I wonder how many Catholics the world over just lost hope.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

I know I did




Pope Benedict XVI

[mmonk]

1. Me too here

[Sequoia]

2. Why? I don't know. Thank you.

[mmonk]

9. He may not be all bad

but if anyone is looking for a little flexibility, they are to be disappointed.

[still_one]

3. I am not a Catholic but wasn't Cardinal Ratzinger

the guy who said that people who are for choice should not be allowed communion?

Does that also apply to child mollesters?

[CatholicEdHead]

34. Yes he was quite active encouraging

the anti-Kerry bishops last year.

[BlueEyedSon]

4. Come to the dark side (atheism)!

[Maru Kitteh]

30. Come into the light (Protestantism) n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

32. Protestants don't believe in transubstantiation

There's more to being Catholic than just the pope stuff.

[lonestarnot]

47. Or check out the Quakers...

[Itchinjim]

5. Me too.

[n2mark]

7. Truly

a depressing day for the church

[Southsideirish]

6. Count me in there. I was hoping for a kindly and saintly leader like John

XXIII not a doctrinaire ideologue.

[n2mark]

8. I wonder how much money

shrub gavve the cardinals to vote for Ratzinger, had bad bad vibes when shrub attended the funeral.

[FreedomAngel82]

15. Was he the one

who Bush wanted to be Pope?

[jrthin]

10. Count me as one who

has given up hope.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mist]

12. Anti-Ratzinger, not anti-Catholic. Try to distinguish b/twn the two. n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

14. Being Catholic doesn't mean you stop using your brain.

I don't have agree with someone because of the title he bears.

Your argument sounds like the Neo Cons who say that those that oppose the president are anti-American.

I'm disgusted by the Catholic Church. They are out of touch and they are just pushing people away. I've been Catholic my whole life, and in Catholic schools from K-12 grade. But go ahead, feel persecuted.

People should earn respect, not have it handed to them with a title. Haven't you read the Bible? Did Jesus bow to the will of the Pharisees and Saducees because of their titles?

[Macadian]

16. Oh great!!!

So now, not only is the new pope akin to The Evil Emperor, but you are claiming the robes of Christ for yourself!!!

I'm confident that most will not consider an anonymous internet post slamming a pope as on par with Jesus not bowing to the will of the Pharisees and Saducees because of their titles. You are sooooo brave.

Maybe you should stick your head out of your American bias for one moment and realize that American Catholics are only about 18% of the worlds Catholic population.

It is arrogant to think that the Pope will change theology based on American fads.

[Dark]

18. I think he's trying to say that we should strive to emulate Christ.

Not giving respect blindly is one way of doing so.

And I am not familiar with this pontiff, so I'll save my judgements. But I'm not a catholic anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

And the Pope would change theology, btw, based on American fads if he thought that the Americans would withdraw their financial support.

[Macadian]

21. Not giving respect is one thing......

...but intentionaly being DIS-respectful is another.

I'm not expecting people to praise the new pope. But I don't think it is too much to ask that he not be vilified either.

And the Pope would change theology, btw, based on American fads if he thought that the Americans would withdraw their financial support.

I honestly disagree. The Roman Catholic church is not exactly hard up for money.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

31. Respect for human beings is not a fad.

Being disrespectful is how people show their frustration. This pope, in his years of service since 1951, has continually been disrespectful to millions of people. If you don't think threats of excommunication for preaching tolerance or telling people they are inferior is not disrespectful but posting a picture on an internet message board is, well that is really sad.

[readmoreoften]

39. Um, sorry. Some members of DU are GLBT

and we have every right to call out a man who refers to us, consistently, as EVIL. Sorry.

[Don Claybrook]

56. altogehter now: Fuck the neocon sonofabitch

n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

20. Are you purposely being obtuse?

As the poster below said, we are to emmulate Christ. CHRIST. Not the pope. Perhaps you should start thinking for yourself instead of letting someone else decide what is right and what is wrong for you.

Since you have trouble following, let me simplify for you. We are Christians. That means we attempt to follow the example Christ set. Christ taught us that we should follow what is right, regardless of the opinions of the ruling order. So if I don't believe that Ratzinger is right, why should I follow him? When I stand before God, I need to answer why I believed this or that, and I don't believe "'cause the pope told me to" is a good enough answer. And if I don't follow Ratzinger, why should I lie about it and pretend I do?

Rights for all is not an "American" concept. In fact, as far as gay rights are concerned, America lags far behind European countries. Right is right and wrong is wrong no matter who's mouth it comes from.

