What do we know about Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI?

[Skinner]

I don't know a thing about the new Pope, and I'm guessing that a large number of DU members share my ignorance. I was hoping that perhaps we could collect all the info we know about Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI here in this thread.

Let's make this a flame-free zone. If you want to have an argument about the new Pope, there are probably plenty of other threads where you can do that. :)

Just post any facts you have about the new Pope and provide documentation you have to back it up. What's positive? What's negative? Collect all the info here.

What do we know about Joseph Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI?

[BattyDem]

1. The BBC did a profile on him ...

which I posted in another thread.

Here's the link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/profile/

[roguevalley]

119. This from www.americablog.org

Ratzinger to the Catholic News Service in 2002, commenting on the Catholic church pedophile priest scandal:

"I am personally convinced that the constant presence in the press of the sins of Catholic priests, especially in the United States, is a planned campaign, as the percentage of these offences among priests is not higher than in other categories, and perhaps it is even lower."

"In the United States, there is constant news on this topic, but less than 1% of priests are guilty of acts of this type," he said. "The constant presence of these news items does not correspond to the objectivity of the information nor to the statistical objectivity of the facts.

"Therefore, one comes to the conclusion that it is intentional, manipulated, that there is a desire to discredit the Church. It is a logical and well-founded conclusion."

[ClintonTyree]

129. Another, "personal responsibility" guy, huh?

He and DeLay ought to get together and plan strategies. It's always "the politics of personal destruction", nothing that anyone is responsible for. :eyes: I'm going to shut up now, before I start saying what's REALLY on my mind.

[shoelace414]

2. first off

he played a know-it-all mailman on Cheers

[moggie]

65. I thought he was better in Toy Story

Ok, so he's a conservative and rampant homophobe, but anyone who works with Pixar can't be all bad.

[youspeakmylanguage]

99. The new pope...

...is definately someone who has never been in my kitchen.

;-)

[WilliamPitt]

3. He is almost 80

What they call a 'transitional pope.' So as bad as the guy is, he won't be long in the position and won't have a major impact.

Yes, that means we're going to have to go through this crap again pretty soon.

[BOSSHOG]

13. I recall reading an article

about Papal Selection. A long time ago, a Pope (which one I do not recall) served for years and years and years. When he died the Cardinals chose the oldest and frailest amongst them so that would not happen again. The guy they chose lived for another 25 years.

[Walt Starr]

26. Yup

There is no way to count this guy out in just a few years. He could be there for 20 years for all we know.

[donheld]

135. Then again he could live as long as John Paul I

he may be gone in a month.

[LibraLiz1973]

67. The ? is... what if the "transitional" pope lives until well into his 90's

People are living longer & longer these days. It's not unreasonable to think he could live for 10-15 years in very good health. By age 78 Pope John Paul II was already riddled with health problems.


I'm sure some people think that a "transitional" pope is appropriate- I disagree. The best laid plans & all that....

[WilliamPitt]

127. I didn't say I thought it was appropriate

I'm saying that's the auspices under which he was chosen. Whether he lives long or not is in the wind.

[chicagiana]

102. I sincerely hope that he is as long lived as ...

... John Paul I.

[KC21304]

204. But think of all the like-minded Cardinals he can

put in place during his reign to insure the Church will be in this medieval mindset for MANY years to come. And they have gotten smart and are picking the Archbishops younger and younger. I expect my former Bishop, Archbishop Burke of St. Louis to be made Cardinal soon. What a right-wing crazy loon !

[Endangered Specie]

4. I checked Wikipedia (they are pretty neutral and unbiased):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Cardinal_Ratzinger

I find this to be interesting (quoted from wikipedia page)
"When Ratzinger turned 14 in 1941, he was required by law to join the Hitler Youth , but according to his biographer John Allen he was not an enthusiastic member. In 1943, at the age of 16 he was, along with the rest of his class, drafted into the Flak or anti-aircraft corps, responsible for the guarding of a BMW plant outside Munich. He was then sent for basic infantry training and was posted to Hungary, where he worked setting up anti-tank defences until he deserted in April 1944 (an offence punishable by death). "


edit to add more (emphasis is mine)

[SteppingRazor]

6. Whatever.

He didn't HAVE to join. His predecessor to the papacy, John Paul II, aided the Polish resistance.

[aintitfunny]

59. Since he was a German

citizen and not a Polish citizen and only 14 years old too boot, I expect he kinda did Have to join. I do not see what other choice a 14 year old kid would have.

[RITPTV]

80. Now we're holding 14 year olds responsible?

So Scalia was right? We should hold juvenilles responsible for their actions and allow the death penalty.

I can't believe anyone would think that a young German boy should be in any way held responsible for joining those facists.

They were a pretty intimidating bunch

[Is It Fascism Yet]

190. He never said he regretted his Nazi service, never said he was sorry, and

he never said it was in any way wrong. He never said Hitler's holocaust, which his Nazi service aided, was wrong, or that he was sorry it happened, or sorry for the victims, or sorry for his part. Falsely pious egocentric lil nazi. He also thinks three hail mary's are sufficient penance for sexual assualt on minor children.

[jasop]

206. Well said and very true..

This guy is the exact opposite of Pope John II and regardless of wether he was young during the Nazi era or not does not matter. How sad someone would actually compare holding someones convictions as a youth under scrutiny to being federally murdered.

[chomskysright]

214. quick attempt by Vatican to lead us into the tall grass...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1334-2005Apr19.html?referrer=email

Steadfast Beliefs in a Tumultuous World
By Alan CoopermanWashington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, April 20, 2005; Page A01
VATICAN CITY, April 19 -- In his words and actions, the man who on Tuesday became Pope Benedict XVI has shown a determination to hold fast to the moral certainties that have guided him from the horrors of Nazi Germany through the tumult of the 1960s -- even though these beliefs appear to be falling out of public favor across Europe and much of the developed world.
The choice of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, 78, to succeed John Paul II signals a stubborn unwillingness by the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church to abandon Europe to secularism. Despite John Paul's efforts to re-evangelize the church's historic heartland, Catholicism has been waning for decades across Western Europe, and nowhere more than in the new pope's home country, where an ecclesiastical tax collected by the government has produced a well-funded church whose pews are largely empty and whose influence on public life is in decline.

[Snivi Yllom]

232. Umm yes he DID say the Holocaust was horrible and DID apologize for it

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/44698_96.htm

ADL Welcomes Election of Cardinal Ratzinger as New Pope


New York, NY, April 19, 2005 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today welcomed the election of German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger as the new Pope, Benedict XVI. Under his leadership in Germany and Rome, the Catholic Church made important strides in improving Catholic-Jewish relations and atoning for the sin of anti-Semitism. Cardinal Ratzinger has been a leader in this effort and has made important statements in the spirit of sensitivity and reconciliation with the Jewish people.

Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:

We welcome the new Papacy of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. From the Jewish perspective, the fact that he comes from Europe is important, because he brings with him an understanding and memory of the painful history of Europe and of the 20th Century experience of European Jewry.

Having lived through World War II, Cardinal Ratzinger has great sensitivity to Jewish history and the Holocaust. He has shown this sensitivity countless times, in meetings with Jewish leadership and in important statements condemning anti-Semitism and expressing profound sorrow for the Holocaust. We remember with great appreciation his Christmas reflections on December 29, 2000, when he memorably expressed remorse for the anti-Jewish attitudes that persisted through history, leading to "deplorable acts of violence" and the Holocaust. Cardinal Ratzinger said: "Even if the most recent, loathsome experience of the Shoah (Holocaust) was perpetrated in the name of an anti-Christian ideology, which tried to strike the Christian faith at its Abrahamic roots in the people of Israel, it cannot be denied that a certain insufficient resistance to this atrocity on the part of Christians can be explained by an inherited anti-Judaism present in the hearts of not a few Christians."

Though as a teenager he was a member of the Hitler Youth, all his life Cardinal Ratzinger has atoned for the fact. In our years of working on improving Catholic-Jewish ties, ADL has had opportunities to work with Cardinal Ratzinger. We look forward to continuing that relationship.


read the speech here:
http://www.adl.org/main_Interfaith/cardinal_joseph_ratzinger.htm

[Is It Fascism Yet]

238. Ah, well, then, thank god for small favors. But still, couldn't they

have found a pope without such a checkered past? Someone who was more of an example of ethical heroism than this one was/is?

[Az]

240. Some of the things he did say were a bit disturbing

From the times online article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1572667_1,00.html) he basically said it was impossible to resist. Yet there were numerous germans that did resist and wound up in prison. Its a matter of convictions. I for one would not have stood by during such incidents and the message such a notion sends is a bit troubling.

[tedzbear]

31. He deserted in 1945 after Hitler was shot.

That's what I've read in other posts.

[Zynx]

32. That's inaccurate - he deserted in 1944

[Javaman]

69. Just finished the book, "the battle for Berlin"...

Actually, his statement about going AWOL from the hilter youth isn't all that unique. By mid to late 1944, the German army knew they were loosing the war, many people were deserting. The early members of the hilter youth were being pulled from the ranks by their parents and were trying to flee. Most of the die-hards at the end were a ghost of what it had been.
My point being is: if he really didn't want to be in, he could have not joined, many many didn't. He joined, forced or otherwise in 1941. That's when it was vogue to kick in non-German heads. And as far as he being ignorant to the atrocities, that's complete and utter BS. They all knew and were instructed daily as to the control over the "inferior" races.
This guy is a closet nazi. Those are the worst kind.

[ShaneGR]

92. Once again.... he was 14 years old....

In the last two years, the German Government had mandatory inductions of youth as young as 12 years old.

Now, his family could have chosen to flee to avoid that service, but to where? WWII Germany wasnt the type of place deserting families could travel freely in previous to 1944 (The time period his family would have had to flee).

And with all that said, at such a young age, he still ran away BEFORE the invasion of Berlin. So if he was a diehard nazi, he'd have been shooting at people in the streets of Berlin, as thousands of teenagers were in those last days.

Closet Nazi? I think not.

[jasop]

209. Well Said and Accurate! n/t

[Matilda]

145. Wikipedia gives May 1945.

Link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Cardinal_Ratzinger#Early_life_and_works

I've read this elsewhere too, because I thought it was a bit like
the rat deserting the sinking ship. Had it been 1944, it would
have been more commendable.

[IndianaGreen]

218. Hitler killed himself on April 30, 1945

so this means that Germany was already defeated by the time Ratzinger decided to defect.

Are you sure about the 1945 date?

[Lone Pawn]

217. 1945

[caraher]

236. The Hitler Youth thing is irrelevant...

if he were a Nazi "True Believer" I don't think there's a chance JPII would have worked with him given his own wartime experience.

There's more than enough fodder for assessing just how big a step backward his papacy might be in his public life. No need to mine his youth for sensational tidbits...

[catastrophicsuccess]

5. From WaPo

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22028-2005Apr2.html

[cally]

22. Excerpts from the WaPo article

He wrote a letter of advice to U.S. bishops on denying communion to politicians who support abortion rights, which some observers viewed as a slam at Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry. He publicly cautioned Europe against admitting Turkey to the European Union and wrote a letter to bishops around the world justifying that stand on the grounds that the continent is essentially Christian in nature. In another letter to bishops worldwide, he decried a sort of feminism that makes women "adversaries" of men.
...
He is a lightning rod for church liberals who see the hierarchy as reactionary. Ratzinger was active in stamping out liberation theology, with its emphasis on grass-roots activism to fight poverty and its association with Marxist movements.

He once called homosexuality a tendency toward "intrinsic moral evil" and dismissed the uproar over priestly pedophilia in the United States as a "planned campaign" against the church.

_______________________________________

I'm saddened and outraged by his ordination as Pope.

[Mandate My Ass]

28. Poverty is Ok, Pedophilia is Ok, intolerance is Ok, liberalism not Ok

did I forget anything?

[roguevalley]

40. he was head of the Inquisition. Enough said for me.

[starroute]

77. Is having the former head of the Inquisition as Pope . . .

. . . like having the former head of the KGB or the former head of the CIA as president?

[Dave Sund]

120. Like George Bush?

[jwirr]

152. I don't think he is old enough to have headed the

Inquistion! That was during the mediaeval days.

[ekwhite]

175. The Inquisition continued into the 19th century

Cardinal Ratzinger headed the successor office to the Office of the Holy Inquisition.

[barb162]

51. he will maintain whatever the previous pope did; they are (were) on

the same page and good friends. He will be consevative but then again to get to that level, hey, JP2 wasn't going to put in any liberals. Come on, get real. My friend called me at noon all upset about the new pope. And I said for what? If you put up with the last 25+ years of JP2, what will be the big diff? Is this new pope going to make women priests, institute new birth control rules, etc. ???? NO! The church was and will remain a conservative institution; it's greatest strength and greatest failing. This new pope will have what I call doctrinal purity and will push it. That's the way it's gonna be.

