"HE will judge between the nations..." (in response to Holy War Sunday)

[goodboy]

and will settle disputes for many peoples.

They will beat their swords into plow-shears, and their spears into pruning hooks, and nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore." -GOD, to the prophet Isiah, speaking to ALL NATIONS.

--Isiah 2:4

(thanks to goodboy's dad for this idea)

DU'ers...this is a great example of how the bible should be used as an instrument of peace. Can you post any other examples?

Since there's a fundie biblical hate fest, I thought it'd be fun to post examples of peace, and unity, and compassion.

[murray hill farm]

1. i do not have a bible, but...

isnt there a passage or two..where jesus told his deciples that above all the commandments...to love one another...or something to that effect?

[goodboy]

2. Yes he did...Love your neighbor as yourself is the greatest commandment.

[murray hill farm]

3. addendum thoughts...

and is it the "meak" that shall inherit the earth? If if is, i would think that the meak..would be those who chose not to fight! Was there something about those whithout sin casting the first stone? If that is the case, there would be no stones cast ever by anyone..and there would be peace.

[thecai]

4. I Could Fill A Book With Examples

;-) Jesus's message IS PEACE, which evolves around LOVE.

I also learn much from Proverbs, et al, on what to look for in Leaders, (and dangers to avoid). Even for non-believers, the book of Proverbs is "words to the wise".

[goodboy]

7. I love how they try to turn JC from a Socialist Communist Peacenik

into a Capitalist, Fascist, Warmonger.

[thecai]

11. I HATE How That's Done...

...and what's worse is the huge numbers who believe that lie (in response to goodboy's post).

Jesus brings Love, Peace, Joy, Goodness, Kindness, Gentleness, Faithfulness, Patience, and Self-Control.

[goodboy]

12. and let's not forget TOLERANCE! (nt)

[thecai]

14. It's Not OK To Hate People

but it's ok to hate what people do.

[POAS]

28. Tolerance is for people

that haven't learned to respect other people. If we respected each other, got to know each other, loved one another tolerance would not be necessary. It would be replaced by acceptance and respect.

[goodboy]

29. good point...but tolerance would be a good start toward true acceptance

[sexybomber]

53. Exactly.

The dude wore sandals, had long hair, and preached peace and love. Nowhere in my (admittedly limited) knowledge of His actual teachings do I find justification for the insanity committed by the right wing.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. That's a great book

for examples and yes on Jesus. He was a "turn the other cheek" type of fellow. Wouldn't work well for these folks eh? Also don't forget when Judas came with the guards to arrest Jesus for his court sesson on Crucifixion. That's another good example. He could've easily fought them with some nice violence but he didn't. He also had respect for authority and laws of the land unlike these people.

[goodboy]

5. Question: Which of these applies to the Christian Taliban?

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land.
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

[mitchtv]

6. My current favorite is Mark 5

pray in your room not in front of everyone This one is for the Pharisee Xians

[goodboy]

8. that's from the sermon on the mount...here are some excerpts:

"Be careful not to do your `acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full" (vs. 1-2).
In Jesus' day, some people made a show of religion. They made sure that people could see them doing good. They received the admiration of many, but that is all they will receive, says Jesus, because they are only play-acting. Their good works were done not to serve God, but to serve public opinion and to serve self. It is the wrong attitude, and God will not reward it.

Religious show-offs can be seen today in pulpits, or setting up chairs, or leading Bible study groups, or writing for church newspapers. They may be feeding the poor and preaching the gospel. On the outside, it looks like sincere service; but the attitude may be quite different.

"When you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you" (vs. 3-4).

Our "hand," of course, doesn't know anything. Jesus is using a figure of speech to say that alms-giving shouldn't be done for show, either for others or for self-congratulation. We do it for God, not to make ourselves look good.

But it is not literally true that charity must be secret. Jesus has already said that we should let our good deeds be seen so that people will praise God (5:16). The focus is on attitude, not appearance. Our motive should be to do good for God's glory, not for our own glory.

Secret prayer

Jesus said something similar about prayer: "When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you" (vs. 5-6).

