Lack of diversity on DU (Not meant as a flame-war)

[SmileyBoy]

I really think we should have a conversation about the lack of racial and religious diversity on Democratic Underground. The reason is that I think we may be oblivious to this fact. I've been recently peeking through the gallery, and noticing that around 98 out of every 100 faces in there is Caucasian. Now, there's nothing wrong with being one race or another, but I have noticed a trend in lack of diversity among the DU membership, or at least of whom which we can see visual information about, which adds up to at least hundreds of members.

I know we have a somewhat diverse religious makeup in our membership. We have moderate Christians, fundie Christians, casual Christians, Athiests, Agnostics, a few Jews that I know of, a few Muslims (other than myself) that I know of, a couple Hindus, at least one Buddhist, etc. But there seems to even still not be enough clear representation of different diverse religions on this website.

The racial makeup seems to be even more homogenous. Whenever for example, one posts a link to the FreeRepublic gallery as proof that they're all a bunch of homogenous, trailer-trash, white trash rednecks, it makes me self-conscious out of fear of hypocrisy to say anything negative at all in this aspect about the rival site that we seem to have a large shortfall in as well. I think at least what sets us apart is our more diverse array of religious orientations and sexual orientations. But then again, we have over 69,000 members, and it takes a lot of people from different races, religions, etc. to tone down the homogenous landscape of our group.

And as I see the gallery, I see very few African-American faces. Hell, I only know of four DUers that I know with certainty who are African-American. I see very few Asian faces. I see no Hispanic/Latino faces that I can think of. I know of only one Indian (Hindu) person. Now, while we're all liberal, progressive, open-minded people, we seem to almost all share the same characteristic of being White, and that makes me concerned about how we may be presented to other people outside our camp, because we may not seem like a bunch of liberal, progressive-minded people if all of us are Caucasian. Hell, I'm White too, I may be Turkish, but that still technically makes me White. I'm not preaching from a different pulpit here.

This post probably has taken the most cajones for me in all my almost 10,000 posts on DU and over 3 years of membership to conjur up. I normally don't hang out in GD and express a deep opinion. I usually hang out in the Lounge and discuss idiotic crap (not that I don't like it;)). But this is something that has been on my mind for a while, and I feel like I am worthy enough to type an opinion on the General Discussion forum without being flamed as anything from a Freeper to whatever else. This is something I feel we need to talk about. We're the "Big Tent" Party. Our site should be attracting more diversity.

Thanks for listening.

[KamaAina]

1. The gallery is hardly representative of all DU

people have to submit their pix; those who do so are mainly "Lounge lizards".

If it's DUversity you seek, why not scroll through the extensive list of DU Groups? You'll be amazed how many are out there.

[question everything]

125. What gallery?

Not that I would post my picture - I wouldn't know how to do it even if I wanted - but... where is it?

[AspenRose]

2. DU groups

Go to DU groups.

*DR, a woman of color who chooses to not post her photo (and I am sure there are more like me)*

(my cat's in the gallery though!)

[JDPriestly]

3. What do you propose to do about this?

As far as I know, no one is intentionally excluded. I don't think DU expressly solicits anyone to join. I learned about DU from a friend, and I suppose that's how other DUers learned about it. Have you told your friends who don't fit the DU profile you are criticizing about the website? That's how to get more diversity, it seems to me.

[confludemocrat]

10. Maybe YOU should make nonwhite friends and tell them about DU

Rather than being so defensive about DU. Sounds like a stereotypical response to criticism of all white country clubs.

[JDPriestly]

16. I tell all my friends about DU

I live in California where it is impossible to have only white friends. And I've only been in a country club once in my life -- at the age of 15, playing in a string quartet for a fancy tea. That was enough for this progressive lib.

[JDPriestly]

17. Anyway,

I can't help it if I'm white, and I can tell my friends what sites I like on the internet, but I can't make them go there. I don't know, and I don't care what race you belong to, but you need to work on your on race issues. The internet is normally colorblind. It would never occur to me to look at profiles to see what race the people on DU belong to because I don't care about anyone's race as long as they are not being intentionally or inadvertently discriminated against.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. There's only a couple hundred faces in the gallery at best

Most of us won't put our picture in the gallery since anyone has access to it.

You really have no clue of the color or religion of the person posting..hell just this week we lost a white Irish guy who didn't even exist.

[Bluebear]

7. Don't forget Cuba!

:)

[etherealtruth]

20. Did any persona actually exist ?

... I am becoming convinced some middle aged woman in Latvia responds to my posts, pointing and laughing at the screen ... obviously amused by what a rube I am.

[Catherine Vincent]

5. I agree. We need more color at DU!:-)

[DrDebug]

6. Why are you surprised by that?

On political messageboards the majority will be white males aged between 25-50 who generally have an above average income and are often independant as well and have an above average education often on university level.

And that bias is due to the concept of messageboarding and internet and the requirements it gives to those who participate. Not everybody can afford to spend hours behind a computer with broadband internet etc. and also be interested in politics.

[Dogmudgeon]

8. It's not just DU

Not a whole lot of minority folks have computers. Those that do usually don't use on-line "communities" like DU because they just aren't very reflective of their lifestyles. They aren't comfortable in the alien milieu that is cyberspace. Many forums require all messages to be posted in English; with poorer education and fewer grammatical and spelling skills, language-arts flames intimidate them; most minority kids avoid geeky activities like science-fiction conventions, RPGs and Anglophilia; and I've met several Latino and black folks who like cats, but I don't think anything like on-line cat fetishism is known in the 'hood.

Then there is on-line racism. With so many angry white folks who have burning desires to cut loose and be "Politically Incorrect," things get said that would not be tolerated in real life. And who wants to walk into that?

It's just not "their world", and we're doing nothing to help them into it or to build their own part of it. It sucks.

--p!

[Pithy Cherub]

14. That is a stereotype that is quite breath taking in its descent into

the abyss. I understand that you are seeking a plausible reason behind the perceived lack of people of color using electronic mediums - there are quite a number of people of color here. Have you seen the diversity of topics in the AA Forum and many who post there are what would be considered by any standard - the educated elite!

[Dogmudgeon]

18. It's true

But people deal with the surface display first. And much of what we call "stereotypes" are better described as "folkways". Some of the Internet's folkways are pointedly racist. For instance, how many "Ebonics-to-English Translators" are there floating around in cyberspace?

The abyss of which you speak is real. It's the abyss that separates people. It creates fears of "The Other" in every walk of life. Cyberspace has the ability to reduce this yawning chasm, but it has done very little so far.

It will take a concerted effort to make the Internet more culturally inclusive, and the large number of committed anti-multiculturalists is discouraging. The challenge isn't impossible -- it's simply tough. And many people of any ethnicity may not feel it's worth their while to fight their way into cyberspace.

--p!

[Pithy Cherub]

53. Cybespace is not a medium where one can be classified easily.

For instance, I am Black and you would have no clue based on my facile usage of the Queen's English. Today, I also responded in espanol to another post. However; there are more people online who feel no need or have a compelling reason to share culturally identifying information.

An inference would be that certain domains within cyberspace have barriers to entry for those who might be neophytes with the Internet. It doesn't mean that an ability to attempt and/or learn this electronic medium is mostly impaired by fear of facing a challenge to learning the mores of the 'net. It may also mean that those who are trying and succeeding may be under the radar more than thought.

