I couldn't be the only one to see the sickening irony and disconnect!

[G_j]

England to plead guilty, while millions(?) of Americans watched the 60 Minutes story on sexual torture tactics at Guitmo?

I couldn't be the only one to see the sickening irony and disconnect here!
----------
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4976303,00.html

England to Plead Guilty in Abu Ghraib Case

Monday May 2, 2005 9:16 AM

By T.A. BADGER
Associated Press Writer

FORT HOOD, Texas (AP) - Defense attorneys are hoping a plea deal by Pfc. Lynndie England will be accepted by an Army judge as the reservist whose image became synonymous with the Abu Ghraib prison
scandal heads to court.

England, who appeared in some of the most graphic photographs depicting physical mistreatment and sexual humiliation of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison, was expected to plead guilty Monday.

<snip>
=========================

Last night's 60 Minutes(Sunday):

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/28/60minutes/main691602.shtml

'Sex-Up' Tactics At Gitmo?

<snip>
He (Sgt. Erik Saar, a soldier who spent three months in the interrogation rooms at Guantanamo Bay) told 60 Minutes about one interrogation in particular, in which he translated for a female interrogator who was trying to break a high-priority prisoner — a Saudi who had been in flight school in the United States.

"As she stood in front of him, she slowly started to unbutton her Army blouse. She had on underneath the Army blouse a tight brown Army T-shirt, touched her breasts, and said, 'Don't you like these big American breasts?'" says Saar. "She wanted to create a barrier between this detainee and his faith, and if she could somehow sexually entice him, he would feel unclean in an Islamic way, he would not be able to pray and go before his God and gain that strength, so the next day, maybe he would be able to start cooperating, start talking to her."

But the prisoner wasn’t talking, so Saar said the interrogator increased the pressure.

"She started to unbutton her pants and reached and put her hands in her pants and then started to circle around the detainee. And when she had her hands in her pants, apparently she used something to put what appeared to be menstrual blood on her hand, but in fact was ink," says Saar.

"When she circled around the detainee, she pulled out her hand, which was red, and said, 'I'm actually menstruating right now, and I'm touching you. Does that please your God? Does that please Allah?' And then he kind of got pent up and shied away from her, and she then took the ink and wiped it on his face, and said, 'How do you like that?'"

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Good god.

Is this what we have come to? This level? How wrong and broken is this?

Oh, for ethical leadership in this country...

[leftchick]

2. omg, my son saw the commercial for that 60 minutes....

They put way too much information in that commercial. My eight year old asked me about it this morning. What were they thinking?

:cry:

[sweetheart]

4. At least your 8 years old is protected from costume malfunction..

during sporting contests. :-)

[bryant69]

3. What is the Irony?

That she is pleading guilty to let her superiours off the hook?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[G_j]

5. actually it appears she changed her plea

when others before her were not successful in blaming higher ups.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/30/national/30abuse.html

<snip.Six other soldiers were implicated in the abuse seen in the photographs from Abu Ghraib; all seven were reservists with the 372nd Military Police Company based in Cresaptown, Md. Four have pleaded guilty in exchange for reduced punishments; one, Specialist Sabrina Harman, faces a court-martial next month . Mr. Graner was sentenced in January to 10 years in prison and dismissed from the military. He is in a military prison in Leavenworth, Kan.

The seven soldiers had defended themselves by saying they were simply following orders. Investigations showed that the detention center was chaotic and poorly run, and that rules on treatment of detainees were vague and changed so frequently that even higher-ranking soldiers did not know the difference between abuse and acceptable interrogation techniques.

But the defense of following orders became less viable as several Pentagon investigations concluded that no one authorized or encouraged the acts shown in the photographs of the soldiers at Abu Ghraib, like forcing detainees to masturbate or pile naked in a pyramid. Last week, a Pentagon review cleared all but one of the top five commanders at Abu Ghraib of any wrongdoing; the one commander, Brig. Gen. Janis L. Karpinski, was suspended and given a written reprimand.

<snip>

[seemslikeadream]

9. If you’re ever in houston, well, you better do the right

Well, you wake up in the mornin’, you hear the work bell ring,
And they march you to the table to see the same old thing.
Ain’t no food upon the table, and no pork up in the pan.
But you better not complain, boy, you get in trouble with the man.

Let the midnight special shine a light on me,
Let the midnight special shine a light on me,
Let the midnight special shine a light on me,
Let the midnight special shine a everlovin’ light on me.

Yonder come miss rosie, how in the world did you know?
By the way she wears her apron, and the clothes she wore.
Umbrella on her shoulder, piece of paper in her hand;
She come to see the gov’nor, she wants to free her man.

