them!"

[progmom]

41. thanks UdoKier

:hug:

[UdoKier]

48. No Problem, but it's not a favor, just the truth.

There's always a few in every group that make a lot of noise and give a bad impression of everybody else.

Why should it be okay to stereotype "religious people" when it's not okay to do it with gays or ethnic groups? I'm amazed this thread wasn't locked right away.

[CitySky]

24. we're not!

Personally, I don't usually post on threads like this. But, admittedly, I do go to church 2 or more times a week, tithe 10% of my income, read my Bible and pray every day, try to follow the Bible in my personal life... so I guess that would make me "religious" in your book, right? :hi: I'm on DU to begin with because in my POLITICAL life I share the same progressive values as many of my fellow DUers.

Flame away about "Christianity" or not, no skin off my nose! God bless the First Amendment! :toast:

[Jo March]

35. Amen, CitySky!! God bless the 1st Amendment and

all of my friends of all faiths and no faith at all! I fully believe that there will always be bashers and whiners from all sides on DU. Doesn't really bother me too much. :)

I know my faith. I DO get angry, however, at how the RIGHT and the corp media protray us lefties who are religious. They seem to want to take away our faith: liberals can't be Christians and all that. That makes me mad.

I understand that most DUers aren't bashing Christians. They are lashing out at the right's twisted, sick version of what Christianity is. Of course, those right wingers are wrong in what they spew. DUers are speaking out against that.

[Dorian Gray]

27. The same reason

others are loud mouthed bullies. It's in their nature.

Just saying.

[Randi_Listener]

30. Who are you calling a fucking loudmouth?

[Dorian Gray]

39. Let's start with the loudmouthed bullyish supporters of

the very pResident that you are showing.

People who whine will whine no matter what. (It doesn't matter if they are Christian or non-religious.) People who bully will do so no matter what. It also doesn't matter if they are religious or not. Every person's nature is different. There are many Christian non-Whiners here. More than the Christian whiners, that's for sure.

[Bouncy Ball]

34. Well, I consider myself to be somewhat religious and I defy you

to find a single post of mine on DU where I am a whiney crybaby.

In fact, I support people's rights to criticize religion. Considering the fact that the religious right is currently in the process of taking over our government, I wish more people spoke out.

The thing is that some religious people take all criticism of religion personally. I don't. I know most of it here is aimed at fundies.

And the stuff that's aimed at ALL religion? So what? I can handle it. It doesn't bother me. But that's just me.

:shrug:

[ClassWarrior]

38. Except, it's "our government" that's taking over the religious "right."

The Terri Schiavo saga has prompted yet another round of fears that the Republican Party has been hijacked by religious conservatives. The truth, however, is just the opposite: Religious conservatives have been hijacked by the Republican Party.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-chait1apr01.story

Other than that, I pretty much agree.

NGU.

[LdyGuique]

44. You like starting contentious flamebait threads?

Sounds like good ole snert behavior to me.

[calico1]

50. Not sure they are being "whiney crybabies."

But if that's how you see it perhaps its because we do not like being thrown in with the radical, extremeist religious fanatics. Some people us pray, go to Church but do not preach to other people or force their opinions down people's throats or demand that all political decisions be based on their religion. They don't like being compared to people that do. Generalizations are not a good thing no matter what its about.

[starroute]

51. The real question is whether religion is part of the problem

Right now, we've got a planet to save, and I'll admit I'm not very tolerant of anything which gets in the way of that.

I'm not tolerant of organized religions which are consistently on the side of the most reactionary, most greed-based, most life-hating forces in our culture.

I'm not tolerant of belief systems which encourage people to ignore logic, ignore science, and ignore any form of analysis which points out the train wreck we are speeding into in favor of a strained interpretation of a set of three thousand year old parables which were designed for the guidance of people living in a radically different society from our own and with very different problems.

And while I do have some respect for religions with a historical track record of being on the side of sanity and generosity, when I see even those religious traditions being taken over wholesale by the most regressive elements within them, I find it very hard not to conclude that it is time for us to move on to something new and encourage others to do the same.

None of this is intolerance of religion. It's simply a recognition that religion -- like all other human institutions -- needs to evolve, and that when it doesn't, it becomes part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

[liberalhistorian]

53. I note that you have "religious" in

quote marks in your headline. Does that mean you don't give religious beliefs any credibility? Because that's the way it comes across.

I'm a Christian who, as I said above, does not at all feel unwelcome here. I understand that most of the frustration many DUers express regarding Christianity is aimed at the wingnut fundies who've seemingly taken control of Christianity in this country, attempting to force their own distorted beliefs on everyone else whether they like it or not.

But sometimes it seems as if some people really are against not just all religion, but those who are religious and they're disparaging. I respect the views of all other religions here, as well as those of atheists and agnostics, and I think people need to do that and not force their own beliefs on everyone else. And that includes atheists and agnostics.

[Junkdrawer]

54. What would DU be without an easy-to-use wedge issue?

Whadda trying to do? Put a bunch of pros out of work?

Jeeeze...

[Abelman]

55. Crazy Thread

Shall I post? I shall!

I don't care if someone questions my beliefs, but it pisses me off to hear some folks claim you can't be progressive and Christian - or any other religion.

Both sides tend to encite attack. Usually, most thread I see are started by Christians who feel slighted by people on DU. I find that they are mostly offended by those who call the Bible a "fantasy storybook."

If that's what you think, that's your belief. I will respect it, but stop trying to cram it down my throat. Stop being so close-minded.

I don't try to cram religion down other's throats but I expect respect for my beliefs and opinions; respect I reciprocate often. I get quite sick of threads on religion in the Lounge or GD; we have a seperate forum for that type of thing.

[Lone Pawn]

56. Interesting how the only 'whining' and 'crybabying' done on this thread

is the original poster, whining about religious people?

[neebob]

57. My theory about whiny crybabies in general

is that no one ever gave them something to cry about! As for religious whiny crybabies, maybe they weren't forced to attend church and told the Lord made them sick to teach them a lesson and stuff like that, so they think they can get away with it.

[Moderator]

58. Locking....

This is flamebait.


DU Moderator