[Dogmudgeon]

119. True again -- but --

My point is that a lot of people WILL be -- and ARE -- intimidated by those barriers. It has kept the number of minority people who use the Internet lower than it ought to be. It has also kept older folks away, no matter what ethnicity they are. Black people, in general, usually have less money to spend on computer gear to go on-line, which also keeps the number down; Latinos are at a similar economic disadvantage.

A Black scientist, for instance, or a Latino marketing executive can, and will, devote extra effort to establishing an on-line presence. But for the casual user, the hassle is usually "not worth it". This discouragement is often taken back to the person's friends. Even when overt bigotry is absent, enforcement of folkways and norms continues. White Appalachians face on-line bigotry in spite of their skin color, and it's distressingly prevalent here on DU, where "Southern" often means "Bad".

Along the lines of what you said, I didn't know you were Black. Half the time I can't even tell if a person is male or female, old or young. Group membership is not something I usually take much notice of. Most people in general would probably have a similar lack of interest in trying to discern who comes from what group (though on political fora like DU, there is an active effort to verify one's political bona fides).

But still, language flubs will often get you flamed, and most people from any group won't stick around somewhere they will receive humiliation for such picayune reasons. And with very few exceptions, it is difficult to determine the background of a person based on their language errors. The use of language errors to justify "correction" is an age-old method of enforcing class and in-group privilege. It's even in the Bible ("shibboleth" vs "sibboleth"), and its existence in cyberspace is no less aberrant than its existence in ancient Israel. Thus, ethnic and class differences are still perpetuated in the absence of actual bigotry.

I've ranted lo these many years against provincialism on the Internet -- and I've been on-line actively since 1988. I learned Esperanto as a kid, had a couple of non-English-speaking pen pals in Esperanto-land, so a lot of culture centrism sticks out like a sore thumb for me. The more people who push ahead and use the net in spite of the conformity club, the better. But the sad reality is that it will slow down general public use among those who are from out-groups.

It will take intentional effort to open up the Internet's culture. The effort is worthy and important. But we're going to have to invite and re-invite previously flamed-off people, maybe for the next generation or two. And if a large number of people are flying under the cultural radar -- fantastic!

Everyone, anywhere, should be able to get on-line if they want to. With no exceptions. And screw the conformity club.

--p!

[Pithy Cherub]

123. Your worthy goal is to make the online world inclusive.

Your premise is negated because of the sweeping language employed to make a point. The middle class under Clinton grew in exceedingly large numbers. A significant reason Clinton is so beloved with people of color is that he made that strata of the middle class accessible. Your premise doesn't survive the factual gains that have been made by middle class black families who are like the Huxtables, but focuses instead on the poorest and most under-educated who no longer make up the largest segment of black society. (Under * we are all revisiting lower levels of economic sufficiency.)

The broad generalization is subject to misinterpretation because the wording seems to be applicable to all rather than some. It may not have been your intent, but that is why there is a breakdown in communication. You used the word victim which is a pathology of helplessness.

What is rampantly underserved are the empowered of all socio-economic minority groups that make the extra leaps that go unnoticed and unreported to society at large. That is why there is hostility to your post, those who live in the minority community KNOW that there are many online - it is seriously on the "down low" to use the vernacular. Learning means making mistakes. It is also offensive for an assumption to be made that after suffering through centuries of enslavement, repression, and discrimination that cyberspace is beyond the reach because "the hassle is not worth it." That is an example of a sweeping context that raises the ire of a person of color. You are right that there are large pockets of disaffection and discouragement, but that was taken as a whole basis rather than the fact that there are just as many examples to disprove what you are saying about being online.

More than anything, what is appreciated is your desire to be observant and have a passion for understanding root causes. No racial groups are monolithic in behavior or preferences. My issue with the summation is that it applied in general rather than specific to a large but often silent presence on the internet.

[Chovexani]

43. OMG.

I'm not sure if you realize it or not, but that has to be one of the more ignorant posts I've read here in a long time. I don't even know where to start.

I'll just say you're woefully misinformed about people of color and leave it at that.

--C., black woman, doesn't live in "the hood", and goes to sci-fi cons and runs D&D games!

[Dogmudgeon]

118. OMG, Part Deux

You know, I wrote a fairly detailed explanation, and then realized it would be an exercise in futility. I re-read what I wrote, and I see nothing wrong with it.

Perhaps you took offense to my mention that minority people have lower levels of skill in “correct” English. This is both true AND not something I blame on the victims of miseducation. Minority kids receive, on the average, much worse education than white kids. Need that be pointed out here? The situation stinks. I thought we were all “on the same page” about it.

And if you use incorrect grammar or spelling, you are apt to be flamed. No one ever need know your ethnic background or see your skin color -- someone will flame you just because they can. This is news?

I suspect my real “ignorance” isn’t that I’m “woefully misinformed about people of color” but that I am woefully misinformed about Chovexani (and the other people who took offense). The misunderstanding here is that I was writing about cultural hegemony and insularity in cyberspace, not how particular individuals fare. Cyberculture is still a tough nut to crack for most people who aren’t bourgeois, intellectual, American, familiar with science-fiction fan slang, and coming from a “white” cultural background. You may be a cultural pilgrim, but most people aren’t; and on the Internet, most white American people aren’t cultural pilgrims unless they use a language other than English.

This should be self-evident. I’ve been on-line since 1988, and have often ranted against the provincialism of cyberspace; you’ve certainly seen my rants about it here on DU. How this is offensive to anyone except right-wingers comes as a surprise to me.

--p!

[mark414]

130. i don't even know where to start

but just about everything is wrong with that post of yours.

it implies that people who aren't white aren't capable of speaking "proper english" and you also imply that people who aren't white are basically, too dumb to use the internet.

i'm white as rice, but you definitely need to check yourself dude.

[angee_is_mad]

105. You're being SARCAstic, aren't you?

if you are not your post is the most offensive that I've seen on DU all week and that is saying a hell of a lot.

[Dogmudgeon]

109. I think that was a major misreading of what I wrote

I could simplify the message: "Minority folks often feel very uncomfortable on the Internet due to the enforcement of norms and folkways that differ from those in their community."

How all this is offensive to you is a mystery to me. And considering that my sarcastic asides pertain to "white boy" culture, where you found offense is also a mystery.

Maybe the Ebonics-to-English translators I mentioned? They get links here at a rate of at least two per week, with usually a dozen "LOL" replies. Now, THEY are examples of "offensive" -- yet I never see those links raise hackles.

I fail to see how pointing out white/American/intellectual/bourgeoise cultural hegemony is offensive to anyone who gets the short end of the stick.

Finally, if this is the most offensive post you've seen all week -- you haven't been on much :)

I can only apologize for your being offended by misunderstanding, since my intention was the opposite. I have consistently criticized cyber culture for its cultural exclusionism and insularity. I think my "track record" since 1988 bears this out.

--p!

[fortyfeetunder]

131. Now this is a laughable moment

"Minority folks often feel very uncomfortable on the Internet due to the enforcement of norms and folkways that differ from those in their community."

What community are you talking about? I don't think I am acquainted with it.

fortyfeetunder, another person of color.

[angee_is_mad]

132. Norms and Folkways?

What are they and why would it be a discomfort for them on the Internet?

[ecstatic]

138. Check out the forums on BlackPlanet and Black Voices

To name a couple... You have no idea what you're talking about. Your comments are offensive. All you did was prove the Original poster's point.

[readmoreoften]

9. Where's the gallery??????? n/t

[tjdee]

44. Here

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Gallery

:hi:

[Pithy Cherub]

11. Most don't feel a need to post a pic in the Gallery.

There are very strong opinions expressed in other groups and forums about the QUALITY of discussion regarding socio-economic issues that affect people of color.

