Religious people of DU - are non-believers going to hell?

[HEyHEY]

I ask because often here the religious DUers cry foul that they are treated with disrespect by others. And I'm not going to feel bad about it if they believe I'm going to burn in hell for all eternity because I don't have their same beliefs.

I know this appears as flamebait, but it isn't meant to be... mods do with it as you see fit.

[Pacifist Patriot]

1. No brainer for me.

I'm "religious" and I don't believe in hell.

I'll say it until I'm a broken record. "Religious" does not equal Judeo-Christian.

[Solon]

9. True...

I'm religious but not Christian, so no hell in my beliefs, nor any condemnation of those who believe different or lack a belief entirely.

[supernova]

2. I don't believe in hell.

I've never believed it; nor said it.

[liberalhistorian]

48. Hey, SN, hell would be

a place with no Johnny Depp movies or without him entirely! :evilgrin: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[supernova]

60. LOL! How True, LH

<---- :loveya:


No Johnny Depp movies would be absolute torture for me! :hurts:

[dddem]

111. Hey! I'm watching Gilbert Grape as I'm typing this!

My daughter claims to be a Johnny Depp fan, but she's basing her opinion entirely on Pirates. So we bought Edward Scissorhands, rented crybaby, and are watching Gilbert Grape on cable. Gotta love Johnny.

[patrice]

3. I don't think so - But then . . .

Heaven and Hell are here. We participate in creating what is.


Harebo!

[trotsky]

4. Wow.

Unless we've got a number of disruptors coming in to vote, I must say I'm extremely disappointed in religious DUers.

[Warpy]

46. Me too. I think they all need to revisit the parable

of the good Samaritan.

It's not about helping beaten up guys on the road, folks.

[DemBones DemBones]

70. You're assuming that religious DUers are the ones voting that

non-believers will go to Hell. Is there any proof that those votes are cast by people who are religious? Even if someone said they voted that way and claimed to be a religious person, this is the internet and some people lie about everything.

[trotsky]

71. No, I specifically allowed for that possibility in my post.

If we lying, scheming, nasty, horrible non-believers decided to vote in this poll and skew the results (i.e., disrupting), then its results are invalid, obviously.

But based on the posts of several DUers I've read, I'm sure there are significant numbers on here that think non-believers are going to hell.

Or do you presume to speak for all believers and say that that's wrong?

[Fenris]

5. This poll is either very telling or we have a disruptor incursion.

[HEyHEY]

6. See you in HELL fenris!

[Fenris]

40. WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!

http://emp.byui.edu/davisr/humpix/Bosch,%20Hell,%20detail.JPG

[ReadTomPaine]

74. More Hieronymus Bosch (large)

Just because he's so cool.

[Donailin]

104. Ihave a book of that art. Creepy and yet you can't look away

here's another one thats creepy andyet you can't look away

[Warpy]

47. Heaven for the climate, Hell for the conversation-----Mark Twain

[leftchick]

64. lol!

Good old Sam was a great wit!

[Leftist Pegan09]

145. wiccans dont believe in hell

we believe in a purgatory like realm (i probably have lots of spelling errors in this oh well even my screen name is spelled wrong iam dumb)

[coeur_de_lion]

158. ok, so I'm Catholic

but that doesn't mean that I believe everyone who is an atheist or a non-Catholic is going to hell in a hat basket -- far from it.

I think people who do good are going to heaven and those who are evil (think BFEE) are going to hell. Doesn't matter about your religion or lack thereof.

I have not been paying the slightest bit of attention to the religious arguments going on at DU. But those religious folks who think everyone else is hell-bound are doing nothing but finding an excuse to be righteous. Only God can be righteous and I think He understands us better than we think He (or She) does.

Freedom of religion is what this country is based on, its why our ancestors came here from the beginning, and everything else is crap.

Waste of time to argue these things on DU, we need unity -- the GOP loves to see us fight amongst ourselves. And we do it so well.

[coeur_de_lion]

159. Sorry Heyhey, meant to respond to original message eom

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Of the religious DUers that I know

I can't think of any who believe in consigning people to hell. I suspect these are disruptors, or even mischievous non-believers trying to make religious people look bad. After all, the polls are totally anonymous.

[HEyHEY]

10. Yeah, it doesn't seem to me a true christian would condem me to hell

:think:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. It's un-Biblical for one thing

Jesus reserves condemnation for those who do evil deliberately or are uncharitable.

The statements about "No one comes to the Father except through me" are from the Gospel of John, which is the latest and which modern scholars believe to be an allegorical interpretation of Jesus' life by a writer living nearly a century after the fact.

[liberalhistorian]

37. There's a very telling passage in

the Gospel of Mark, where Jesus divides people up and has them stand on his right or his left. One group was sent to "the heaven which has been prepared for your reward" because "I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was sick or in prison and you visited me", etc. Then he cast the other group into the "lake of fire" because they did not do any of those things. When they all asked when they'd done those things for him, or when they hadn't, he said "whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me."

You'll never hear the fundies and theocratic wingnuts mention this passage at all, it might as well not exist as far as they're concerned. They certainly don't seem to take its lesson to heart.

