Does anyone here think Ratzinger was a *good* choice?

[WilliamPitt]

I sure as hell don't, for a whole slew of reasons.

But I'd like to do a little togetherness demonstration here. Ya know, that whole "DU is filled with people who agree with you" kind of thing.

So...anyone *like* this choice?

[Zenlitened]

1. I do. His predecessor was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Ratzinger...

... is just a wolf.

[autorank]

3. Agreed. Time to bring things to a head. The true face...of the rulers.

[piece sine]

2. Who is this...

Joe the Rat I'e been hearing about.

[R. A. Fuqua]

4. he was the choice of

the leadership of the church.

They are the ones with the authority and responsibility to make the decision and I respect that.

Granted--if I were running the church--I probably would have choosen differently--and I would also run things a lot differently.

BUT--that is not the case--the people with the authority to choose made their choice--and I accept it. (I am not Catholic, but respect the Pope as a religious leader)

[Warpy]

17. If they'd stick to religion, they'd get a lot more respect from me

When celibate old men who know fuck all about it start to issue proclamations on sex, reproduction, social roles, marriage, and the difficult choices only mated and/or married people know about, then they lose all respect.

[R. A. Fuqua]

24. but you see---if they

are out-of-touch they will lose the people and the religion will die.

Just like with a corporation they will pay for their mistake if they pick the wrong CEO. It is their decision--as it should be--I do not own any stock in this venture.

I just sit back and watch.

[Kellanved]

5. No

I am extremely disappointed by the cardinal's choice.
My disappointment about many of the discussions on DU, which appear to be "stupid argument recitation"-competitions does not even come close.

[Wapsie B]

6. To repeat an earlier post

I made, I don't think a more progressive Pope would stand a chance in hell of surviving against the Opus Dei crowd. They'd be gunning for him, and not with words either.

But more to the point, no he wasn't a good choice.

[piece sine]

7. LA TImes reported this morning...

Opus Dei openly backed Joe the Rat.

[Wapsie B]

10. Doesn't suprise me in the least.

[yvr girl]

8. Well at least he's fairly old

and from most reports not very dynamic.

[Inland]

9. Actually, he was the choice we KNEW was reactionary conservative

We didn't know much about anyone BUT him.

As conservative as JP without having the personal touch or warmth that made one comfortable with him anyway.

Nothing pastoral. A Vatican bureaucrat.

My only take is that he is a caretaker Pope and that he showed everyone his biopsy results to prove he would be out in a few years.

[tx_dem41]

11. Is this one of those trick questions, you journalists love to ask?

;-)

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Inland]

23. Yeah, but ASIDE from that....

Which of the people you don't think should be named pope do you think is the best choice?

[GreenArrow]

13. nein

It depresses the hell out of me.

[JackRiddler]

14. I like it...

It's honest, it diminishes the hold of the Church over reasonable people, it raises no false hopes about the nature of this Church's hierarchy, less energy will be wasted by well-meaning people expecting the Church to stand up for them.

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. No.

I'm very disappointed; I'd hoped for a more moderate choice. At this juncture in the history of the Church, of Europe, and of the world, a reactionary hardliner like Ratzinger seems the worst possible man for the job.

[stellanoir]

16. Though the last Pope

was hardly a progressive, he had great vibes, twinkling eyes, a great smile, and droves of charisma. This dude definitely has none of the above.

I'm not even Catholic but I did have an admiration for the last Pope, despite the heinous pediphilia, of which I seriously doubt he was aware, and his attitudes towards gays, and birth control. He had been a poet and a playwrite and had fallen in love in his youth.

I appreciated that he was sort of a Rennaisance guy and the last of a breed that we see scarcely now. He was probably the only person on the planet that got to call * out on his bogus war. Loved him for that alone.

Plus out of deference to my son's Parisian paternal great grandmother who adored him, I thought he was pretty genuine. She was amazingly cool.

I'll never forget the image of the war monger Cheney gifting him with a dove. That one seared indellibly into my consciousness.

This one completely pales by comparison. IMHO.

Oh well.

Best Pope thread all day. . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x3080830

[ananda]

18. Well, if you want to see..

.. the end of hope for any progression in the RC church, then Ratzi was a good choice.

Just like Bush was a good choice for making sure that we see the end of good government in the USA.

Sue

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. Let me put this way

until today I thought W was the anti-christ. I now realize I was wrong.

I just hope this is the end of the RC church. That is the only good that will come of this.

[leftchick]

20. As a lifelong Catholic I say

NO! It makes me sick what has become of the church. I may go over to Greek Orthodox or perhaps Episcipalian. The Catholic Church has gone to the dark side like they did way back when.

:(

[Boomer]

26. Heard an echo from a friend of mine

She has returned to the Catholic church after an absence of many years, a staunch believer in the philosophy of ministering to the poor and striving to be kind, which fits with her progressive, Liberal politics.

But today she said that Ratzinger is the one man she could not support as pope. Not ever, no how.

Not sure how she's going to resolve this conflict.

[Mugsy]

21. Name choice (Benedict XVI) bodes well.

The fact that Ratzinger chose the name of a notable reformer as his namesake might suggest that he plans on taking on many of the issues that JP2 left behind:

o Child sexual abuse by priests in the U.S.
o People using religion to justify support for war.
o Ditto for support of the death penalty.