Jesus is not creating a rule against public prayer. Jesus himself sometimes prayed in public. His point is that we should pray not just to be seen--or for that matter, neither should we avoid prayer out of fear of public opinion. Prayer is done for God, not for appearance.

"And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him" (vs. 7-8). God knows our needs, but we should still ask (Phil. 4:6), and we should be persistent (Luke 18:1-8). But the effectiveness of prayer depends on God, not us. We do not have to achieve a certain number of words, a set length of time, a particular posture or a special eloquence.

YOU FUNDIES GOT IT ALL WRONG!

[FreedomAngel82]

39. It's

Matthew 5.

[goodboy]

9. Here's one for those mega-rich, mega-churches, ---LOL, this is funny

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal" (vs. 19-20).

-JC

I'd like to see if you can find a parking spot for your HUMMER in heaven, asshole!

[mitchtv]

10. I'd like to see if you can find a parking spot for your HUMMER in heaven,

Like "it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a neeedle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."
For the Gay bashers "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"

[goodboy]

13. You got it Mitch! Thanks for posting that!

[thecai]

17. ...Alongside Cadillacs, Harley's, Limos....

...waiting in line to be pushed through the eye of a needle...
;-)

[goodboy]

19. Escalades. Tahoe's, Suburban's, Navigators, oh my! (nt)

[BBradley]

15. Matthew 10:34

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

[goodboy]

16. tell us what that means...is that a justification for killing/war?

[BBradley]

18. I definately don't think you can construe a statement

like "I come not to send peace, but a sword." to mean anything but that Jesus said that he did not come to bring peace...

[goodboy]

21. so when JC said this,

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.


He was lying?

[BBradley]

24. Was he lying when he said the sword bit?

[goodboy]

26. would you say that jesus spoke more of peace, and peacemaking

or war and warmaking.

[thecai]

20. Only When Taken Out of Context n/t

[goodboy]

22. Absolutely...(nt)

[BBradley]

23. Here's the context for you.

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household

10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

[thecai]

25. Do You Love The Gift More...

... or the GIVER of the Gift? Believers are instructed to put GOD FIRST. Many parents, children, preachers, gvt. etc., are not believers, so they could mislead us.
The Sword is The Spirit.
GOD Is Love
Love Never Fails.
Just my opinion based upon my interpretation and my life experiences.

[goodboy]

27. what is the sword?

[thecai]

59. The Sword of The Spirit

is The Word of GOD. Ephesians 6:17

[sexybomber]

55. That could be interpreted this way...

I don't profess to be a religious scholar, however, what I gather from that verse is this:

It can go both ways. It does not follow that the "sword" JC has sent is for use by the right wing. Neither does it follow that said "sword" is for our use. The "sword" is a metaphor for power.

What this verse is saying, IMO, is that to follow the teachings is to gain a weapon in your cause. It can be used for good or for evil, but you gotta admit, both sides could use JC's ideas as a weapon.

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. Most chirstians no longer follow Jesus

Rather they follow Paul of Tarsus and other men who hijacked Jesus' teachings and used them to gain power and money over everyone else.

Usually, if you stick to the teachings of Jesus, you can't go wrong.

[goodboy]

38. agreed...my question is, do they realize

that they are evil by Jesus' definition, these are the people Jesus threw out of the temple.


Do they realize they're following the false prophets, and Bush the Anti-Christ (according to PJPII)

[BeHereNow]

41. No, they do not realize because they are

FALSE Christians- TRUE Christians know to weigh everything
in and of the world against scripture.
The people following Bush cherry pick scripture- they
do not actually KNOW what it says, because discernment
of scripture is only possible through the Grace of God.

As a follow up to my 1 John 4 posting on this thread,
may I also offer the following from 1 John 5?

Verses 19-end
"19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in
wickedness. (Bush, Robertson, Falwell, Reed, Bennett, Dobson,
and ALL of those like them)

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us
an understanding, (discernment) that we may know him that is true, and we are
in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God,
and eternal life. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.
(That means YOU, you lurking evangelical X-tians)
Amen."

[goodboy]

42. nice...kick for that post! wow. (nt)

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. The sword basically means the truths

of Christ's Gospel message, which are to set us free, to establish peace, both within us and eventually outside ourselves in the wide world.

