Paying for (and apparently Happily so) for what used to be FREE

[SoCalDem]

The AAR thread got me thinking.. There are so many things that we have been conned into paying for, that used to be "free"..and paying MORE for things that used to be a nominal amount.

Maybe we ARE a nation of "sheep".

When I was a kid, NO ONE had cable..We all had the same three channels, and some larger cities had some local TV channels. We had somewhat "fuzzy" reception in some areas, but instead of the "powers-that-be" setting out to change that, so that everyone got decent reception, they threw up their hands and said.."Hey it's the best we can do"...Strangely though, "private" companies managed to come up with a way (cable) to send out a better signal, AD-free(I go Waaay back), and it was very cheap. They had to somehow. lure people to give up the FREE, for the PAY.. We DID. Of course, that only took more pressure off the "powers-that-be" to EVER really improve the "free" signal.

The first time we signed up for cable it cost $6.95 a month, and the reception was very good. It was nice to not have to worry about that damned antenna in a windstorm.

.......

Companies used to crave attention for themselves and their products, so they gladly gave away merchandise with their names on it, so that we could become their adjunct ad agency...all across the globe.. We trotted around wearing and using their "premiums"...shirts, hats, pencils & pens, toys for the kiddies. For a few boxtops (and later UPC codes) one could send away for things (paying only shipping charges).Now, companies actually put out high-end catalogs with their "merchandise" so you can buy stuff made in sweatshops for pennies, but costing you a lot...so you can advertise for them...for FREE... The FREE is now on THEIR end of the spectrum..
Somewhere along the line, we apparently decided that this stuff was SO good, that we would no longer ask for them for FREE..we would PAY top dollar to have Gloria Vanderbilt's name on our asses, and Del Monte on our hats.

........

There was also a time when each municipality owned and ran their own water department, electric company, and natural gas plant, so the local people had economical, and affordable delivery of service. The heat and water service was "just another bill" they paid each month, and most people had no trouble affording those bills. Somehow, the elected officials of most communities were brought around to believe that it was "too much trouble" to own and control those things, and now we all wonder if we will be able to afford those same critical services.

.........

We used to be able to turn on the radio/TV at the proscribed time,or pick up a newspaper, and get our "news". Now our "news" is so "sanitized-for-our-protection", that we never really know what's going on...unless a child goes missing, a freaky celebrity kills or maims someone, an American Idol voting scandal occurs, or a celebrity dies. We are kept informed about trivia, and yet are not informed about important things. "The truth is out there", but the only way we will find out about it, is to "buy the book" much later on. The few real news people we still have left, are apparently too afraid, or too chastened to report it contemporaneously, so they do it in book form...for a price. Those of us who care, DO buy the books, which only makes us even more frustrated, because we know that this stuff is what EVERYONE should know.


........

and now to radio..

Radio has gotten itself so condensed and "packaged" that many of us cannot bear to listen anymore.Satellite radio seems to be filling the gap, but the equipment is pricey, and now we know how fickle the programming can be. My family spent A LOT to get me the complete Sirius package, so that I could get AAR. Of course we all know that it's for just a little bit more time. I cannot justify buying MORE equipment, so I will now just do without, but the fact that to get programing we want we have to pay a premium, is what disturbs me. The meting out of information for ever-increasing cost to the consumer is what's troubling. As our FCC continues to turn the screws, look for more and more cost to us, as the defections to cable and satellite continue.

It won't end there... the FCC now has commercials running that are aimed at the plan they have.. They do plan on "regulating" cable and satellite.. Plan on it!

I do not begrudge the companies who pay (through commercials) for the things we watch and hear, but it annoys me to no end, that we are losing control of media outlets that we PAY DEARLY for AND have to endure the commercials too.

........

The truly odd thing is that for some reason, government regulations on banking are bad, government regulations on the SEC are bad, controls on polluters are bad, government regulations on energy production are bad, but they are just what the "information organizations" need.