[Spangle]

49. "My Brothers", they do help each other

I'm guessing they think this only applys to people whom they assume are Christians.

I don't see it that way. God considered ALL Human's his children. We are all brothers and sisters.

[Judi Lynn]

92. Thanks for this post. It's been a long time since I heard it.

Couldn't agree more. I'm certain you just won't hear this in any fundie Sunday sermon in many, many years.

Crossed purposes, it would seem!

[forgethell]

32. Actually, HEyHEy,

as I understand my Christian theology, it isn't the Christian who condemns you to Hell. It isn't even God. You condemn yourself to Hell when you reject God's grace.

Now that last sentence is fraught with philosophical weight, but here isn't the place to go into it.

[HEyHEY]

33. Hey, we all know god calls the shots...why can't he change legislation?

;-)

[forgethell]

68. well,

Hebrews 13:8

New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Hebrews 13:7-9 (in Context) Hebrews 13 (Whole Chapter)

[Judi Lynn]

91. Forgethell, gotta hint for ya...

IF you don't want those little faces mysteriously appearing in your text, make a check in the box at the bottom of the message box where you see the following:

Check if you DO NOT wish to use emotion icons in your message.

It's startling the first time it happens!

[Trajan]

146. I am Atheist ....

I would gladly accept the 'grace' of a REAL god ....

I will not accept the platitudes and pleas of defective human beings on such a weighty matter .. only the god itself could offer me the 'grace' which you so readily strive for .... I will not accept the anathemas and invectives hurled at us by the likes of Billy Graham, Jack Van Impe, John Paul II and their ilk, in lieu of DIRECT contact with the god who has grace ....

I need no human intermediaries to accept the grace of a REAL god ... I only need the real god to present itself to me ...

An omnipotent god has the power to have me see him, yet I do not ...

An omnipresent god would be everywhere at all times: Yet I do not see him ....

An omniscient god would recognize my plight, and guide me, without theatrics, magic or docents, to his presence : yet nothing comes to me from this alleged god; no direct contact whatsoever ... only the irritating babble of his advocates and provocatours ...

Only weak platitudes, or threats, from his flock ...

You say that 'rejecting god's grace' condemns men to hell ...

I say: What grace ? ... WHERE is the grace ? ... Where is the god of grace ??? ....

Show me that god: and dont use smoke or mirrors, nor useless words from the tomes of men ....

Direct me without delay to the REAL god, and I will accept his grace ....

Neither Books, Shrines, Temples, Mosques, Synagogues, Churches, Revivals nor Prayers will do:

It must be a real god from which to obtain this grace .... Nothing else will do for me ....

So: given that I am willing to accept the grace of such a god: How can I be condemned to an eternity of suffering for not accepting the apparently non-existent grace of an apparently non-existent god ? ...

Show me the god, and I will accept, and I will believe ...

Until then: I cannot allow such weighty matters to be decided by a mob of failed humanity ... I must follow my conscience and NOT accept such a god-spectre ...

[ellenfl]

155. wow! couldn't have said it better! thanks. eom

[PKG]

13. The problem with this kind of question--

the kind where one, marginally marginalized DU group, is asked "are you insane?", is that both lurking freepers, eager to make us look bad, will say 'yes' without fail, as will avowed foes of the marginalized group, who will do the same.

This doesn't seem to work with only religion. Conspiracy theorist polls , I suspect, are similarly freeped, as are polls regarding supporters of given candidates. If anyone had asked, "WES CLARK SUPPORTERS: DO YOU WANT CLARK TO RAPE NUNS?" back in the primary, I'm fairly certain there would be at least 20% yes votes.

[AntiCoup2K4]

142. Are you kidding? Only 20% in a Clark poll?

There would be an 80% yes vote in that poll before any of them actually read the question.

OK Clarkies, hands off the alert buttons, I'm just kidding.

And back on topic, I wouldn't send any Democrat to Hell. Now certain DLC members though........

[H2O Man]

15. I agree.

I think that it would be a shame to allow DUers to divide on the issue of religion. Both atheists and theists can play a significant role in democratic politics.

As far as "hell" goes, both heaven and hell exist inside, in the same sense that we have the potential to do good or bad. Being an atheist would not seem to predispose a person for being good or bad, any more than being a theist would.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

20. Oh, I can think of a few.

Believe me, they're there, and they're not disruptors.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

69. I agree they are

out there. The Pope fans and the Gary Bauer fans are not disruptors.

[seabeyond]

8. hell is what we create for ourselves and live in every single day

if we chose. then we go to source


on edit, only in my feel of it. merely an opinion. since i dont know. and i know no one knows, wink

[patrice]

11. Our "likeness" to "God".

BTW, have you ever wondered about a god whose creatures can do things that are outside of this god's will? Isn't a god supposed to be omnipotent?

[seabeyond]

22. omnipotent yes

and why i always come to source, for all. god gave us free will so being outside god will is part of gods will wink

[liberalhistorian]

23. We are given the gift of

free choice and free will to do as we please, we just have to deal with the consequences of our actions and the choices we make.