It happens though that, to the children of darkness, the truth is like a knife in the heart - or a sword, so he warned Christians that they must expect opposition, bitter opposition, war. He, and indeed the evangelists, cited numerous examples in numerous places in the New Testament, of the kind of persecution Christians were/are to expect.

It was the false prophets who got on really well with everyone, particularly the rulers and other influential people in society, whereas God's true prophets met opposition, rejection and persecution. Christ commented that they would welcome and praise each other to the skies, but when He came along speaking divine truths, he was rejected, pilloried, and would eventually be killed by that mutual admiration society that is constituted of the monied elites of this World.

So, for the Christian, tolerance of manifest falsehood, without seeking to repudiate it, is not an option, still less a Christian duty, despite the best advice of some Duers to the contrary.

"Blessed are the peacemakers", would seemingly have two applications:
as I mentioned above, implicitly, the living and spreading of the Gospel, as best we may; but more specifically, in the Beatitudes, endeavouring to bring disputants in worldly matters to a peaceful accommodation with each other.

Jesus himself forbore from getting involved in a dispute about worldly possessions, when he was asked to adjudicate in a dispute over an inheritance. He asked the man who requested his intervention, "Who appointed me to arbitrate in such matters", here making what was always to him the most important point, that concern for this world's goods was for "losers" (ironical isn't it?).

It is echoed elsewhere, in some measure, in the Acts of the Apostles, when I think Peter suggested it would be better to find holy persons among the general body of the disciples to see to the needs of the widows, orphans, etc., so that the Apostles might devote themselves to the spreading of the Gospels; in other words, all Christian activities are holy, when performed in good faith for the glory of God, but there is a kind of hierarchy - not necessarily of statuses, but of callings. However, Jesus never seemed to lose any opportunity to preach and reinforce, as well as by his own life and actions, by his preaching, the fact that the accumulation of more of this world's goods than is necessary for survival is misguided. Harsh, isn't it, to our Western capitalist way of thinking?

[goodboy]

33. Harsh indeed. and so eloquently put. Tell me, do you think

these neo-pharisees realize that they are in fact the false prophets Christ spoke of?

Do they realize that they're not living a life like Jesus taught his followers to live? Do they realize that by supporting the neo-con fascists, that they are in direct opposition to everything Jesus stood for?

[Joe Chi Minh]

52. goodboy, I think that

most neocons would unambiguously number among the children of darkness, and that virtue, goodness, etc is simply a mystery to them; they think it's really a con job; nobody seriously believes in it except stupid stumblebums....

As someone once put it, "To the evil man, goodness only seems a superior form of chicanery". So, no. I don't believe *they* believe a word of scripture. The monied ones can surely read plain English. Christ consistently spoke and the Evangelists consistently wrote down his words, in the plainest of English. And the whole burden of scripture is massively, massively in favour of our leading the life of the Spirit, in complete contempt of the World and money.

Our one legitimate ambition, our one vocation is to a life of prayer and devotion; what we do for a living is seldom relevant, though, of course, for the most part, we need to use our particular gifts. Work, the use of our natural gifts, etc., are natural virtues, though, and must not be confused with Christian virtues properly so-called. As Christians, we must always work for the glory of God, rather than our own worldly self-advancement, status, wealth, etc.; then our work is a form of prayer: "laborare est orare".

It's just normal to want to use our gifts, so I don't subscribe to the traditional interpretation of the parable of the talents. The talents, I believe, represent Charity, self-sacrificing Christian love. Christ's teachings strongly seem to suggest that he was most anxious that we should not confuse these two kinds of virtues. "Even the robbers, heathen, etc., do as much", i.e. exhibit the natural virtues.

Of course, while there might be *some* half decent characters among the neocon rednecks, none of them should think they will be spared God's wrath if they continue to view other peoples, such as the Iraqis, with contempt. We are *all* of course, God's most precious children, for whom he suffered a horrifyingly agonising death. It would not have mattered if we were the only person he'd made. He could not have loved each one of us more than he does. I know I'm preaching to the choir here.

[BeHereNow]

32. The verses that reveal FALSE Christians: 1 John 4

This is the section of scripture that reveals
who Bush and his so-called "Christian" followers
really are.
Read it and tell me what YOU think.
Important to ask yourself,
"When and where has Bush fulfilled 2?"