We are all paying more, and enjoying less, but I guess that's just the American Way :(

[Lars39]

1. Having to PAY to enter a park....it's so wrong.

:(

[7th_Sephiroth]

2. gotta pay the salaries of the park officials

they do have fairly difficult jobs

[SoCalDem]

8. Their salaries used to be a part of the state/federal budget

but as cuts occured, the parks were forced into "self-sufficiency"..Of course, the money "saved" is just made up in some other sector.. The public gets to pay double. We pay with taxes, and with "admission fees", and instead of enhancing the parks, we are just keeping them on "life-supports".:(

[7th_Sephiroth]

17. but what can we do?

just not spend any money and let the parks go to Halliburton for drilling? or office parks?

[SoCalDem]

18. That's my point.. We all just let it happen

and now must live with the results:)

[anarchy1999]

39. You are so right and dead on about our current state of affairs.

Thanks SoCal for such a great post.

I haven't posted in days and you moved me to.

Everything you wrote is true for me as well and I think about it practically every day.

"we all just let it happen" haunts me every day. I feel guilty myself for having gone to sleep while I became a "wage slave" and semi-prosperous through the 90's. I quit caring after the '92 election and became very disillusioned with participating in politics at all. I just focused on making money and making it as a single mom. I regret it now.

Once again, thanks.

[7th_Sephiroth]

45. i hate defeatist hypocrits like you

your the reason the democratic party is so weak, you forget the concenquences wont be only to the repubs, but everyone asshole

[SoCalDem]

48. Gee, 7th,,, it's nothing Personal....

:hi:

I don't "hate" you because you are a grumpy-gus:P

[LiberallyInclined]

50. "pay-as-you-go"

million/billionaires with large estates have no need themselves for parks- so why should their taxes go to fund them?
And btw- i DO NOT share this belief- i'm only pointing out the 'logic' they use...
i used to work with a guy who got pissed off about the county spending money to establish a nice bike path along old railroad tracks next to a river for pretty much the length of the county.
"i don't ride a bike. i like to hunt. why don't they spend tax money on hunting reserves?" he was serious.
i pointed out to him the large number of taxpayers who did use the bikepaths every weekend especially- and asked him how much he'd enjoy a hunting reserve with hundreds or even thousands of people using it at the same time he wanted to...he thought about it for a minute, and all he could say was that he still didn't think it was fair.

interesting times a-comin'.

[Cleita]

10. Not only that, a lot of the personnel running the parks have

been privatized, turned over to companies that do this. In exchange they pay all the bills and turn a percentage of the gate take over to the Forest Service or whoever the parks belong to.

[TexasSissy]

13. Part of the reason for that is to keep kids from hanging out there.

They did that in a park in Louisiana (where I'm from) years ago. I was one of those teenagers. And they were right. It had gotten so bad that teenagers would virtually take over the park on weekends, which discouraged families from going there. So the park service started charging just $1 to get in. We wouldn't pay to "hang out," so that solved the problem. I think it is now $2.

[Lars39]

20. What problem?

Public space should be for teens, too.

[Jimbo S]

40. Loitering?

[TexasSissy]

43. True. But when you have hoards of teens, no one else will

usu. go to that place. It's intimidating, and teens tend to act up. So when a family packs a lunch and goes to spend the day at a small, local state park, and when they get there, the place is overrun with cars parked all over the place, and teens (who are loud) walking everywhere and generally having teenage fun (which is different from family and adult fun), a family is not likely to park in the midst of it. It's not fun for them, not to mention peaceful. It's loud, the teens might (and usu. do) encroach in the family's space, the language isn't always appropriate for the family's kiddies to hear, etc., etc.

Having groups of teens loitering in a public place is not desirable. If it's a public park, however, it's easier just to charge a $1 to get in, thereby discouraging the teens (or lessening the number to a more manageable one) than to try arresting them (who wants to arrest them?) or confronting them. It's an easy, effective way to go.

I agree with the practice, as long as the fee is small. It only takes a small fee to discourage teens from hanging out somewhere.