[seabeyond]

34. yet seeing how the lord is in our heart

he see the purity in why we did and do what we do. and he sees it in love

and that is the grace he gives us

i cannot see behavior in said purity so i need not bother judging.

[patrice]

35. IMO Whatever Jesus did . . .

Our choices have consequences, and there is *no quid pro quo*. I understand Alan Watt's "wisdom of insecurity", i think Jesus knew a few things about this also, since he was human and suffered. He wondered if he were forsaken, and yet he did what he did anyway, because he knew it had to be done, whatever the outcome.

Choosing for me has something to do with being at 50:50, salvation?:damnation? I think I learn more there.

[Art_from_Ark]

161. Not always omnipotent

The 8000 or so gods in the Shinto religion, for example, are said to have divvied up and diluted their power so much that the most you can ask of one of them is to try to keep you from getting in a traffic accident or help you to pass some entrance exam.

[Done]

12. I believe shrub will be thrown into hell.

but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

[AntiCoup2K4]

143. No, he's definitely going. The Bible even says so.

...And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.- Revelation 20:10

[LiberalEsto]

14. Hell and Satan are Judaeo-Christian concepts

and I don't believe in them.

My personal theory, for what it's worth, is that different souls take different paths following death of the body. Some are reborn into new bodies, some who died traumatically may take on a ghost form, some become part of the Holy One, some remain in an unspecified state.

I also believe that the souls of people who very strongly believe in particular forms of afterlife may perceive themselves in that afterlife. I suppose if a person strongly believed in hell, and was convinced they would end up there, they would perceive themselves in some kind of hell in their afterlife.

[Tyler Durden]

16. DEAR GAWD I CERTAINLY HOPE SO.

The last place on earth I want to be is in the Judeo/Christian version of Paradise.

Now If you'll excuse me, Bill Hicks and I are going surfing on the Lake of Fire while the STONES belt out "JUMPIN' JACK FLASH"!

[Warren DeMontague]

120. Bill Hicks was THE MAN.

No doubt.

[LoZoccolo]

18. Why would you feel license to disrespect anybody?

For one, there's no purpose in it, other than to make onesself feel good.

[Solon]

24. I would say it illustrates a disparity in respect...

Atheists may call us the religious deluded, but they also, at the same time, don't condemn us to an eternity of torment. Which is more disrespectful?

[LoZoccolo]

36. When any religion outlines consequences...

...I really can't accuse it of hate any more than I can condemn my parents for it for telling me to look both ways before I cross the street. Especially Christianity, which says that everyone, even believers, deserve hell for their sin anyways and that faith simply provides a reprieve.

I am aware that there are people who will always be offended at someone else's religious beliefs, but when it's used as an excuse to divide people with a common goal and distract them, for no discernable purpose other than to make onesself feel like they've gotten some sort of revenge, I step in.

[Solon]

50. I guess you knew the argument I was going to present....

Considering the edit in you subject line. That's the rub, however, because even you know that many on the Right that are Christian condemn people due to beliefs or for who they are, rather than just their actions. Whether it is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ Christian(Christian Identity), who says that the "mud people" will not enter the Kindom of Heaven, or a Fundie Preacher saying the same thing about Homosexuals, and both for unbelievers in their particular brand of Christianity. Its quite different to say simply "I believe differently than you do." than saying "Your going to HELL!!!!!". One is offensive, and usually hate is a factor of it, and one is not, choose which is which.

[LoZoccolo]

51. I did it to make it fit with Calvinism...

...and not with Christian Identity. I had a friend who was a Calvinist growing up, who would criticize my Catholicism, and yet I didn't waste too much time wondering if he hated me or thinking of how much disrespect I should be allowed to heap on him.

[Solon]

55. If I had a friend like that, it wouldn't have lasted long....

I would have dropped him like a bad habit, but that's just me. The problem is reciprical respect as human beings, the rest is just window dressing. He didn't have to respect you beliefs, or believe they are true, etc. etc. However, he should have shown enough respect for you that if you said you don't want to hear it, he would shut up about it. If he egged you on about your religion constantly, he lacked the respect in you as a human being. That to me seems intolerable, those types of people are assholes, plain and simple.

[LoZoccolo]

61. Not constantly, no.

I guess I'm not as sensitive as that.

Plus I can see he did it out of concern anyways. To me, that was a way I tried to show respect - trying to figure out why someone does something and not ascribing the worst possible motives to them and calling the actions of one of the friendliest people I've ever known "window dressing". It's what I would want, and that's pretty much what respect is as far as I can see it. It's not about me and asserting myself. And that's what we need to do here, seeing as we're all for pretty common goals bigger than ourselves.

[Solon]

66. Maybe I should have termed it politeness...

but then again maybe not. Actions do speak louder than words, however words themselves have power. Motive doesn't really matter if the guy wasn't polite about it, and was an asshole. Its one thing to critisize perhaps the position of the Church on Abortion or BC, and quite another to call you a "Mary Worshipper" or some other such nonsense. Presentation is important, and to be honest, I've had my fill of prostelysing to last a lifetime, so my level of tolerance is quite low. This is part of the problem right here on DU, many Christians, particularly Catholics, take offense when a particular position of the leadership of the church is critisized. This I view as fair game, however, slamming the laity as let's say "Idol worshippers" or "Mary worshippers" is just rude.