[youthere]

56. Kind of makes you wonder if

cardinals vote on Diebold machines.

[LibraLiz1973]

68. Great post youthere

:yourock:

Thanks for the chuckle!

[barb162]

73. bwaha (if that were the case, the new pope would have been shrub)

[janetle]

97. MADE ME LAUGH

[ktowntennesseedem]

100. Yeah, I read that exit polls showed him trailing,

even among "Nascar" Cardinals. What's up with that?

[Nikki Stone 1]

147. Nascar Cardinals--LOL!!

:)

[ktowntennesseedem]

215. Should we shorten that to "Nas-Cardinals?"

[chicagiana]

107. Apparantly there is dissent ...

Vatican City - Italy

Guido Cardinal Sarduchi is holding a desperate line with supporters that a recount will prove he is the true winner of the Papal Conclave. He bases his assertion that the new "Pope-O-Matic" electronic voting machines were rigged.

"Just looka at da smoke. The ting can't even ged da culor rid. Other skeptics pointed out that few Pope-A-Matics machines assigned to cardinals from the southern hemisphere. "Du Whit Cardinals, they had 1 mahine for avery Cardinal. We had only two machines for da ENTIRE sudern hemisphere."

Additional claims of vote rigging comes from Cardinals claming repeated attempts to vote for Saducchi resulted in votes for Ratzinger.

Ratzingers camp has fired back adamently that there were no voting irregularities. "Whatever happens during the conclave is effectively a sign from god. If the votes on the machines changed, than it is a miracle of god's will."

Ratzinger campaign managers also pointed out that many southern hemisphere Cardinals tried to vote in the wrong Sistine Chapel Precinct. "The directions were very clear. Those cardinals were told to vote under the mural depictiong god's wrath. It couldn't be more clear. We can't help it if those savage priests can't understand German."

[JPJones]

154. F-ing hilarious ! nt

[Is It Fascism Yet]

239. lol

[XemaSab]

82. you forgot rubbers:

not okay

[ananda]

125. not OK

"Poverty is Ok, Pedophilia is Ok, intolerance is Ok, liberalism not Ok"

Did you miss anything, you ask? That covers Ratzy very well. Also, how about...

Catholicism is OK ... all other religions are not OK

Men are OK ... women and gays are not OK

Conservative reactionaries with an Inquisition mentality reminiscent of the Middle Ages are A-OK ...

Riches beyond compare for me and the Vatican are OK ... internal church audits are not OK.


Sue

[zann725]

176. So that makes him a perfect philosophical 'match' for Shrubco?

This new Pope may be old, but if he lives even four years during OUR current Administration's reign...and works WITH them on world issues, four years could be a very long time.

A Nazi at 14...a very impressionable age, whether by fate or by passive choice.

[zann725]

177. So that makes him a perfect philosophical 'match' for Shrubco?

This new Pope may be old, but if he lives even four years during OUR current Administration's reign...and works WITH them on world issues, four years could be a very long time.

A Nazi at 14...a very impressionable age, whether by fate or by passive choice.

[Rich Hunt]

222. i'm confused

Where did he say that poverty and pedophilia are okay?

[youspeakmylanguage]

96. It sounds like there is enough bile on his plate already...

...without having a pointless debate on whether or not he was a willing or unwilling Hitler Youth - a point that can't be proven either way unless documentation or correspondence is somehow unearthed.

[rpannier]

130. Excellent Point

The guys a closed minded jerk. We should be focusing on his most recent sins. Not what he did when he was 14. God nows if we focused on what I did when I was 14 I'd look pretty bad too.

[daveskilt]

223. I was too busy masturbating at 14 to join the hitler youth

[chicagiana]

104. So much for ecumenicism ...

I guess we're back to the hard line. If you're not part of the "one true faith", you're going to hell.

My Uncle should be pleased. He's boycotted the Catholic church for years on account of it's "extreme liberalism".


All Hail Pope Clavin I!!!!!!

[GoneOffShore]

167. Phone call from Cathoic friend

in California.
He's a priest and said that Ratzinger's impending papacy troubled him.
"I'll make a good Episcopal." were his words.

O tempus. O mores!

[fooj]

7. Wrote a document in 2000 that denounced other faiths...

Great. Just what we need. Warns of the "EVILS" of liberalism. Rigid, intolerant...it just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it? The only plus here is that he is 78!

Peace!

[yellowcanine]

21. Don't forget Ol' Strom. 100 - 78 = 22. It COULD happen.

Of course the celibacy probably knocks off a few years....

[leyton]

55. In his defense, it is his job to uphold the faith.

The tradiational interpretation of Christianity has always been that it is the one true faith; Catholics say that every week at mass. Why should the pope be expected to be politically correct?

[chicagiana]

108. John Paul II ...

John Paul II dropped the old stringent line. He seemed to admit that there was more than one path to god and made many outreaches to other faiths.

This was the "new magic" of Catholicism ... TOLERANCE for other faiths. Now they're just like Baptists ;-)

[Charon]

199. John Paul II

Believe he elevated Ratzinger to Cardinal. I doube JPII would elevate a prelate who's on doctrinal issues was to far different than his own.

[jasop]

208. Thats absurd...

promotions within heirarchial institutions that resemble large corporations always have a system that allows for promotions from within even when one of the subordinates is of a different mindset...

[chicagiana]

211. Ratzinger was in charge of the "Inquisition" division ...

Look, you put people in a place where they are best suited. If you hire a security guard, you should find someone paranoid.

The beauty of John Paul II is that he respected and VALUED differences in people. If Al Franken can be friends with G Gordon Liddy, I think that JPII could have been friends with Pope Clavin (formerly Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger).

[FighttheFuture]

114. Upholding the Faith does not mean making it more and more

intolerant and hardline. They could also go to the more liberal end, as Vatican II was doing. After all, Christ was a Liberal. Of course, to do all that, they would have to go against the Syllabus of Errors and it "infallibility", which denounced liberalism and rationalism and errors.

It's the old Catholic joke:

Christ came preaching the gospels and what he got instead was this church!

[jasop]

207. Do some research...

Pope John Paul II had a rabbi as a best friend and was the first Pope to visit a synagogue among many other acts that showed his acceptance and understanding of other beliefs.

[Vanje]

134. 78 is young....

...for one of the undead

[PretzelzRule]

169. hmmm...."what are we going to do tonight, Brain??"

"Same as every other night, Pinky...we try to take over the world!!"

[Melissa G]

172. LOL!!! n/t

[daveskilt]

224. SNARF! nt

[Mandate My Ass]

8. He's no shrinking violet - he casued quite a stir in 2000

Exclusive claim
By JOHN L. ALLEN JR.
NCR Staff
Rome

Aiming to stop a new movement in Catholic theology in its tracks, the Vatican issued a major document this week emphatically denying that other world religions can offer salvation independent of Christianity and insisting that making converts to Catholicism remains an “urgent duty.”

The push within Catholicism to accept other religions as vehicles for divine revelation and saving power is often called the “theology of religious pluralism,” and is most closely linked to theologians and bishops in Asia. One consequence of this view is that dialogue with members of other religions, rather than attempts to convert them, becomes the focus of interreligious exchange.

The new document, titled Dominus Iesus, or “The Lord Jesus,” and presented by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in a Sept. 5 news conference, firmly rejects this stance. Ratzinger, the Vatican’s chief doctrinal officer, was joined at the news conference by his top assistant, Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, and by two priests who worked on the document: Salesian Fr. Angelo Amato, vice rector of the Pontifical Salesian University in Rome, and Msgr. Fernando Ocáriz, vicar general of Opus Dei.

While allowing that followers of other religions can be saved (though only in a mysterious fashion and only through the grace of Christ), Dominus Iesus insists they are nevertheless in a “gravely deficient situation” in comparison to Christians who alone “have the fullness of the means of salvation.” The full name of the document is “Dominus Iesus: On the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church.”

The document was swiftly branded a “pastoral disaster” by theologians involved in interreligious dialogue. In Asia, some experts predicted it could inflame already tense relations between Catholicism and other religious communities.


http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives/091500/091500a.htm

[The Doctor.]

70. I remeber that one...

I used it as an example of the arrogance of the church.

The press only talked about it for a couple of days.

[flyarm]

101. FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN REPORTED THE GERMAN

GERMAN CATHOLICS ARE NOT TOO HAPPY ABOUT IT..NOW WHY WOULD THAT BE YOU WOULD THINK HAVING A POPE CHOSEN FROM YOUR COUNTRY WOULD MAKE MOST HAPPY BUT IT HAS HAD THE OPPOSITE EFFECT IN GERMANY..
THE REPORT I SAW FROM GERMANY SAID HE WILL BE ANTI MINORITIES, ANTI WOMEN.....DOES THAT SOUND LIKE SOMEONE FROM OUR COUNTRY?? * PERHAPS??

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THIS POPE IS THE ONE OUR NEO CONS WANTED?? THAT IS WHAT I WORRY ABOUT MOST..I DONT WANT OUR NEO CONS HAPPY ABOUT THIS...I WANT THEM MISERABLE!!

I READ THAT * AND COMPANY WANTED THEIR CHOICE AND THEY WERE DOING EVERYTHING THEY COULD TO GET THEIR CHOICE ..I GUESS THEY WANTED A WAR LOVING POPE..DOES ANYONE KNOW THIS POPES POLITICS?

FLY

[rpannier]

131. From everything I've read about him

He agrees with the last Pope on almost everything. He's anti-death penalty, anti-Iraq War (The last Pope distanced himself from any member of the Church who didn't oppose the War), anti-abortion, etc. The only thing that he and the Pope seemed to differ on (that was substantial) is his opposition to Turkey in the European Union because Turkey is not a Christian nation and Ratzinger's belief in the supremacy over other faiths.

[Melissa G]

173. I was around the world of ecumenical dialog at this time

and it was not a pretty sight. This document was the elephant in the room. Ratzinger was not popular with the non RC's over this.

[happynewyear]

what Ratzinger said ... great just great ... :(

On Monday, Ratzinger, who was the powerful dean of the College of Cardinals, used his homily at the Mass dedicated to electing the next pope to warn the faithful about tendencies that he considered dangers to the faith: sects, ideologies like Marxism, liberalism, atheism, agnosticism and relativism — the ideology that there are no absolute truths.


"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the church, is often labeled today as a fundamentalism," he said, speaking in Italian. "Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and 'swept along by every wind of teaching,' looks like the only attitude acceptable to today's standards.


Ratzinger served John Paul II since 1981 as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. In that position, he has disciplined church dissidents and upheld church policy against attempts by liberals for reforms. He turned 78 on Saturday.


The new pope had gone into the conclave with the most buzz among two dozen leading candidates. He had impressed many faithful with his stirring homily at the funeral of John Paul II, who died April 2 at age 84.


Ratzinger is the first Germanic pope since monarchs imposed four men from that region in a row in the 11th century.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20050419/ap_on_re_eu/pope&sid=84439559

[Junkdrawer]

16. Not a Nazi...but he is a self-described Fundamentalist?

Wonderful. Just Wonderful.

[LynneSin]

24. Yeah, we got the John Ashcroft of new popes

:cry:

[DoYouEverWonder]

88. This pope

will make Asscroft look like a rational sweetie pie.

[funflower]

181. Pope John (Ashcroft)

Fortunately, he can't, like, arrest people. Or make them go to church or anything.

[RaleighNCDUer]

75. "Ratzinger is the first Germanic pope since monarchs imposed

four men from that region in a row in the 11th century."

In other words, since the last time the christian world was wracked with millenialist doomsday ideologies.

Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

[funflower]

183. No German popes lately

I think our friend Martin Luther had something to do with that, too.

[despairing optimist]

139. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith = Inquisition

It's the new bottle for an old wine transubstantiated centuries ago and left to ferment on racks and Iron Maidens, with occasional river duckings and stake burnings.

Ratzinger was rather surprising as the inside candidate who actually prevailed. I thought Cardinal Law and Michael Jackson would be running neck and neck.

Does anyone seriously expect progressive change from an institution that JPII had a quarter-century to sculpt to his liking? Whether Benedict lives two years or twenty-two, he will continue on the same path, as will his successor, who may be the cardinal from South America or Africa with a few more years under his belt to prove his adherence to the party line.

Before the likes of Rove and DeLay, there was the RC higher clergy, who can teach those sorry punks a thing or two about orthodoxy, rewards, and punishments.

[Junkdrawer]

9. Can't help but suspect he's playing into the St. Malachy nonsense...

Today the final two prophecies are yet to be fulfilled:

The 111th prophecy is "Gloria Olivae" (The Glory of the Olive). The meaning of the olive is unclear. The Order of Saint Benedict – not St. Malachy – has claimed that this pope will come from its ranks and Saint Benedict himself prophesied that before the end of the world his Order, known also as the Olivetans, will triumphantly lead the Catholic Church in its final fight against evil.