[WLKjr]

28. In Ohio, we have some fawkers who want to do something like that

[Born Free]

29. (deleted)

(deleted)

[Norquist Nemesis]

3. *kick* Haven't hooked into satellite radio

...yet. It irks me that I should have to pay for something (of which I can't afford the equipment let along signing up for a monthly subscription) just so I can listen to something that should be free! RW talk radio has completely gobbled up the Chicago market; well, that and religious/gospel talk. Even the NPR station leans to the right of center. :grr:

My cable channel (I pay $143/mo for digital cable and highspeed connection) keeps adding on religion channels and programs on the lower basic channels, then doing "upgrades" and "package enhancements" that take channels I normally would watch only to place them high up on the lineup and into subscription service enhancements that I have to pay MORE for to get back!

I'm so tired of it!

[SoCalDem]

4. They deliberately "move" desireable channels into "pay-extra" territory

and spread them out, so that you cannot get them in ONE jump up.. You usually have to take two "special" packages to get the ones you want, but I can watch Korean game shows for free..:)

Rightwingers are not stupid,.. they set out to drown out all competing opinions, and even though it took them 30 years, they did it. Now, we have to PAY to hear "the other side of the story"..

They people who cannot afford, or refuse to pay the extra cost are the ones who NEED most desperately to hear both sides :(

[brook]

21. Admittedly,

I was half asleep - but I do believe Charter offered 5 channels of NASCAR last night for 99 bucks month. Now, that's an offer I can refuse.:)

I just dropped my digital and upper tiers - had to cut my budget somewhere.

[dcfirefighter]

5. One problem with broadcast

is that the folks with the licenses get to keep them till they otherwise go out of business or get bought out.

If we (the people) made them pay an annual rent on a license that we (the government/FCC) give them, licenses would change hands more often. Do you think it's a coincidence that companies with these license are conservative? Of course not, they don't want to lose their gravy train.

If we did this, we might then have a truly free and independent media.

BTW I don't mind paying to enter a park, or a highway, or a parking garage, or a public university, even though we already paid for it through earlier taxes. I would like to see those fees, above and beyond operating & capital costs, go to reduce taxes on employment.

[Selteri]

16. My cable keeps doing the same

and keeps adding in new and higher hidden fees.

My cable has gone up 25 bucks a month in the past few months with 'HDTV capability' even though I can't use it. THeir claim - It is part of the package and it being available doesn't mean I have to use it. (And I can't, so I'm paying 25 bucks a month for something I don't want and can't use.)

[ananda]

33. wwhy

Why are you paying -anything- for TV?

boycott!

[onenote]

51. who is your cable company?

Sorry, but I have trouble believing that your cable bill went up by 25 dollars a month because of the addition of HDTV signals that you don't receive. I know a whole lot about the cable industry and while rate increases are certainly the norm, there's no way someone's bill goes up by 25 bucks a month unless they are voluntarily adding service. For example, I added HDTV service and it increased my bill by around $7 and that simply was the cost of the equipment. The charge for programming didn't go up at all.

onenote

[SoCalDem]

52. Adelphia (when we had it) had several "tiers" of programming

and they would regularly "move" channels from the lower tiers to the higher cost ones, so that if you still wnated to get Disney or TLC or History, you would have to "upgrade" your plan, and after a few such changes it would be very possibvle to have your rate go much higher.. We just dropped cable and took up Dish :)

[Straight Shooter]

6. Our town's movie theater runs local ads over and over before the show.

I went with friends to the theater and although the movie was supposed to begin at 6:30, we all had to endure 15 minutes of the same 10 ads running over and over on the screen, of which 9 of them were for businesses of the very same people who own the theater. This is a small town, and only one theater for many many miles.

Could I show up later and hope to miss the ads? Maybe that will work, or maybe not. Everyone in our group was furious that we had to pay to see the movie and be bombarded with these ads on screen. What the hell ever happened to cartoons before the main feature?

I won't go there again. I've got a DVD, and I know how to use it. :)

[lectrobyte]

7. it's even more insidious than that, even water. There used to be a

water cooler. Now there's a Dasani (Coca-Cola, I believe) vending machine that wants 75 cents for 12 (or is it 16 -- not sure, I bring my own from home) ounces of water and a plastic bottle you have to throw away... Simply mind boggling.