Your courage in stating an opinion is most appreciated and your concern is most welcome! :hi: :hug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. You can tell people's races by reading their posts on a message board?

I've been on DU since February or March 2001, and over the years, several DUers have mentioned being African-American, Asian-American, Native American, or Latino.

As far as religions are concerned, atheists and agnostics are probably the largest group, but there are plenty of Christians, and I know of several Jews, Muslims, and Pagans as well.

[DistressedAmerican]

39. I Assumed The Same On Religious Beliefs. Posted A Poll To Ask

and I was surprised that over 7-% of thos that responded self identified as Christians. While not a scientific poll, It made me rethink that assumption.

[bvar22]

13. Interesting points.

We are a FREE anonymous discussion board. I am unaware of requirements for membership (beyond NOT being a screaming republican fascist).

I have never been to our gallery, and don't go to The Lounge, so I don't have those indicators, and I seldom click on someone's profile.

Posting pictures in the Gallery will appeal to a certain segment of our population here, and shouldn't be used as a valid cross section. However, I don't doubt your observations.

If indeed our SES is predominately middle class white, what could we do that would not change the basic nature of DU (Free, Anonymous, InterNet, Progressive, Political News and Discussion?

[patricia92243]

15. I don't know how to force people of any color to join DU .

.

[merh]

19. Some folks just haven't posted their images.

My mother always taught me "Names are fools, like their faces, always seen in public places."

I generally don't post photos.

Talk about a broad assumption. :freak:

[JDPriestly]

21. DU and discrimination

I note that you focus on race and religion and don't mention age, gender, ethnic origin or sexual orientation discrimination. DU is big on diversity in those areas. And, trust me, its those kinds of discrimination that are most common and least punished in our culture right now.

Look at the last campaign. It used to be that race discrimination attracted the southern whites to conservatives -- whether Democratic or Republican. In the last election, the Republicans used sexual orientation as the honey for their voter bees. Based on my reading of the posts, DU has a good representation of people of different sexual orientations.

As for age discrimination -- if we could get the employment/unemployment figures broken down by age, you would see that the over 55 group suffers tremendously from discrimination where it hurts -- in the workplace, and there are people of all ages on DU.

Gender discrimination remains an issue -- and is the basis for the anti-choice, anti-women's-privacy-rights movement. DU does not discriminate on this issue although DUers are by definition Democrats and therefore pro-choice and pro privacy for women.

The major form of religious discrimination in the U.S. is against free thinkers -- agnostics and atheists. (I'm neither.) DU has people of all religions and faiths and varying degrees of religiosity. Because free thinkers feel the least comfortable about their religious freedom , they tend to be the most vocal on that issue. But, actually, if you polled DUers and everyone responded, you would probably find that most of us, like the population on the whole, are religious and very tolerant about other people's religion. You would probably also find consensus against the religious right -- because we value religious freedom and the separation of church and state -- a central Democratic issue.

Race discrimination is still present in our society, but Americans are very sensitive to it. It used to be that the discrimination was by whites but never against them. That is no longer true, at least out here in California. While the frequency of discrimination against whites is still lower than that against others, it is increasingly common. The dominance of mostly whites on a website doesn't necessarily mean that the people visiting it haven't experienced race discrimination.

In my experience, posts that contain discriminatory content are not allowed here, and that is as it should be.

[ikojo]

29. What about class diversity? I recall a few years ago when NPRs Talk of

the Nation was actually worth listening to, the Ray Suarez years, Ray was at a conference of Hispanic Journalists. During the discussion diversity came up and someone said that not only should newsrooms concern themselves with ethnic diversity but also with socio-economic diversity. This person said that if the minorities are coming from the same small class segment as their white counterparts there will be little difference in perspective in the news.

[JDPriestly]

34. You would probably be surprised at the class

diversity on this site. It probably reflects the diversity in the Democratic Party pretty well in that respect. That means it is a lot more diverse than the Republican Party. It's all relative, especially in politics. Of course, we are all well enough off to either own or have access to computers.

[ikojo]

35. Before I got a computer at the end of 1998,

I accessed the Internet at friends' homes or at the library. Even today the library in the suburb where I live has approx ten computers that people can use and they are very well used. The same is true of many libraries in the city of St Louis. The Internet access is free and in the city even the printing is free. The thing that sucks about using the library is that they enforce the time limit during busy times, other than that one can surf to one's delight!

[RagingInMiami]

102. The problem with newspapers is ...

that even though some are trying to make their newsrooms more diverse by hiring more blacks and latinos, they don't feel the need to cover these communities other than say black history month or cinco de mayo.

I worked for dailies for more than seven years and they just don't have a fucking clue.

[mogster]

22. There's a point in what you're saying

I agree that diversity is good. And the Internet is a big tent, like the Dem party, so there should be good reasons for it to happen.

But I'm not sure it is so homogenous as you think, at least if you look at the images the people use to represent them beside each post; the avatars. I see a lot of diversity there.

Just my 2c

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thebigidea]

25. whereas its just incredibly mature to tell people to go to hell

that really fosters intelligent dialogue...

[Kipepeo]

26. Your response doesn't make any sense to me

I don't think the OP is asking to know any of these things about people, but rather just commenting on his/her perceived lack of diversity here and wondering if others have the same perception and if so, what can be done about it.

Diversity in all areas is of interest to some people. It doesn't mean they want your SS #.

Geez, harsh response.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

27. Generally

Being able to afford a computer, an internet connection, having a job where those are provided, and having the leisure time to post a lot is the purview of the middle class and up (I said generally, remember).

It is a phenomenon that, as an aternative online journalist, I see all the time. 99% of the people I see at speeches and rallies are white, who got their information off a computer because they could aford them. Meanwhile, the rural and poor and rural poor generally don't get this information because they don't have computers or conectivity.

I said at a talk this winter that if the alternate media really wants to change the world, they should collectively push Congress to spend billions on providing computers and net access to poor and rural areas.

It is what it is.

[SmileyBoy]

30. I guess it is true that there are differing levels of internet access....

Among different racial demographics and such. Maybe we should be bolstering our initiatives to attract more minorities in our cause, and even onto our website.

[WilliamPitt]

32. It's not racial so much as economic

It isn't that people can't get computers if they are black. People can't get computers if they're poor. But the two are tied together in our brave new world, though I'd wager that the non-connected white poor outnumber the non-connected black poor.

[RagingInMiami]

31. I'm Hispanic

[UdoKier]

33. People of any race are free to join.

What would you like us to do, run ads in "Ebony" and "Low Rider"?


Funny that others bitch that we're only the party for minorities, but if a DU gallery is overwhelmingly white, it's a big deal?

Your post would be more constructive if you pointed out exactly how it is we are either alienating or failing to attract minorities.


It should also be mentioned that minorities are underrepresented in any group of computer users, anyway...

[RagingInMiami]

36. Jeez, I didn't realize I was not representing my culture properly

Let me run to the store and grab a copy of Low Rider.

[Chovexani]

47. Hey, didn't you get the memo?

Us black and brown people are all too poor to have computers and we can't speak proper English and we can't relate to "cyberspace"!

And we all live in "the hood", too!

:banghead:

[RagingInMiami]

50. But at least we have cooler cars than they do

Watch my hydraulics, vata!

EDIT: This chica is a vata, not a vato as I originally wrote.

[Chovexani]

52. LOL!

I guess I should tell my mom to put some rims on the minivan...