The 112th prophecy says, "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Petrus Romanus (Peter the Roman), who will feed his flock amid many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people.



http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/4/3/180901.shtml

..All of which means that the Left Behind Fundies will have orgasms over this pick...

[Historic NY]

54. St. Malachy's predictions or just add ins.......makes one wonder thou.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon85.htm

However, in the 1820 printed version of Malachy's prophesies, Lignum Vitre (written in 1559 by a Benedictine historian, Arnold Wyon), a 112th pope appears that was not in Malachy's original manuscript. The 112th pope was added by the Olivetan monks. The Order of St. Benedict claims this final pope will come within the Benedictine Order, and that he was placed in the secession line because St. Benedict himself prophesied that before the end of the world, his Order will triumphantly lead the Catholic Church in its battle against evil (the Battle of Armageddon).

St. Benedict's "prophecy" was more wishful thinking than it was spiritual insight from God. Although Malachy entrusted his vision to paper and gave the manuscript to Pope Innocent II for safe keeping, Father Claude Francois Menestrier, a famous 18th century Jesuit, claims the prophecies were actually written in 1590 by Cardinal Simoncelli to influence the election of the Cardinal of his choice as pontiff that year. The argument advanced by advocates who favor the later date is based on the whimsical notion that because Malachy never mentioned writing the papal ascension prophecy, he probably didn't. Skeptics of that era felt its more likely that Cardinal Simoncelli wrote them. However, three simple facts suggest Menestrier was wrong, and that Malachy did write them.

First, Vatican records show that the document was entrusted to Innocent II in 1140. Like many other important Vatican documents, the Malachy Prophecy was one of the early documents printed on the Gutenberg Press in 1455—135 years before Cardinal Simoncelli supposed wrote them. Second, while the Malachy Prophecy was unknown outside the church hierarchy, printed copies of the prophecy were in circulation before 1590. And finally, third, Malachy's Prophecy begins with the successor to Innocent II—Celestine II. Had Simoncelli wrote them, the Prophecy would have begun with one of three other Popes (since three pontiffs reigned that year). First, the prophecy might have begun with Felice Peretti who was elected Pope Sixtus V on April 4, 1585. He died on Aug. 17, 1590. Succeeding him was Gambattista Castagna who was elected Pope Urban VII on Sept. 15, 1590. He was the shortest reigning pontiff in the history of the papacy —12 days. He died on Sept. 27, 1590. He was succeeded by Nicolo Spondrati who took the name Gregory XIV. Spondrati was elected on Dec. 5, 1590 and died on Oct. 5, 1591. The Prophecy would not have begun, by prophetic inference with a pope—Celestine II—who had been dead for 446 years if Simoncelli wrote the papal prophecy. He would have known that Guido Del Castello de Castellis became Pope Celestine II. Nor would there be any reason to mention the other popes and anti-popes in the line of succession between Celestine II and Sixtus V or Urban VII or Gregory XIV since there would be nothing prophetic about mentioning long dead pontiffs by prophetic inference when the writer would have possessed their names..

[XemaSab]

87. You forgot the 113th prophecy:

The One With The Power To Vanquish The Dark Lord Approaches... Born To Those Who Have Thrice Defied Him, Born As The Seventh Month Dies... And The Dark Lord Will Mark Him As An Equal, But He Will Have Power The Dark Lord Knows Not... And Either Must Die At The Hand Of The Other For Neither Can Live While The Other Survives...

[funflower]

180. ROTFLMAO!

:rofl: :rofl: :woohoo: :yourock:

Only 87 days, 0 hours, 8 minutes, 21 seconds to go!

[Willy Lee]

202. Good one!! nt

[Sparkle]

10. Not being critical but I knew they wouldn't pick the dude from

Africa.

[Midlodemocrat]

12. But weren't you hoping? I was.

[redqueen]

17. He's a full-fledged member of Opus Dei, IIRC.

Not really much difference between the two, if that's the case.

[northzax]

43. Arisde (sp?) makes Raztinger look like a liberal

that's scary.

[Kathryn7]

219. Arinze from Nigeria is very conservative!!!!

[Sparkle]

25. I could care less who they pick but imo, they wouldn't choose

a black pope. Maybe 100 years from now.

[mrfrapp]

203. 2000 years too late

If they did have any reservations about choosing a black pope, then the Church has regressed considerably.

http://www.holyangels.com/black.htm

[zann725]

178. ...OR from Italy. Why pick an Italian Pope? Too logical.

No, pick a Nazi (or "ex")...or whatever...

Just remember, Shrub had a "special" private meeting with several of the Cardinals during his visit there recently...where the subject of papal selection never came up, I'm sure.

[kenny blankenship]

187. I don't know why we can't have another Borgia Pope!

they were always charismatic headline grabbers.
Plus, it's tradition and that's why we should stick with. Start changing things, and baddabing before you know it, everybody's a relativist.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

11. kick.

[Kathryn7]

15. Cardinal Arinze from Nigeria is just as conservative if not more so.

[liberalpragmatist]

171. Not really - Arinze is much more liberal on interfaith issues

On social issues he's just as conservative, but Arinze has been heavily involved in anti-povery and antiwar efforts.

Arinze is also very big on interfaith issues and says that non-Catholics and non-Christians can go to heaven. Ratzinger maintains that only Catholics can ascend to heaven and that Jews will one day have to accept Jesus.

Arinze is also far warmer, collegial, and genuinely open as are many other conservative cardinals like Tettamanzi of Milan. Ratzinger has none of that.

I'm not anti-Catholic or anti-Papist. I think that papacy has the potential to be a force for great good. And while I disagreed with a lot of John Paul II's decisions, I genuinely admired him and respected him. He did a lot of good and while he was too big on doctrine, he was also very forceful on war and peace and social justice issues, something that Ratzinger is not.

This is just about the worst choice the Church could have made. As some have pointed out, Ratzinger is not a continuation of the status quo, he is a giant step backward.

[crispini]

14. The pope's enforcer

Article from 1999, National Catholic Reporter

The Vatican’s enforcer
By JOHN L. ALLEN JR.
NCR Staff

Cardinal Joseph Alois Ratzinger was born in rural Bavaria on April 16, exactly 72 years ago. Perhaps it is fate that the day was Holy Saturday and his parents were Joseph and Mary -- eerie foreshadowing for a child who would grow up to become a stark sign of contradiction in the world’s largest Christian church.

Like so much else about Ratzinger, how far to press that biblical parallel is contested. Some say his 18 years as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the church’s guardian of orthodoxy, have been the intellectual salvation of Roman Catholicism in a time of confusion and compromise.

Others believe Ratzinger will be remembered as the architect of John Paul’s internal Kulturkampf, intimidating and punishing thinkers in order to restore a model of church -- clerical, dogmatic and rule-bound -- many hoped had been swept away by the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 assembly of bishops that sought to renew Catholicism and open it to the world. Ratzinger’s campaign bears comparison to the anti-modernist drive in the early part of the century or Pius XII’s crackdown in the 1950s, critics say, but is even more disheartening because it followed a moment of such optimism and new life.

At the most basic level, many Catholics cannot escape the sense that Ratzinger’s exercise of ecclesial power is not what Jesus had in mind.

Beneath the competing analyses and divergent views, this much is certain: Ratzinger has drawn lines in the sand and wielded the tools of his office on many who cross those lines. Whether necessary prophylaxis or a naked power play, his efforts to curb dissent have left the church more bruised, more divided, than at any point since the close of Vatican II.

more...


http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/041699/041699a.htm

[jean]

109. DeLay tactics: "Ratzinger has drawn lines in the sand and wielded the - -

tools of his office on many who cross those lines."

[goodhue]

18. a conservative hardliner

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/17/international/worldspecial2/17rome.html?

Based on Cardinal Ratzinger's record and pronouncements, his agenda seems clear. Inside the church, he would like to impose more doctrinal discipline, reining in priests who experiment with liturgy or seminaries that permit a broad interpretation of doctrine. Outside, he would like the church to assert itself more forcefully against the trend he sees as most threatening: globalization leading eventually to global secularization.

But some cardinals worry that it is healing, not confrontation, that the church needs.

[Zynx]

19. 78, decent health, very, very conservative, very, very close to JPII

Was the doctine watch dog and pretty much the enforcer of JPII. They almost certainly have similar or identical views on just about everything.

Ratzinger also certainly believes in the authority of his office. Some "Catholic" like Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly or Michael Novak that would try to tell him off could well get excommunicated.

Ratzinger also was the one who announced the doctrine of it being OK to vote for someone who held "evil" positions, so long as the "evil" position wasn't why you were voting for him - this was a direct repudiation of Republican-alligned bishops in the US out to block votes for Kerry.

He's in good physical condition for his age with no obvious diseases, so he will probably be more active than the later stages of John Paul II - but this will be almost wholly the same positions.

[TahitiNut]

20. Steadfast opponent of 'liberation theology' and proponent of Opus Dei

These are the extreme of the right-wing stances amongst the College of Cardinals. St. Benedict was an extreme ascetic who threw himself into a patch of thorns. This deliberate self-infliction of pain is generally called "corporal mortification' and includes a wide variety of practices including wearing a cilice (a belt that has barbs to pierce the skin), using a "discipline" (a knotted 'cat-o'nine-tails') to whip oneself, sleeping on a board or on the floor, and a wide variety of self-denials and self-abuses.

He will emphasize obedience above conscience and a rigid centralization of authority. Subjugation will be emphasized.


http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=863

(The National Catholic Reporter predicted in 2002 that Ratzinger was too extreme to be elected.)
http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/word0322.htm

http://www.opusdei.org/art.php?w=32&p=4761

[yellowcanine]

27. Also is in denial about the sex abuse scandal - promoted Cardinal Law

after he was run out of Boston for covering up on behalf of pedophile priests.

[TahitiNut]

29. St. Benedict and St. Bernard were both ascetics.

Bernard Law was named after St. Bernard. Opus Dei practices the asceticism (including corporal mortification) of St. Benedict and St. Bernard.

[leftchick]

46. omg... literally! That is what I was afraid of.....

Thank you for the links TN. Now I know I will be looking into another religion if he lasts long. He is 78 and the last Benedict was not long for the world. Jesus must be really pissed today.
:(

[XemaSab]

89. I thought the Catholics were opposed to

"self abuse."

[TahitiNut]

105. Only if its pleasurable. Advocates of corporal mortification are ...

... supposed to suffer. (I guess its a heresy if they have an orgasm while whipping themselves.)

[AuntieM1957]

197. I just don't get the self flagellation thing

as if life doesn't suck badly enough without the whipping!

Oh, I think I'll hit MYSELF!

[BOSSHOG]

23. Interesting little fact about the new Pope

Only three Cardinals were not appointed by JPII, Ratzinger was one of them (not appointed by JPII). For more on the new Pope:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050419.w2newpope0419/BNStory/Front/

[crispini]

33. Wow.

From that article:

But opinion about him remains deeply divided in Germany, a sharp contrast to John Paul, who was revered in his native Poland. A recent poll for Der Spiegel news weekly said Germans opposed to the cardinal becoming pope outnumbered supporters 36 per cent to 29 per cent, with 17 per cent having no preference.

Many blame the new Pope for decrees from Rome barring Catholic priests from counselling pregnant teens on their options and blocking German Catholics from sharing communion with their Lutheran brethren at a joint gathering in 2003.

[XemaSab]

90. The Lutherans are heretics

they worship the almighty casserole, instead of Our Lord, according to Garrison Keillor.

[NJCher]

157. OMG, that was funny!

:rofl:


Cher

[EC]

30. Here's an interview

and for a conservative Catholic (conservative in church dogma, not politics) he is pretty reasonable, although I don't believe we'll have lady priests, or married clergy, he does seem rational about birth control - against war and death penalty.

http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=733


On edit: This part of the interview seems to me to hit directly at the fundies:

Q: You are severe in the book with any one who uses the liturgy only in a communicative way, as a means of education of the faithful. Why?

Cardinal Ratzinger: I want to specify that the liturgy is communicative and pastoral.

I am opposed to those who think that it is only communicative when it is transformed into a spectacle, into a sort of "show," reducing to very little that great work of art that the liturgy is, when it is well celebrated, with interior participation.

In the last 20 years, Sunday Mass attendance in Germany has decreased by 70%. The faithful do not feel involved in "creative" celebrations that say nothing to them. Too often the liturgy is treated as something that one can dispose of according to one's whim, as if it were our exclusive property. But in this way we end up by corrupting it.

[JackRiddler]

34. He is the Grand Inquisitor...

No fooling. He heads the Office for Enforcement of the Doctrine of the Faithful, which is the direct successor office to the centuries-old Grand Inquisition. He is therefore the leading hardliner, enforcer and book-censor of the Church, and was JP2's right-hand man.

