Another movie for fundies to freak out over.

[Bouncy Ball]

The Kingdom of Heaven is the title of the film. I found an article about this here:

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_050425kingdom.shtml

Snippet:

Christian conservatives in America are marshalling their forces against Sir Ridley Scott’s forthcoming crusader epic, The Kingdom of Heaven, claiming the film is insulting and unfair.

A spate of hostile reviews that are due to appear in the increasingly influential religious press this week will urge American Christians to avoid the £100m film, reports the Sunday Times.

But the groups set to oppose the film, may find themselves facing further charges of hypocrisy.

Christian support for Mel Gibson's 'The Passion of the Christ', which contained graphic violence, was supported by many religious figures who had previously condemned other films for their violent content.

End snippet.

Looks like a must-see for us!

On edit: I found one of the longest flamefests I've ever seen on imdb.com about this movie and it's not even out yet. Some of the posts in that thread are so....weird and unhinged they border on the absurd. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0320661/board/nest/17774394

[Withywindle]

1. I may have totally gotten the wrong idea about this film...

...I just saw some trailers and thought, "Great, a movie romanticizing the Crusades, that's just what we need right now - NOT."

But if the fundies are upset, that piques my interest!

[stanwyck]

2. same here

I wasn't enthusiatic about the film. But now....I'll reconsider.

[Bouncy Ball]

3. Found this quote from an article

in an Indian paper:

"Still, there is a political message, one that Green, 24, interpreted with characteristic French directness. “It’s a movie with substance. It’s very clever and brave, and I hope it will wake up people in America.” To what? “To be more tolerant, more open towards the Arab people,” she said."

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050425/asp/foreign/story_4658028.asp

[LynneSin]

4. I've read where the Muslims felt it was a good betrayal of their faith

since basically the Christians were hell bent on destroying them.

Normally I don't go for these type of epic historial movies, but thanks to the fundies I'll go at least once, maybe twice just to support the cause

[Bouncy Ball]

5. Once it's released I'm going to read the reviews,

especially of local reviewers whose judgement I usually agree with.

But my husband will most definitely see it, no matter what the reviews, because he cannot resist an historic epic, ever.

[Inland]

18. PORtrayal. nt

[followthemoney]

6. I was hoping for a torture flick about the Inquisition...

This might do.

[wakeme2008]

7. Trailer Here

http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/kingdom_of_heaven/theatrical_menu.html

[Just Me]

8. Yeah,...they always get hostile when the truth comes out.

I'm gonna watch it.

[Bouncy Ball]

10. What I don't get is this:

Even IF the movie comes out and it's pretty harsh towards the Christians of the day,

a) is it historically accurate? If the Christians really did act as they are depicted in the film, then all the director/screen writer is doing is showing what happened and

b) um, why would they be upset about it? How many YEARS ago was that? Why would they be worried about that being shown now, unless they think no one has access to BOOKS about that time (in other words, anyone can read about it anyway) and unless they are afraid people are going to think they are still that way now.

Hmmmmmm. Makes one wonder, doesn't it?

[Just Me]

21. It's easier to ignore the past than to reconcile it.

:shrug:

Christians have done (are doing) some pretty gawd-awful stuff, as have other religious and governmental institutions. If every member of every religious/governmental branch faced the past with the intention to learn and grow from it,...maybe, just maybe, greater tolerance and understanding would be the result.

One can always "wish".

[MazeRat7]

9. Wow... that IMDB thread is way out there....

I wont even try to quote..... Ok going back for more, I guess its that "horrible accident' syndrome.. *grin

MZr7

[Bouncy Ball]

11. Please don't miss the one where HW is accused of shooting

JFK and Chimpy McCokespoon is called a serial child molester and rapist. And the same person says they helped write the film. I think that is a case of a REAL nutjob posting on the internet!

[MazeRat7]

13. Thats the one that brought me back for the post here....

Now I am looking for more of the same....*ok send help if I am not back in a few... *grin.

MZr7

[Kerrytravelers]

12. wwwwwaaaAAAAaaaahhhhhh!!! Hollywood is so MEAN to Christians.

I'm taking my ball and going home unless everyone tells me exactly what I want to hear.





I'm sure even Jesus himself is cool with it.




We should call ever lib we know and tell them to support the film.

[Bouncy Ball]

14. You do a very good impression of them!

Heads up for all the "OH WOE IS US!!!!" punditry on the teevee now. I don't watch it, but I know some Dems submit themselves to that torture.

[Kerrytravelers]

19. > Thank you. Thank you very much.

My husband comes from a large group of RW fundy fruitcakes. They are amusing to me, embaressing to him.

[bush_is_wacko]

15. My daughter has been dying to see this! She is a HUGE fan of

Orlando Bloom! The crusades WERE bloody and violent and I think all these radical Christians would LOVE to repeat those days. they could cull all of us non-fundies, and Catholics, and Jews, and Atheists, and Agnostics, and Muslims and Neo-pagans, and witches and warlocks right the hell out of their damn society.

They may not like the TRUTH about that time in history, but we are coming very close to that right now. Their anger is boiling over and IMO, it is really close to that type of situation at this point. The more we resist them the angrier they get and honestly, a whole lot of them are bordering on this type of behavior already, some of them have even already crossed the line. What the hell do they think blowing up abortion clinics and shooting gynecologists that perform them is?