[HEyHEY]

27. Why should I feel good towards someone who's beliefs

Consider me a lesser being and condem me to an eternity of smoke and fire?

[LoZoccolo]

30. That's why we should bomb the fuck out of the Iraqis and not care about it

Right?

_{NOTE: This post is sarcastic.}

[HEyHEY]

31. Well, that would be more than a lack of respect

[LoZoccolo]

41. What do you mean?

Lack of respect for human rights, no?

So how much lack of respect does someone deserve, according to you? Can we feel free to impose it on the Shiite and Sunni Iraqis? Why are we wasting our resources respecting them when they say we're gonna burn in hell?

[HEyHEY]

80. You think bombing and killing is just "lack of respect"?

I think it's worse

[LoZoccolo]

82. You didn't answer my question.

Yes, I think it's a severe lack of respect, but still one.

So answer my question already, please. Also answer the one about what good it will do DU or it's general purpose any good with through your measured disrepect as well.

[HEyHEY]

93. Your second question is just plain a waste of time

The answer to the first is, I'm not going to waste my time caring about if I disrespect thoughs who disrespect me.

[LoZoccolo]

109. No it ain't.

It's what people have been arguing about for a couple days.

Certainly if you're going to start a thread to announce a policy of disrespect, it's not completely out-there to ask the manner and purpose of it, no?

[HEyHEY]

114. WHEN DID YOU ASK THE MANNER AN PURPOSE?

You asked me a bunch of shit about Iraq.

[LoZoccolo]

116. Here.

#41: So how much lack of respect does someone deserve, according to you?

#82: Also answer the one about what good it will do DU or it's general purpose any good with through your measured disrepect as well.

OK, OK, I was tired-out right before I left from work when I wrote the second one, but I think you know what I'm asking now.

I just don't get how you're going to implement this program of disrespect, or what it's designed to do, or even how it's supposed to get you what you want. I know what it'll do to DU (as we've been seeing); I just don't understand what good you think it does you or us as a group.

[HEyHEY]

94. Hey, anyone I don't give a shit what their race - if they tell me I'm gonn

a burn, I feel the same..

Why the fuck are you turing this into an Iraq issue with me? Nothing better to do?

[LoZoccolo]

108. Ha I guess I don't have much more to say.

Hoooo-boy.

Sure you don't wanna answer the question?

[HEyHEY]

112. I've answered your question, you just aren't happy with the answer

Get over it

[LoZoccolo]

117. In #114, you tell me I didn't even ask you the question.

So how do you know that I'm just not happy with the answer? I'm so confused!

[HEyHEY]

129. Knock it off with the mental masturbation

I'm tired dammit

[LoZoccolo]

131. I am too.

I've made my point, and you've made my point, so let's call it off.

[DrDebug]

19. I'm not a Christian, but overall the Bible's answer is No

Judaism. There were about 24 Jewish groups in first century Palestine who held a wide spectrum of incompatible beliefs. Of these, the Essenes, Pharisees and Sadducees were the largest.

St. Paul's writings; 48 to 65 CE. The few "saved" Christians -- those who believe in Jesus' resurrection -- will go to heaven. There is no Hell; non- believers simply die and cease to exist.

Author of Gospel of Mark: Circa 70 CE Heaven is for those who do good deeds. Hell exists as a place of eternal torment with fire and worms for those who are insensitive to the needs of others.

Author of Gospel of Matthew: 80-85 CE. Heaven is for those who do good deeds. The torments of Hell are emphasized for those who do not do good deeds.

Author of II Thessalonians: 75-90 CE. All the unsaved will be killed when Jesus returns.

Author of the Gospel of Luke: 85-95 CE. Heaven is for those who do good deeds. Hell exist as a place of torment with heat and thirst.

Author of Revelation: 93 CE? Evil people are thrown into a lake of fire and annihilated. Some are eternally punished.

Author(s) of Gospel of John: circa 100 CE. Heaven is for those who believe in Jesus' divinity. Hell does not exist.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/aft_bibl3.htm

The general opinion about Heaven and Hell is based on your deeds first and foremost

[liberalhistorian]

21. I'm a Christian, but I've certainly

never believed that those who believed differently were going to hell. If that were true, hell would be so crowded there'd be no room for the hellfire and brimstone!

[forgethell]

25. Here's the thing.

Why do you care whether I think you're going to burn in Hell or not?? Only if I'm trying to send you there prematurely do you have a legitimate beef. Otherwise, it's just an opinion. Everybody's got one. Yours is no better than mine, unless you want to have a debate of the subjects of if there a God? If so, does he take an interest in us personally? If so, does he have standards he wants us to meet?, etc. and if not, how do we tell right from wrong? Is there such a thing as right or wrong? If there is not, what's the problem with Hitler?, etc.

[Feathered Fish]

26. You get to go wherever you want

Wherever you think you are going to end up, that's where you'll go. If you worship turds, you may very well end up in a ethereal toilet bowl for the rest of eternity.

[opusprime]

28. Other than word of mouth...

I can't find any proof that hell actually exists.