BHN

The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Antichrist

4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they
are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the
world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that
confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And
every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the
flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye
have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the
world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them:
because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and
the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God
heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we
the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

God Is Love

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every
one that loveth is born <1> of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that
loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was
manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his
only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and
sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so
loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath
seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us,
and his love is perfected in us.

13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because
he hath given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and do testify
that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God
dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and
believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that
dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17 Herein is our
love <2> made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of
judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no
fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath
torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love
him, because he first loved us. 20 If a man say, I love God, and
hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother
whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not
seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who
loveth God love his brother also.

[goodboy]

34. If a man say, I love God and hateth his brother he is a liar..(1)

is that one?

on edit: the language is a little hard for me...all the "ith"s and such....


I wish it were written in ebonics LOL

[BeHereNow]

36. LOL, I just pulled the same verse!

See my post below...
Great minds think alike, eh?
BHN

[goodboy]

40. we are all one aren't we? (nt)

[BeHereNow]

35. In Particular:

Verse 20:
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:for he that loveth not his brother
whom he hath seen, how can he love God
whom he hath not seen?

ANSWER ME GEORGE, you hypocrite.
You, who MOCK God on a daily basis.
BHN

[thecai]

43. Excellent Scriptures, BHN....

...for instructions on the discerning of spirits. I look for Fruit of The Spirit; Love, Peace, Joy, Goodness, Kindness, Gentleness, Faithfulness, Patience, and Self-Control.
I don't see that Fruit in many preachers or leaders anymore. I see leaders mocking the poor and ignoring their cries. I see churches with waterfalls in the lobby, while members of their congregation wait in line at the food bank... I see innocent prisoners denied justice and equality, simply for being accused or for being indigent... these are "the last straw" with The Lord, and Jesus asks if He will find faith on earth when He returns. "Christians" who lack Love and compassion, and those that promote hatred and violence, are not good examples of Christians. Words have power, and when leaders contort or distort words, especially GOD'S Word, many people follow foolishly.

It's not what goes in a man that defiles him, but what comes out... (words)
The Kingdom of GOD is within you, not in a certain church, or city, or mountain, or gvt....

[BeHereNow]

44. Glad you like 'em- Me too!

If youwant to make a freeper-xtian's head explode,
ask them to produce ANY documentation what so ever
from where so ever, as to the Shrub fulfilling 1 John 4:2...
They CAN'T.
It does not exist.
Anywhere.
BHN

[BeHereNow]

57. And so it is.

You know that and I know that.
Too bad so many do not.
The evangelicals totally ignore
the fact that Law has been replaced by Grace.
and that is the key to recognizing the fact that they are
false Christians.
BHN

[Greylyn58]

45. I think the Fundies need to remember this one

especially verse 43

Matthew 5 verse 43 and 44

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy
neighbor, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse
you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which
despitefully use you, and persecute you;

All these people know how to do is hate and kill. They have distorted his messages of peace and love.

[goodboy]

46. How long until the fundies go on attack mode against JC?

That's what they usually do when someone's philosophy contradicts their evil agenda.

[Greylyn58]

48. Unfortunately it's happening now in some respects

Jesus is surely shaking his head over everything that is happening I'm sure.

[Greylyn58]

47. And I think this one applies to Bush and his cohorts

who have co-oped the messages of Jesus to use in their sicko grab for power.

Matthew 7 verses 15-20

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

To me this speaks of Bush and his whole rotten crowd.

[goodboy]

49. it speaks volumes...thank you for participating in this!

[bobbieinok]

50. final judgment----the sheep and the goats----Matthew 25, New RSV

31 ‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left.

34Then the king will say to those at his right hand, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.”

37Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?”

40And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.”g

41Then he will say to those at his left hand, “You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.”

44Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” 45Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.”

46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’

[goodboy]

51. Kick...nice post.

[Joe Chi Minh]

54. Some great quotes from you all here.

It did my heart good to be reminded of them.

[Joe Chi Minh]

56. Also, insightful comments.

[candy331]

58. This very scripture is inscribed at the UN n/t