And equality is a fad now? Really? That's is sad that you think so. Jesus said it 2000 years ago and supposedly we're Christians. If you wanted to look at fads, the fad of women not being in the Church is a lot newer than the fad of them being allowed to participate.

But instead of thinking about that, you'd rather plead persecution. If all Christianity is to you is following whosever happens to be head of state at the time, that's sad and pathetic.

[Macadian]

23. I'll type slower for you this time.

And please, don't make my arguments for me.

Being Catholic doesn't mean you stop using your brain.

I don't have agree with someone because of the title he bears.

True. And there is also no need to be disrespectful of someone because of the title he bears.

Your argument sounds like the Neo Cons who say that those that oppose the president are anti-American.

What you don't seem to understand is that being a pope is NOT like being a president. The President merely represents the United States. The Pope IS the Roman Catholic Church. You don't have to like this. You don't even need to agree with it.

So you 'oppose' the new pope. In what manner?

I'm disgusted by the Catholic Church. They are out of touch and they are just pushing people away.

Religion is supposed to be God centric and people are supposed to embrace the church. You seem to think that religion is supposed to be Man centric and that God is supposed to embrace mankind. It doesn't work that way.

I've been Catholic my whole life...

Same here.

...go ahead, feel persecuted.

Oh I don't feel 'persecuted'. I feel embarrassed that someone claiming to be Catholic would be so disrespectful to a Pope simply based on political opinion.

People should earn respect, not have it handed to them with a title.

You act like this guy just fell out of a tree. He has 60 years of service to the Catholic church. Why can't you admit that the reason you disrespect him is that you don't agree with him and therefore don't agree with the Catholic church.

You are Catholic in name only.

Haven't you read the Bible? Did Jesus bow to the will of the Pharisees and Saducees because of their titles?

Did the apostles bow to the will of Jesus?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

24. No, the pope is not "the Church"

Didn't you learn that in Sunday School? The Church is the communal body including ALL people of faith. Not just the ones that agree with whatever pope happens to be in power at the time. The function of the Church was to bring people to God, not push them away. You confuse the Church and God. God is God and the Church is NOT God.

And I disrespect him in spite of the fact he is the pope, not because of it. And guess what, you don't get to say who is Catholic and who is not based on what you feel like. American Cardinals wanted to block Ratzinger from being elected. Are you kicking them out of the Church too? If your definition of "Catholic" is someone that follows the pope blindly, then I'm not Catholic, but you just lost a good portion of Catholics round the world too.

And for your last question, Jesus was God. The pope is not. The pope is a man and since no man is perfect, he is subject to make mistakes as well as anyone else. Also, this is a great qustion of yours because Jesus SERVED the apostles. He made a big deal about that as he washed their feet. He told that THAT was the example to follow. To serve others. He invited people in. No, he did not bow to the will of the apostles, but when did he ever kick someone out of the Church because of their political leanings, their tolerance of others, or their inherent properties?

Did you sleep through religion class?


And on a side note "I'll type slower" doesn't even make sense :shrug:

[BPD2258]

26. I hope Pope Benny cleans house!

Here, Here!! Very well typed, Macadian!

The good thing about being religious is the power of free will. If you can't accept what the Pope is saying, then bye-bye. The Church isn't around for your pleasure. If you don't like it, get out. The Church will still be here when you pull you head out of your ass!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

28. Wow, that sounds exactly like the message of Jesus.

:eyes:

[Maru Kitteh]

35. Seems like such a wast of time for a freeper to bother with registering

just to display more examples of brownshirting and other mindless zombie behavior.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

36. Makes no sense to me.

"Sorry, I liked you yesterday, but today my leader told me that you are evil. See you in hell. "

[SemiCharmedQuark]

29. Also, when did Jesus establish the Church to push people away?

He wanted to bring everyone into the Church. EVERYONE. Even when nobody else would touch them.

[BPD2258]

41. stop the religious relativism

Jesus also set up the rules for the Catholic Church and some people want to bend (or break) those rules 2,000 years later. The Catholic Church is "Universal" but it is not a democracy. Some Church teachings are difficult to understand, but that doesn't mean we should change the rules to satisfy everyone's wishes. Luther did that 500 years and ago and now there are over 30,000 different Christian churches in America. There has always been dissent in the Catholic Church, but this thread is nothing but Catholic-bashing since the new Pope is conservative. If you don't like the Catholic Church teachings, then go to another church. Stop trying to change 2,000 years of dogma.