Pretty much the same with ghosts, Santa Claus, the boogieman, the Jersey Devil, and girls that want a threesome.

[Arugula Latte]

53. ...and the liberal media!

LOL

[Arugula Latte]

54. P.S. Welcome to DU opusprime!

:hi: :toast:

[opusprime]

88. thanks O...

great to be here...

[The Stranger]

29. "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints,

the sinners have much more fun . . . "

[Wizard777]

38. They should do quite well in the Apocalypse.

Unlike the Religious Conservatives they will not be deceived by the Antichrist. I don't think they would want the second coming so badly if they fully understood that the real Christ will be the guy with the flaming sword wanting to kill them all for standing against him.

[Rainbowreflect]

39. I attempt to be a Christian & one of my greatest beliefs is that

I have no right to judge others. If there is a hell & that is a big if, God will judge.
I tend to think hell is what we create.

[tubbacheez]

42. The concepts of "hell" and "burning" within in it need better definition.

I for one have always thought it odd that SPIRITUALLY negative consequences have been portrayed the PHYSICALLY painful experience of burning up in some stereotypical lava shaft for all eternity.


Many, many Biblical descriptions were figurative or metaphorical. How come so many people (of so many faiths) have gotten fixated on taking this one so literally?

[understandinglife]

43. I'll let you know when I get there .......

www.missionnotaccomplished.us (The.Day.WE.BEGIN...........)

[moobu2]

44. If heaven is full of folks like Jerry falwell, Pat Robertson and G.W. etc

I wouldn't really want to go there anyway..

[Spangle]

45. Depends on their Religan

Only a couple of groups believe in Heaven/Hell.

But I have a feeling that you are talking about Christian Religious persons. In that case, if they believe in their own religian, they theye believe not only non-believers are going to hell, but also those who are not saved by Jesus.

They don't feel like they are sending anyone to Heaven or Hell. They believe GOD decideds that. So they feel innocent in their comments, etc. They think they are WARNING people of what is going to happen. But in reality, they are themselfs judging people just by their statements.

As far as I can tell, only Christians feel the need to "spread the word" about their faith. Others tend to SHOW their faith. Christians do not consider actions to count towards going to heaven. But it does count towards going to hell. If a FELLOW Christian calls them out on their error, then they will seek forgiveness and that is suppose to "cleanse" the error. But only CHRISTIANS get this forgiveness. And I'm not talking about forgiveness from God, but with their fellow humans. This is why they will forgive each others sins, but not others. If they don't like a fellow Christian, then they excuse their own unforgiveness by claiming the person isn't a real Christian, etc...

It's a case of wanting to point out others mistakes, but their own is not to be discussed.

Before anyone flames me, I'm a Christian and this issue bothers me greatly.

[scarlet_owl]

52. My religious ed teacher explained it like this:

As Christians, we may not judge who is going to hell and who isn't because we can't know God's mind. She went on to explain that we don't really know if hell exists or not, and we shouldn't base our religious life on avoiding it, but rather coming in closer communion with the Lord. So I don't split the world into two camps of hell-bound and saved. I think that is totally immoral. My faith has called me to love my fellow person, not just my fellow Christian.

I'm Catholic, by the way.

[Kathryn7]

56. That's what I was taught too as a Catholic.

[recoveringrepublican]

59. I was raised Lutheran and agree with you nt

[recoveringrepublican]

57. I'll probably get flamed from other Christians

but I believe it depends on how they live their life. The Bible says that through faith you will be saved, but faith without works is useless (my interpretation). I try not to judge other Christians level of faith, but I wonder if one truly has Faith without good works, or if they are just saying they believe Christ is their Savior but don't really mean it.

I've met too many atheists and non-Christians who live their life in complete service to others. They put me to shame. I have a hard time believing that Christ will look at all they did, living their life as close to how Christ would, and damn them to hell. These people that I have met live such selfless lives I just can't believe that. If that sends me to hell, then so be it. And yes I've been told that this belief will send me to hell. sigh....

[frictionlessO]

97. Hey thanks! That was totally beautiful and as far as I can tell either

completely Christ like or very christian of you.:-)
I've met and have known some very selfless and compassionate Christians in my life who have put me to shame as well.

People of love, compassion, empathy and peace need to unite and travel outside of our social and cultural boundaries. The things that people give power to are not beholden to said power rather that power is beholden unto them... or some such thing.

[Discord]

58. I wonder why the 17 that voted we would haven't posted

any comments...

hmmmm


:shrug:

[Maru Kitteh]

101. Mostly because those votes were probably cast by visiting freepers and

a few others motivated by a strong desire to make the faithful of DU look bad.

[youthere]

62. I don't believe in Hell eom

[Greylyn58]

63. I vote no and here's why

While almost all religions have their version or concept of Hell, I have to say, who here can state unequivocally their brand of religion is the true one.

Christians for the most part believe as they were taught, unless they wisely did some seeking outside of that concept. Same is true for all other religions, but not one of us who believe can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their particular brand of religion is the true one.

And really that's what is comes down to, whose concept is the correct one. Every religion was the creation and concept of MAN!! All the different versions or flavors of religion came from the mind of someone who felt that someone else's way of worship was wrong.