...more?

[Pockets]

29. I agree

I think we should see how this plays out.

[Pockets]

31. More?

Using religion to justify:
1) denying people healtcare
2) denying foreign aid
3) corporatism / usery
4) a politcal party alienating an entire population of the country, educated liberals.
5) etc.

[TahitiNut]

38. St. Benedict was an ascetic ...

... who engaged in self-inflicted suffering. "Suffering is good" according to those who engage in corporal mortification. Thus, it is "good" that the poor suffer. Popes who've chosen the name "Benedict" do NOT have an illustrious legacy.

[Pockets]

22. YES, only because...

I'm mostly German, not the best reason.

[roguevalley]

27. the first time he mouths off and quashes an entire religion because

it won't be going to heaven because it doesn't recognize him as God on earth, that is when the poop hits the fan. Until then, we all sit with held breath.

[n2mark]

33. Wrong choice

especially since reading the many articles on him today. This vote was completed too quickly, almost like they knew beforehand who would be elected, He won't do anything regarding the sexual abuse, he thinks the priests were being attacked by a group. He said the church is not against war, not against the death penalty but it is against abortion and birth control. He also was against the changes in the church during the time of Pope John XXIII. I stopped reading further was getting too depressed.

[MisterP]

37. like Mel Gibson; he rejects Vatican II as well

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. If you liked the Dark Ages, he's a swell choice.

He's also a good match for the Taliban.

[HEyHEY]

28. A guy at my work liked him becuase he was "The most liberaL'

A bit minformed I think

[WI_DEM]

30. hard to say

his actions will speak louder than words. I kind of think of some of the supreme court justices we have had who went on to surprise us--for instance Eisenhower appointees Earl Warren and William Brennan, who would have thought that Ike would have appointed two of the leading liberals the court ever had. And what of Nixon nominee Harry Blackmun who ended up authoring Roe v Wade or for that matter Bush I nominated Justice Souter. We may be surprised, probably not, but it could happen.

[DinahMoeHum]

Just what you need, another old fogie. . .78 years old ???

IIRC, John Paul II was 58 years old when he assumed the Papacy.


:evilfrown:

[Sandpiper]

32. I like that no one will be confused by his charm

Unlike that of John Paul II.

Ratzinger is bigoted, homophobic, reactionary, who makes no secret that it's "my way, or the highway."


I predict that because of this, even more people will choose "the highway" under his papacy than under JPII.

[piece sine]

42. besides

Joe the Rat even looks like Nixon!

[theboss]

34. I view his choice as a punt in a way

If nothing else, he will maintain the status quo of John Paul II's reign. And the Cardinal's will see how conservative dogma plays without the charm of John Paul II. I think any pope after John Paul II is going to be transitional.

The next conclave will probably make or break the church for the 21st century, however.

[Mrs. Overall]

35. I'm wondering if a dying John Paul II expressed a wish

that Ratzinger be the next pope and the cardinals felt an obligation to follow JPII's desire. I think this explains the rapid election process. Perhaps the cardinals felt obligated, since JPII will soon be beautified and made a saint.

I am absolutely shocked by this choice. I had to run to the store and buy butter cookies for my Nutella to calm myself. Sometimes, I feel like the entire world is taking a hard turn to the right, and I just don't get it....

[ScreamingMeemie]

36. No, and I think the Church is about to take a HUGE hit to the pocketbook.

Perhaps then...but I'm losing hope for that as well. They've become like the average Republican, unable to admit they may have made mistakes.

[Sapphire Blue]

39. I am weeping. My heart is weeping. My soul is weeping.

Born into a Catholic family, baptized Catholic, I am now a ‘cafeteria Catholic’ at most, feeling that the RCC rejects & condemns people in a way that Jesus never would.

Through the years I have sporadically attended churches of various denominations, but typically pray in private...

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret; and thy Father who seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

- Matthew 6:5-6


I was hoping that the Cardinals would select a pope who walked in the footsteps of Jesus... one who would be an advocate for “the least of these my brethren”. They chose Ratzinger... I can’t bring myself to call him ‘Pope’ at this time, don’t know if I ever will. Time will tell what he brings to the Papacy.

Right now, I am terribly, terribly saddened. Terribly saddened.

May God / Allah / Jehovah / YHWH / the Creator / Waheguru / the One have mercy on us.


(I posted this previously in another thread, and am still weeping)

[plcdude]

40. second verse

worse than the first. Keep singing.

[dragon695]

41. Too bad they can't find someone like Archbishop Desmond Tutu

A man who TRUELY walks in the path of Jesus. Alas, he's Anglican and married, but you know one can always imagine.

[piece sine]

43. Tutu's not virgin...

what are you thinking??

[RPM]

44. I do...

but then again, I was hoping for the Catholic Church to find a way to make itself less relevant, less appealing and less responsive to the world.

[Sapphire Blue]

45. Background on Ratzinger... from the 80's

Ratzinger & the persecution of Seattle Archbishop Raymond Hunthausen

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3514470


IMO the selection of Ratzinger was tragic.