[UdoKier]

81. But don't the "Latins" in Miami read mostly...

"Muerte a Castro" , "Castro es el Diablo", "Castro, Castro Castro!" ;)

When I lived there most seemed to have a one-track mind. Okay, just the Cubans. But man, they had a hissy fit every time that old asshole tripped over his shoelace.

[RagingInMiami]

85. First of all, when you say "Latins" you lump us all into the Cuban group.

I'm Colombian-American, not Cuban. I have Cuban friends as well as friends from all over South and Central America and Puerto Rico. Miami is not just a Cuban city, contrary to what you might believe.

But as far as the Cubans go, it's generally the older Cubans who are obsessed with Castro, the ones who came over during the early 1960s.
And they're all senior citizens now.

The Cubans who were born here don't really talk about it because they've never experienced it. They will definitely have an opinion about it if you ask them, but they never bring it up unlike their fathers and grandfathers.

The Cubans who came over during the 1980s and who are still coming never mention Castro unless you bring it up. They're just happy to be here.

[UdoKier]

95. Actually, I *DID* specifically say Cubans.

And I was joking about how Miami Cubans seem to like the term "Latins" as opposed to "Chicano" or "Hispanic" used more widely elsewhere, and the fact that Miami Cubans generally think that the world revolves around them, and of course, Fidel Castro.

You cannot have lived there any length of time and not noticed it. The fairer-skinned Cubans identify strongly with Spain and many of them seem to look down on Puerto Ricans, Mexicans and Central Americans.

I worked for 4 years in an office with almost all Cubans, and I agree that the obsession is not as strong with the people who were raised here, but it's certainly there nonetheless.

And they brought it up CONSTANTLY. The one thing about Miami I was happiest to escape, other than the heat and humidity, was the endless talk about Castro, greatest threat to mankind, and most evil dictator the world has ever known.


I don't know if it's because many of these Cubans are descendants of a barbaric plantation system, and are accustomed to looking down on others, but I knew many Latin people in Miami, from Colombia, Peru, Puerto Rico, Argentina, and Nicaragua, and most of them had a great deal of resentment toward the Cubans, and I think it's fair to say that Many of the Cubans, who are firmly in charge of Miami's elite business community, practice a great deal of discrimination against non-Cubans.


You have a much more forgiving attitude toward the Cubans than most of the non-Cuban latinos I knew there.


That being said, there were some very nice Cubans I knew down there. A few of them were even democrats. At least they claim to be, But I can't help but think that the best of the Cuban people must still be on the island, and it's the robber barons who fled and mad Miami into what it is today.

[RagingInMiami]

99. It's getting better down here

I was born and raised here, but left more than ten years ago to travel the world, and I returned right before the election.

The Cubans are losing their power because Miami is becoming much more diverse with other latin americans who are moving here everyday.

I don't know when you left Miami, but I think the Miami Cubans started becoming less arrogant after the Elian Gonzalez fiasco. That was when they realized that not everybody sees the world through their eyes. It came as a shock to them.

Before the election, I volunteered for the Kerry campaign office, and it was right in front of Versaille in Little Havana, if you're familiar with that area. A lot of Cubans who had never voted democrat in their life were coming into the office and asking for kerry stickers.

There are still plenty of Cubans who love bush and drive around with that goddamn sticker on their cars and it does piss me off. Especially because it was the democrats who allowed them into this country in the first place to start a new life (kennedy, johnson and then carter).


As far as the word "latin" goes, that's just an english translantion of how all latin americans refer to themselves. In Spanish, we call ourselves Latinos, no matter what Latin American country you come from.

Hispanic is a word coined by Anglos. There is no Spanish translation. I didn't realize I was Hispanic until I moved to Arizona when an ex-gf told me "over here, you're hispanic".

Chicano means Mexican-American. Nobody is really certain of the origin of that word.

Anyway, here is a photo I took before the election of your typical right-wing cuban republican.

[UdoKier]

101. You mean the "Viva Bush" sticker? I HATE that one.

I lived there from 2000 to 2004. We left before Kerry won the primaries.

And I am quite familiar with Versailles. The closest I get to that den of vipers is when I pass the little branch they've opened at MIA.

And I like arepas a lot better than café Cubano.


I occasionally have to go back to Miami to work. I'm sorry but I'm always glad to get out of there. There's something so insane about the atmosphere down there that's just too much for me. And the right-wing Cubans are the creepiest of all. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they were the ones behind JFK's death. Many of the older guys spoke about him with the most unbelievable venom.

I know we are not supposed to generalize, but the people I found to be the nicest of all in Miami were the Haitians. They never seem to get a fair break, and so many people seem to look down on them, but I have had nothing but a wonderful time with them. What they must have left behind in Haiti must have been an absolute horror.

But I can see what the charm of Miami is for some people. For a hot-blooded person that likes a lot of excitement and drama, it might be ideal. I just prefer the life to be a bit more laid-back, and the weather a LOT cooler.

[RagingInMiami]

103. "For a hot-blooded person that likes a lot of excitement and drama"

You described it perfectly. Having grown up here, I find other places very boring. Everywhere else I've lived, people think I'm a little crazy (but in a good way). Down here, I'm normal.

And you're right about the haitians. They have gotten the shaft. But now they're organizing politically and I give it another generation and they will have someone powerful in office. They played a strong role in the kerry campaign.

Where do you live now? What part of Miami did you live when you were down here?

[UdoKier]

106. I live on the foggy side of San Francisco now.

I lived in "Brickell Village" the area between Brickell and Little Havana that used to be mid and low-income, but is quickly gentrifying.

The duplex we rented was being demolished to make way for yet another overpriced high-rise, so we decided to make our move, since we had been wanting to come back to California. We were roughly between Pogey's Pizza and the Brickell Publix, less than a block from the Brickell Metro Station.

Another gripe, Miami was way too suburban for us, mass transit is not practical there. Here we have plenty of transit options and don't always HAVE to drive.

We used to eat at the new Baja Fresh there a lot, or Chevy's, since there is almost no decent Mexican food in Miami. I can't believe people eat that swill from Taco Hell!


And the "tamales" they sell in the supermarket in Miami are NOT the tamales that I grew up with!


Food was quite an adjustment, since I grew up in El Paso, on the Mexican border. I was shocked that Cuban food is so bland...

But I had a nice Argentine co-worker who sometimes made wonderful meat empanadas.

My boss would serve black beans and rice with chicharrones at the annual Thanksgiving party. All the non-Cuban latins would bitch about the Cuban-centric menu, to no avail....


Oh and don't get me started on "tres leches" :puke:

Is there no such thing as "too sweet" in that culture?

[RagingInMiami]

107. I know El Paso well

I used to live in southern New Mexico, in a town called Deming, writing for the Las Cruces Sun-News.

Did you ever try that Mexican joint on Calle Ocho? It's not far from where you lived. I like it a lot and it's authentic.

Every Latin American country has tamales and they all do it completely different. My favorite is the Mexican tamal. I don't like the Cuban or Colombian variations.

Did you ever visit Tobacco Road, the oldest established bar in Miami? You were very close to it, practically walking distance.

And man, I can't help thinking that if you hated Miami between 2000-2004, you would have despised it during the 1980s.

[UdoKier]

108. I know by the way I bitch, it sounds like I hated it...

Okay, and maybe I kinda did, but I also liked it in some ways and it was a tremendous learning experience. It was every bit as much a culture shock as living in Japan for 5 years was. My wife always badgered me to go to the "El Mexicano" (right? With the big Aztec mural?), and we just never got around to it. Sadly, we went to that lousy burrito joint that's just on the other side of 95, in the shopping center with the McD's and Eckerds.