I personally, was raised in the Assoc. Reformed Presbyterian church. They broke from the Presbyterian church over church doctrine. So as I stated, why should my version be correct and their's wrong.

[WillowTree]

65. It's not in my job description to judge others.

I have all I can do to look after myself.

[AlienGirl]

67. In my belief, no--at worst, Florida or Texas

Really bad people get re-born in Florida, or sometimes Texas. But eventually, they, too can redeem themselves and escape their torment!

Tucker

[DemBones DemBones]

72. Catholics do not believe the nonreligious are going to Hell

automatically nor that Catholics are going to Heaven automatically. It depends on the lives people lead and their final acceptance or rejection of God when they meet Him after death, not to mention whether or not our concepts of Hell have any relationship to reality. The concept of Hell expressed by many Christians today has nothing to do with fire and brimstone but with being isolated from the glory of God.

There are surely some religious people who believe that those not members of their particular church are going to Hell -- and that's an unfortunate perversion of Christian theology, or any other theology that I know of -- but I'd be surprised if you found any people who hold such a belief posting at DU except as disruptors.

[Solly Mack]

73. sing-song "I'm going to hell. I'm going to hell" sing-song

Gimme a H
Gimme an E
Gimme an L
Gimme an L

What's that Spell?

!!!!!PARTY!!!!!

[Bluebear]

75. Go to heaven for the food....

but go to hell for the company!

[Solly Mack]

77. ahhh...the best of both worlds!

[Zynx]

76. No. It is deeds that determines it.

[flaminbats]

78. my view of heaven and hell is simple..

Life is heaven and death is hell. We all live in heaven, and we are all damned to hell..but no one is selectively saved or doomed.

[otohara]

79. I Will Be Cremated

then burn again in hell? Seems highly unlikely

[hunter]

81. Ummmm, look around, HEyHEY, where do you think you are?

Sorry to burst your bubbles everyone, but the Rapture already happened. You missed the train, the boat has sailed, and you have been left driving a crummy old car some "Chosen" person used to drive to church every Sunday. Hell, that nice used car salesman you bought your car from got it for FREE, God Damn him!

All the rest of us religious folks are merely hanging on hoping that God will go in for a second round, especially once He notices how the fish He got in His first big netting are so BORING.

(Ooops, better be quiet. I have a bad feeling of deja-vu about this post.)

[KittyWampus]

83. They're Already In A Hell Of Their Own Making. Believing The Universe

is purely random means, if being intellectually consistent, you are perpetually a victim of circumstance.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. Or a saint of circumstance. What are you if you are the pawn of

some invisible power-wielder in the sky, and how is that preferable?

Read up on your quantum mechanics-- certainly it can imply a universe where the act of observation is intrinsic to what we consider "reality". That, to me, spells being in the driver's seat-- which is hardly being a "victim"--- and it's not a position of having to kow-tow to invisible sky-men, either.

[KittyWampus]

106. "Saint Of Circumstance" Is Really Poetic... I Just Googled It & Found It's

a Bob Weir song and how I didn't know that is curious indeed.

But I don't believe in a puppeteer in the sky either.

:)

IMO, we are all in control of our lives... it just takes us time to become fully aware of all the possiblities.

Now I must find a clip from that Weir song.

[Warren DeMontague]

118. It's a great tune.... Of course, I'm a Deadhead, so I'm biased.

And all the Grateful Dead you could ever want can be found at

http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-browse.php

You can also find lots of Ratdog and other Weir stuff at

http://furthurnet.org

They're all about 100% legal peer-to-peer, and a good community as well.

:hippie:

FWIW: In my opinion, neither belief in a diety nor atheism "has to" be any one sort of way of looking at things- I chuckle at people who think Atheists are incapable of having moral ethics or seeing the universe as anything beyond a hollow, meaningless, material cipher- and I hope I am not so blind as to assume all religious people, or all "Christians" are right-wing dogmatists. I respect everyone's personal beliefs, I just don't personally feel that one needs to believe in "God" to be happy, or complete. Peace.

[Zenlitened]

115. Yes, perhaps that's true...

... for a hydrogen atom.

:eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

125. LOL

No! Don't you see! Either there is a God of creation and purpose, or we are all hydrogen atoms. Never mind that messy consciousness thing as a physical phenomenon: it's either God or absolute mechanism!!!!

(Will the stupidities never cease emerging? ;-))

[alcibiades_mystery]

124. Bullshit

Believing in human agency does not require belief in divine creation or guidance.

That's just fucking stupid. It's completely consistent to say that consciousness and purposefulness emerge out of contingent encounters and forces.

Besides, not believing in divine creation or guidance does not mean belieivng in "pure randomness" (whatever that's supposed to mean). One can very easily believe that forces cohere into patterns that are not at all random, despite being contingent on their mutual immanent relations rather than some outside transcendent agency or entity.

Before you start yabbering about "intellectual consistency," you might try deploying your own intellect.