If you’re ever in houston, well, you better do the right;
You better not gamble, there, you better not fight, at all
Or the sheriff will grab ya and the boys will bring you down.
The next thing you know, boy, oh! you’re prison bound.







cb :hi:

[G_j]

24. =

another great song!
:hi:

[bryant69]

10. That still doesn't seem Ironic

Don't get me wrong, what she did was horrific and she dserves what's about to happen to her. Assuming it does.

Bryant

[G_j]

11. well perhaps

irony wasn't the right word? I'll have to look up the definition again. Anyway, the point was that as England prepares to plead guilty, 60 minutes aired a story about sanctioned sexual humiliation at Guitmo.

[Sydnie]

6. Whoopie is right

"When did we become the barbarians"? blivet** has said many times that you can't "negotiate with these people" so, obviously, our forces don't see them as people at all. I see the irony AND the disconnect clearly.

[skypilot]

7. VILE!!!!

And no matter what religion I practiced, it would take someone much, MUCH better looking than Lyndie England to "create a barrier" between me and my faith. She apparently thought very highly of herself. I just hope those prisoners don't think that this is what American woman are like on the whole.

[lukasahero]

13. I think you're missing the point

It's not about sex and god knows I hope NO ONE thinks her behavior is sexy - it's about control, guilt, shame and feear. Oh yeah, from a republican standpoint, that IS about sex. :eyes:

[skypilot]

15. I didn't miss the point.

I know it's not about sex. Ms. England thought that she could use sex to "control", "shame" and put "fear" into her captives. I very much get the point. Her behavior is still quite vile. I think that on some level she thought her behavior was sexy. Any normal person would realize that anyone who saw them behaving in such a manner would simply find them disgusting. The fact that she thought her "display" would create a "barrier" between these prisoners and their faith rather than simply making them feel disgust towards HER shows quite an inflated sense of self.

[G_j]

17. SHE thought?

where did she get that idea? Is it just coincidence that similar humiliation tactics were used elsewhere?

[skypilot]

19. OK, OK. THEY thought.

However, Ms.England and any other women who used this tactic bear some responsibility. I would imagine that most women would be ashamed to behave this way on the job unless they work at a strip joint. I don't get the sense from this article--or any other that I've ever read-- that Ms.England or any other female officers balked at using this "tactic".

[G_j]

20. there is no doubt

from the pictures that she 'enjoyed' herself.
Should she have balked at this tactic? Of course!
Then again, I'm one who believes the military should have balked at waging an aggressive war clearly condemned and deemed illegal by the Nuremberg Tribunals.

[democrank]

8. I watched this report on 60 Minutes

and wanted to vomit. Not just because of the vile "interrogation" tactics we`re using at Gitmo and elsewhere but also because of America`s apparent disconnect from any unpleasant facts. I can not for the life of me understand why our torture policies are not front and center with every voter and why they are not demanding a full investigation. The fact that we`re willing to allow this to continue is inexcusable. Today I`ll call my senators AGAIN.

[Window]

12. Jesus!

That is sickening.

[Double T]

14. Zero Credibility, !00% Distain, 200% Disgust . And We Let These .........

...Crimes Against Humanity And All It Stands For Continue. If Anyone Could Still Support This Administration, You May Not Be Human.

[Done]

16. The same methods have been used in Afghanistan as well.

Clearly the guards were following orders. It would be a remarkable coincidence for the same methods to be used in all these locations and there is no connection? It is also difficult to believe that the guards went out and acquired the equipment and attack dogs on their own, and then used systematic methods for torturing the prisoners. At one time, I tended to believe that a general or colonel in MI was responsible, but there's been five or six bogus investigations by the government. Considering the size of the cover up, there must be some higher ups involved.

I'm not saying that the guards are innocent. To some degree they are guilty, but they are not the only ones who are guilty, and they are not the most guilty.

[G_j]

18. I think you are correct in this

"Considering the size of the cover up, there must be some higher ups involved."

[paula777]

21. Are stories like this the reason people spit on returning vietnam vets?

I always wondered why they were spit at and yelled at when they got home ... where they doing sick shit like this back then too?

[G_j]

22. well

it seems that story has been greatly exaggerated and embellished by the RW. Or to put it another way, it was the isolated exception, not the rule.

[G_j]

23. did anyone hear that the

judge seemed reluctant to let England plead guilty today?
It sounds like he wanted to hear more about how she didn't understand that she was not doing what she was supposed to do, as Gaynor(sp?) was an MP and her superior. He did let her plead guilty though.
That is what I gleaned from a radio report anyway.