[readmoreoften]

43. Do why did you come to DU?

This isn't the way to introduce yourself to a community. And if you're just a freeper, your posts will be deleted in minutes anyway.. huge waste of time.

[BPD2258]

46. Catholic and Democrat

Why can't I be both? Why does a voice of faith and religion have to be a freeper. Free Republic is a group of radical conservatives. Why can't I be a Democrat and Catholic. Do I have to follow some rule book to post here? Why would my posts be deleted? What have I said wrong here? I have no opinion because it doesn't follow yours? I'm sorry you feel debate is a waste of time. I'm Catholic, I'm a Democrat, and my opinion is just as respectable as yours or anyone elses. If you don't feel that way, then my bad.

[readmoreoften]

50. Yes if you come here lecturing liberal catholics about

how they should get out of your church and reference that the catholic church isn't going to change over 'american lifestyles' and relativism then you're going to get labeled a freeper.

And, in fact, gay and lesbian rights are not an 'american lifestyle' there have been GLBT people since the beginning of time, in Asia, Africa, and over 50% of the Native American tribes, not to mention Grecian antiquity.
Other than saying that you're a democrat, you align yourself with a conservative branch of the RCchurch. Right now, you're a democrat in name only.

[BPD2258]

52. You're right...

I'm a conservative Catholic and I should have know better. We can agree to disagree on the Catholic issue. Of course, this is Democratic Underground, not Liberal Underground, so don't assume that because I hold conservative views on Catholicism, I'm not a true Democrat.

[BPD2258]

38. I'll type slower as well...

If you are Catholic and you don't like what the Pope says or stands for... GOODBYE! The Church does not need you and neither do the faithful. Sorry for having a religious opinion. Doesn't Dean want us to be more inclusive and allow religious debate? Calling me a freeper or a zombie doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.

[readmoreoften]

40. And if you support your pope's characterization of me

as part of an ideology of evil, then I don't care how you vote... you are more my enemy than someone who robs my house. You try to deny my humanity and that's worse.

Those Catholics who are working for change within their religion have real sympathy. Jackboots who support this man's policies have nothing to say to me.

[BPD2258]

42. sorry for the anger

I'm sorry you see me an enemy. I deny you nothing and I will pray for you and those that are trying to change the Church.

[readmoreoften]

44. huh?

Trying to change your Church to not discriminate against me? So... you'll pray for ME and you'll pray to stop those who want to help people like me.

Makes no sense.

[BPD2258]

45. what?

How is the Church discriminating against you? And yes, if those people in the Church are trying to change 2,000 years of established dogma to satisfy their need to lead whatever lifestyle they want today, then I will pray to prevent that from happening. No violence, no hatred, no vitriol, just leave the Catholic Church alone.

[readmoreoften]

49. Whatever LIFESTYLE I WANT huh?

Do me a favor and don't pray for me. Leave me alone. Your church already calls me evil. When you burn in hell for all the gay kids your religion drives to suicide, when you account for the millions of dead in Africa of AIDS by your church's policy, when you keep your church from writing EDICTS that tell your members to vote against my ability to take care of my partner who is in remission from cancer, then... well then it won't matter anymore will it.

Tell your church to leave ME and my WORLD and the people I LOVE ALONE and until then I don't care if you vote for Attila the Hun... your no brother of mine.

Your a liar. You don't care for me. You're a quiet hatemonger who lets others do the fighting for him.

[BPD2258]

51. nothing personal

The Church doesn't hate YOU, but it disagrees vehemently with your lifestyle. So far the hatred comes from you, not me. I'm sorry you feel this way. I will leave you alone.

[readmoreoften]

53. your church hates me and is responsible for the death of

millions of people like me over centuries and the fact that you continue to support its policies puts the blood on your hands. Nothing personal. People like myself just vehemently disagree with the fact that people like you come between me being able to care for my partner when she's on her death bed. Your church denies me the right to drain her sores and give her comfort. Nothing personal, but I have to fight people like you for my survival. Nothing I have in common with you in an economic sense matters because you would fire me if you found out I was gay, and you would deny healthcare to my family.

You sound nice enough, but your civility really means nothing to me. You deny me my basic humanity. My relationship is not a lifestyle. It's buying groceries and cleaning up vomit when she's on chemo. Just the fact that you call it a 'lifestyle' is dehumanizing.

[arwalden]

54. You're Correct!!

It's the fault of the church, the pope, and it's supporters (even those who say nothing and offer silent permission) for vilifying homos and for helping to create an atmosphere of intolerance and hatred and violence.

-- Allen

PS: I'm always amused at how some folks I encounter offer to "pray-for-me". What an arrogant thing for them to do.