[beam me up scottie]

127. Hi alcibiades!

Welcome to DU!
:applause:
:yourock:
:toast:

[KittyWampus]

151. Nowhere In My Post Did I Suggest A "Divine Creation". Your Post Spotlights

your own preconcieved notions and biases and lack of comprehension.

[Rikimaru]

84. I think

The difference betyween Leftees & Rightees shows up in religion- personally I think God is cooler than that to send a non-believer to Hell, but I believe in an inclusive God. A Rightee is more prone to want religion to confirm their status in an exclusivegroup. They are religious so they can gloat over all of us hellbound sods.

[Abelman]

85. It's not my place to say

If there is a Hell, which I'm not really to sold on, then it's not my place to say who goes or who doesn't. I refuse to entertain the notion I can make that choice.

[ObaMania]

86. No, we're all in hell now. n/t

[CJCRANE]

87. Hell no!

oops, I'm non-religious so I 'm gonna vote yes as well to balance out.

on edit: can't vote again, prob just as well.

[Horse with no Name]

89. If you don't believe in Heaven or Hell..then you can't go there

This is my theory that I came up with and not so certain I don't believe it.
Hell is actually where we live now, Revelations has already happened.
I theorized that "Earth" was actually when Jesus walked with the men. It was corrupted with greed and evil and we were all condemned to hell, thus this is what we live.
God already judged us. The Bible is merely a historical book of what has already happened--not as a prophesy of what will happen.
Then when you die while you exist in Hell, you have an opportunity to redeem yourself by the good things you were able to do in such and evil and wicked place with the glutony and excess that is available.
Then, if you were successful, you will go on to the riches in Heaven. If you were deemed not to be worthy of the riches, then you just will cease to exist.
This is how I justified that good people died young...they died when they proved to God their goodness and purity of heart and he took them home.
Anywayss...I wrote a paper on this in College...I put quite a bit of thought in it at one time.:)

[DARE to HOPE]

95. You might want to read "Descent Into Death" by Howard Storm...

It is his account of his own, at first negative, NDE (Near Death Experience.) Ann Rice, of all people, introduced this book!

God is LOVE, dear folks. Love that is stronger than death, even.

[Walt Starr]

96. I'm religious, but I can't vote

Everybody goes to Summerland regardless.

[HEyHEY]

98. Yeah, I'm sure even Jesus jerked off sometimes

[Walt Starr]

99. Summerland is the afterlife in my tradition of Wicca

Everybody goes to Summerland to contemplate the lessons learned in this life before choosing the next life so they may learn those lessons that have not been undertaken or completed yet.

[patrice]

140. Good News!! Thanks. I tend to think it IS all about real learning. n/t

[Raenelle]

100. Favorite Hindu line--Congratulations in advance. We're all saved.

[thecai]

102. It's Not My Place To Judge

I'm Christian, (but not "religous"), and I cannot judge lest I be judged with the same measure I mete... We all work out our OWN salvation with our Maker.
Some "religous" posters may easily get offended because from what I've seen, some posters "attack the messenger", rather than the message.

[nemo137]

130. Exactly - I am not God, and can't judge that.

We're judged, I have to believe, on our own merits, not on labels.

[thecai]

134. Right!

...although many people confuse "knowing them by their fruits..." as "judging".

[lala_rawraw]

103. You mean we are not in hell now? n/t

[Beware the Beast Man]

105. My truly religious answer- I don't know.

No one truly knows. It's all about faith.

[LSdemocrat]

107. I'm religious - I honestly don't know who is going to heaven

I don't know if I'm going to heaven.

[Blue Moon]

110. Interesting question

If you believe that heaven is where you reside with God, hell would be a state where God is absent. If you don't believe in God, then de facto, you will end up in a state where you don't commune with God. Is that therefore hell? Hmmmmm. Very difficult question to contemplate.

[sexybomber]

113. Uh...

Consider this:

1. Religions all say that nonbelievers will go to hell.
2. There is more than one religion.

Therefore...

3. Everyone is going to hell.

Either that, or the argument is flawed, and no one is going to hell.

[Sapphire Blue]

119. It's getting to feel more & more like we're already there

[alcibiades_mystery]

121. To the despicable 29%: You are not good people, but nasty

self-righteous shitbags.

Seriously. Resentful little worms, all of ya.

[donheld]

122. We are in hell now

there's no going about it

[baldguy]

123. God couldn't care less what you believe.

The Almighty isn't a whining co-dependent child pining for attention from pathetic simpering sycophantic sheep who worship every fiber of His Being.

He's looking for people to make the world a better place.

[imenja]

126. what a strange question

Why would someone who is not religious even worry about hell. Non-theists believe when their body dies, that's it. So why on earth do you care?

As for my beliefs are that none of us can determine such a thing. It is for us to lead a life based on compassion and good works and trust in God's grace.

[Trajan]

147. Non religious wouldnt care ...

if their very lives werent threatened by fanatical belief ...

And they are ...

[SnoopDog]

128. Religion and Hell are 'man made''

No one really knows what happens after you die..

I think that after you die you.... Oh, well, since there is no real way of knowing - I don't know what happens!

Neither do you...

[lonestarnot]

133. Dante's Inferno?

[Warren DeMontague]

132. Yes, In A Bucket.

But At Least I'm Enjoyin' The Ride!