I agree on tamales. Mexican ones with the shredded beef inside (not that weird canned shit) are the BEST. And Flan is great too! One of my wife's favorite drinks is horchata. I guess we're just suited to the Southwest. Yes, I know Deming, home of the world's fastest ducks or something. I never spent much time there, but just passed through a few times. Talk about a TINY burg. No wonder you felt "bored in other towns"!

I also never got to go to Tobacco Road. We have two small kids and no budget for babysitters. I haven't been to a bar or nightclub in years. :( I did hear the loud music from it and some of the other clubs by the river when I rode my bike home from work late sometimes...


I've heard a lot about Miami in the 80's, and everyone says it was worse.

Even if it wasn't my cup of tea, Miami seems to be really coming into its own and has found a unique niche as a crossroads for Latin America and the US. It's never been more popular, and people are flocking there. If I was younger and single, I might have gotten more out of it. At least my kids and I enjoyed the awesome beach at Crandon Park.

[RagingInMiami]

111. Yes, it's El Mexicano

Very good food. Check it out if you come out here again. It's worth it and not expensive. I think I know what burrito place you're talking about. Moe's burritos or something. I've never tried it, but I do like baja fresh.

I was a newspaper reporter in deming and I covered the border and there was a lot of corruption in the town, so it wasn't that bad. It did suck socially, but that was my first real newspaper job so I was basically learning the trade.

I've also lived in Europe for a couple of years after college (at FIU) and that wasn't boring cause it was a huge learning experience for me as far as how people outside of Miami live. Having lived in Miami and in Colombia all my life before that, I just assumed the rest of the world was that fucked up.

I was wrong.

When I came back to the US from Europe, I lived in New Mexico, southern California and Arizona. I enjoyed california, but I hated Arizona.

[UdoKier]

113. LOL. My Grandma used to live in Phoenix. What a HELL HOLE.

She lived in "Sun City", the manicured old-folks town where there is not a single cigarette butt on the ground, anywhere, and nobody ever, ever goes over 15 mph.

I DESPISE Phoenix in every way possible, and LOVE Miami a thousand times more than Phoenix (guess it's all relative). Horrible, arrogant yupster snobs everywhere, UNBEARABLE 110~120 degree heat,, to the point that all the roads are full of cracks from the heat, and when you get in the car you can literally get third-degree burns from your steering wheel.

I'm not sure which is my least favorite city in America, but it's real close between Dallas and Phoenix.

My most vivid memory of Deming was when we stopped at a gas station (passing through) there were big signs all around the little Allsup's store advertising specials - for beer. like 12 signs, and every single sign was for beer, nothing else. It was then that I realized that there is really only one thing to do in Deming - and I continued on my way to the "big metropolis" of El Paso...

We had a good neighbor and friend who was from Colombia. It sounds very scary down there. But even he found Miami to be too much (plus, he wanted to learn more English) and he moved to Portland Oregon. The rent is much cheaper and they are happy ovver there. He's going to school to be an engineer (one of those jobs that Americans aren't interested in lately...)

[RagingInMiami]

114. Yes, Phoenix is the worst city in the US, in my opinion

I lived in Tempe, which is the most liberal and laid-back of all the cities in that metropolitan area, but it still sucked.

I hated the heat. I hated the fact that it doesn't cool down at night during the summer. You go from 120 to 105 degrees. That's ridiculous.

I hated the cookie cutter neighborhoods. And why the fuck is everything so brown in that town? It's bad enough that there is no grass and the ground is brown, but do they have to make every building, shopping center and house brown as well?

My friend from Miami visiting called it "brown town".

And because it's now the fifth largest city in the country (there are no natural barriers so it can keep growing), the people there act as if they are so cosmopolitan and hip and cultured and they have no fucking clue.

That is probably why I came back to Miami, embracing all its problems, disfunctions and attitudes.

[shanti]

116. mmmm, tres leches

have you ever been to porto's cuban bakery in glendale (socal)? it's the best!

[kwassa]

127. The Versailles restaurant in LA on Venice Boulevard is great, too!

wonderful marinated roast pork, platanos, black beans and rice.

[UdoKier]

65. Statistically, computer ownership and use is still lower

among black and brown people.


If you or the original poster have constructive ideas for bringing more people of color into the discussion, why not put them on the table rather than just bitching generically about DU being "too white"?


And it was meant to be a HUMOROUS post...

:eyes:

[Chovexani]

87. Statistically that may be the case

But at any rate, want a constructive idea for bringing more people of color into DU? Here's one:

How about not making blanket statements about people of color, assuming entire ethnic groups are monolithic entities that all have the same interests, education (or lack thereof) and socio-economic status?

There's a brilliant fucking idea, right there.

See this site for more helpful hints: http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/

[enigmatic]

89. I LOVE blackpeopleloveus.com!

Hysterically funny, and pretty much dead-on..

[Chovexani]

92. Me too

Sad that there seems to be so many Sallies and Johnnies around here. :(

[shanti]

117. don't forget the

beckys and biffs....:rofl:

[UdoKier]

94. Who the hell did that?

"How about not making blanket statements about people of color, assuming entire ethnic groups are monolithic entities that all have the same interests, education (or lack thereof) and socio-economic status?"

Who the hell did that? I made a sarcastic comment in answer to a meaningless, gripey post that said absolutely nothing. (And it's not the first time the same complaint has been raised)

Look, the crowd here at DU also seems to be a bit upscale compared to the real world I know, but I don't just come on here bitching "There are too many rich and upper-middle class posters and not enough poor ones! Damned if I have any ideas how to change it but I'm just gonna bitch about it!"

Or maybe you're just saying that DUers in general do that. In that case, I still disagree, because they don't. Most DUers are very cool people, and I can't imagine what political discussion board would make them feel more welcome.

[entanglement]

37. Nice post

The online community is a highly skewed subset of the general population and is very far from representative. Moreover, (many) online discussion forums are not exactly 'comfort zones' for people of color and even those who are online may prefer to stick to safer web activities. It is hard to hear the voices of people of color, the poor of all races and immigrants on the Net just as in the real world.

[Chovexani]

49. If online communities aren't comfort zones for people of color

One only need look to some of the utterly, nay, spectacularly ignorant responses on this thread for reasons.

Apparently us colored folk all read Ebony and Low Rider, are too poor to own computers, live in the hood, and speak/type in Ebonics and "can't relate" to the Internet. I guess I should tell my D&D group (95% of whom are Black, Latino, or otherwise multiracial) to stop playing and quit dressing up in costume for anime cons because we aren't properly representing our respective cultures.

Jesus Christ on a fucking trailer hitch...the stupid, it burns, precious. </Gollum>

[Pithy Cherub]

55. Yo Chovexani! Word up & True Dat!

:pals: :hi: Aiiet! Where do you get your bling-bling...:rofl:

[Chovexani]

57. Hee!

Um...does polyhedral dice count as bling-bling? LOL

[RagingInMiami]

59. I agree

I think liberals mean well when they talk about reaching out to people of other cultures, but many times, they fall into stupid stereotypes.

As a Colombian-American who was born and raised in Miami, I can't tell you how many times Anglo people in Arizona asked me for my opinion on Mexican food when I was living out there. They just naturally assume all Latinos are like the poor Mexicans crossing the border illegally (People I support whole-heartedly, by the way).

But not even all Mexicans can be placed in that category. There all levels of social, geographic and economic levels in that country. Most, I can assure you, do not read Low Rider.

