Lawsuit over Florida cops handcuffing 5 year old girl in a classroom

[panzerfaust]

It took three of them, but they managed to overpower her. Apparently the slickly carried out 'mission' was captured on video.

The New Order is sooo compassionate.

Sorry, forgot that "New Order" was already taken. Let's just call it the "New America". The New America is ...

God Bless Florida, and its Brave Officers of THE Law.

[cestpaspossible]

1. Power corrupts

I don't think there is a more stark example of the corrupting influence of power than this incident.

[wakeme2008]

6. You did not watch the video

the teachers were GREAT and the Police were GREAT....

[magnussun]

25. You are right

I agree.

The parent is to blame. She probably has a problem with authority herself and taught that to her child. Lets look at the parents (oh, where's dad?) instead of always attacking society for spawning little demonic monster kids.

What option did the school have? They called the mom. Had they tried to keep restraining the child themselves, they would have a lawsuit. It is pretty bad when discipline breaks down like this. People don't realize how much more kids disrespect authority now than they did in my parent's' day.

Sorry, but I blame extreme liberalism and tolerance for brat behavior and the state of kids today. The mentality that dads and discipline are not necessary is bullshit. Utter bullshit. Had I pulled something like this when i was a kid, I would have gotten my hyde tanned instead of mom reinforcing this behavior by blaming someone else. This girl will now learn that she is not accountable for her own actions because of an irresponsible mom.

M

M

[magnussun]

24. Kids are out of control

Incidentally, teachers have no disciplinary options anymore.

If the child had not been restrained, she could have hurt herself or others. And if the school had tried to restrain the violent child, there would have been a lawsuit.

M

[Unions]

28. Bahahaha

"could have hurt others"

If you can't hold your own versus a 5 year old something is very, very wrong.

I wonder if this is what the cops were thinking. Probably shaking in their boots wondering how the scary 5 year old was going to hurt them.

It's people like this "Oh no the 5 year old is going to hurt full grown adults!" who blow shit out of proportion that the situation escalated to begin with.

Then again maybe picking on 5 year olds makes one of those cops feel like a big man.

[magnussun]

40. Adults have no options these days

"If you can't hold your own versus a 5 year old something is very, very wrong."

Oh, adults can hold their own, but they would be arrested for spanking her, or sued for restraining her. So what do you do after hugging, talking and trying every other way to calm her. I can say from experience that few options will work when the child is this much of an incorrigible brat.

M

[Unions]

45. You dodge the point

a five year old is NO THREAT to an adult. You don't need do to anything. There was no need to cuff her as she couldn't do a damn thing cuffed or not.

[DoNotRefill]

49. Define "threat"...

My 9 month old drew blood from me today. She's also blackened my eye. And this was UNINTENTIONAL behavior!!!

[indepat]

50. Absolute power absolutely corrupts absolutely

[patricia92243]

2. WHAT are you talking about? I don't watch the news. Why on earth would a

five year old be handcuffed? Did she have a gun or something?

[halobeam]

3. see this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1413513&mesg_id=1413513

[Journeyman]

4. Anybody have any idea what the rationale for this was? . . .

I read a couple of articles yesterday, and saw a short piece on a local news program, but nowhere did I find what the rationale was for such a blatantly provocative and quite contrary act by the police.

Does the little girl have a history of violent behavior? Were the police in fear for the safety of other children in the room? Does the little girl possess superhuman powers so she can fly through the air, bend steel with her bare hands, and toss classroom erasers like rocket-propelled grenades?

I can't imagine any scenario that justifies such idiotic behavior by the adults in that classroom. What I'm trying to do though is to get a grip on why any thinking, semi-compassionate adult would believe shouting at a child and restraining her in handcuffs is a better approach than holding her in a bearhug and whispering soothing words.

The little girl is obviously traumatized by this. But what about her classmates? How will they react in the future when faced with voices that urge them to respect the police, while other influences tell them the police have no regard for them at all? Who will they believe? And who could blame them?

[jmowreader]

23. The child was cuffed in the principal's office

I watched both of those videos. Her classmates never saw the cops. They somehow got this out-of-control child (who trashed the classroom, trashed the principal's office, climbed on a table four times, and repeatedly struck the principal) to the principal's office.

When the cops showed up, one of them said "you remember me, don't you?" to the kid. Apparently there's a history of them showing up over her.

And trust me: holding her in a bearhug and whispering soothing words to her would have gotten the principal kicked in the shins.

Back in the bad old days, children could be taken into custody, charged, convicted and put on probation for things like this. They would have hauled her little ass into court (along with her parent/s), given her 6 months probation, and it would have squared her shit away. (This is why juvenile records are expunged on your 18th birthday.) Now you have to murder someone to get into the system.

This could be a good thing. Now they have a credible threat to use against her: "If I call the police you'll be handcuffed and taken away in a police car. Do you want that to happen?"