[Is It Fascism Yet]

135. It's the other way around, hell is reserved soley for believers. n/t

[Jamastiene]

136. Yep,

in a hand basket right here on earth. We don't even have to wait until we die. We are are currently living through Bush Part 2. Or should we count it as Part 1 and a half, because the current nazi shithead white house resident is a halfwit? Need I say more?

I'm a nonbeliever/well maybe there is a God, but I don't know type. Agnostic, I believe it is called. I did read the Bible a long time ago and it said something about God being the judge and not to judge others so... I just thought I would add something to try to keep the tone humorous. :P

[Fescue4u]

137. I don't know.

My belief is in a creator and afterlife is strong, but not so much of a
hell where you are punished for non belief.

If there is a Hell (in the classic sense of fire and brimstone), I don't believe it is intended for folks who live a basically good life, but don't believe. But rather evil folks who deserve punishment

Essentially, I believe in a creator, and an afterlife, but not so much a hot place called hell. If there is a Hell, I suspect its something alog the lines of being forced to live on Earth again etc etc.

[BonjourUSA]

138. "The last converts will be the first welcomed into the Lord kingdom"

I'm gonna try to be the very last as long as possible. :)

[noonwitch]

139. I believe in God, but not in hell or Satan

We all get to go to heaven or join the light when we die. Except ghosts, for some reason.

[Zhade]

141. Fascinating results. That 30% can't all be Freepers.

NT!

[FreedomAngel82]

144. You need a third answer

"I don't know." It's not my place to tell someone they're going to hell.

[Kingofalldems]

148. If one follows their conscience they're in

At least that what I was taught in Catholic school. They may have to do some time in purgatory though.

[bush_is_wacko]

149. NOPE! God doesn't distinguish between believers and non believers

in my interpretation of the Bible. He ONLY distinguishes between good and bad. I know MANY non-believers who will probably get there LONG before me. I need to work on a few bad habits...Like turning the other cheek! Do you suppose if I presented my butt cheek to a few Fundies, God would consider it?

[allemand]

150. Nice honey pot.

;-)

[Blue Diadem]

152. It's not up to me to judge where anyone should go after they die. n/t

[onenote]

153. okay, HeyHey, now what?

The results of your poll indicate that an overwhelming majority of "religious DUers" don't think you're going to hell because you don't have their same beliefs. In fact, from the posts, its clear that a lot of "religious DUer" (which includes DUers who view themsleves as people of faith and/or with a religious identity), don't even believe in hell.

So now what? Are you now going to "feel bad about it" when religious DUers complain that they are not treated with respect or does this not change a thing?

onenote

[HEyHEY]

156. I'd say it two things are revealed

For starters, the poll was fucked with, AND there are a FEW religious DUers who think I'm going to hell.

I guess I can remain being civil to religious duers.

[Kerrytravelers]

154. I don't think an annoynmous poll is the best way to find the opinion of

Jeudo-Christian religious Duers. Anyone can vote anything. A written respoionse would be the best. THat way, no one would be annoynmous. Also, if someone has only a few posts, yet comes on here, Bible thumping... well, you can pretty much guess. Don't bother engaging with them, because they are capable of educated debate, only standing behind the likes of Frist and Dobson and screaming about issues they aren't educated in.

I voted no. I'm a Catholic.

[ellenfl]

157. who cares?! the recipient of the action has to believe in

heaven or hell for anyone's wish/condemnation to mean anything. i prefer to enjoy my 'heaven' while living, thanks.

this isn't flamebait as much as meanlingless.

ellen fl

[Skittles]

160. pretty sad that over a quarter of respondees think something so stupid

very sad indeed - I hoping this thread drew pathetic trolls out of the woodwork

[BornLeft]

162. Hell. Global warming.

It's all pretty much he same thing. So see ya in hell.

[LynneSin]

163. I think more "non-believers" show the faith and practice of Jesus....

...than these right-wing nutjob fundies do.

There are 2 philosphies about Christianities.

The progressive version is centered around works: Jesus came to earth and did good works especially with the poor & downtrodden. I know many non-believers practice this every day every day even though they don't necessarily believe in Jesus. If you give of your time and self to help others, then you're doing the same good works that Jesus did. I mean, even Ghandi qualifies in this catergory and he was Hindu.

The fundies believe in faith alone. Personally they think what good is doing good works if you're not also converting everyone you've done good works for into Christians. In fact some fundies feel that Jesus did all the good works & died for us so really, why should we bother with good works - we need to up the head count on the number of Christians. So basically, if you're not born-again and out there converting the heathens then pretty much you rot in hell.

I am a Christian and personally I think God has blessed me in the fact that I am healthy, I have a good job and blessed with a wonderful family. Because of my good fortunes, I try to find ways to reach back to the community and help others who maybe haven't had such good fortunes in hopes that one day they too can be as blessed as I am. For all I know, I'm taking a crap shoot and my method of Christianity could land me in hell. But if that hell is devoid of the ilks like Falwell, RObertson, Ashcroft, Bush, Frist, etc - then I don't care how hot it is, because my true hell would be in a place with all of them!