Funny how this was posted today because when I lived in Arizona, my Anglo co-workers would wish me a Happy Cinco de Mayo every year.

First I'm not Mexican, second it's a holiday created by beer companies that is hardly recognized in Mexico.

It wouldn't offend me cause I think they meant well, they were just uninformed.

Now that I'm back in Miami, most of my friends are Latinos. They are educated. Liberal. Professionals. Not only do they all own computers, they know how to use them. And they are aware of DU cause I talk about it.

Yet, they show no interest in joining DU.

I also have plenty of Latino journalist friends living all over the country that hate Bush as much as we do.

It's not that they're not interested in politics. One of my Peruvian friends who lives in NY writes a daily blog that bashes bush (link below). Yet, he shows no interest in DU.

http://brunon.blogspot.com/

[Chovexani]

90. I feel your pain.

As the designated "Black friend" to several well-meaning but clueless white liberals, I'm often the go-to girl for opinions on what The Black Community(tm) thinks about this or that issue. It's maddening but I cut them slack because it seems like no matter how much you explain otherwise, there are white people who simply can't get that <insert minority group> is not a homogenous, Borg-like entity with the same thoughts, opinions, interests, social background, etc.

I agree that white liberals mean well when they make a commitment to diversity but I think they're their own worst enemies sometimes. They don't recognize the irony in trying to make a community "comfortable" for people of color while throwing assumptions around like mad, using exclusionary language ("we" when they mean "white DUers", etc.), patently ignoring the people of color who get involved in said discussions and/or spouting statistics at us in an attempt to invalidate what we say.

The whole thing is a circle jerk that would be hilarious if it weren't so depressing. This pic from one of my favorite websites sums it up far better than I ever could:

[RagingInMiami]

96. That's a cool shot

I think it gets better everyday for American society, more people are becoming aware of the differences and similarities of other cultures. I'm not just talking about whites understanding blacks and latinos, but latinos and blacks understanding whites.
And blacks and latinos understanding each other for that matter.
Down here in Miami, there had been a lot of tension between latinos(well, cubans) and blacks. This was because during and after the civil rights movements of the 1960s, when many blacks across the south were finally getting their rights, the cubans who had arrived by the boatloads started taking all the menial jobs that the blacks had always taken for granted, pushing them lower on the economic totem pole.
It got so bad that in 1980, after four white cops were acquitted for beating a black motorcyclist to death (arthur mcduffie was an ex-marine who had no criminal record), the black community rioted for three straight days. Many whites were killed and many blacks were killed in retaliation.
It happened again in 1982 and again in 1989.
Keep in mind this was all before the notorious LA riots over Rodney King.
But I see things getting better down here as well as throughout the United States. It's discussions like this that educate people about cultural diversity.

[Solon]

100. I think part of the problem is lack of familiarity with a variety....

of people. I'm a White Boy from the Burbs(TM), but, oddly enough, I had a rather diverse group of friends. I was raised, for the first 10 years of my life, on a single street within the burbs that was mostly apartments and small townhouses, i.e. the poor neighborhood. Our little group, growing up(think the sandlot, etc.) consisted of me, 2 other white friends(one with two moms) an African American, a Philipino, and my first girlfriend, a Native American. There was never any "reaching out" for any of us on our little dead-end street, we all just hung out together, got in trouble together, and just had fun. Never had any walls, or issues due to skin color or culture, part of that would be our parents just not caring who any of us hung out with as long as they had decent parents, yes even including the two moms. :)

I'm 27 years old now, and to this day, I don't understand racism in white people, nor do I understand the beef people have with same sex marriage or any other issue with those of other cultures. I remember one time, I was working as a Security Guard, and at the post I worked at, no one else was white. The funny thing was that we hung out after work(all around the same age) partied, whatever. What was odd was their reaction to me, I was just another member of this little "clique" where I fit in, I just acted myself, not any different, but they said I WAS different from other white people they knew. I honestly don't know why that is, but it is a fact I guess. So for me, this whole "clueless white boy" syndrom I guess doesn't apply. I just treat people as individuals, and they treat me in kind, more often than not.

[Solon]

98. Hey next time I'm in NY, can I join the D&D group?

Its hard as hell to find compatible gaming groups around here(St. Louis), hope you have room for a white boy :)

[Catherine Vincent]

38. Some of you are being too harsh with the original poster's intent.

Let's go with African American. Most African Americans (that vote) vote democrat, so maybe the OP thought there would be more african american faces in the gallery. A few posters pointed out that the gallery is not representative of DU as a whole and that's true. Besides some posters may not want to reveal their race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc etc.

I don't know why some of you are taking offense at the OP.

[fishnfla]

40. Well for me it was the posit that we are no different that FR

because of the way we look, or the way the people in the gallery look.
Racism, whatever.

[Chovexani]

56. My problem isn't with the OP

My problem is with a lot of the replies, some of which make borderline racist assumptions about people of color and how we live/what we do online. (Note to white DUers: not all POC live in "the hood" and read Ebony, and there are plenty of us involved in geeky fandoms)

[CTyankee]

41. I have to agree with posters

who say it is a matter of social class. I recently retired (partially, as lots of retirees find them selves having to do). Now that I have more time, and a home computer, I can post more messages on DU. So there could be a tilt to the white middle class who are at retirement age (I am 65).

[sweetheart]

42. The digital divide is real

The fact is, that only the wealthiest households have computers, and
whilst few of us consider ourselves wealthy, the fact remains that we
are an endemic sample of that very set. As well, to participate on DU,
you need to be able to write coherently, even type, and you need to
be able to stand up to the cultural basis of discussion.

If you grew up in a poor inner city area and are likely more ethnic,
you might speak spanish better than english, and so where is our
spanish forum? You might have a different sense of communication, and
do we have a forum where art is used to talk, digitial white boards,
and not words? How about a forum where the discussion is really in
music, a sort of collective jamm. The medium is created by the white
educated computer generation and has yet to cater to other modes and
ethnicities in a pragmatic sense.

I've encountered people on Pravda's free speech forums who believe that
computers and internet usage should be 100% of the population by
government support, much as how most all households have telephones
these days. This would then at least address the fact of the poverty
divide. Howver, unless you're ready to train up and get an inner city
teaching job, the education gap will remain the primary disabler.

I forgot to mention, prompted by this word "disable", a way in forums,
for blind and disabled people who are not very keyboard capable, to
interact... perhaps its not possible, but indeed, we must respect
that we are the very lucky ones, with our health and so much good
fortune in life that puts us in the very highest percentiles of the
global wealth population.

[paineinthearse]

45. I didn't know there was a gallery, thus my pic is not there

Hardly a scientific sample of membership.

All this sample proves is 98% of all with pics there are white.

[Kipepeo]

76. I've noticed a lot of people saying the gallery is not

representative...and if that's true then why is it that white posters are more inclined to post pics?

I am not trying to argue - just explaining why I'm one of the ones who take the gallery at face value (pun not intended) :) as a representative sample, because I can't imagine why there would be a greater number of white DUers who know of the gallery/are inclined to post there.

[Chovexani]

91. Maybe because we can't be bothered to deal with people's bullshit

Maybe some of us would rather live without the "OHHH! I had no idea so-and-so was black" comments and the inevitable attempts to go all "Black People Love Us" on us. People have a tendency to want to place you in a box, in my experience. And before you say I'm being paranoid and reverse racist, this has happened to me so many freaking times online it's not even funny. Just recently on my livejournal, come to think of it.