[brettdale]

51. she had clamed down

The problem I have with it, was when the cops came, she had calmed down, there was no reason to handcuff her at all.

WHAT WOULD THE MEDIA BE SAYING IF THIS HAD OF BEEN A NORTH KOREAN SCHOOL AND THE COPS HANDCUFF A FIVE YEAR OLD, OR A SCHOOL IN FRANCE AND THE COPS HANDCUFF A FIVE YEAR. OR ANY SCHOOL FROM ANY COUNTRY THAT DIDNT SUPPORT THE WAR IN IRAQ, CERTAIN JOURNOS WOULD BE GOING NUTS AT THE MOMENT.

[magnussun]

26. Liberals have ruined kids

"I can't imagine any scenario that justifies such idiotic behavior by the adults in that classroom. What I'm trying to do though is to get a grip on why any thinking, semi-compassionate adult would believe shouting at a child and restraining her in handcuffs is a better approach than holding her in a bearhug and whispering soothing words."

The teacher tried that, and everything else, and it's ON THE TAPE! Wake up! Our children are out of control because liberals have decided that discipline is no longer required in the home. It's ok now to kick and punch teachers, without real consequence. Just "give em a hug." Give ME a break! I know this as a former pre-K teacher who has been in this situation many times. Teachers no longer have any disciplinary options, many schools have outlawed time-outs and restraining violent children. And yes, a 5 year old can hurt herself and others when in this state. So in order to avoid lawsuits, they have to call the cops, apparantly.

M

[OKNancy]

43. Well I'm a former teacher and still

teach in a private school, and it's not the liberal parents attitudes that cause the problems.

[wakeme2008]

5. IF you had watched the video on the St. Pete Times site

this BRAT got what she was asking for. And you would have heard the female officer say "I told you LAST time if you did this again you would be cuffed...."

The brain dead attorney release both videos to the St. Pete Times and most people have no problem with what happened to the girl after seeing the videos.

[Unions]

7. Most people who saw it?

Did he release it to the KKK? Guess that colored kid "got what she deserved"

"I told you LAST time if you did this again you would be cuffed" Give me a break a 5 year old doesn't rationalize statements like this.

[Wizard777]

21. Exactly!

This is my favorite piece of misinformation.

"After being placed in the back of a police car, police released the girl to her mother after prosecutors informed them they wouldn't bring charges against a five-year-old."

Ooooh! Close but no cigar. The truth of the matter is that they COULDN'T bring charges against a 5 year old. She has not reached the age of culpability and can not be charged with any crime up to and including murder.

[magnussun]

27. Race card

"Did he release it to the KKK? Guess that colored kid "got what she deserved"

Sure, play the race card. Teach the child she doesn't have to obey the police, as long as they have white skin. She can beat on the teacher, and the cops, if she's black.

That's equality. Equal rights, and responsibilities. Had the child been white, would this have made the news?

M

[Unions]

30. "Beat on the teacher?"

See my post above. Give me a freaking break. I'm sure an unarmed 5 year old is SUCH a big threat to any full grown adult. Why, I'm surprised she didn't take down all 3 cops her self.

"she doesn't have to obey the police"

Odd when she calmed down and sat down when they arrived I thought that's what she was doing.

"Had the child been white, would this have made the news"

No because racist cops don't feel like a big man unless they can abuse someone smaller and not-white.

[magnussun]

34. Racist cops my ass

"See my post above. Give me a freaking break. I'm sure an unarmed 5 year old is SUCH a big threat to any full grown adult. Why, I'm surprised she didn't take down all 3 cops her self."

Excuse me, but I used to teach kids this age, and when in a fit like this, they can and do hurt themselves and others and need to be restrained.

"No because racist cops don't feel like a big man unless they can abuse someone smaller and not-white."

Was the black cop a "racist" cop or just inmtimidated by the white power structure? Did the "KKK" threaten him?

M

[Unions]

36. Hmmm

"Excuse me, but I used to teach kids this age, and when in a fit like this, they can and do hurt themselves and others and need to be restrained."

Then IMO you are not qualified to be in such a position if you can't prevent things from getting out of hand to begin with.

"Was the black cop a "racist" cop or just inmtimidated by the white power structure? "

It's happened before. There's plenty of racism in many police departments.

[magnussun]

42. Authority

It doesn't matter how much training or experience a teacher or psychologist has, sometimes there are kids you cannot reach or calm. It could be chemical, or an issue with food allergies. The child might have learned violence will get her what she wants. I was, by the way, the best at my school at dealing with out of control kids. This one I probably would not have been able to handle, based on watching this video.