[SoCalDem]

9. Why on earth should your company GIVE you water??

:sarcasm:

They can get PAID to "host" a machine that you can BUY water from:puke:..

[hfojvt]

11. some of the free stuff on the internet is going away too

The phone book site I used went to a fee-for-search.

But I was getting free radio from windows messenger. It was commercial free too, except they kept offering to sell me CDs.

As far as the 6.95 a month cable, how much is that in "constant dollars" and how does that compare to today. I have never gotten cable TV. In fact for years I did not own a TV at all, and probably should never have gotten one, but I do like my DVDs.

Long distance calling is certainly cheaper than it used to be.

edit: I can also email and message all around the globe without any usage charges.

[SoCalDem]

12. I don't know, but now I pay $102 a month for Dish

and I may watch 7 or 8 shows on a regular basis..:)

[hfojvt]

14. well, that's almost half of my house payment

nothing to smiley about. Maybe just California prices. I would not pay that much for internet service, and I love the internet and may not be able to live without it. If it was $102 a month I sure as hell would try.

[SoCalDem]

15. Dish is for TV.. I pay $60 a month for internet

and $20 a month for my website (where I keep pictures):)

[hfojvt]

24. I know it is for TV

I was saying that, not only would I not pay that much for TV, I would not even pay that much for internet which is a billion times better than TV. You are paying alot for internets too. I hope you are getting broadband for that. My DSL is only 26.95 a month and I see Roadrunner advertised for that too. Maybe it is a regional thing.

[SoCalDem]

26. I was always afraid to take advantage of those "freebies"

I already get tons of junk email:)

[Jose Diablo]

19. Another one is 'freeways'

the federal fuel tax was used to build the 'superslabs'. We still pay the fuel tax, but now that money is diverted into pork projects, so the representatives can tell the constituents what a fine job they are doing. The result of the diversion of the fuel tax money is the highway infrastructure is wearing out.

Our politicians solution? Why lets make the 'superslabs' privately owned toll roads. What they want is to keep the fuel tax for 'their' pork projects (to keep getting reelected) and also make the users pay a use tax on roads we already built and paid for.

Florida is big on these federally built toll roads. Now in Georgia, we are hearing more and more about how 'they' think it is good idea.

You can bet, the corporations have their greedy eyes on many many other 'commons' that they want to make private, so they can charge to use what was once owned by us all.

Look into the history of the water system in Bolivia and how Bechtel bribed the politicians in Bolivia into giving ownership of fresh water supplies to Bechtel, so they could 'improve' it.

It is the corporations and their 'public' spirit that is bribing our elected officials into screwing us, the people, out of what is already ours.

[dcfirefighter]

23. Toll Roads

assign road costs better than fuel taxes. I've no problem with charging a toll to access the commons: but the revenue should be used for the common good, rather than pet projects. How about raising the personal exemption for the income tax?

[Jose Diablo]

25. I disagree

The fuel tax is already enacted for the express purpose of paying for the roads. Make the politicians give-up the pork and force the allocation of that fuel tax for roads, period. The tax cannot be reduced, because that would lower the cost of fuel, thus discouraging improvements in fuel economy.

As for turning the commons over to a private enterprise to be run at profit, I don't see why we should make what once was efficient use of capital, through government, into a mercantile enterprise that claims to be competitive, but in fact is monopolistic because it is inefficient to double the cost of capital to build 2 roads going to same place.

Competition always implies there is more capacity than is needed, how else can 2 competitors exist unless there is extra capacity. If there is no extra capacity, plus two suppliers, then they MUST be in collusion and their prices are fixed. This is not competition, this is mercantile monopoly.

I thought the 'Sherman Anti-Trust Laws" outlawed monopolies, except those given exceptions due to the 'commons' the companies managed. Yet we keep hearing about bringing the 'miracle' of competition to areas that it is impossible by the nature of it being a 'common' to actually have a true competition.

In those situations, if exclusions to anti-trust laws are given, then the industry MUST be regulated to protect the users, the customers, from predatory actions by the corporations.