That he was in Hitler Youth as a German of that age at that time is kind of irrelevant, and hey, he did desert. Good for him. That's not as important as his adult life: close connections to Opus Dei and, most significant, his authorship of the 2000 document that upheld the supremacy of Catholicism and denigrated all non-Christian religions as illusions, with pretty much all non-Christians and most non-Catholics on their way to hell. This was followed by a direct hit on Buddhism as a "selfish" paganism by JP2, but although the document is the most important issued in JP2's reign, none of that was mentioned in all the media coverage until now, with Ratzinger's election.

R. has been an outspokenly conservative force and social-issues hardliner in the politics of Germany (where I first became aware of him many years ago, as I lived there for 14 years) and is quite unpopular there, including among Catholics. The Church democratization movement is strongest in Austria and Germany, and he is its bugaboo and chief enemy. Many high officials and intellectuals of the German Catholic church spoke out against his nomination last week, but this went completely unnoticed outside the German-language press.

Knowing all this, and knowing the situation of the Church and among the Cardinals of whom he was the speaker (2/3 appointed by JP2 and a very conservative lot), I called Ratzinger as the new Pope weeks ago in this very space. Do I get a prize?

[crispini]

38. Hey, I'm a selfish pagan!

Who knew?

And I give you the The Gold Star Award for Correct Prognostication: :thumbsup:

good post, thanks.

[Zynx]

47. It's way more than 2/3 of the Cardinals - try all but three of them

JP II was arond a while.

[Terran]

35. "The Eastern Church is the diseased arm of the Universal Church."

The BBC credited Ratzinger with saying that--a proundly offensive statement to I don't how many millions of Orthodox Catholics. They also reported that JP2 disagreed with him on that.

Makes you wonder how he must see Protestants...

[Mandate My Ass]

36. he's into corporal punishment: "Ratzinger literally slapped Ross' hand.

Ratzinger and his allies resist being held accountable to anyone but His Holiness, and this extends even to criminal matters. Consider the case of nine former members of the Legion of Christ, a conservative international congregation that strongly defends papal authority. They have struggled for a quarter century to get Rome to take seriously their accusations that the Legion's founder, the Rev. Marcial Maciel Degollado, had sexually abused them as seminarians. Unluckily for them, Maciel is a close ally of Ratzinger. Even after the charges were made against Maciel, the Pope honored him and made him his special representative to a Latin American synod. Ratzinger halted a canonical proceeding against Maciel in late 1999 without explanation. When ABC News' Brian Ross asked Ratzinger about Maciel in 2002, Ratzinger literally slapped Ross' hand. According to an article in The Los Angeles Times in September 2004, Maciel continues to host dinners for "Vatican luminaries" at the Legion seminary in Rome.

Küng says of John Paul II, "I would agree that he preached the gospel for the poor, he was for human rights in the world. But all this was in blatant contradiction with what he has done in his own Church, because he repressed human rights in the Church." There is little sign that this would substantially change if John Paul's Grand Inquisitor were elevated to the Chair of St. Peter.

http://users.starpower.net/rrosendall/archive/2005/raisingratzinger0113.shtml

[autorank]

52. This post tells me all I need to hear. Thank you.

[demo dutch]

37. He used to be a hitler youth.. and practically endorsed GW in

his statements on "catholic voting" during our elections

Papal hopeful is a former Hitler Youth
Justin Sparks, Munich, John Follain and Christopher Morgan, Rome
Sunday Times, UK

THE wartime past of a leading German contender to succeed John Paul II may return to haunt him as cardinals begin voting in the Sistine Chapel tomorrow to choose a new leader for 1 billion Catholics.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, whose strong defence of Catholic orthodoxy has earned him a variety of sobriquets — including “the enforcer”, “the panzer cardinal” and “God’s rottweiler” — is expected to poll around 40 votes in the first ballot as conservatives rally behind him.

Although far short of the requisite two-thirds majority of the 115 votes, this would almost certainly give Ratzinger, 78 yesterday, an early lead in the voting. Liberals have yet to settle on a rival candidate who could come close to his tally.

Unknown to many members of the church, however, Ratzinger’s past includes brief membership of the Hitler Youth movement and wartime service with a German army anti- aircraft unit.
More on...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1572667,00.html


He endorsed Bush and have a collaboration on gay mariage....

The Vatican has launched a global campaign against gay marriage in an attempt to reverse the spread of legislation in Europe and the Americas that permits it.

In a strongly-worded 12-page document signed by the Pope's chief theological adviser, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Church brands homosexual unions as immoral, unnatural and harmful.

The Vatican's stance has been greeted with dismay by opponents who say it runs against human rights conventions and is out of touch with the modern world.

It comes a day after US President George Bush - a Methodist Christian - spoke out against the idea of same-sex marriages as church leaders met in Minneapolis to debate the appointment of a gay bishop.

See BBC piece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3108349.stm

[tsuki]

95. Methodist, I think not.

[demo dutch]

106. Yes he did -- It had to do with anti-abortion and his comments

about the catholic vote.

Here is what Cardinal Ratzinger wrote in September 2004 :

"A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation with evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate's permissive stance on abortion or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share the candidate's stance in favor of abortion or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons."

[tsuki]

137. I was speaking of Bush. My Mother would be mortified if she

heard Bush call himself a Methodist.

[Rainscents]

39. I read in the proprocy... this new pope is short lived.

[piece sine]

41. starting at age 78

I'd hope so.....

[nashville_brook]

42. linky?

[Rainscents]

144. Link to Pope Prophecy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

[demo dutch]

84. Well that at least it the good news!

[Straight Shooter]

44. This is only my perception, but he has a "hard" face.

FWIW, if one believes that character is displayed in a face, I see no gentleness there.

If he treats pedophilia with a wink and a nudge and even a promotion, he's asking for trouble. This will follow him, and it will taint the Church.

[WildEyedLiberal]

49. He does

Whether or not you agreed with all JP II did, he had very kind eyes, and you could tell that he really did care about people.

[demo dutch]

85. True but this guy was JP's right man, he probably endorsed his

papacy, and maybe that's why he had his papers burned?

[DoYouEverWonder]

103. I think he looks just like

Darth Sideous. Look at their faces. There's definitely a resemblance.

[denverbill]

45. I hope he comes out and calls Evangelicals heathens.

I mean, after all, if they aren't Catholic, they aren't going to Heaven. Everybody knows that. I just love fundamentalist ideologues.

[WildEyedLiberal]

50. That would be one side benefit, I suppose

Ratzinger denouncing evangelical fundamentalism. Would be nice.

[earth mom]

71. A knee jerk reaction to *s fundies by the Catholic Church?

:shrug:

[grumpy old fart]

62. Yeah, but the evangelicals consider Catholics idolitors....

Sit back and grab the popcorn while the fundie nut cases go at it....

[Mugsy]

74. Name choice (Benedict XVI) bodes well.

The fact that Ratzinger chose the name of a notable reformer as his namesake might suggest that he plans on taking on many of the issues that JP2 left behind:

o Child sexual abuse by priests in the U.S.
o People using religion to justify support for war.
o Ditto for support of the death penalty.

...more?

[Generator]

48. From reading everything here

It sounds like Mel Gibson is one happy fella today.

[phasev]

53. against factory farming

According to this web article he has made a statement against factory farming:

http://www.facesofag.com/the_devils_work.shtml

[crispini]

58. Well, that's good.

“Certainly, a sort of industrial use of creatures, so that geese are fed in such a way as to produce as large a liver as possible, or hens live so packed together that they become just caricatures of birds, this degrading of living creatures to a commodity seems to me in fact to contradict the relationship of mutuality that comes across in the Bible."

(If you can trust the veracity of that article, whose author is clearly a fundie.)

[Kadie]

57. Ratzinger in Charge of Doctrine Crackdowns

Ratzinger in Charge of Doctrine Crackdowns
By MELISSA EDDY, Associated Press Writer

Tuesday, April 19, 2005

04-19) 11:35 PDT TRAUNSTEIN, Germany (AP) --


A man of deep personal faith who choked up as he delivered the homily at Pope John Paul II's funeral, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger also has alienated some Roman Catholics with his zeal in enforcing church orthodoxy.


And on those issues, the new Pope Benedict XVI is immovable.


Even as the cardinals who elected him prayed before the conclave, Ratzinger urged them to cling to church tradition and warned about the dangers of abandoning it.


"Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the church, is often labeled today as a fundamentalism," he said Monday. "Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and 'swept along by every wind of teaching,' looks like the only attitude acceptable to today's standards."


"We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one's own ego and one's own desires," he warned.

more...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2005/04/19/international/i095607D61.DTL

[Kadie]

61. Article from SF Chronicle

German Cardinal Ratzinger Elected: Pope Benedict XVI

Don Lattin, Chronicle Religion Writer

Tuesday, April 19, 2005

Rome -- German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Vatican's chief enforcer of doctrinal orthodoxy, was elected as the new Supreme Pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church today and took the name Pope Benedict XVI.

Ratzinger, 78, parted the red velvet curtains draped over the center balcony of St. Peter's Basilica barely less than an hour after his election by the College of Cardinals and was greeted by a roar of approval from more that 100,000 people packed into St. Peter's Square and spilling into the streets of Rome.

He waved to the crowd and gave his first blessing. Other cardinals clad in their crimson robes came out on other balconies to watch him.

"Dear brothers and sisters, after the great Pope John Paul II, the cardinals have elected me -— a simple, humble worker in the vineyard of the Lord," he said after being introduced by Chilean Cardinal Jorge Arturo Medina Estivez.

more...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/04/19/pope19.TMP

[MrsMatt]

60. Capital punishment & war

are less evil than abortion & euthanasia.

"Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia."

http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm

[Liberty Belle]

63. That sounds like he would oppose preemptive war.

[Stand and Fight]

140. He did and does.

Pope Benedict XVI opposed the Iraq War right along with Pope John Paul II when he was a cardinal.

[Liberty Belle]

151. Glad he's sane on at least 1 issue.

[Pithy Cherub]

64. Books: The Ratzinger Report, Messor,

Salt of the Earth, Ratzinger
His Holiness - Carl Bernstein & Marco Politi, Ratzingers views are covered on how the affected JPII

curls straight hair and straightens curled hair...

[HEyHEY]

66. He's a hell of a Monopoly player

I've heard

[BrklynLiberal]

72. Who Will Succeed the Pope ? Ratzinger the Panzerkardinal ?

John Paul II appointed him Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) – an organisation once known as the Inquisition – which has allowed him to stamp his theological conservatism on the Church over a period of more than 20 years.

His role and hard-line views saw opponents nickname him the "Panzerkardinal" but he also has many supporters and is the ultimate Vatican insider.

In the corridors of the Vatican his other nicknames include 'vice pope' and 'John Paul III'.

Cardinal Ratzinger has seen his mission as defending Catholic teaching following liberal moves after the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s. He has criticised the introduction of the non-Latin Mass as a 'tragic breach'. In the 1980s he described homosexuality as an 'intrinsic moral evil' and said rock music could be a 'vehicle of anti-religion'. To some he is a saviour to the Church in an increasingly secular world, to others he is an authoritarian who punishes liberal thought. Scotsman

Church's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

"Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger is Pope John Paul II's sidekick, his confidante and his enforcer. But when the fading Polish prelate meets his maker in the not-too-distant future, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger may also be next in line to become the world's top Roman Catholic, that should give us all pause, Catholics and non-Catholics alike. "Currently the suave, white-haired German Cardinal runs the Church's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. This august organization is occasionally referred to as the Holy Office but it is perhaps best known by an older name – the Inquisition. You history buffs will remember the Inquisition: those Catholic zealots who in the Middle Ages couldn't abide apostates and doubters of the One True Faith. They perfected the use of thumbscrews and the rack to force Jews, Muslims and other dissenters to adopt the Vatican's more ‘accurate' understanding of Christianity.... Kathy Mcmahon, BreakForNews.com


http://www.warcrimes.org.uk/captain/murder_inc/god.html

[Itsthetruth]

78. Named After A Dog????

"Bernard Law was named after St. Bernard"

Why would he be named after a breed of dog?

I don't see any resemblance at all.

[CitySky]

136. jowls, anyone? n/t

[hel]

76. He is most definitely against Turkey entering EU

on the grounds that Europe shall stay Christian and Turks do not have a place in there. Since final talks between Turkey and EU are due to December of this year, this is a big issue here, and he would probably be vocal about his opposition when the meetings are under way. That might create a crisis. This last part is pure speculation of course.

This is from Turkish press. I would provide the link, but what would be the point? :)

[info being]

79. There is a place like that. It is called Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI

[allemand]

81. He received honorary doctorates from the Opus Dei university in Pamplona

On January 31st 1998 Cardinal Ratzinger received honorary doctorates from the University of Navarra. The doctorates were conferred by Bishop Javier Echevarria, Prelate of Opus Dei and Chancellor of the University.
http://www.kathsurf.at/lehramt/lehramt/ratzing.html

[Plaid Adder]

83. Let's put it this way: don't expect married priests any time soon.

Everyone I know has been saying, "I sure hope it's not Ratzinger." But I guess it figures.

