When it comes to women's sexuality,the religious rightwingers here

[KlatooBNikto]

are in the same wavelength as the Muslim fundamentalists. Neither of them would let women control their own lives or bodies.Wonder if there is a common fear of women and their sexuality among these extremists.

[tanyev]

1. Muslim fundamentalism and Christian fundamentalism

are just flip sides of the same coin.

[Pacifist Patriot]

3. Oh I don't even think you have to flip the coin.

[libhill]

4. A fundie by any other name

is still a fundie. And religion, not money, is the root of all evil.

[Kerrytravelers]

6. Fundies with money is the root of all evil.

[libhill]

8. Well, praise the Lard

and send me a thousand dollar donation. Jaysus Chrast wants you to fill your heart, and my wallet.

[Pacifist Patriot]

2. The psychology of gender oppression is fascinating.

I have no idea where it comes from, but it has certainly been around for a long long time. In the process of looking into some legislation going through the Florida legislature, I stumbled across a bill called "the woman's health initiative." You guessed it. It had absolutely nothing to do with women's health in general and everything to do with controlling reproduction.

I wonder if it has to do with maternity identity being guaranteed while paternity is hidden. Yikes, now that is something to fear in a patriarchal society, eh? What chaps my hide is how many women have bought into the idea that it is okay to devalue women relative to men. *shudder*

[Catt03]

10. This makes me angry and revengeful

What chaps my hide is how many women have bought into the idea that it is okay to devalue women relative to men. *shudder*

With Bush's initiatives and law controlling women in all aspects of their lives and with the Popes declaration that women be return to the role they were biological created for; with the right inserting God and damnation into every human feeling; with the conscious clause gathering steam, women can now comfortably return to their primary function, adulation of men.

And I say good. They voted and squeal for these masochists in office; Santorum, DeLay, Bush, Cheney, Schwarzenegger, Thune, Colburn, Frist....now they can reap the rewards.

Welcome to the 19th Century women of America and have a wonderful life.

:woohoo:

[China_cat]

11. You got it.

I wonder if it has to do with maternity identity being guaranteed while paternity is hidden.

A woman KNOWS a baby is hers, a man can only hope.

That's part of it. It goes back also to the days when the link between sex and pregnancy was not realized. Women had this 'mysterious' power...the ability to create life. And that's a powerful thing to contemplate.

[Jade Fox]

5. Its the fundamentalism, not the religion....

as a friend of mine said, the fundamentalist wing of ALL religions are
people you want to avoid.

[noamnety]

7. My view

The religious right are overly concerned with sex/lust, and afraid of not being able to control their own urges. Thus anything that encourages their sexual urges is viewed as a threat, and is inherently bad - rather than them viewing their own lack of self-control as bad. This fits with the crazy amount of right wingers that are concerned with gays ruining straight marriages (while they are out having secret gay affairs, committing adultery, or molesting children).

It's a matter of not being able to live up to their own moral standards, and passing responsibility from themselves to whatever outside societal causes they can find to blame.

I think I used this analogy before on the board, but if someone leaves a pack of cigarettes on a table, I won't be tempted to take one, because I don't have any desire to smoke, I can't stand the smell. But someone who has quit smoking has supressed urges, and will see them as a temptation. A normal person in that situation will see themselves as having a lack of willpower. A slightly deranged person will personify the cigarettes, seeing them as an evil temptation put there to lead them from goodness into evil - the cigarettes become an instrument of satan.

Going back to your point, a normal person will see what a woman does with her own life/body as something that only affects her, or her partners. If an attractive woman walks by, they might think "hmmm, she's cute" and might even fantasize a bit about her. A fundie will look at the woman (or a homosexual) as being a potential instrument of the devil because they brought out "bad" thoughts in them, and so their (the woman's) behavior needs to change.

[KlatooBNikto]

9. Our culture indoctrinates us to view Sex as dirty or sinful instead of

the life affirming process it should be viewed as. This is a barrier that religion wants to preserve at all costs because, in my view, religion is all about controlling the minds and bodies of people with imagined terrors.

[LdyGuique]

12. This is a fairly apt analogy, one that I'd agree with

If one goes back to prehistory times, back before there was a written language, back before the Bible was written, there is ample evidence that there was a matriarchal religious period. The rise of patriarchal religions gave rise to anti-feminine dogma. Eve was created as the prototypical female who would break the rules and beguile men with deceit. Men created religions that would control women and marginalize them in all aspects of life, make them second class beings. Generally, when one wants to wrest power away from a group, it's an acknowledgment that they do in fact HAVE great power.

The rise of feminism and the demand for the ERA really freaked out the fundies and traditionalists in the U.S. I still remember much of the rhetoric of ordinary people from the 60s and 70s as feminism became a political force. From what I read, it was even worse when women were agitating for voting rights. Many men couldn't see the concept idea that if women were to become equal under in social, business, and political institutions that it would free them from patriarchal responsibilities. All they could see was that they would lose control, control that was fear-based.

The battle of the sexes is an old, old paradigm and is reflected throughout the entire Judaic/Christian/Muslem traditions in written form -- the "word of god" form. These same anti-women traditions are prevalent throughout the Indian and Asian traditions, but were not nearly as codified as a religious mechanism, but more as a social one.

Men really do fear women and their emotional and sexual control. Hence, the constant rape and pillage mentality that has pervaded the history of men vs women. During my lifetime, I've noticed an increase in women who have refused to marry or divorced, never to marry again.

This changing dynamics of sexual relations has caused a change in families as we know them and hasn't been entirely healthy for society. Too many children have been raised in single-parent households with a rising level of poverty. Although, I've also seen a huge change in how many men have become more involved in child-rearing activities. While I was growing up in the 50s, I can remember no father being active in their children's activities, growth, and development. This has changed for many. So, maybe, headway is being made, albeit slowly.

But, I also see an increase in fundiness -- partially, because the moderate traditional family roles have changed.

[smirkymonkey]

13. Where does the need to control and dominate women originate?

It seems to be a function of fear, as well as the desire to control reproduction.

What is the fear, and therefore the hatred, really about? Anybody know?

[cry baby]

14. The fundies men are afraid of the power that a woman's sexuality

gives her. I believe everyone would agree that sexuality is very, very powerful in the hands of a woman. It's a power they can't resist, it makes them feel helpless and powerless.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. "..sex is the most, awful, filthy thing on earth.."

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves
you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love." Butch Hancock

Pretty well sums it up.