Lastly, why should we have to pay a toll, when the government is already recieving all they need in fuel taxes for the roads?

[dcfirefighter]

54. I wasn't clear

I think that roads should be owned by the people through the government, as commons.

I also think that the people at large should charge those people who want to use the particular road. Particularly when the road begins to become congested.

An alternative, esp. for roads rather than highways, is to charge landowners for the incremental increase in property values that new roads and interchanges bring.

[KansDem]

22. Yeah, I remember those days...

When I was a kid, NO ONE had cable...

I grew in the LA basin. We had channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13. All free. I remember a vote for "pay TV" back in the 1960s. It was crazy and soundly voted down. Who wanted to pay for what was already free? But then, programming was better back then. Or seemed to be better, perhaps due to nostaglia.
.......

Companies used to crave attention for themselves and their products, so they gladly gave away merchandise with their names on it...

I remember liquor stores gave away bottle openers with beer brand names on them. I collect those now.

The only "designer" label I remember is the little Levis label on the right back pocket of blue jeans. There wasn't the "billboard" type of shirts and sweatshirts seen today.

........

There was also a time when each municipality owned and ran their own water department, electric company, and natural gas plant...

I don't remember my stepfather saying anything about paying the utilities! So I guess is wasn't a problem then...

.........

We used to be able to turn on the radio/TV at the proscribed time,or pick up a newspaper, and get our "news"...

Shared the dinner hour with Walter Cronkite and CBS every evening. Particularly important during the Vietnam years. It seemed the newspapers and weekly newsmagazines really had news, not glorified ads and propanda like they have now...

........

and now to radio..

Radio has gotten itself so condensed and "packaged" that many of us cannot bear to listen anymore...

Don't recall listening to radio much while growing up. Listened for awhile to XERB and Wolfman Jack. Also listened to the Laker games during my junior high years. Didn't listen much beyond that...

........


We are all paying more, and enjoying less, but I guess that's just the American Way...

Amen, brother/sister...

[Lisa]

27. bank service charges!

Remember those math problems they use to give you in grade school, to work out compound interest? They are now bogus -- set up a bank account with $100 and the principal soon begins to go down, with monthly "service charges" deductions (even when you don't do anything with the account).

Banks used to do all kinds of things for free -- direct deposit, traveller's checks, etc. -- and now you have to pay for them. When they introduced ATMs in the 1980s, you could use the ones that had your own bank's logo on them for free. This year, my bank took many of its machines out of service, and contracted its ATMs out to other companies -- so even though they have the same name as before on them, they ding you for $1.50 every time you use them.

Oh -- and commercials in movie theaters. When did that start again? I've heard that this was the case back before the 1950s in some places (before TV was widespread) -- but at least back then, you would get a cartoon and a newsreel as part of the evening's entertainment.

And in schools -- they would issue pens, pencils, notebooks, etc. to the lower grades, anyway. Last year I helped the local single parents' resource center with their school supplies drive. Apparently the kids are expected to bring most of these things, even in Grades 1 and 2.

[Jimbo S]

41. Credit Unions in my area

don't charge ATM fees. (Oh BTW, I'm a very happy credit union member)

How is it with everyone else here?

[Lisa]

44. that's why I got an account with VanCity credit union last year!

At least they put their profits back into the community.

[chalky]

46. And a group of Credit Unions in my area banded together

so that any member of any of the Credit Unions in the group can use an ATM of any of the other Credit Unions AT NO CHARGE.

Yay, Credit Unions! (No wonder the banking industry went after them with guns a-blazin' in the 80's).

[tammywammy]

56. I also use a Credit Union

I'm close to a branch, so I use their ATM for free. I don't get charged to talk to a teller or use the drive thru lanes.

I love my bank. Credit Unions are the way to go.

[sweetheart]

30. Progressive enslavement

Make no mistake about it, the civil war was overturned on Dec 12, 2000,
and every action of these zealots is to restore what they consider the
natural order of the plantation. There, you work and are owned by the
company store, the boss man to whom you are perpetually indebted for your
livelihood, your house, food and your family's care.