On we go,

The Plaid Adder

[demo dutch]

86. Let's put it this way.. when a bunch of old guys get together behind

closed doors, they make really bad choices!

[terrya]

91. Pope Benedict XVI on homosexuality:

I thought I would post this...from theadvocate.com. This is the new Pope's attitudes, stances, etc, on homosexuality and same-sex marriage.

New pope on homosexuality: "Intrinsic moral evil"

In July 1999, the National Catholic Reporter delineated what was already a staunchly antigay stance posited by Cardinal Jospeh Ratzinger of Germany, who was elected Pope Benedict XVI on Tuesday. At the time, Ratzinger had imposed a lifetime ban on pastoral work by pro-gay Salvatorian Fr. Robert Nugent and School Sister of Notre Dame Jeannine Gramick. The move was just the latest step in an effort by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to prevent evolution in church teaching toward acceptance of openly gay and lesbian people, the paper reported. Here is the Reporter's review of key moments:

May 1984: Ratzinger orders the imprimatur lifted from Sexual Morality by Fr. Philip S. Keane, published in 1977 by Paulist Press. Keane argues that homosexual conduct cannot be understood as "absolutely immoral."

September 1986: Archbishop Raymond Hunthausen in Seattle announces that he has transferred final authority in five areas, including the pastoral care of gays, to Auxiliary Bishop Donald Wuerl in accord with Vatican instructions. The action follows a written critique by Ratzinger, citing, among other flaws, Hunthausen's decision in 1983 to permit a Mass for Dignity, a Catholic gay group, in his cathedral.

October 1986: Ratzinger publishes a document titled "On the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons." The letter warns of "deceitful propaganda" from pro-homosexual groups. It instructs bishops not to accept groups that "seek to undermine the teaching of the church, which are ambiguous about it, or which neglect it entirely." The letter refers to homosexual orientation as an "intrinsic moral evil." In the wake of the letter, many Catholic bishops bar Dignity from using church facilities.

October 1986: Acting on instructions from Ratzinger, the head of the Jesuit order informs Jesuit Fr. John McNeill that he must either abandon pastoral ministry with gays or be expelled from the order. McNeill chooses not to give up his work. McNeill had been silenced by the Vatican in 1977 for his book The Church and the Homosexual, which argued that stable homosexual relationships should be judged by the same moral criteria as heterosexual relationships. The book was originally published with the permission of McNeill's Jesuit superiors.

November 1986: Ratzinger directs Bishop Matthew Clark of the Rochester, N.Y., diocese to remove the imprimatur from Parents Talk Love: The Catholic Family Handbook About Sexuality, written by a priest and a high school teacher. According to the priest, Ratzinger objects to the lack of a clear condemnation of homosexual conduct.

January 1987: After prolonged debate, the Catholic University of America fires Fr. Charles Curran, a moral theologian known for his dissent from official church teaching on sexual ethics. On homosexuality, Curran has written: "Homosexual acts in the context of a loving relationship that strives for permanency can in a certain sense be objectively morally acceptable."

December 1988: Dominican Fr. Matthew Fox is silenced by Ratzinger, citing his failure to condemn homosexuality, among a host of other issues. Fox is expelled from the Dominican order in 1992.

February 1992: Canadian theologian Fr. Andrew Guindon is notified that he is under investigation by the doctrinal congregation for his book The Sexual Creators. Ratzinger demands that he clarify his views on homosexuality, birth control, and premarital sex. Ratzinger's 13-page critique is published in L'Osservatore Romano, the official Vatican newspaper.

July 1992: Ratzinger sends a letter to the U.S. bishops supporting legal discrimination against gays in certain areas: adoption rights, the hiring of gays as teachers or coaches, and the prohibition of gays in the military. In such situations, Ratzinger writes, "It is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account."

November 1992: The new Catechism of the Catholic Church is published. Though the text acknowledges that homosexual persons "do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial" and forbids any disrespect or failure of compassion for gays, the Catechism repeats the position that the homosexual orientation is "intrinsically disordered."

December 1996: Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, secretary of the doctrinal congregation, publishes an article in L'Osservatore Romano asserting that certain church teachings must be considered infallible even in the absence of a formal declaration to that effect. The bans on homosexuality and contraception are among the teachings mentioned by Bertone.

February 1997: Following a warning to the Society of St. Paul from Ratzinger, the Vatican imposes a new leader on the order. The Paulines' flagship publication, Famiglia Cristiana, published an article in 1996 suggesting that parents should not force their moral views on a gay child. Bishop Antonio Buoncristiani is appointed the society's temporary leader and charged with ensuring that Pauline publications better reflect church teaching.

July 1998: The Committee on Marriage and Family of the U.S. bishops' conference reissues its letter to parents of homosexuals, "Always Our Children," after making several changes demanded by Ratzinger. They include referring to homosexuality as a "deep-seated" rather than "fundamental" dimension of personality; suggesting that homosexual acts by adolescents may not indicate a homosexual orientation; adding a footnote describing homosexuality as "objectively disordered"; and deleting a passage that encourages use of terms such as "homosexual, gay, and lesbian" from the pulpit in order to "give people permission" to discuss homosexuality.

September 1998: Clark removes Fr. James Callan from his position as pastor of Rochester's Corpus Christi Parish. Callan asserts that Clark is acting under pressure from Ratzinger. Among other things, Callan is criticized for blessing same-sex unions.

December 1998: Ratzinger, other curial officials, and a group of Australian bishops put out a document citing problems in the Australian church resulting from a "worldwide crisis of faith." Among other deviations, the document cites a moral view in which "heterosexuality and homosexuality come to be seen as simply two morally equivalent variations."

[crispini]

115. Ya know, am I right in saying

that all of this hatred of homosexuals comes down to Leviticus? In which case, are these folks also eating shellfish and wearing polyester-cotton blends?

I mean, if it comes from elsewhere, please enlighten me, I'd really like to know.

[CitySky]

141. Crispini, it's in the New Testament too.

not just Leviticus.

Note, however, that the NT also clearly condemns both greed and hatred. Something to think about, no?

[Hissyspit]

182. Paul rags on homosexuality, but he's a jerk. Jesus doesn't specifically...

address homosexulity. What he does address A LOT is tolerance.

[hue]

93. A letter from Cardinal Ratzinger regarding feminine values...

III. THE IMPORTANCE OF FEMININE VALUES IN THE LIFE OF SOCIETY

13. Among the fundamental values linked to women's actual lives is what has been called a “capacity for the other”. Although a certain type of feminist rhetoric makes demands “for ourselves”, women preserve the deep intuition of the goodness in their lives of those actions which elicit life, and contribute to the growth and protection of the other.

This intuition is linked to women's physical capacity to give life. Whether lived out or remaining potential, this capacity is a reality that structures the female personality in a profound way. It allows her to acquire maturity very quickly, and gives a sense of the seriousness of life and of its responsibilities. A sense and a respect for what is concrete develop in her, opposed to abstractions which are so often fatal for the existence of individuals and society. It is women, in the end, who even in very desperate situations, as attested by history past and present, possess a singular capacity to persevere in adversity, to keep life going even in extreme situations, to hold tenaciously to the future, and finally to remember with tears the value of every human life.

Although motherhood is a key element of women's identity, this does not mean that women should be considered from the sole perspective of physical procreation. In this area, there can be serious distortions, which extol biological fecundity in purely quantitative terms and are often accompanied by dangerous disrespect for women. The existence of the Christian vocation of virginity, radical with regard to both the Old Testament tradition and the demands made by many societies, is of the greatest importance in this regard.17 Virginity refutes any attempt to enclose women in mere biological destiny. Just as virginity receives from physical motherhood the insight that there is no Christian vocation except in the concrete gift of oneself to the other, so physical motherhood receives from virginity an insight into its fundamentally spiritual dimension: it is in not being content only to give physical life that the other truly comes into existence. This means that motherhood can find forms of full realization also where there is no physical procreation.18

In this perspective, one understands the irreplaceable role of women in all aspects of family and social life involving human relationships and caring for others. Here what John Paul II has termed the genius of women becomes very clear.19 It implies first of all that women be significantly and actively present in the family, “the primordial and, in a certain sense sovereign society”,20 since it is here above all that the features of a people take shape; it is here that its members acquire basic teachings. They learn to love inasmuch as they are unconditionally loved, they learn respect for others inasmuch as they are respected, they learn to know the face of God inasmuch as they receive a first revelation of it from a father and a mother full of attention in their regard. Whenever these fundamental experiences are lacking, society as a whole suffers violence and becomes in turn the progenitor of more violence. It means also that women should be present in the world of work and in the organization of society, and that women should have access to positions of responsibility which allow them to inspire the policies of nations and to promote innovative solutions to economic and social problems.
more...

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20040731_collaboration_en.html

[erinlough]

161. I'm so sick

of having any man make statements about what any woman should or should not be. That is why I can't be in any religion any more. If I was a man, by the way, I would feel exactly the same. Why do people need someone else to approve of their choices? I just don't get it.

[Kyregan]

94. From what I've read here

It sounds like we're going on one heck of a ride. Everyone got their seatbelts fastened?

[chicagiana]

98. All Pope Hail Claven I

Ratzinger is the arch conservative in the church. He leads a coalition that basically wants to undo Vatican II the same way the Republicans want to undo the New Deal.

This man will be VERY unpopular with the laity.

[PATRICK]

112. Oh no.

This is the chief dogmatist of the Church since Vatican II, raking all new ideas and theologians over the coals. He has made so many enemies I have to believe this short election was a cobbled quick coalition in the Roman Curia to seize the early balloting. The Gray Eminence taking over seems so retrograde as to be freaking unbelievable. Stalemates take a lot longer than this. This was a political move by those who have known each other and perhaps owe their hats to Ratzinger in some measure. The fact he is not Italian is a sneaky plus.

No one has dominated the power of Church teaching- at everyone else's expense- like this guy. His great strength was making the liberal views of Vatican Council solidly mainstream and then setting the power bearks on. I suppose it is not surprising that the handpicked cardinals of his boss so easily fell into line. It's like picking Supreme Court Justices.

Doctrinal purity and Curia rule. Bummer. This seems more like a payoff for loyalty than any consideration for the spiritual or pastoral.

Like I said about the rigged leadership of our times. it stinks and is shameful considering our needs, our education and our huge talent pool(out there buried somewhere under a vast pyramid of dismay).

Looking back at history with much worse Papal choices however one must count one's blessings for Providence has a slow hand. He is not monstrous right wing fanatic, but a Vatican II loyalist who believes like his predecessor in controlling the message and the direction. Lord knows how he will deal with the chortling RW Bushco minions even now getting plane tickets to Rome.

As for hints that this is some further attempt to whip Europe back into the pews like all other conservative disciplines it is self-doomed. Without the charisma one is left with exactly the kind of leadership that is guaranteed to drive Catholics to apathy or distraction, much worse than any bully pulpit. Is there no spiritual life left at the top that so many act so stolidily dumbly?

The choice of a papal name is interesting in that the last Benedict was chosen before WWI as a skilled diplomat to try and avert the coming conflagration. He failed of course.

I know the progressives here look at issue stands but this comes a far second to the total lack of vision at this time. At the top, where squatters pat themselves on the back while we die.

[LanternWaste]

110. Some interesting tidbits...

"As president of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Ratzinger devoted much of his long Vatican career to condemning the "dictatorship of relativism" - the modernist notion that there are no universal truths or universal standards of right and wrong - and to asserting the Catholic vision of truth and morality."

I agree. Flame on!

"It remains to be seen if he will continue John Paul's ecumenical outreach to other religions or if he will use the Throne of Peter as a pulpit to vigorously assert his belief that only the Roman Catholic Church is the true means of salvation."

Hard to tell. And hard to tell what the effect will be one way or the other.

"His choice of the word "dictatorship" is revealing: As a young man growing up in Nazi Germany, he was profoundly repelled by Hitler's ruinous corruptions of truth and morality. In his autobiography, Ratzinger described the Nazis as "fanatical ideologues who tyrannized us without respite." He came to view the Catholic Church as the institution uniquely equipped to counter what he felt were forces that mock or distort traditional morals. "



"He also cracked down on liberation theology, the confrontational social-justice campaign popular among Latin American clergy in the 1970s. Although its links to Marxism were tenuous, both Ratzinger and John Paul were repelled by liberationism's talk of class warfare. Priests and bishops were ordered to stay out of politics - even as John Paul himself was helping topple Polish communism."

Well, that's what everyone here wants... zero tolerance for professions of faith from politicians.

From the Fort Worth Star Telegram http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/special_packages/pope/11433617.htm

I think that Pope John Paul's legacy will eventually be that of co-architect (along with Lech Walesa) in ending Stalin-style communism in Europe.



As for me, I'm going to wait and watch before making any opinions of what directions he may or may not take the church in (so, I guess that makes me a sheep or a lemming according to those who have already passed judgment on him and know everything they believe they need to know... oh well). As a side note, most of my Catholic friends (I live in Cancun half the year) are warily optimistic about the choice.

[The Straight Story]

111. He is supposed to be the next to last pope

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=malachi+pope+prophecies

[Obviousman]

113. He wants to ban

women from reading, being eucharistic ministers, bascially having any role in the church. It's going to be devastating

[Mari333]

116. Women will leave the church in droves

just like I did a long time ago. And they wont come back.
Tough shite for the parishes.

[SharonAnn]

170. Me too. And I've encouraged others to wake up to how they're

being used by the Church but also being abused by the Church.

Women are most of the congregation, do most of the unpaid work in the parishes I've been part of, are asked to contribute their financial support, etc. And the payback? They get treated like slaves who are told to "shut up and do what they're told".

[Anakin Skywalker]

117. Why Do They Elect Old Men?

This guy's like, older than Yoda, man!

[VHamrick]

118. The Rapture has begun

He's the anti-pope.

Do no harm, take no shit.

[janx]

121. Nickname: ROTTWEILER

My S/O just told me this and said he heard it on the news. I could not stop laughing.

[hue]

122. He's pretty much been Pope for the years JPII was sick n/t

[Junkdrawer]

124. Just said to a buddy today "Actually, he's just finishing out his term..."

The simply made the acting Pope the Pope - not surprising since JPII and Ratzy picked 2/3rds of the Cardinals.

[Catchawave]

123. As a lapsed Catholic for too many years,

...and keeping an eye open to the new Pope, I was disappointed they didn't lean more liberal :(

I had a tubal ligation after my third child in 1980 and was excumincated then. Oh well.

[erinlough]

164. probably the most freeing thing the church ever did for you!

Kicking me out of the Lutheran religion was the best thing they ever did for me.

[AwareOne]

126. Former Nazi Elected Pope

He already attacked liberalism in his first speech and lumped it in with atheism and Marxism.

[cosmokramer]

128. Seig Heil! He was a member of Hitler Youth...do we really

need to know any more than that?

[Roland99]

155. Ah...but he was compelled to join and deserted the army in '44

[markus]

159. And took an honorary degree from Opus Dei

What, did he have a change of heart about deserting Facsicm?

[Roland99]

168. Probably "right-sizing" his belief system

[cosmokramer]

220. Don't care how 'compelled' he was to join. He joined. 'Nuf said.

[Vanje]

132. He sleeps by day...

...in a 6' x 2' wooden box, along with a bit of soil from his hometown.
Has a lot of trouble with garlic.
Avoids mirrors.

[femme.democratique]

133. He liked to excommunicate people

Personally charming, quick-witted and fluent in four languages, the new Pope is a convincing orator. Jesuit Father Thomas Reese calls him "a delightful dialogue partner", but adds that most of the Pope's fellow clergy would be too worried about the prospect of excommunication to enjoy talking to him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/profile/

[sleipnir]

138. He's not directly related to Cliff from Cheers (actor, John Ratzenberger)

n/t

[byronius]

142. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire told me everything

I need to know about papal succession. Torture, sodomy, beheadings, the murder of children. One pope's head tied to the tail of a dog and sent off through the streets of Rome. And why? The Greeks differed with the Latins over the big Holy Trinity controversy. From God through Jesus, or from God and Jesus? What? What's that you say? I'll kill you!!

Hmmm. Put it all through the ethics grater -- does the religion eschew the massing of wealth? Does it intend to divide or unite all life on earth, or assign hierarchichal social values? Do they suggest that the officers of the religion are favored of god or made wiser by secret knowledge of the mysteries? Urkk. Page 966, Edward Gibbons, 1787. Pbhttttt. Not. Time for Quantum Physics. And maybe Veganism.

Now, Abbie Hoffman. There's a religion for ya. People say mean things about him, but I shook his hand, and I say he's the excellent.

[Stand and Fight]

143. He Opposes Preemptive War (e.g. Iraq)

http://www.cjd.org/paper/jp2war.html

While the Iraqi War II turned out to be "short," violations of just war principles abounded. Bombing included such targets as an open market and a hotel where the world's journalists were staying. While most television and newspaper reports in the United States minimized coverage of deaths and injuries to the Iraqi people, reports of many civilian casualties did come out. CBS news reported on April 7 stories of civilians pouring into hospitals in Baghdad, threatening to over-whelm medical staff, and the damage inflicted by bombs which targeted homes: "The old, the young, men and women alike, no one has been spared. One hospital reported receiving 175 wounded by midday. A crater is all that remains of four families and their homes-obliterated by a massive bomb that dropped from the sky without warning in the middle afternoon." The Canadian press carried a Red Cross report of "incredible" levels of civilian casualties from Nasiriyah, of a truckload of dismembered women and children arriving at the hospital in Hilla from that village, their deaths the result of "bombs, projectiles."

As talk escalated about a U. S. attack on Iraq, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Prefect of the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, began stating unequivocally that "The concept of a 'preventive war' does not appear in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. His comments had been published as early as September 2002 and were repeated several times as war seemed imminent.

Cardinal Ratzinger recommended that the three religions who share a heritage from Abraham return to the Ten Commandments to counteract the violence of terrorism and war: "The Decalogue is not the private property of Christians or Jews. It is a lofty expression of moral reason that, as such, is also found in the wisdom of other cultures. To refer again to the Decalogue might be essential precisely to restore reason."

[roguevalley]

146. from www.americablog.org

Ratzinger accused of cover-up in effort to shelter pedophile priests
by John in DC - 4/19/2005 07:51:00 PM

From ABC News:

" pushed my hand onto his penis. And I didn't know anything about masturbation," Juan Vaca, who was first abused when he was 11 years old, told ABCNEWS. "And he says, 'You don't know how to do it. Let me show you.' And he gets my penis himself and starts to masturbate me. I was in shock."

Now read the rest of the story:

Then, four years ago, some of the men tried a last ditch effort, taking the unusual step of filing a lawsuit in the Vatican's secretive court, seeking Macial's excommunication.

Once again they laid out their evidence, but it was another futile effort — an effort the men say was blocked by one of the most powerful cardinals in the Vatican.

The accusers say Vatican-based Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who heads the Vatican office to safeguard the faith and the morals of the church, quietly made the lawsuit go away and shelved it. There was no investigation and the accusers weren't asked a single question or asked for a statement.

He was appointed by the pope to investigate the entire sex abuse scandal in the church in recent days. But when approached by ABCNEWS in Rome last week with questions of allegations against Maciel, Ratzinger became visibly upset and actually slapped this reporter's hand.

"Come to me when the moment is given," Ratzinger told ABCNEWS, "not yet."

"Cardinal Ratzinger is sheltering Maciel, protecting him," said Berry, who expressed concerns that no response was being given to the allegations against the man charged with sex abuse. "These men knelt and kissed the ring of Cardinal Ratzinger when they filed the case in Rome. And a year-and-a-half later, he takes those accusations and aborts them, just stuffs them."

The cardinals knew all of this, yet they still chose Ratzinger. They had a choice. They chose evil. Unfortunately, this is what the leadership of the Catholic Church has come to, and become. In a word, hubris. In two words, Tom DeLay.

[Sapphire Blue]

148. The Vatican’s enforcer

From the National Catholic Reporter

The Vatican’s enforcer

An excerpt...


Others believe Ratzinger will be remembered as the architect of John Paul’s internal Kulturkampf, intimidating and punishing thinkers in order to restore a model of church -- clerical, dogmatic and rule-bound -- many hoped had been swept away by the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 assembly of bishops that sought to renew Catholicism and open it to the world. Ratzinger’s campaign bears comparison to the anti-modernist drive in the early part of the century or Pius XII’s crackdown in the 1950s, critics say, but is even more disheartening because it followed a moment of such optimism and new life.

At the most basic level, many Catholics cannot escape the sense that Ratzinger’s exercise of ecclesial power is not what Jesus had in mind.

Beneath the competing analyses and divergent views, this much is certain: Ratzinger has drawn lines in the sand and wielded the tools of his office on many who cross those lines. Whether necessary prophylaxis or a naked power play, his efforts to curb dissent have left the church more bruised, more divided, than at any point since the close of Vatican II.

<snip>

His record includes:

1) Theologians disciplined, such as Fr. Charles Curran, an American moral theologian who advocates a right to public dissent from official church teaching; Fr. Matthew Fox, an American known for his work on creation spirituality; Sr. Ivone Gebara, a Brazilian whose thinking blends liberation theology with environmental concerns; and Fr. Tissa Balasuriya, a Sri Lankan interested in how Christianity can be expressed through Eastern concepts;
2) Movements blocked, such as liberation theology and, more recently, religious pluralism (the drive to affirm other religions on their own terms);
3) Progressive bishops hobbled, including Archbishop Raymond Hunthausen of Seattle, reproached by Rome for his tolerance of ministry to homosexuals and his involvement in progressive political causes, and Bishop Dom Pedro Casaldáliga of Sao Félix, Brazil, criticized for his political engagement beyond the borders of his own diocese;
4) Episcopal conferences brought to heel on issues such as inclusive language and their own teaching authority;
5) The borders of infallibility expanded, to include such disparate points as the ban on women’s ordination and the invalidity of ordinations in the Anglican church.

http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/041699/04169...



Having witnessed & lived through the persecution of Archbishop Hunthausen (my Archbishop at the time - when I still considered myself a Catholic) I look to this new Papacy with absolute dread. This is a sad & frightening day.

I am still weeping.

[MelissaB]

149. New pope intervened against Kerry in US 2004 election campaign

(Sorry if I missed this in such a long thread. :) )

New pope intervened against Kerry in US 2004 election campaign

German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Vatican theologian who was elected Pope Benedict XVI, intervened in the 2004 US election campaign ordering bishops to deny communion to abortion rights supporters including presidential candidate John Kerry.

In a June 2004 letter to US bishops enunciating principles of worthiness for communion recipients, Ratzinger specified that strong and open supporters of abortion should be denied the Catholic sacrament, for being guilty of a "grave sin."

He specifically mentioned "the case of a Catholic politician consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws," a reference widely understood to mean Democratic candidate Kerry, a Catholic who has defended abortion rights.

The letter said a priest confronted with such a person seeking communion "must refuse to distribute it."

A footnote to the letter also condemned any Catholic who votes specifically for a candidate because the candidate holds a pro-abortion position. Such a voter "would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for holy communion," the letter read.

More: http://beta.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050419/pl_afp/vaticanpopeus&printer=1

Can I say lots of ugly words now?

[crispini]

165. Wow, you know, I hate to say it,

but I really think Kerry (and probably any other liberal Catholic) should just give it up for 2008. Fat chance.

[bunkerbuster1]

210. Put another way, this ratf*cker got W elected.

He gave the Church the cover it wanted to deny communion to anti-criminalization pols AND VOTERS. This was very, very highly publicized at the time and I'm sure a ton of voters wound up sitting out the vote, who would've otherwise supported Kerry.

[IndianaGreen]

150. I am concerned about his intervention in Election 2004

Ratzinger was reported to have written a letter to American Catholic bishops instructing them to deny communion to Catholic politicians that did not toe the Vatican line on social issues. I believe that Kerry was the intended target of Ratzinger's letter.

On edit:

This link is posted in LBN:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1521&e=3&u=/afp/20050419/pl_afp/vaticanpopeus

[markus]

160. Too the hell late-the Catholic Church is a wing of the GOP

They jumped all over the gay marriage movement, and knew what they are doing.

So, we have the most conservative possible candidate, a friend if not a member of Opus Dei, an uncompromising medievalist.

So, why is it we're not allowed to actively dislike the institution of the Catholic Church around here?

Hate the sin, love the sinner.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

192. oh, we are allowed. this is still America, isn't it? Well, maybe it isn't

[demo dutch]

163. Of course then the church has always tried to stick their nose into

politics

[arikara]

153. One of the Catholic priests here in Victoria BC

said in a local tv interview that he was in the "anyone but Ratzinger camp". He was extremely dismayed by the selection and called him the dark prince.

[brainshrub]

156. He is Catholic.

[confludemocrat]

158. French and French Swiss clerics: tepid, academic response

I was watching the Swiss Romande and France 2 news, no enthusiasm whatsoever,about this German pope coming from French and French Swiss bishops and cardinals or from protestant clerics and rabbis in these countries (is it any wonder?), but regrets about not getting a southern hemisphere or nonEuropean pope and a let's wait and see attitude expressed. Even the popes brother, also a cleric and interviewed in Ratzingers birthplace in Germany, only could say that he was different in several ways from John Paul II: but mainly he lacked John Paul II's charisma!

Disappointment from where half the churchs members live: South and Central America.

This is the last gasp of the hidebound Church, the darkness before the dawn.

many are waiting for an opening to marriage by priests, females clerics, birth control. It will come, just not until this guy croaks.

[demo dutch]

162. RCC is pretty much absolete, but it bothers me that he interfered into

American politics and pretty much instructed his cardinals to sway the Catholic vote in Bush's favor, because of anti-abortion issues.

[Dukkha]

166. a dark shroud has fallen

the church has reverted deeper into the dark ages

[kenny blankenship]

185. also apparently

into a galaxy far, far away.

[TriMetFan]

174. As a Catholic

I hope the Good Lord takes the new Pope home as fast as he can. I'm also sorry if this hurts any-ones feels. This guy is just way out there. He makes Pope John Paul II look like a liberal.

To other Catholics here, if the new Pope lives longer then 2 years do you see more Catholics leaving the Church?

[tucoramirez2005]

179. He is a true Catholic

not a Protestant in Catholic's clothing.

[aquart]

184. Good luck on recruiting priests and nuns.

[LittleClarkie]

186. Here's the bio our church bulletin website is offering

"Pope Benedict XVI
Born: April 16,1927
Ordained a priest: June 29,1951
Ordained Archbishop of Munich and Freising: May 28, 1977
Elected to the Office of Universal Shephard: April 19, 2005

Pope Benedict XVI, was born Joseph Ratzinger on April 16, 1927 in Marktl am Inn, Germany. His father, a police officer, came from a traditional family of farmers from Lower Bavaria. Pope Benedict spent his adolescent years in Traunstein. In 1943, at the age of 16 he was, along with the rest of his class, drafted into the Flak, or anti-aircraft corps, responsible for the guarding of a BMW plant outside Munich. He was sent to basic infantry training and was posted to Hungary, where he worked setting up anti-tank defenses until he fled the Nazi army in April, 1944 (an offence punishable by death). In 1945 he was briefly held in an Allied POW camp. By June he was released, and he and his brother entered a Catholic seminary.

Pope Benedict was ordained a priest in 1951. In 1953 he obtained a doctorate in theology with a thesis entitled: "The People and House of God in St. Augustine's Doctrine of the Church." Four years later, he qualified as a university teacher. He then taught dogma and fundamental theology at several German Universities from 1959 to 1969 when he became professor of dogmatic theology and of the history of dogma and Vice President of the University of Regensburg.

In 1962, Pope Benedict was already well known when, at the age of 35, he became a peritus, or theological expert, for the Archbishop of Cologne, Cardinal Joseph Frings at the Second Vatican Council. In March, 1977, Paul VI named him Archbishop of Munich and Freising. He was ordained a bishop on May 28, 1977; the first diocesan priest after 80 years to take over the pastoral ministry of this large Bavarian diocese.

In 1972, he founded the theological journal, Communio, with Hans Urs von Balthasar, Henri de Lubac, and others. Communio, now published in seventeen editions (German, English, Spanish, and many others), has become one of the most important journals of Catholic thought.

Pope Benedict was made a cardinal by Paul VI in the consistory of June 27, 1977. He was one of only 14 remaining cardinals appointed by Paul VI, and one of only three of those under the age of 80 and so eligible to vote in the conclave of April 2005.

In November, 1981, he was nominated by John Paul II to become Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. He also served as President of the Pontifical Biblical Commission and of the Pontifical International Theological Commission. He became Dean of the College of Cardinals on November 30, 2002.

His numerous publications include works such as: Introduction to Christianity (1968), Called to Communion: Understanding the Church Today (1996), The Spirit of the Liturgy (2000), God is Near Us: The Eucharist, the Heart of Life (2003). He speaks ten languages and is said to be an accomplished pianist with a preference for Beethoven.

On April 19, 2005, after one of the briefest Papal Conclaves in modern history, Joseph Ratzinger became the 265th pope of the Roman Catholic Church, taking the name Benedict XVI. "

[mogster]

188. Here's a picture from his years in the Hitler Youth ++

I don't know what to think about this guy. Wait and see, I guess.


From Freising, 1955


From 1982 - just called to the Vatican from his position as archbishop of Munich


In 1959 he was a professor in Freising


The front page of Vatican newspaper

Here's a pictorial. It's in Gnoofy Gnorwegian, but pretty much self explanatory ;-)

http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2005/04/19/429300.html

[Is It Fascism Yet]

189. He is an egocentric former Nazi gunner who has spent more recent years

sanctimoniously defending pedophiles, actively trying to play politics by depriving Catholic Democrats from receiving Catholic sacraments, and telling women that "feminist attitudes" are destructive and a "woman's vocation is childrearing". The first thing he did was have one of his flunkies ask Condi, in her official capacity as Secretary of ShrubBrothersBananaRepublic, to please excuse some lawsuits from those pesky sexually abused little alter boys in America.

[zwielicht]

191. He contributed to an austrian neo-Nazi book in 1998 ("Freedom and Truth")

His essay "Freedom and Truth" (available online at http://www.ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/TRUEFREE.htm) appeared in the book "1848 - Erbe und Auftrag" ("1848 - Heritage and Mission"), published by AULA, a neo-Nazi publishing house which has become too far-right even for Haiders FPÖ with publications openly denying the holocaust.

Quote: "An understanding of freedom which tends to regard liberation exclusively as the ever more sweeping annulment of norms and the constant extension of individual liberties to the point of complete emancipation from all order is false. Freedom, if it is not to lead to deceit and self-destruction, must orient itself by the truth, that is, by what we really are, and must correspond to our being. Since man's essence consists in being-from, being-with and being-for, human freedom can exist only in the ordered communion of freedoms. Right is therefore not antithetical to freedom, but is a condition, indeed, a constitutive element of freedom itself. Liberation does not lie in the gradual abolition of right and of norms, but in the purification of ourselves and of the norms so that they will make possible the humane coexistence of freedoms."

The book was edited by Otto Scrinzi and Jürgen Schwab. Scrinzi, a former SA Stormtrooper and member of the Nazi Party, is now a leading FPÖ member, and the German Schwab was cited in a 1997 report of the internal security service in the German state of Nordrhein-Westfalen. In the book Schwab attacks the 'present-day democratic dictatorship of public opinion' and the 'manifold democratic control of communications'; he also denounces the Austrian laws banning national socialism - particularly the outlawing of propaganda for a Greater Germany or the unification of Austria and Germany - as well as organizations that promote such 'restrictions', like the German and Austrian security services and anti-fascist institutes like the DÖW. (http://www.axt.org.uk/antisem/archive/archive%203/austria/austria.htm#Publications)

Sorry, I couldn't find an english article on this (exept for the axt.org.uk text, which wrongly cites Ratziner as an austrian). There's a german one here: http://derstandard.at/?id=2020915

[allemand]

196. To be fair, the essay originally appeared in a purely theological context.

Freiheit und Wahrheit, Internationale Zeitschrift Communio 24(1995) 527-542
http://teol.de/nopublic/bi-ratzi.htm

But it would be really interesting to know which of Ratzinger's Opus Dei friends served as liaison between him and the extreme right wing publishers. Opus Dei certainly has strong links to fascism.

It would be also very interesting to analyze if there is a elective affinity between Ratzinger's theological thinking and right wing ideology (in the way Bourdieu analyzed the link between Heidegger's philosophy and fascism), but in order to be able to do so one has to be well versed in the history of catholic theology.

[muchacho]

193. New pope intervened against Kerry in US 2004 election campaign

well, there's this...

German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the
Vatican theologian who was elected Pope Benedict XVI, intervened in the 2004 US election campaign ordering bishops to deny communion to abortion rights supporters including presidential candidate
John Kerry.

In a June 2004 letter to US bishops enunciating principles of worthiness for communion recipients, Ratzinger specified that strong and open supporters of abortion should be denied the Catholic sacrament, for being guilty of a "grave sin."

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050419/pl_afp/vaticanpopeus

those with a my.yahoo account vote it a 5.

[Princess Turandot]

194. Jews on Ratzinger's election..

if you want to run with your Nazi theories, I think their views are rather important:

http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/nfo/article.cfm?id=3908

"Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:

We welcome the new Papacy of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. From the Jewish perspective, the fact that he comes from Europe is important, because he brings with him an understanding and memory of the painful history of Europe and of the 20th Century experience of European Jewry.

Having lived through World War II, Cardinal Ratzinger has great sensitivity to Jewish history and the Holocaust. He has shown this sensitivity countless times, in meetings with Jewish leadership and in important statements condemning anti-Semitism and expressing profound sorrow for the Holocaust. We remember with great appreciation his Christmas reflections on December 29, 2000, when he memorably expressed remorse for the anti-Jewish attitudes that persisted through history, leading to "deplorable acts of violence" and the Holocaust. Cardinal Ratzinger said: "Even if the most recent, loathsome experience of the Shoah (Holocaust) was perpetrated in the name of an anti-Christian ideology, which tried to strike the Christian faith at its Abrahamic roots in the people of Israel, it cannot be denied that a certain insufficient resistance to this atrocity on the part of Christians can be explained by an inherited anti-Judaism present in the hearts of not a few Christians."

Though as a teenager he was a member of the Hitler Youth, all his life Cardinal Ratzinger has atoned for the fact. In our years of working on improving Catholic-Jewish ties, ADL has had opportunities to work with Cardinal Ratzinger. We look forward to continuing that relationship. "

http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/nfo/article.cfm?id=3907

New York – The American Jewish Committee today congratulated the Catholic Church and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger on his election as the 265th pope, Benedict XVI.

"Cardinal Ratzinger already has shown a profound commitment to advancing Catholic-Jewish relations, and we look forward to continuing our close working relationship with the church," said Rabbi David Rosen, AJC's international director of interreligious affairs.

"We hope the church will continue to show the same sensitivity to Jewish concerns and needs as did the late John Paul II."

AJC is the leading American Jewish interlocutor with the Catholic Church in the U.S. and at the Vatican. "


http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/nfo/article.cfm?id=3906

The Simon Wiesenthal Center congratulates Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger on becoming Pope Benedict XVI.

"I hope that he will continue to build on the legacy of Pope John Paul II’s special relationship with the Jewish people," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder and dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. "The new Pope, like his predecessor, was deeply influenced by the events of WWII," he said. "As a child, Pope Benedict XVI grew up in an anti-Nazi family. Nonetheless he was forced to join the Hitler Youth movement during the Second World War."

Rabbi Hier continued, "Pope John Paul II dramatically changed the Catholic Church forever in reaching out to other religions, particularly Judaism. I am confident that the Vatican under the leadership of Pope Benedict XVI will continue to build on those remarkable achievements and organizations like the Simon Wiesenthal Center look forward to being partners in that process."

I think the 'Nazi' tales are non-starters if the major Jewish organizations are not worried about it.

[aaronnyc]

195. Clearly, they are a bunch of Nazi sympathizers

:sarcasm:

[NNN0LHI]

198. There were plenty of Jewish Nazi sympathizers/collaborators during WWII

http://www.uccla.ca/ucclabook/articles/06.htm

Revisionists ignore ugly reality of Jewish collaborators in Second World War

As a Ukrainian political prisoner who survived several Nazi concentration camps, including Majdanek, it is incumbent upon me to place on record certain facts which, however unpalatable they may be for some of your readers, must be recalled. The ignorance of men like Sol Littman, or of his apologists, Messrs. Lucien Karchmar and Gerald Tulchinsky, must not be allowed to stand unchallenged. Many of my friends -Ukrainians, Poles, Jews - perished in the Nazi death camps. I cannot now allow revisionists, of whatever political bent, to selectively recall only those bits of Second World War history that suit their interests and ignore those realities which I personally experienced.


In November, 1943, some 27,000 Jews were exterminated in Section 5 of the Majdanek concentration camp. I was interned in Section 4, from where it was possible to catch glimpses of what was happening inside the adjacent section. The ugly truth is that most of the victims were handed over to their executioners by other Jews.

The latter were occupied in the running of the internal administration of this camp, and I read of many others. While I do not dispute, in any sense, the suffering endured by the Jews during the Second World War - I shared in the degradations, the misery, and the humiliations of concentration camp existence - I find it hypocritical that, four decades after the war, some individuals and organizations are suddenly busy searching for Nazi war criminals among East European communities.

It seems to me that it is incumbent upon them to first proceed against the war criminals in their own midst. It might be objected that justice was done in this matter soon after the war. Yet, as Dr. Petro Mirchuk, another Ukrainian political prisoner, held in the infamous Auschwitz camp (and tattooed #49734), has pointed out, many former Jewish collaborators escaped serious punishment after the war, and continue to live, unharmed, in Israel.

[Zynx]

200. Well, there are gays who support the Republicans

*huge sigh*

[Junkdrawer]

201. Now, how did this nice man ever get the handle of "God's Rottweiler"...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1521&e=3&u=/afp/20050419/pl_afp/vaticanpopeus

[Lerkfish]

205. The more I find out, the less happy I am...

Even if we omit the hitler youth thing, you STILL have things about ratzinger I find alarming.