I'm taking my daughter. She already knows what fanatics are capable of, but she needs a history lesson in JUST how out of control they DID get at one time.

BTW, I am Catholic and have NO PROBLEM admitting that my religion has been EXTREME and violent in the past. They have tortured and killed people in the name of their beliefs. If fundies have a problem admitting they have done the same well they HAVE a PROBLEM!

[Freedom_from_Chains]

16. claiming the film is insulting and unfair.

Uh-Oh, did someone produce a film that is historically accurate? That never goes over big with the funddies.

[Bouncy Ball]

17. Hee hee.

[tanyev]

20. Excellent.

A really good excuse to go see Orlando Bloom.

[Inland]

22. The one thing the movie could really open eyes on is

NOT which side was right or wrong, good or bad. Everyone has a "there first" argument.

Its that the Muslim world was RICH and POWERFUL and SUCESSFUL in a way the europeans couldn't even imagine at that time.

That's why the Crusaders were able to muster huge armies and keep the holy land and parts thereabouts for a century or so. It was worth it in a very non-spiritual way.

[pinto]

23. I tend to ignore the fundies, overall. We have an emerging Democratic

sensibility, and I'm excited about that. That's where I wanna be.

[Hatalles]

24. I *think* the film covers this time period...

From the Wikipedia entry on Saladin:

While Saladin was consolidating his power in Syria, he generally left the Crusader kingdom— the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem— alone, although he was usually victorious whenever he did meet the Crusaders in battle. One exception was the Battle of Montgisard in 1177, although he soon recovered and defeated the Crusaders at the Ford of Jacob's Daughters in 1179. However, the Crusaders repeatedly provoked him. Raynald of Chatillon, in particular, harassed Muslim trading and pilgrimage routes with a fleet on the Red Sea, a water route that it was essential for Saladin to keep open. Worse, and what made him a legendary monster in the Muslim world, Raynald threatened to attack the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. Then Raynald looted a caravan of pilgrims on hajj in 1185. In July of 1187, Saladin invaded the Kingdom of Jerusalem and annihilated the Crusader army at the Battle of Hattin, a major disaster for the Crusaders and a turning point in the history of the Crusades. Saladin captured and executed Raynald; he also captured the King, Guy of Lusignan. He then recaptured Jerusalem on October 2, 1187, after 88 years of Crusader rule. Soon he had taken back every Crusader city except Tyre.

Of course, this film is from Orlando Bloom's character's perspective, so unfortunately, I don't think we get to see as much of Saladin as we should. Someone in the Editorials thread (link below) also noted the detail that the caravan Raynald targeted was carrying Saladin's nephew and sister (who may or may not have been raped).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=121291&mesg_id=121291&page=

[rockymountaindem]

25. Truth hurts

In the review one of the preachers complained that it portrayed the Crusader leaders as cruel and most of them as greedy, while Saladin gets treated like a chivalrous knight.

A few points (although medieval history isn't my area of expertise):

First of all, Christian Chivalry didn't apply to non-Christians. They felt free to do whatever they wanted to the Muslims. For instance, Richard Lionheart murdered the 3000 civilian residents of Acre just because he was frustrated on the battlefield. They also attacked some Orthodox Christian cities in Anatolia after mistaking them for Muslim communities.

Secondly, the Crusaders were plenty greedy. It wasn't lost on them that the Holy Land was at the nexus of trade between three continents and had plenty of wealth. The whole reason they were there was supposedly to assist the Byzantine emperor. However, when they arrived, the Emperor was so afraid that the Crusaders would pillage his beautiful city that he tried to pass them over the Bosporus as soon as possible.

Thirdly, if this movie is about Saladin's time, then he isn't at the center of the brutality. Saladin tried to maintain a semblance of civilization and respectability in his conduct of the war. His primary opponent, the Frankish Crusaders in Kerak de Chevaliers fortress, broke multiple treaties with Saladin and helped to bring the wrath of the Muslims upon themselves.

If you want revisionist history, go ahead and look at the Crusades. Muslims think Saladin was a noble and almost gentle man, which definitely wasn't the case. However, he was a far sight more civilized than the Crusaders. The fundies think that the Crusaders were on the path of righteousness. That's almost enough to make me laugh. Both sides were pretty nasty to each other, but the Crusaders more so. Credible historians will agree with that assessment.

[bridgit]

26. fundies pissed? fucking good let'm stew...

[onager]

27. And "non-Xian" was also interpreted to mean...

...not only Muslims but Jews.

The movie probably won't go into that part, but it is a truly horrendous story. Especially in Germany, at the incitement of a pathologically anti-Semitic Crusader priest named Gottschalk, Jews were robbed and slaughtered wholesale. There were reports of mass suicides in some Jewish communities, including some places where Jews had lived alongside their neighbors for decades with no problems.

The Hungarian army finally wiped out Gottschalk's murderous band.

A google on "First Crusade" will give the details.

[MountainLaurel]

28. Liam Neeson and Edward Norton -- I'm there

And if it pisses off some fundies, all the better.