[BPD2258]

55. Intolerance, Hatred and Violence...

What are you talking about? Isn't the term "homo" derogatory? I would never call someone a homo. How rude of you.

Jesus even prayed on the cross for the Pharisees and Romans who were killing him. Prayer is not arrogant, it's uplifting and inspiring. My prayer for you would be for God to help you get past YOUR intolerance and hatred and view people in a more positive manner.

[arwalden]

57. You Need To Get Out More...

<< What are you talking about? >>

I'm talking about the hatred and bigotry that the Catholic church and its leaders express towards homos.

<< Isn't the term "homo" derogatory? I would never call someone a homo. >>

Really, you need to get out more. Things are changing in the REAL world, you're allowed to say "homo" and "mo" and even (gasp!) "queer" nowadays. :eyes:

<< How rude of you. >>

Oh my god! Referring to myself as a homo is rude? Really? Puh-leeze! (It's worth noting that you certainly don't have much authority to stand in personal judgment of me.)

<< Jesus even prayed on the cross for the Pharisees and Romans who were killing him. >>

What did he say about homos? What's the inspiration and motivation for the Catholic church's bigotry and hatred towards homos?

<< Prayer is not arrogant, it's uplifting and inspiring. >>

That's true only when it's kept private and not thrust upon someone in the manner that many around here tend to do.

<< My prayer for you would be for God to help you get past YOUR intolerance and hatred and view people in a more positive manner.>>

Save your prayers for yourself. It's arrogant to thrust them upon someone in that manner (and it's dispicable to use them as a way to veil and disguise your personal insults.)

Hell... as long as your hurling arrogant insults my way, why not just let-er-rip and say something like "I'll pray that you're less of an asshole". Or "I'll pray for your sodomite soul and that you give up your your ideology of evil."

Oh brother! It just never ends!

-- Allen

PS: Oh! Welcome to DU! I look forward to seeing you around.

[readmoreoften]

59. He should pray for the gay catholics who will commit suicide

over this. I'm doing very well.

[One_Life_To_Give]

13. US Catholics are pretty Liberal by comparison

AFAIK The members of the Catholic church in the US are quite Liberal compared to the "typical" catholic. With most of their growth in recent years coming from Africa, and their strength in Latin America. he surprising part is that they didn't pick a Pope from one of these areas. But selecting a Pope who represents the conservative nature of these regions is not really surprising. To me anyways.

[Dark]

17. It isn't surprising. The church wants money, something Africa and

Latin America doesn't have.

Western Nations, like the U.S. and Germany, however, do. . .

[Squatch]

19. I will never lose hope.

Ever

[barb162]

22. my friend is very upset at least; no need to lose hope

as they always say, the church is eternal.

[kalibex]

25. Silly you!

The whole point of the Catholic Church is that it's an institution that changes as little as possible!

And you guys somehow expected something different...?


-B

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. Now, I have hope for a new and true Church. Forget the Pope.

Trust in God.


Clarification: I'm done with the Catholic Church as it now stands and am wholeheartedly supporting another set of gripes nailed to the door.

[Maru Kitteh]

37. Mrs.Grumpy, I hope you find a new community of faith where you feel

comfortable and hopeful again. Please don't abandon the idea of all church because finding the right one can be a real blessing and a salve. There are some very liberal churches where you will be welcomed with open arms. Good luck to you.

[Sapphire Blue]

33. I am weeping. My heart is weeping. My soul is weeping.

Born into a Catholic family, baptized Catholic, I am now a ‘cafeteria Catholic’ at most, feeling that the RCC rejects & condemns people in a way that Jesus never would.

Through the years I have sporadically attended churches of various denominations, but typically pray in private...

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret; and thy Father who seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

- Matthew 6:5-6


I was hoping that the Cardinals would select a pope who walked in the footsteps of Jesus... one who would be an advocate for “the least of these my brethren”. They chose Ratzinger... I can’t bring myself to call him ‘Pope’ at this time, don’t know if I ever will. Time will tell what he brings to the Papacy.

Right now, I am terribly, terribly saddened. Terribly saddened.

May God / Allah / Jehovah / YHWH / the Creator / Waheguru / the One have mercy on us.


(Posted this previously in another thread, still weeping)

[readmoreoften]

58. I am sorry for your loss. Keep fighting. n/t

[scarlet_owl]

48. Not this Catholic.

I will never lose hope. My faith is first and foremost in my life, and it is going to take a lot more than this to make me give up. The Church is more than just the Pope.