PEDOPHILE PRIEST SCANDAL: he helped to coverup the scandal and blamed the media for uncovering accounts of abuse. He promoted the cardinal most implicated in hiding abusive priests from scrutiny. This, in and of itself, is enough to make us concerned.

INTENTIONALLY INFLUENCING US ELECTIONS: by his directive to withold communion, and mentioning Kerry by descripition, even using the term "candidate", He used the church to extort votes in a certain direction from the rank and file

OPUS DEI: there are others more knowledgable about this group than I, but what I've heard so far seems to indicate an alarming philosophy concerning the power of the church over politics.

there are other items, like his backwards stance on women and gays.

The only somewhat positive thing I've found thus far is his opposition to the Iraq War, but pretty much everyone except neocons has reservations about the war, so not sure that indicates a proper attitude so much as the ability to perceive the obvious.

So...I"m not a catholic, but I recognize the power wielded politically by that office, therefore I am concerned.

I am also VERY concerned about a closed meeting Prez Bush had with the voting cardinals while he was there for JPII's funeral. Why was that meeting closed? What was discussed? Why did (apparently) the candidate most in line with neocon objectives get selected? Was there a connection or an attempt to influence? I don't know. but I am concerned about it.
I suppose, if in the near future, we see a lot of visitations and meetings between the Pope and Bush, or rhetoric that appears to be coordinated ("culture of life" that sort of thing), then I am going to be thinking my concern had validity.

I'll keep checking to see if this pope makes a historic pilgrimage to Washington.

[headin_south]

212. well, new pope. same as the old pope

a german shephard for the catholic flock! :D

from all the stuff i've read, we're going to see a pope who reaches out to other religions but will toe the dogma line, no women priests, no gay marriage (probably no gay ANYTHING beyond the usual "hate the sin, love the sinner"), no married priests, no birth control, no abortion, maintaining the status quo.

on the plus side, he's not TOTALLY dogmatic...wasn't he responsible for the 2nd vatican council? and he was also the guy responsible for reaming the american priests for the whole sex scandal thing...no pun intended...

[chomskysright]

213. pope couldn't 'pull trigger' as young Nazi due to 'infected finger':

ustin Sparks, Munich, John Follain and Christopher Morgan, Rome

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1572667,00.html

THE wartime past of a leading German contender to succeed John Paul II may return to haunt him as cardinals begin voting in the Sistine Chapel tomorrow to choose a new leader for 1 billion Catholics. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, whose strong defence of Catholic orthodoxy has earned him a variety of sobriquets — including “the enforcer”, “the panzer cardinal” and “God’s rottweiler” — is expected to poll around 40 votes in the first ballot as conservatives rally behind him.
Although far short of the requisite two-thirds majority of the 115 votes, this would almost certainly give Ratzinger, 78 yesterday, an early lead in the voting. Liberals have yet to settle on a rival candidate who could come close to his tally. Unknown to many members of the church, however, Ratzinger’s past includes brief membership of the Hitler Youth movement and wartime service with a German army anti- aircraft unit.
The son of a rural Bavarian police officer, Ratzinger was six when Hitler came to power in 1933. His father, also called Joseph, was an anti-Nazi whose attempts to rein in Hitler’s Brown Shirts forced the family to move home several times. In 1937 Ratzinger’s father retired and the family moved to Traunstein, a staunchly Catholic town in Bavaria close to the Führer’s mountain retreat in Berchtesgaden. He joined the Hitler Youth aged 14, shortly after membership was made compulsory in 1941. He quickly won a dispensation on account of his training at a seminary. “Ratzinger was only briefly a member of the Hitler Youth and not an enthusiastic one,” concluded John Allen, his biographer.

Two years later Ratzinger was enrolled in an anti-aircraft unit that protected a BMW factory making aircraft engines. The workforce included slaves from Dachau concentration camp. Ratzinger has insisted he never took part in combat or fired a shot — adding that his gun was not even loaded — because of a badly infected finger. He was sent to Hungary, where he set up tank traps and saw Jews being herded to death camps. He deserted in April 1944 and spent a few weeks in a prisoner of war camp. He has since said that although he was opposed to the Nazi regime, any open resistance would have been futile — comments echoed this weekend by his elder brother Georg, a retired priest ordained along with the cardinal in 1951. “Resistance was truly impossible,” Georg Ratzinger said.

“Before we were conscripted, one of our teachers said we should fight and become heroic Nazis and another told us not to worry as only one soldier in a thousand was killed. But neither of us ever used a rifle against the enemy.” Some locals in Traunstein, like Elizabeth Lohner, 84, whose brother-in-law was sent to Dachau as a conscientious objector, dismiss such suggestions. “It was possible to resist, and those people set an example for others,” she said. “The Ratzingers were young and had made a different choice.”

[daveskilt]

226. I know many people who resisted - not impossible

this coward. I lived in good old duetschland and knew former resistance members and also former hitler youth members who had actively resisted the nazis even while serving in the hitler youth. They sure didnt herd jewish death slaves and give excuses and justifications for NOT shooting human beings. Infected finger. what the hell is that about? try I didnt shoot or load my weapon because I had some tiny shred of moral decency even while wearing a swastika and herding jews. not I didnt shoot because my finger was sore - was that why he didnt lift it to help?
as for the being only 14 comment was that from 1939-1944 that he was 14 or did he age in that time period at all?

[michael_1166]

216. Could you please all stay fair here?

I'm from Germany and don't like that choice of pope too.

But... could you all please resist from warming up calling him an old Nazi guy? It is just not fair using all the old stereotypes and prejudices against Germans here again. We are not Nazis anymore. 60 years have passed since that time.

Ratzinger, as being ultra-conservative, will be a feast for anyone wanting to frame him as a Nazi. Although he isn't. You might not like him, I do not like him. But relishing and revelling in Nazi analogies is not doing any good. Please do not forget 86 % of us Germans would have voted for Kerry if given the possibility. We despise Bush.

This pope IS a bad choice for Germany's reputation. It's completely different to what John Paul II did for the people of Poland. But we Germans are not responsible that Ratzinger got the job. Personally I'd have preferred a black pope.

Please stay fair.
Thank you.

Michael

[cosmokramer]

221. I do hope you read this....

With all do respect, he WAS part of the Hitler Youth which does make him a 'Nazi guy'. I agree, however, that taking the 'Nazi' beyond what is factually true may be a little much.

Please do not take remarks here about Ratzinger as an afront to all Germans...no one here believes that the term 'Nazi' and 'German' are one and the same.

On another note, it is true that 60 years have passed...but I still feel the wounds that will never go away. My grandfather fought in WWII in Belgium and Germany with the Airborne Parachute Infantry Regiment--he was a Jew, the son of immigrant German Jews. His grandfather, who remained in Germany, died at Ludwigslust of starvation, a prisoner of the Nazis.

For me, being a fairly non-observant Jew with two children who are being raised as Catholic (like their father), I have a very, very real problem reconciling that the newly annointed Pope was, in fact, a member of Hitler Youth. I also have a big issue with his stance on homosexuality, women, and nearly everything else. But because the issue of the holocaust touches me on a very deep level, I strongly believe that the leader of the largest christian church in the world should not have the background that Ratzinger has with his involvement in the HY--regardless of whether it was voluntary or involuntary.

So please, take no offense. I don't believe that anyone here is wishing to divide our country from your county. I love Germany and have visited several times--and the people are wonderful there, as is the country itself. And as a citizen of the United States, I greatly appreciate the support of your country in my opposition to George Bush.

And finally, I entirely agree with you on this issue: The new pope definitely should have been African.

Peace to you and long happiness.

[UdoKier]

225. He thinks that 1 in 100 priests molesting kids is a good track record.

http://www.cathnews.com/news/212/27.php

[daveskilt]

227. I think we are forgetting - many priest's didnt molest ANY kids

lets not get all distracted by the ones who did. I mean just because a few white guys are christian militia terrorists and a few suadi's flew planes into buildings there are still many more who only fantisized about it and some who didnt at all.
maybe all cathedrals could get a big mcdonalds type sign that says 375,234 molested so far!

[UdoKier]

228. That is *SO* beside the point. This is NOT about bashing priests.

Of course most priests are innocent, but the fact remains that 1% of them are RUINING the lives of children by molesting them. That is an extremely HIGH proportion, compared to molestation in the population at large, especially when considering that these are supposed to be trusted community leaders.


The church needs to admit that the problem is endemic, and take action to prevent it.

The two possible courses of action are:

1. continue to forbid married men from being priests, but administer psychological testing to help weed out candidates who might be more prone to the behavior, and keep much closer tabs on priests, make sure that a priest and a minor are not alone together for more than a few minutes OR:

2. do the more logical thing, allow married people to serve as priests, and purge ALL priests with any history of anything even resembling pedophilia.

It's that simple. Do you see this pope doing ANY of that?

[daveskilt]

237. has sarcasm not been invented in Udoland?

sorry I was unclear. To say there is no pedophillia problem in the catholic clergy because more priests only wank thinking of kiddies than actually abuse them is like saying there is no crime in the US because the majority of people routinely fail to commit felonies.

lets face it being a priest or a boy scout leader is going to attract people who want to be around little boys. sometimes for bad reasons. It should be of paramount concern but this pope puts his head in the sand and says it doesnt exist. Maybe he learned that trick from when he was herding jewish slaves from dachua while he was in the hitler youth. His justification for that was that he had a sore finger and so never actually shot any of the victims he herded.

this asshat of a pope is the worst kind of fascist turd. The kind that screams all is well and dares you to say differently.

[UdoKier]

241. Sorry, but there ARE people here that take that position.

Thanks for clarifying.

[K-W]

229. Reactionary, but temporary.

At first he thought progressivism sounded pretty cool until he got scared when it didnt follow the model he had in his head so he flipped out and became a conservative, and I mean that in the modern use of the word where it refers to faux-conservative reactionaries.

Hes not all bad, but the catholic church wont be taking any steps forward during his brief reign.

[Nothing Without Hope]

230. Ratzinger was head of what used to be called the Inquisition for 20+ years

...an office where he frequently wielded his power to "discipline" those whom he saw as deviating from doctrinal purity. Priests and nuns had to submit to his judgments or be punished, up to and including excommunication. Of course, the proclamations and corrections also were intended for laypeople, for example those who might dare to support such a clearly non-doctrinally correct group as the Masons (see below). Two of the excellent DU threads about "disciplined" clergy are here:

1. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=18845 -- "Reflection on the Papacy by Matthew Fox (defrocked by Ratzinger)"
   
2. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3514470#3516159 -- "Ratzinger & the persecution of Seattle Archbishop Raymond Hunthausen")

Since 1908 the new name of the Inquisition is the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Since this is the 21st century, it has a web site (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith). (Just imagine what the web site of the Inquisition would have been in earlier centuries when it was really in the news!)

Here are some tidbits from the CDF/Inquisition web site:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_pro_14071997_en.html
CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

Founded in 1542 by Pope Paul III with the Constitution "Licet ab initio," the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was originally called the Sacred Congregation of the Universal Inquisition as its duty was to defend the Church from heresy. It is the oldest of the Curia's nine congregations.

The only curial organism which is older is the Secretariat of State, whose forerunner, the Apostolic Secretariat, was created by Innocent VIII on December 31, 1487, with the Constitution "Non debet reprehensibile."

Pope St. Pius X in 1908 changed the name to the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office. It received its current name in 1965 with Pope Paul VI. Today, according to Article 48 of the Apostolic Constitution on the Roman Curia, "Pastor Bonus", promulgated by the Holy Father John Paul II on June 28, 1988, «the duty proper to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is to promote and safeguard the doctrine on the faith and morals throughout the Catholic world: for this reason everything which in any way touches such matter falls within its competence.»

The congregation is now headed by Prefect Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. It has a secretary, His Excellency Mgr. Angelo Amato, S.D.B., an under-secretary, P. Joseph Augustine Di Noia, O.P., a Promotor of Justice Mgr. Charles Scicluna, and a staff of 33, according to the 2002 "Annuario Pontificio" or "Pontifical Yearbook." It also has 25 members - cardinals, archbishops and bishops - and 28 consulters. Given the nature of its task, congregation work is divided into four distinct sections: the doctrinal office, the disciplinary office, the matrimonial office and that for priests.

(snip)

You can see "some texts by Cardinal Ratzinger" at the site, mostly homilies on various ceremonial occasions, here: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/doc_rat_index.htm

On the home page there are also lists of "doctrinal documents" and "disciplinary documents." Many of these are in Latin and so not readily accessible to most people born in the last century, but a few are available in living languages. Here's a sample "disciplinary document" directed against that well-known "morally evil" group the Masons:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html
CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.

Joseph Card. RATZINGER
Prefect

+ Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.
Titular Archbishop of Lorium
Secretary

[Misunderestimator]

235. Excellent post and links! Thanks.

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Padraig18]

233. Riiiiiiight.

:tinfoilhat:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

234. He wears a funny hat. n/t