M

[LostinVA]

8. Come on now, that statement is so not right

I watched the video. The girl was out of control, that was a FACT. I did not see a BRAT, either; I saw an emotionally upset child who needs to have some type of professional help. There is NEVER a rationale for slapping cuffs onto a five-year-old, especially one as little as that girl. There are other ways to handle it, and maybe some other type of professional than a cop should have been called in. Unfortunately, many cops aren't properly trained to handle a situation like this -- that's not what cops do in the US.

What difference does it make if she was told 100 times? She's five --five-year-olds can't properly conceptualize actions and reactions.

And great -- we just showed her violence begets violence. And, why is the kid acting this way? It's not "normal."

[etherealtruth]

11. Exactly ...

I expect educators to posses the skills necessary to diffuse situations like this, not accelerate them.

[wakeme2008]

12. WRONG

watch the video again. She SAT DOWN the second she saw the officers.

Punch at and trying to BITE teachers I guess is OK in your book.

[Unions]

16. Do you support child abuse?

This child has obviously been abused at home. They should have called child protective services to the school and called the cops to the PARENTS house. You don't cuff an abused child.

[magnussun]

29. Abuse

"This child has obviously been abused at home. They should have called child protective services to the school and called the cops to the PARENTS house. You don't cuff an abused child."

I have been in situations where a child is out of control and had to restrain them, because even a 5 yo will hurt herself in a tantrum like this. The cops probably saved her from injuring herself. Had the school tried to restarin her, they probably would have been sued, and in these days, there probably is a rule against restraining children.

M

[Unions]

31. "in these days"

In these days there is probably a rule against restraining children for the people who these days are shaking in their boots when confronted by a 5 year old.

[panzerfaust]

10. ..."The brat got what she was asking for?" How about these kids ...

Police in Goose Creek, South Carolina, defended their decision Friday to send a team of officers, some with guns drawn, into a high school earlier this week for a drug raid that turned up no drugs.

Likely some of these kids “needed” to be threatened – one, in the video, by having a handgun pointed directly at his head (vs the “low ready” position that the officer claimed he had been using - durn those tapes).

This “Police Action” (oddly, in the South again) was covered in some detail in the second season of “Penn & Teller's Bullshit” program.

Personally, I've never met a 5 year old who needed handcuffing...

There is a pattern here, and it is not a good one.

[wakeme2008]

15. WATCH BOTH VIDEOS....

by Florida law, calling the cops was their only option, after the mother said she was BUSY at work.

[Unions]

18. Wrong

Another option would be to recognize the behavioral symptoms of abuse here and called child protective services.

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. I DID>>>AND IT'S STILLE WRONG!

Sorry, as a one time single mom, I can see where the mother may have not had an option. Many employers will fire you for leaving the job for school related issues...This is a five year old. To handcuff her is over the line, regardless of her behaviour. I have a six year old who throws tantrums...I am not the heatlthiest of people, but I am still able to calm him down without resorting to handcuffs. Sheesh.

[wakeme2008]

52. MAJOR difference... You are a mother

Not a teacher in Florida that has to follow Florida's rules for kids.

Most of the people replying to the Sup of Schools after viewing the video support the action of the cops and teachers.

Oh, I did not catch it at first, but another poster on another forum caught the fact the girl kicked at a Police Office.. Add that to punching and trying to bite a teacher.....

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. Yes, big bad scary 5 year old that she was...had to be handcuffed

Spare me. It was wrong.

[la la]

9. my take ---

as a retired teacher, I must say that at times the police need to be called when children, even kindergartners, lose control, as this child seems to have done. Right or wrong, this is the procedure. It's usually to keep them from injuring themselves or others- adults or children.

It is the school site/district - not the police - who make the decision to call the police or child welfare, whatever the case may be. The procedure is usually to call the parents and if the parents refuse to show up, or don't show up--they are told that the police are being called. I don't remember reading whether the parents were called, but apparently the girl had had outbursts like this previously and parent(s) were informed.

The police are called, they are required to come to the school and take care of whatever the district deems the problem is --- right or wrong.

My question is --did this girl enroll in school with serious behavior problems and why didn't the parent attempt to work on solving these problems? This young girl was apparently in a classroom with other children - would you want your child to be in a situation such as this? How frightening would that be for the other children in the classroom? From what I've seen - which admittedly is not the entire 'scene', the school personnel seemed to be attempting to deal with the girl in a respectable way. Even kindergartners seriously injure their classmates when they have dangerous responses, as this child seems to have had. By the way - school personnel giving the child a 'bearhug' ---can you imagine how many lawsuits would come from that??

My husband was an assistant principal for many years and had to deal with K-3 children such as these. He is/was caring and respectful of the students, teachers and parents, but he has been in situations where he came home with a bruised face, black and blue shins, scratches, broken glasses, damaged vision, ripped clothing - and on and on --from dealing with situations such as these. This happens daily in our schools and the education establishment cannot really deal with them at times because of parents threats of lawsuits, education code, law, etc. The only reason this is now being broadcast far and wide is that it was filmed and the public can seem what happens too often, in our schools. But the public needs to understand exactly what is happening - not go off on the police and schools.