When you dissent strongly, you lose your job, are turned out of your
home and lose the right to vote by the reality of having no address.
You MUST work every day to pay the bills of the master, as there are no
natural rights for slaves. Slaves only say "yes sir", and fall in to
line of the plantation, as there is no alternative, but to be
enslaved by a different plantation, but to be free, FREE; that is
something that must be erased, much as in logan's run. The place
outside their paradigm of slavery, the civilized rest of the world,
is painted as barbaric and bent on destroying America.

Yet that pending destruction is the paranoia of the plantation master
speaking, not the heart of the slave. In that great heart beats all
that was always free, unfettered by the corporate morass, unenslaved to
pay for wars, to fight wars and to be willingly coerced and fooled in
to accepting enslavement as the natural state of affairs.

Some say economic slavery is much better than slavery slavery, as you
are not owned. But are you not owned? Do you not pay the man,
increasingly obliged to load 16 tons to owe your soul to the company store.

[mrbill]

31. gas stations have changed a lot over the years.....

In the past, the attendant would pump the gas, clean your windshield, and check the oil and tire pressure. Sometimes you got a free drinking glass with a 10 gallon purchase(about $2.50).

Those free road maps were great.

In my humble opinion, inflation began to get out of control in 1964 when silver was removed from us coinage. From that point on, the monetary system is using tokens and monopoly money.

[etherealtruth]

34. In the same line of thought...

how about "free" air at gas stations?

[dsc]

32. I am currently served by a public utility

and they are greedier than any private one I have ever been served by. Much of what you said is true but that part is a howler.

[oldlady]

35. Business still give away free stuff

but only to other businesses. I remember my mom's kitchen was full of strange gadgetry, like egg slicers and apple corers, that had business logos stamped on them. The calendars were all from businesses. The shoe store gave out shoehorns. The hardware store gave out paint sticks. The dentist gave out little toys and puzzles. The bank gave out candy. K-mart gave out balloons-- the nice punching kind. The post office gave out stamp collecting starter kits (which were excellent for decorating doll houses). We got products to try by mail.

Now, I see that same generosity-- but, only to other businesses. My office is full of plants, framed posters, office gadgets-- all free from other companies. My house has two avon sample packs.

It's a robber-barron world.
peace

[BeFree]

36. I love threads with "be free" in them...

....Looked at my phone bill: $6.50 a month for interstate access, $78 a year for something that should be free. That's about it for me, tho, everything else is still nearly free. Of course, it is a lifestyle choice and one not easily lived up too, what with all the temptations...

[SoCalDem]

47. So, you thought "this thread was about youuuu"....

"you're so vainnnnnnn"..:)

Our phone bill has a whole page of "special" little add-ons.. .02 gere.... .06 there.. it all adds up :(

[DemBeans]

37. A good example of this ---

Apparently, if you now want to be a fan of a professional sports team, you need to pony up for cable because almost all of the games have been moved there (and ESPN getting Monday Night Football is the final piece of the puzzle).

It's funny how local citizens are supposed to pay through the nose in increased taxes to finance stadiums for wealthy owners, but many can't watch the games being played there because they can't afford cable.

[shrike]

38. "The boys upstairs want to see/ how much you'll pay f

for what you used to get for free."

Courtesy of Tom Petty, "The Last DeeJay."

[rniel]

42. I'm so old I still remember

When we did not have to buy water...

When you needed to put air in your tire it was free too...

[SoCalDem]

49. That's why they were called "SERVICE" stations

:(

[MIS_UNDER_ESTIMATED]

53. What about sharing food?

Now if you want to split your food with someone else in a restaurant they charge you a fee for doing this! That's crazy!

What about charges for drink refills that used to be free?

What about some restaurants charging separately for salad or a potato when it used to be included with the meal?

[SoCalDem]

55. The "senior" portions around here , often have things "missing"

and when you add them back in, the cost is the same as the non-senior item, and sometimes more, since the senior portions are often smaller (which is ok with ME)..)

The odd thing is that they often include DESSERT, yet omit the salad/veg.. you must pay extra for the healthy part, but they give you the sugary stuff free :shrug: