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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:02 PM
Original message
C-span to explode 9/11 truth Blackout Sat. 10:30 am
Sounds like something that needs to be watched!


C-Span Explodes 9/11 Truth Blackout! They Will Broadcast David Griffin Talk Saturday 10:30 AM
"9/11 and the American Empire: How Should Religious People Respond?"

The word has finally come down: David Griffin's incendiary but well-documented charges of Bush administration complicity in 9/11 have been scheduled for national telecast.! C-span will broadcast Griffin's talk "9/11 and the American Empire: How Should Religious People Respond?" on Book TV (C-Span 2) this Saturday, April 30th, at 10:30 a.m. Eastern time. My C-Span contact said the talk will also be rebroadcast on Book TV on several weekends after that--check the C-Span website for times:
http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/schedule.csp
http://www.booktv.org/schedule/

http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/149076/index.php

Griffin's electrifying talk was recorded Monday night, April 18th, in Madison, Wisconsin. If you missed this historic moment-- the biggest lecture hall at the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus overflowing with over 450 people who gave Griffin a thunderous standing ovation for charging the Bush-Cheney regime with orchestrating the 9/11 attacks--you'll have to see the video to believe it! And you won't believe the local media coverage either. Scroll down and do a double-take.

All over the country, people will be gathering for C-Span viewing parties--a new phenomenon for a network whose government coverage is usually comprised of more pedestrian fare. Some are already comparing this broadcast to the televised Watergate hearings in 1974, in which John Dean's charges against Richard Nixon ultimately brought down that corrupt, warmongering administration.

Griffin's speech represents a breakthrough not only in national 9/11 truth coverage, but in local coverage as well. Madison's mainstream and alternative media reported the event fairly, accurately, and prominently. As expected, was the alternative outlets, led by WYOU-TV, WORT radio, Indymedia, and the weekly papers Isthmus and the Madison Times, that broke the Griffin story. WYOU-TV has been putting 9/11 truth on the air for over a year on the Sunday night (7-8 p.m.) Garden of Truth slot, and WORT-radio had also raised the 9/11 truth issue on Lea Zeldin's program in spring, 2004.

During the week before David Griffin's April 18th, 2005 talk, WORT hosts Lea Zeldin, Tony Castenada, and Linda Jameson all devoted part of their programs to 9/11 truth. Isthmus journalist Bill Lueders, one of Madison's most respected local columnists, plugged the upcoming Griffin talk in his column, and Jonathan Gramling ran a terrific story in the Madison Times:

http://www.madtimes.com/

Critiques of the 9/11 Commission report

Questions left unanswered

by Jonathan Gramling

The events of September 11, 2001 - the crashing of hijacked planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and the crashing of a fourth plane in a Pennsylvania field - continue to reverberate through and change American society as the U.S. engages in an unending war against terrorism. During the ensuing 3-4 years, the U.S. has engaged in wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, dramatically increased its military spending, and curtailed civil liberties within its borders.

While most Americans - and the 911 Commission Report - blame the events totally on al-Qaeda and feel that the U.S. government was unaware that the attacks would occur, a vocal minority of individuals continue to raise unanswered questions about 911. On April 18, Dr. David Griffin, author of "The New Pearl Harbor" and "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions" and one of the leading critics of the 9/11 Commission Report, will speak at 2650 Humanities on the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus.

When asked about the commission report during a telephone interview with The Madison Times, Griffin responded "I have one little problem with the 911 Commission report. It is a 567-page lie."

While one may not agree with Griffin's conclusions that the U.S. government purposely allowed the events of 9/11 to happen and helped facilitate it in order to galvanize the will of U.S. citizens as the Bush administration expanded the American empire and secured American hegemony as the world's only super power, it is evident that Griffin raises some interesting questions.

Take the collapse of the World Trade Center towers, for example. While the official version is that the initial impact coupled with a widespread, intense fire caused the structural steel to weaken and the floors of the towers to eventually pancake down on top of each other, Griffin has some questions. "Here you have an anomaly that never before in history have high-rise steel frame buildings come close to collapsing because of fire," Griffin said. "Yet three of them miraculously did it on that day. Furthermore, there have been fires that have been far more intense that filled the whole building and went on for many, many hours like the recent Madrid fire and they don't collapse. Yet here, we have very small fires that are only in a few floors, particularly Building Seven - you only had fires on the seventh and twelfth floors - they were relatively small fires, yet here comes down this 47 story building at 5:30 in the afternoon, having never been hit by an airplane."

Griffin went on to discuss the steel columns within the core of the towers that structural engineers say bore the weight of the buildings. "The major part of the weight was born by these really massive steel columns," Griffin said. "And they went all of the way up. Well, they would have been sticking up in the air a thousand feet even if all the floors had pancaked. So, what does the 911 Commission do? They just deny the existence of those columns."

Griffin and others have found significant discrepancies between the facts and the theory that Flight 77, a Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon and slid all the way into the interior of the building. "My own view is still that the evidence is just overwhelming that whatever it was that hit the Pentagon, it was not Flight 77 because it couldn't have been if it wasn't a Boeing 757," Griffin said. "There are many lines of evidence supporting that. What does the 911Commission do? It simply ignores all of this. Now what could they have done? They could have subpoenaed the videos that the FBI confiscated from the service station across the freeway from the Pentagon five minutes after the Pentagon was hit. Wasn't that alert. There are several other videos from hotels around the Pentagon. The Dept. of Transportation had video. There are all sorts of videos that could prove the government's case if it's true that it was Flight 77, or at least that it was a Boeing 757. But the 911 Commission doesn't even raise that. So you would think if the story were true, they would have done that. But they didn't."

Finally, when Flight 93 crashed in the Pennsylvania field, Griffin contends it did not crash as passengers and terrorists fought for control of the plane. According to Griffin, it was shot down. "Maybe it was shot down after it appeared the passengers were going to get control of it and maybe bring it in for a safe landing, in which case, everyone would be alive," Griffin said. "First of all, the commission simply ignores all the evidence that I reported in The New Pearl Harbor that suggested the plane had been shot down. Secondly, they changed the timeline. That's just one of many examples of how they radically changed the previous timeline that everyone had lived with for almost three years."

Griffin’s talk begins at 7:30 p.m. on April 18.

MAINSTREAM MEDIA WAKES UP, SMELLS COFFEE

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/forum/index.php?ntid=36427&ntpid=3
Melanie Conklin's column (p. 2 of the Sunday Wisconsin State Journal, a Republican newspaper) helped draw the overflow crowd:

Talking about Sept. 11 On Monday, Madison will be the site of a rare visit from David Ray Griffin, theology professor and author of "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11."

As one might guess from that title, Griffin is controversial. He is being sponsored by a coalition of groups, including the UW Multicultural Student Coalition and MUJCA-NET (a new Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance).

"The question of the media coverage (or lack thereof) of the demonstrable mendacity of the official story of 9/11 is the proverbial elephant in the living room," says Kevin Barrett of MUJCA-NET. Griffin's talk is being taped by C-SPAN for play at a later date. Jennifer Moire, C-SPAN spokeswoman, explains its decision to cover the event as a logical follow-up to the "extensive" coverage they gave the Commission and Congressional Sept. 11 hearings: "It just seems appropriate to cover other voices."

Griffin says Madison is only his fourth lecture stop on Sept. 11 because he doesn't like to travel, so he usually sticks to radio interviews he can do in his slippers. But he calls Madison an exception because he likes seeing people of different faiths coming together to talk about Sept. 11. And he's "very happy" C-SPAN is coming.

"It will be the closest thing to mainstream coverage that this kind of interpretation of 9/11 has received," Griffin says.

His talk is Monday at 7:30 p.m. in 272 Bascom Hall.


_________________________________________________________

THE REPUBLICAN WISCONSIN STATE JOURNAL, THE BIGGEST DAILY IN THE REGION, SURPRISED READERS WITH THIS EXCELLENT REPORT OF GRIFFIN'S TALK:

http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=wsj:2005:04:19:412716:LOCAL/WISCONSIN

Speaker Says Bush Knew Of Sept. 11 Plans

The Theologian And Author Believes The President Endorsed The Attacks To Build Up Support For His Military Plans.

Wisconsin State Journal :: LOCAL/WISCONSIN :: B1

Tuesday, April 19, 2005
Doug Erickson Wisconsin State Journal
A noted Christian theologian suggested Monday in Madison that the Bush administration not only had prior knowledge of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, but probably helped orchestrate them.

David Ray Griffin, 65, a retired professor at the Claremont School of Theology in Claremont, Calif., said the government's version of the attacks is so implausible it can't possibly be true.

The numerous inconsistencies and far-fetched explanations from Bush officials "show that the attacks must have been planned and executed by our own political and military leaders," Griffin said.

He thinks Bush endorsed the attacks to gain support for a military buildup and global domination effort that began with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.


Griffin is part of a small group of scholars and others questioning the government's story and the conclusions of the bipartisan 9/11 commission that investigated the attacks.

Griffin's speech before about 450 people at Bascom Hall on the UW-Madison campus was considered a major victory by his supporters in that it was taped by C-SPAN for later broadcast on the public service cable channel. No air dates were available Monday.

Event organizer Kevin Barrett, founder of a Muslim-Jewish-Christian alliance called MUJCA-NET, told the crowd C-SPAN should be applauded "for having the guts to put 9/11 truth on national TV."

Barrett said his group paid Griffin's airfare and was hoping to provide an additional $100 to cover expenses. Otherwise, Griffin did not charge for his appearance.

Griffin has written extensively on the origins of evil and the relationship between science and religion. He has authored or edited 24 books, including "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11."

In the Sept. 11 attacks, armed terrorists hijacked four passenger jets. Two crashed into the World Trade Center in New York and a third crashed in a field in Pennsylvania.

According to the government, the fourth jet crashed into the Pentagon in Arlington, Va., although Griffin questions this and suggests the damage may have been caused by a military plane or missile.

Griffin operates from the basic premise that 19 Arab-Muslim hijackers could not have outwitted this country's extensive military defense system without inside help. Among his arguments:

* Fighter jets typically are sent out immediately upon any sign that a plane may have been hijacked. They usually arrive no later than 10 to 20 minutes. Yet in this case, the military failed to stop the attacks, then gave three conflicting versions of why it deviated from standard operating procedure, Griffin said.

* The Pentagon is probably the best-defended structure on the planet. How could a commercial airliner fly undetected and toward the Defense Department for 40 minutes and not be shot down by the Pentagon's anti-aircraft system?

* Bush lingered for more than 15 minutes at an elementary school after learning of the second jet crashing into the World Trade Center. Given that Bush's itinerary had been highly publicized, why wasn't the Secret Service concerned that he might be a target of a surprise terrorist attack?

"This behavior makes sense only if the head of the Secret Service detail knew that the planned attacks did not include an attack on the president. And how did they know this for certain unless the attacks were being carried out by people within our own government?" Griffin said.

* The straight-down, free-fall collapse of the World Trade Center buildings suggests a controlled demolition. A plane crash and fire could not have caused such a collapse, Griffin said.

These examples and others "are sufficient to suggest that there is no escape from the frightful conclusion that 9/11 was engineered by the Bush administration and its Pentagon," he said.

He closed by saying religious people must seek the truth about 9/11, create new means to spread the information and work to thwart Bush's attempts at global domination.

The crowd gave Griffin a standing ovation.

Rob Helfenstein, 41, a floor installer from Waukesha, came away convinced. "Governments have always used fake terror to manipulate their people," he said. "History hasn't changed."

But his friend, Dave Balistreri, 35, a construction consultant from Waukesha, said he entered and left the lecture hall skeptical. Although Balistreri said the Bush administration probably isn't telling the whole truth, "I think the level of complicity is much, much less than (Griffin) is suggesting."

_________________________________________________________________________________

THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC MAINSTREAM DAILY THE CAPITAL TIMES, NOT TO BE OUTDONE, PUBLISHED THEIR OWN OUTSTANDING STORY:
Theologian calls for response to 9/11
By Samara Kalk Derby
April 19, 2005
http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/local//index.php?ntid=36617

David Ray Griffin asks the tough questions about Sept. 11, contending U.S. officials had some knowledge of what was coming and possibly orchestrated the attacks.

Griffin, whose book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," came out a year ago, drew an enthusiastic standing ovation from the majority of the 400 or so people who packed his lecture Monday night at Bascom Hall.

A retired Christian theologian, Griffin, 65, taught for more than 30 years at the Claremont School of Theology in California.

His comments Monday night were directed at religious people, who he said need to respond to Sept. 11 - and the American empire that has ensued - based on the moral principles of their religious traditions.

Drawing laughter from the crowd, Griffin said he had in mind principles like: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors' oil" and "Thou shalt not murder thy neighbors in order to steal their oil."

While Griffin noted that his books and talks have not received attention from the mainstream media, C-SPAN had a cameraman at the event and plans to air the lecture at a future date. Madison's public access cable television station, WYOU-TV/Channel 4, meanwhile, will air the talk at 7 p.m. Thursday.

Americans interpret the events of Sept. 11 in one of four ways, Griffin said:

• A first group accepts the official interpretation that Sept. 11 was a surprise attack by Islamic terrorists. It is easy for these people "to think of America's so-called War on Terror as a just war," Griffin said.

• A second group accepts the official line but thinks Sept. 11 has beenused opportunistically by the Bush administration to extend the American empire. People who hold this view often believe that America's response to Sept. 11, which has led to hundreds of thousands of deaths, is far worse than the attacks themselves, he said.

• A third group believes the Bush administration knew the attacks were coming and let them happen. It shows the government as "deliberate and cold-blooded," advancing its imperial designs while hypocritically portraying itself as promoting a "culture of life," Griffin said.

Although there has been no national survey, a Zogby poll taken last year indicated that almost half of the residents of New York City share this view, he said.

• A fourth group believes that the government orchestrated the attacks. While no poll shows how many Americans believe this, polls in Canada and Germany have found as many as 20 percent of those populations do, Griffin said.

In his follow-up book, "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions," Griffin examines the questions that he and others in the "9/11 Truth Movement" charge were never examined by the federal
government's 9/11 Commission.

Evidence to support the theory that U.S. officials had at least had some foreknowledge of the attacks comes from David Schippers, the chief prosecutor for the impeachment of President Bill Clinton, who reportedly
received warnings from FBI agents about the attacks six weeks earlier, Griffin said.

Other government officials, including Attorney General John Ashcroft, would not respond to the warnings, he added.

There was the extraordinarily high volume of "put options" purchased in the three days before the attacks, Griffin said, with investors betting that stock in United and American Airlines - the two airlines used in the
attacks - would go down. There were also a suspiciously high number of put options for Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, which occupied 22 stories of the World Trade Center.

"U.S. intelligence agencies monitor the market, partly to look for signs of impending attacks," Griffin said. "One wonders how information could be much more specific than this."

Griffin then made a case that government officials planned and executed the attacks.

For one, the United States military neglected to send fighter jets to intercept the hijacked planes. Such interceptions usually occur within 10to 20 minutes after the first signs of trouble and are routine, happening
about 100 times a year, Griffin said.

It seems implausible, he said, that the Pentagon was struck by Flight 77, since it is "surely the best defended building on the planet." The U.S. military has the best radar systems in the world and "does not miss anything occurring in North American airspace," he added.

Griffin also made a case that the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings was brought on by thousands of explosives placed throughout each of the buildings. They went straight down, at free-fall speed, as in controlled demolitions, and many people in the buildings reported that they heard or felt explosions, he added.

"High-rise steel-frame buildings have never - before or after 9/11- been caused to collapse by fire," he said.

Sue Adams, 50, introduced herself to Griffin after the talk, calling him heroic. "I think some day we may really know the truth," she said, adding that it will likely be after the Bush administration is gone.

Orion Litzau, a UW freshman studying engineering, agrees that the answers the government put out through the 9/11 Commission were more than a simple deception.

"They were not only partly false but a complete, bold face lie," he said. "David Ray Griffin brings out interesting points about what could be the true story behind the 9/11 attack."

Jim Goulding, 67, who teaches religious studies at Edgewood College, admitted at first he wondered whether Griffin was a crackpot, but instead found he had a "tremendous reputation as a theologian."

Goulding has read both of Griffin's Sept. 11 books.

"I think he makes a convincing case - well documented, well footnoted," he said.

E-mail: skalk (at) madison.com


See also:
http://mujca.com/news_and_feedback.htm
http://septembereleventh.org/
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent! Thank you for the heads up.
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jasmeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Audio link at the septembereleventh site! n/t
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. And all the passengers on the Pentagon attack are living in the Cayman's..
Edited on Thu Apr-28-05 01:06 PM by Postman
Come on.

Get real.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. This will absolutely finish this corrupt mis-administration!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. it was very overflowing from i had heard


....Griffin's electrifying talk was recorded Monday night, April 18th, in Madison, Wisconsin. If you missed this historic moment-- the biggest lecture hall at the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus overflowing with over 450 people who gave Griffin a thunderous standing ovation for charging the Bush-Cheney regime with orchestrating the 9/11 attacks--you'll have to see the video to believe it! And you won't believe the local media coverage either. Scroll down and do a double-take.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. oh--and thanks for the heads up
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. 9:30 am Sat. Central Time
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. 10:30 AM on a saturday morning?
Edited on Thu Apr-28-05 01:37 PM by Tunkamerica
is that exploding? Can C-span explode anything? I know people on DU watch it, but the overwhelming majority of Americans will never watch more than a second or two of this channel.

Don't get me wrong. It's great. But, only the choir will be listening.
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jayctravis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. It's a good time slot.
Working folk who normally get up early will roll out bed around this time and sit down with their coffee.
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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
70. And watch C-SPAN? nt
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. You must have missed this part
All over the country, people will be gathering for C-Span viewing parties--a new phenomenon for a network whose government coverage is usually comprised of more pedestrian fare. Some are already comparing this broadcast to the televised Watergate hearings in 1974, in which John Dean's charges against Richard Nixon ultimately brought down that corrupt, warmongering administration.

This is GREAT news! :toast:
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Rainbowreflect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks for the heads up!
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. Setting the VCR!
Thanks for the post!!!! C-SPAN NEEDS TO RECEIVE A HUGE THANK YOU FOR SHOWING THIS PROGRAM!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
1956 Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. This is so great!!
I agree that only certain folks will stay tuned to this, but there is hope! I am wondering why Rove and Cheney aren't bullying C-span about this, and suggesting they not run it. Or maybe they are too busy with other cover-ups!!
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Could be
Maybe it's already planned and they were secretive about it? Or maybe they're so overconfident and arrogant they don't care about it and they view the group as "consperiacy theorists."
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Does anybody
know what all they'll talk about? Will they talk about the interview someone did in 2001/2002 with BinLaden and he claimed he didn't do 9/11? Also what about that video from the night before the election? Now that's really weird too. :\ And what about the bombs in the tower's?
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is going to be great!
I can't wait! I'm excited and I'm so glad this is getting coverage on CSPAN. Was Flight 93 the plane that Rumsfeld said once in a press conference was shot down? (that was his last conference I believe heh heh) And I also heard an audio file on Alex Jones' site "Prison Planet" a guy called in Howard Stern's show and he told how the plane was shot down. Does anybody have that??
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1956 Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. terrorists bodies?
Were any of the terrorists body parts ever found? I would think that maybe that would be significant.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. You can watch it now if you want
Edited on Thu Apr-28-05 02:23 PM by seemslikeadream
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. C-SPAN 2 listing
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I hope it will be on C-span 1 also
My friggin' cable company took away C-span 2 :grr:
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
56. Get some one to make a copy for you.
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QuettaKid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. THIS LINE REALLY STICKS OUT...
I don't think I have ever heard this angle brought up before...

""Bush lingered for more than 15 minutes at an elementary school after learning of the second jet crashing into the World Trade Center. Given that Bush's itinerary had been highly publicized, why wasn't the Secret Service concerned that he might be a target of a surprise terrorist attack?""
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MontageOfFreedom Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
78. Maybe the dominionists wanted it to happen...
Ever consider that. It was all staged by some of the most vile insane survivors of fascism ever imagined, who believe that the world must embrace the fundamentalist christian way.

They didn't have to orchestrate it, only allow it to happen for the sake of "democracy".
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'd give 20 to 1 odds that the repukes will NOT let this be broadcast.
They will do SOMETHING to stop this broadcast...you can count on it.

:kick::kick::kick:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
20. Great News! And Thanks! But why am I feeling uneasy
about Saturday at 10:30 am-is that ET or PT, btw? Don't know if the powers that be will allow this to be shown...since, after all, Sept 11, 2001 was the same day that if was going to be announced that Gore actually won Florida not *... :scared:
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
37. I watch some of those Saturday shows
which are mostly little book seminars with groups of twenty or so. Some are of mild historical interest, some dealing with incredible Bush scandals.

It is the Dead Zone of C-Span programming. Occasionally you can grateful about that when some think tank stooge is hawking his wares.

The metastasizing of 911 speculation doesn't always advance the cause of getting at the evidence. Not everything is equal and the main points are often degraded by some speculation that people love to enthuse about more than muse. the standing down. The orchestrating of the response to the attacks TOTALLY for Bush advantage. Cripes, didn't they even have to be talked into hitting Afghanistan before Iraq by Blair? Every other action by Bushco, even in the DETAILS of the major oil and power grab strokes exploit the incident as if it WAS part of the plan. Everything else falls apart before during and after 911 and we are still left on the outside trying to find MORE smoking guns? More incredible nefarious clandestine plotting? The coverup is just as reprehensible as whatever monstrosity it might be hiding yet little success has resulted from unfocused suppressed pressure for accountability. Unlike the response to suspicious republican after Pearl Harbor itself. And that was a real war not this incompetent sham degrading us now.
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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
71. What? Where did you here this? nt
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i miss america Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. Tivo set. Thanks for posting :-)
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. Besides being "religious", his qualifications are.....
what?
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
62. Good question
There are so many others they could have invited rather than Griffin, but I guess he is becoming a 9/11 frontman.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
25. Kick, Kick and Kick
:kick:
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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. kick for the evening crowd
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thanks for posting. I'll be watching, if it makes it to the t.v.
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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. heres to that... thanks
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. If a thread ever deserved bookmarking, it's this one!
Edited on Thu Apr-28-05 09:48 PM by gulfcoastliberal
Very interesting theories here. Great job compiling them, I appreciate it. :yourock:
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
29. keep this kicked til saturday please!
:loveya:
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
30. The truth shall set you free...
No matter the cost, there are no other options...
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greatbubba Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. im calling dish right now to get cspan on saturday
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
35. Word!!
Sounds like this could gain a head of steam.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
36. KICK!
:kick:
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. a credible case could perhaps be made
of Bush/Cheney complicity in the 9/11 attack...

But all an idiot like Griffin does is discredit any serious inquiry into the matter. This moron's tin foil hat is so heavy I'm surprised it hasn't snapped his neck.

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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
52. I agree that he isn't
the most knowledgeable or authoritative person on the subject, but if he opens people's eyes to the possibility, why not. I don't think he discredits anything really. But of course, the powers that be aren't worried by someone like Dr Griffin. They're worried by Sibel Edmond's lawsuit and her whistleblower coalition. The danger is always someone who knows someting specific, and not the people who theorize, however plausible the theories.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. The "powers that be" are probably sponsoring Dr. Griffin
when he says things like this -

Griffin went on to discuss the steel columns within the core of the towers that structural engineers say bore the weight of the buildings. "The major part of the weight was born by these really massive steel columns," Griffin said. "And they went all of the way up. Well, they would have been sticking up in the air a thousand feet even if all the floors had pancaked. So, what does the 911 Commission do? They just deny the existence of those columns."

or this -

"My own view is still that the evidence is just overwhelming that whatever it was that hit the Pentagon, it was not Flight 77 because it couldn't have been if it wasn't a Boeing 757," Griffin said.

--------------------------------

he immediately identifies himself as a crackpot, therefor making it easy to discredit anything of value he might actually have to say.

Dr. Griffin and others of the tinfoil conspiracy theory school do a lot more to impend serious inquiry into the questions surrounding 9/11 than advance.

IMHO
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Yes
Theologians usually aren't authorities on these things. To say with absolute certainty that a Boeing 757 did not strike the Pentagon is ridiculous, especially from someone who really don't have the expertise required to make that judgement. I also wonder how people can talk about "overwhelming evidence" when that evidence, interesting as it may be, consists of a few photos. I don't think he's a paid disinfo agent, but I wish they had someone like Daniel Hopsicker instead, who has spent three years researching the whereabouts of the alleged hijackers and their connections, or someone like John Judge, Peter Dale Scott, or Webster Tarpley who has researched "synthetic" and state-sponsored terrorism since the 70s. Griffin is embarrassing at times, and he just doesn't know much about these things.

The most fruitful aspects to pursue, imho, is the drug trafficking connection and the Saudi/Pakistani connection, and how this ties in with what Indira Singh called the "CIA within the CIA", the covert infrastructure of drug/arms trafficking, covert operations, money laundering, organized crime, right-wing politics and terrorism (what the political scientist Robert Cox has called the "covert world"). It was within this infrastructure that the hijackers appear to have operated.

Studying how the buildings came down is interesting, but even if you could prove conclusively that they were brought down by controlled demolition or microwawes or whatever, you wouldn't be any closer to who did it, other than a vague "Government" at best.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. I hate to agree but I do
"The way the building fell" or how "it couldn't have gone down like that is such and such a way" has always pissed me off because it doesn't have jack shit to do with LIHOP OR MIHOP.

We already have the freaking cause of the buidings falling... it was the planes hitting...they didn't need a bomb or some other bizarro world method of taking it down when they had already taken the avenue of crashing into the buildings with a plane.

All they needed were the original plans, some able minds and a computer or two to sort through where to hit the things, how much fuel to have on hand etc, but aside from all of that...I personally believe that the buildings falling was not anything that had been predicted. Just a personal hunch I have always had.

My gut feeling on this is that Griffin's theories are oddball enough that he will be chaulked up as a crackpot--if they were really believable I doubt he would ever make it on cspan. JMO
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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #59
73. Well said! nt
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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #38
72. Thank you for expressing my feelings so well.
Criticisms of this admin abound. This kind of garbage just detracts from the legitimate.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks, sounds great
:kick:
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brettdale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-05 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
41. Kick
Kick
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Kick!
:kick:
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. The case for MIHOP is real weak but...
LIHOP has a good chance of being able to be proven.

MIHOP will turn 99% off because it is way too far out.
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graphixtech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. The case for MIHOP is actally strong . . .
Some researchers believe that LIHOP is actually an impossibility, since a US air defense standdown would essentially have required actual complicity (MIHOP).



http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646#disabled
The top 15 reasons to doubt the official story of Sept. 11, 2001
# Background Issues: The Abiding Truth Deficit
# 1) The 9/11 Commission Fraud: Conflicts, Collapse and Cover-up
# 2) The Hundreds of Still Unanswered Questions, the Scores of Documented Lies
Motive Issues: Cui Bono - Who Profits Most?
# 3) Instant Fulfillment of Neocon Wish List
# 4) Political Bonanza for Bush/Rove team
# 5) Scale and Diversity of Profiteering
Means and Opportunity Issues: How to Make it Happen
# 6) Ignored Foreign Warnings
# 7) Quashed Domestic Investigations
# 8) Incapacitated Oversight
# 9) Disabled Air Defenses
# 10) The Amazing Disappearing National Chain of Command
# 11) The Pakistan Intelligence Chief Who Loved Everyone At Once
Aftermath Issues: How to Keep the Lid On
# 12) The Bitter Fight Against Investigations
# 13) The Amazing Disappearing Evidence
# 14) The Amazing Disappearing Demand for Accountability
Wildcard Issues: Just How Stupid They Think We Are
# 15) The Ripley Believe It or Not Sideshow of 9/11 Miracles
# Epilogue: For the 9/11 Legacy Victims Still Dying in New York
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #43
80. This might change your mind
Check out the link in my sig line then let me know what you think.
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12345 Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
44. Thank you for posting. Does anyone know if it will be
archived for later viewing? I don't have cable, and I'd like to watch over the internet, but I'll be working...Thanks.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. Since the event
is on CSPAN it'll probably be on their site (cspan.org).
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
46. Kick!
:kick:
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Time to bring this up again
:kick:
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
48. Keeping this Kicked n/t
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
49. Kick Me! n/t
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
50. Keepin it KICKED!
:kick:
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
51. kick
nt
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Angry Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
53. http://nyc.indymedia.org just got hacked... when will we learn,,,,
To paraphrase Vonnegut, There's no reason Good cannot win over Evil, so long as the Angels are organized like the Mafia.

This is no game! This is a civil war!
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
54. Thanks! I'll be watching it.....
n/t
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
57. It's officially on the schedule - and for sale:
Speech
The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions And Distortions
University of Wisconsin, Madison
Madison, Wisconsin (United States)
ID: 186335 - 04/18/2005 - 1:30 - $29.95

Griffin, David Ray, Author

Mr. Griffin talks about his books The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11, published by Interlink and The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions And Distortions, published by Olive Branch Press.

http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/schedule.csp
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dazinith2 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. XViD download available from 911blogger.com
feel free to leech the video from 911blogger.com from this topic:
http://www.911blogger.com/2005/04/proper-release-of-griffin-in-madison.html

its 150mb and is good quality..
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. well thank you very much!
:hi: and welcome to DU.

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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #58
75. Is this going to be what's tomorrow?
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #57
65. Hmmm....... just checked the online schedule and it's been cleared...
Cspan site has removed the cspan 2 and 3 listings right now

Not sure if they've removed the info to update it or if they're experiencing some pressure and don't want to advertise the program. Guess we'll have to hope they haven't removed it from the lineup.

Also, it's not unusual for them to change things at the last minute so.....

Guess we'll have to keep checking on them and/or just tune in and see.



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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
63. kick for the morning
:kick:
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
64. For Your Information
This will be locked once the broadcast has occured. Discussion of the broadcast should be conducted in the September 11 Forum, here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

Thank you for your cooperation.
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nomatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
66. On C-Span they just ran the schedule for Booknotes
on C-Span 2 on Sat. at 10:00 but no mention of Griffin. John Dean, Eric Alterman, Arianna Huffington, looks to be a good line up.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #66
77. Ooo John Dean
That'll be good to watch!
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
68. Setting my TIVO to record this, thanks!!
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
69. Kick. 9/11 was a device...n/t
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #69
76. Actually it was a vehicle.
It got them to where they were going. Absolute power.
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
74. Will America finally become more concerned?
With George Bush's connections to Usama bin Laden than they are with Saddam Hussein's. The 9/11 Commission never engaged in the laying of blame more or less criminal liabilty. That was just out of the question. There must be an investigation of 9/11 in which everyone on every level is looked at as possible traitors. Even George Bush. Both of them!
The attack was supplied and enacted in America so this was an inside job. They had to have help from inside people. The fish always rots from the head.
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AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
79. not a morning person, but i sure as hell am not missing this!!!
wowsers. thanks for the heads up.
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prohemp Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #79
81. I can't wait
I hope it ends this corrupt gang. CSPAN is great! The only channel that allows people to call up and talk about the 9/11 lies on the air. Who owns them?
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Katarina Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
82. Giving this a kick
:kick:
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-30-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #82
83. Me too
I'm ready. :donut:

:kick:
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