I used to lie about my race as a matter of routine back when I was an active MUD player (well, lie by omission). Mainly because I found that whenever I did tell people I was black I found people treated me differently. Whether it was people not taking my opinions on various things as seriously, or "chocolate chaser" white boys who wanted the exotic thrills of hooking up with a "sista". (Hell, I also used to almost exclusively play male characters because I was tired of being hit on but that's another story...)

I obviously don't feel that way anymore, because situations like this make it clear IMHO that POC need to "come out" online, if only to challenge horseshit assumptions like the ones being so casually tossed about this thread.

...or, you know, it could just be that some of us don't have digital cameras. Or are fearful of putting personal info on the 'Net. Or didn't know there was a Gallery. Or any of the other myriad reasons why someone wouldn't put their picture online. :)

[Kipepeo]

93. well fwiw I wasn't going to say you were being paranoid

or reverse racist. :) Reverse racism is a made-up term by racist-apologists imo, but I was wondering, since some people put forth that the gallery is not representative (ie there is no diversity problem on our messageboard, just a difference in who wants to post pics) why that would be?

Either way there is a question: is there a lack of diversity on DU or are there just more white people posting pics (and if so, why?)

This is the best explanation I have seen if the answer is the latter:

"Maybe some of us would rather live without the "OHHH! I had no idea so-and-so was black" comments and the inevitable attempts to go all "Black People Love Us" on us. People have a tendency to want to place you in a box, in my experience. And before you say I'm being paranoid and reverse racist, this has happened to me so many freaking times online it's not even funny. Just recently on my livejournal, come to think of it."

I just never hear people say that; when they say the gallery is not representative there is usually never a *why.* I think people would rather imply it's because of that last part of your post...fearful of digital cameras or not wanting to post a pic on the net...which to me doesn't answer the question anyway because those fears don't seem to be race related to me....or they could be but I've never seen that written here either.

does that make sense?

[wildeyed]

46. I am involved in two activist groups.

One gets most of its membership from the internet. It is 80-90% white and 80-90% middle/upper middle class. My other group exists mostly in the real world. It is wildly diverse in both racial and economic make up. The second group also gets much more accomplished.

So I don't know what that says exactly about DU, just my experience with internet/non-internet organizing.

Maybe post this in AA Affairs Group? If you are really interested in why this site is not attracting more diversity (if that is even true, I don't know) that would be the place to get some insight.

[lildreamer316]

63. Actually, all it says...

...is that the economy is as we always have known it; non-benificial to those in "minority" In other words, they can't really afford a computer or the time to be on one; having to work so hard for their money. I bet if they all could, they would be on here in a heartbeat.( I got really lucky; no stones thrown from a glass house here). Such a shame we are missing out on all of that great input. Again,as I point out below, let's solve this problem by concetrating our energy on the ones that created it. Just trying to mentally herd us all in one direction.......

[shance]

48. The post shows how empathetic and aware you are

and you are concerned about an important and largely overlooked issue.

Very inciteful post. Thanks.

[undeterred]

51. I attended a Camp Wellstone earlier this year-

my first activist event. I was very pleased to see the diversity of age and race and interest among the committed progressives at that weekend. I'm not sure how one would measure the diversity on a message board like this one- maybe its more diverse than it appears, or maybe there are differences in how attached to their computers people are.

[SmileyBoy]

69. Maybe it has something to do with economics after all...

I'm just wondering how we can do something to get more people of racial diversity to utilize the internet for activism in the future.

[H2O Man]

54. Bagism.

John & Yoko taught that healthy communication could be best accomplished from inside a large bag. People will not make silly judgements based on age, sex, ethnic group, etc. We have a form of internet bagism here, where people can be judged on the content of their posts, not the outside wrappings.

[Misunderestimator]

71. I like that, "Bagism."

That's pretty much the long and short of it.

[H2O Man]

120. Yep.

I'm not concerned with where someone's ancestors came from. I don't care how much they weigh. I do care about their opinions.

[lildreamer316]

58. Okay; look--ALL of you.

I understand the original poster's intent and concern; and it is a possibly valid one ( I say not having been on here more than 10 months or so; therefore cannot judge completely). HOWEVER, I do think they are just not paying attention closely enough (there are a decent number of pagans on here; we have essentially 2 groups; how could you miss that?) and more importantly (yes I'm going to yell) GWB and the GOP DON"T CARE WHAT COLOR OR RELIGION YOU ARE (REALLY) THEY'RE GOING TO SERIOUSLY HURT ALL OF US!! PLEASE spend this energy on that good fight. C'mon guys. Get with it. These goin's on around here are way more serious than anything else. My baby son may have great appreciation for diversity, but it won't do him or the world much good if he's damaged in brain or body or worse. Just one 32 year old southern white pagan heritage part native's opinion. sorry.

[CatWoman]

60. I'm black, age 49, and at our last gathering

everyone was surprised. They were expecting a white woman in her older years. Go figure.

[Catherine Vincent]

61. I'm not black....I'm colored.

It says that on my bc and I'm sticking with it!

:hi:

[Blue-Jay]

62. You should come to a Chicago meetup.

We only expect drunken debauchery. Anything else is a non-issue.

[CatWoman]

64. SQUIRREL!!!!!!

:hi:

[ulysses]

66. *everyone* was surprised?

;-) :hi:

[CatWoman]

68. heh

well, *almost* everyone :hi:

[SmileyBoy]

67. I knew you were black. I think I saw your pic, right??

You were at a get-together a couple years ago...

[CatWoman]

70. yup

but there were several DUers there who had never met me.

[RagingInMiami]

72. I knew you were black even before you posted that thread a while back

Cause I had seen your photo.

[0007]

121. Howdy CatWoman!

:hi:

[CatWoman]

122. Hi, Jerry

:hi:

:loveya:

[Carni]

124. It's the cat pics in your sig line LOL

People immediately assume *elderly white woman* when they see cat pics! ;)

[CatWoman]

139. ROFL

My brother says I remind him of that crazy lady on the Simpsons who goes around throwing cats at everybody :D

[MODemocrat]

73. Pardon my ignorance, but what are Fundie Christians?

Seriously, I don't know what fundie means, and am embarrassed by my lack of knowledge in many trendy words used on this and other forums.
:hi: :shrug:

[Pithy Cherub]

78. Fundie is a derivative of fundamentalist.

Can apply that term to any rigid group (usually religious)that dogma or a literal translation is used rather than a more expansive or liberal interpretation. Hope that helps! :hug:

[MODemocrat]

82. Thank you P C for clearing that up for me

I should have figured that out, but couldn't apparently.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. A freeper on another board

who I 'debate' just accused me of being black. Does that count? :)

[lildreamer316]

75. "accused" you?

like it's a choice and you made a bad one? What a F***er!!

Boy, DU's got me in a tiz tonight....maybe I should have a drink.:beer:

[Catherine Vincent]

80. You may want another drink.

Did you see the thread where the church in North Carolina dismissed all voters who voted for Kerry?

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. Sorry bad choice of words

He is a bigot and in his world, it was an accusation. It makes me less valuable to him. He is a racist pig. He got kicked off of that board for a while for calling Muslims 'towel heads'. He also regularly posts crap blaming blacks for every evil that bothers him. He is a piece of work.

And you'll love this part - his avatar is a cross with a ray of light behind it. :puke:

Here, let me buy you a :beer:. Sorry I didn't explain better in my first post.