This was long, sorry -- but it irritates me when the general public doesn't understand issues that schools need to deal with daily.

Children come to school daily with serious issues, behavior and otherwise - especially in this day and age. Please think about that before you respond to actions such as the one with this young girl.


:think: :think: :think:

[wakeme2008]

13. They called the mother and the mother

was BUSY and could not make it for a couple hours.

[Unions]

14. "why didn't the parent attempt to work on solving"

Are you truly that naive? This behavior is typical of abuse. There is obviously either physical or sexual abuse going on at home. The police should have been called to the parents house, not to the school.

[wakeme2008]

17. the ONLY thing the police did wrong

was they should have taken the child to DCF and let them start the mother on parenting classes......

[Unions]

19. Sorry

Parents that sexually/physically abuse need to have custody removed - not freaking "parenting classes".

[magnussun]

32. Spoiling

"Are you truly that naive? This behavior is typical of abuse. There is obviously either physical or sexual abuse going on at home. The police should have been called to the parents house, not to the school."

Or spoiling. Spoiled kids behave in this way. Violence gets them what they want. Their parent(s) reinforce the behavior by taking the child's side and giving them things to shut them up.

Oh, does anyone care--WHERE'S DADDY? Is he no longer necessary?

M

[Unions]

33. Yea that must be it

That must be why the parents didn't even bother to come to the school.

"WHERE'S DADDY? Is he no longer necessary?"

The articles I have read imply he is out of the picture, which further suggest abuse.

[magnussun]

37. Daddy

Yes, not having a father in the home is traumatic for children. But most children without dad at home don't do these things.
Had the school authorities not been "handcuffed" and the parent instilled respect for authority, then the police wouldn't have had to teach the child there are "consequences" to her actions. That's the parents' job.

M

[all.of.me]

39. this was my thought

there has to be some kind of abuse going on at home for a kid to act out like this more than once. why aren't they looking at that? maybe they will now that it's national news. (or is it?)

[panzerfaust]

20. As long as “this is the procedure” it is fine. Jawohl?!

Procedures must be followed. Orders must be followed. If not, then untermenschen will spread disorder. Jawhohl!

Being one of the unwashed General Public, and not a grade school teacher apparently I cannot understand. So I won't even try.

Next 5 year old gives me crap I'll just be following Procedure and calling the cops.

[magnussun]

38. Why didn't these things happen in the old days?

This didn't happen in my parents and grandparents day. I wonder why?

M

[Unions]

41. I'll tell you why

Because people weren't shaking in their boots fearing a 5 year old and calling the kla... err cops to handle the situation.

[magnussun]

44. Cops

"Because people weren't shaking in their boots fearing a 5 year old and calling the kla... err cops to handle the situation."

They didn't have to call the cops. The parents backed the school up, and the kids knew that they couldn't manipulate adults because adults acted like adults. They were consistent and a brat like that got a spanking when she got home. But..I haven't heard of kids in my grandprents' day getting so far out of control, even at age 5. They know it was wrong and didn't do it, for fear of consequences. Now we have a bunch of bullies and little brats running the schools because they know discipline is not allowed anymore. And their parents have the same mental age as them.

M

[Unions]

46. Did it ever occur to you

that beatings at home might be the cause of this? This is clearly a child that has been abused.

[DoNotRefill]

48. Well...

if you've seen a teacher come home covered with bruises from applying "basket holds" on ed/ld kids, your perspective might change.

Look at the bright side...if they'd TRULY have followed procedure, she'da been pepper-sprayed and tasered beforehand! ;)

[mcar]

22. You are so right

I don't agree with the police handcuffing the child, but all these armchair psychologists have no idea what's going on in classrooms today. Some of these kids have seen more in 5 years than I have in 46 and they have no real adult role models. These kids (and no, I don't mean "little black kids") are totally out of control and endanger other children.

When my older son was in 1st grade, one of his classmates threw a chair across the room. He was a big kid and prone to violent outbreaks.

That was the last straw for the teacher; who had been told previously that she needed to handle things to keep the child in the classroom. She went to the principal and said, it's him or me.

The child was removed to a special needs classroom the next day.

My 2nd grader's teacher has had to spend most of her day disciplining one out of control youngster. Because of that, my son is now being home-schooled.

[qanda]

47. After reading some of the responses here

All I can say is....... HOMESCHOOL!!!!!!

If you think any five year old child should be handled like the worst our society has to offer, then God help us all. If the school cannot handle problem kids then they should send them to a counselor or have a room where out-of-control kids can go and wait for their parents to arrive. For all that's good and lovely, please don't start treating 5 year olds like that.