[lildreamer316]

84. No prob..just annoyed in general

Thanks for the drinks guys! And yes, I did see about the church...one of the things that has contributed to my current state of rage. Deep breaths.......

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. Well if you feel like raging at an idiot

freeper bigot, PM me and I will send you a link to the board where he is. :)

[MODemocrat]

77. Apparently there is diversity

I'm caucasian, but look, even at my old age of 72, I'm welcome on this board, and even get responses to some of my postings. I really love it here.
:dem: :grouphug:

[Catherine Vincent]

79. I love it here too.

:hi:

[yorkiemommie1]

88. i didn't post my picture because 1: i don't know how

and 2: i wouldn't anyway because i'm :hide:


but i can make mean wontons and eggrolls when i have a mind to!

so that makes me....?

i appreciate the spirit behind your post; I know you had only good intentions.

Aloha!

[kineneb]

97. lemme see here...

first let's address the income issue...
poor people, of whatever skin tone, are too busy trying to figure out how they are going to make the meal out of "not enough", so we need to visit the food give-away...some are fortunate enough to have had a better income at one time and have a computer, like us...others lack the education and interest to even use a computer, much less the Internet...
and some are Luddites who simply won't touch them...

as to diversity, me- female, "white"(I prefer "pinky-beige"), European ancestry, 46, over-educated, one of the rare native-born Californios, Buddhist, Linux fan, RPG player(Traveller), knitter, living-history participant, bilingual English/German, with an Iranian step-family

...so, like, gag me, like how diverse do you want me to be? B-)

[Hardrada]

104. What about Poland?

Where are the Europeans nowadays. I remember posts from other countries especially Dirk in Germany. We are (or have been) an even more divers group than we realize.

[alittlelark]

110. I am not in the gallery

I am an upper-middle class white female. Does that make me worthless? My husband is Russo-Judaic. Does that help my cause? I have 6000+ posts, does that help? My best friend is Persian (and is terrified that her family will get blown away)..does that help?
Let's just thionk of people as people and not assign color classifications.

Liberals are FREE THINKERS... their race or religion do not matter.

I understand the gist of what you were trying to say... but it fails in the rainbow light of day.

[RagingInMiami]

112. BTW, it's "cojones" not "cajones"

I was just thinking how a few weeks ago, there was such a strong sentiment on DU against the illegal immigrants crossing the border from Mexico, that it's probably no wonder why more Latinos are not posting here.

They can get that attitude anywhere else. Why would they voluntarily submit themselves to that?

[Lab2112]

136. Latinos are not a monolithic group

But as a fellow Latino (or Hispanic, if you prefer), I'm of the opinion that you already know this.

I'm stating the obvious for the purpose of making the following point: Mexicans are not representative of the entire Latino culture.

For example, when my family first arrived here from the Dominican Republic, I had never tasted, much less seen, a taco, a burrito, or even called beans "frijoles."

As another example, I was nonplussed to hear an automobile called a "coche" by an Argentinian friend I met at school.

This doesn't mean that Latinos as a whole cannot empathize with the plight of their brethren from other nations, as is the case with Mexican nationals crossing the southern U.S. border. Of course not. On the other hand, I very much doubt that a majority of Peruanos got all worked up by the soap opera of Elian Gonzales. This doesn't mean they don't care about the Cuban-American community. It just doesn't impact their day-to-day existence.

Therefore, I don't see how the anti-illegal immigration discussion on DU would dissuade Latinos from posting, unless there's the assumption that most Latinos think and feel the same way. I think Latinos are diverse as a group, and with that diversity, comes a diversity of opinion and political stances.

However, this is just my own experience and my opinion; I'm not trying to negate your own view in the matter, please bear that in mind.

As to the OP of this thread: I do find it very credible that the majority of the Democratic Party is composed of European-Americans (or white people, if you prefer). I also find it very credible the the Republican Party is far less ethnically diverse.

In either case, I say, so what? I don't believe in playing cards of any kind, be they race, gender or religious. I also realize this makes me a minority twice over in either major political party. That's fine by me.

LAB

[Swamp Rat]

115. Os Americanos são doidinhos!

:crazy:

Não é "cajones," é "cojones." :D

[ProfessorGAC]

126. And, Your Point Is What?

Some of us should leave because we're white? What is the point of this observation, other than to look for a solution in search of a real problem?

It's a site for like-minded individuals and we are who we are. If you want to troll other sites and try to recruit people of color to DU, have at it. But absent that, you seem to be belaboring an obvious point that the majority of liberal and moderate democrats are still white people. Maybe not the 98% you stated, but a majority nonetheless. Simple statistical extension would suggest that most DU'ers would, indeed, be white. That's not exculsionary, it's just a numerical tautology.
The Professor

[geniph]

128. The Gallery has maybe 200 pictures

There've been nearly 70,000 DU registrations. Do the math. The Gallery is not representative - not even proportionally - of those who post here. Not to mention the tens of thousands who read posts here, but choose not to register and post themselves. I think you're making an assumption based on false premises.

Now, that being said, simply because this is on the Internet, you'll self-select to some degree for a higher percentage of white males in their late teens to late 30s, many of whom may even still live in mom's basement. But that stereotype of an Internet user is changing, too.

I might also point out that there is no way for you to tell from someone's photograph what their ethnic background is. I'm part Cherokee. I'm also white-skinned and redheaded.

[BronxBoy]

129. SmileyBoy

I understand what you are trying to say but I think you are overlooking the most important type of diversity that's present here and that is the diversity of ideas. I don't have the patience to read the freeper sites but when I have, I was struck by the lack of intellectual diversity that was being expressed.

You only need to read some of the threads on abortion, Castro or Red Blue States to see that there is a wide range of opinions on a wide range of subjects here and to me that is far more important than the racial and religious composition of the posters.

I'm black and I enjoy it here. What I really like to know is with all these attempts at forced diversity lately. It's like this big push to diversify NASCAR. I'm sure there are black folks who enjoy auto racing. But I gotta tell ya, most of the black I know could give 2 shits about nascar. But here we have some major initiatives to diversify nascar. I don't get it.

[RagingInMiami]

133. You don't get it?

Blacks have money. NASCAR wants money.

They see it as a huge market that they have not tapped into yet.

And let's face it, if they can get black people into NASCAR (probably not in our lifetime), they will finally be able to shed that image of NASCAR being the sport of the toothless redneck.

[BronxBoy]

135. I see what you're saying

and you're right.

It's just that I can't see the boys in the bronx plunking down a bunch of bucks to sit amid a sea of confederate flags to watch cars race around a track.

If it does happen, I'll know I've died and gone to hell

[RagingInMiami]

137. That will never happen

I don't follow NASCAR so I have no idea what they're trying to do, but I would hope they would initially target blacks in the rural south before they try to reach urban blacks.

[CornField]

134. This was probably already said, but even if you saw my photo you would not

be able to tell my ethnic make-up. Most folks are able to see the English and Irish, but very few see the Native American. And, truth be told, I don't really know exactly how many different ethnic profiles are a part of my genes --- I doubt many Americans do. So many of us are just typical American mutts. :)

I've actually never sat and considered the various skin tones which might - or might not - be a part of the DU family. Then again, that's not something that I tend to notice in real life either. Since the Internet is the great equalizer, I assumed we had disabled persons, black persons, white persons, yellow persons, asshat persons, wonderful persons, religious persons, cross-eyed persons, older persons, and probably-every-other-type-of-person persons.

[JI7]

140. most people don't make mention of their race/religion

and if they do it's usually if it has to do with the issue being discussed. that's how i found out many people's backgrounds.