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Look also at Porter Baptist, Ky, 'Men's Night Out' = Military Recruitment

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WebeBlue Donating Member (415 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:22 PM
Original message
Look also at Porter Baptist, Ky, 'Men's Night Out' = Military Recruitment
When I saw the story on East Waynesville Baptist Church in N.C. barring members who have democratic affiliations, I remembered something I had sent to USA Today about another Baptist Church story. While it's not exactly related, it has parallels in that the Porter Baptist Church, KY, had a 'Men's Night Out' on Jan 29, 2005 which was touted as honoring the military but was more like military recruitment in the church. There actually were military recruiters with a recruitment table, brochures at this event.

I sent the info to USA Today as I was among military families selected to serve on their military families panel. USA Today did not do anything with the info I sent, and I understand why not, but ... see for yourself Porter Baptist Church own website promo for this event and you may see and share my concern.

http://www.pmbcmensnightout.com/


The relevance (in my mind) to the Waynesville Baptist (N.C.) story is that both are Baptist denomination, both southern states, and while Waynesville clearly crossed the line, I think so did Porter Baptist. See the blog for photos showing what happened at the 'Men's Night Out' at Porter Baptist, blogged at Shlonkom Bakazay?

http://shlonkombakazay.blogspot.com/2005/02/efficient-version-holy-st-its-fascist.html

Your opinion?
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. I read that - it's all connected. the bushgang had a pastors meeting


the criminal bushgang invited a lot of pastors, ministers, preachers, whatever to a meeting. that's where the churches got their to-do lists.

think it was held in Texas?
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. I can just see Jesus recruiting men to fight the Romans
Whats wrong with that picture?
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. There is actually something
In the Bible about Jesus telling a soldier to go on soldiering, isn't there? I'm not sure what point it's meant to illustrate, though.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. There is actually something
Edited on Fri May-06-05 05:45 PM by Donald Ian Rankin
In the Bible about Jesus telling a soldier to go on soldiering, isn't there? I'm not sure what point it's meant to illustrate, though.


Edit:
My apologies for posting this twice. What's the standard thing to do in this circumstance, please?
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Justice Sunday was also a Baptist Church.
I'll post this again - since it's relevant to this. In the Democracy Now! interview REV. JOSEPH PHELPS - also a Baptist explains. He held a counter rally to " Justice Sunday" - about Social Justice.

----------------------------------------------------------
<snip>

AMY GOODMAN: Explain the Baptist Church here. I mean, you're Baptist. Mohler is Baptist. What's the difference?

REV. JOSEPH PHELPS: Well, we both -- we share in common our desire to see God's will done on earth as in heaven. I'm a graduate of the Southern Seminary back in the late 1970s, where our mission at the time was we're out to change the world, which sounds sort of domination-like, but our agenda was to try to follow the way of Jesus, of love, of unity, of hope, casting a different vision, the day when the lion and the lamb lie down together, or the elephant and the donkey lie down together. We work together in love. In the late 1970s there was a takeover. Ostensibly the issue was the Bible, but the real issue was control: who gets to decide how the Bible's interpreted, whether women could be ministers, what the agenda of the Church will be. And slowly, but effectively, they took over the leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention. As a result, we're able to appoint trustees, who then appointed Dr. Mohler as president, who completely cleaned house at the seminary. Southern Seminary used to be one of the top ten theological institutions in the world. All of those professors have now been fired or forced out, and --

AMY GOODMAN: On what grounds? On what grounds?

REV. JOSEPH PHELPS: Just on theological grounds, on the grounds that they weren't conforming to the strict literal in their interpretation of the Bible, as is prescribed by Dr. Mohler and the new takeover group. The reason this is important, I think, to your larger audience, as I said earlier, is because this group's agenda now bleeds over, not only into beyond the issue of the Southern Baptist Convention, to our larger culture. That same kind of domination agenda -- which says we're right, you're wrong; we're going to save you from yourself by telling you not only what the Bible says, but now what the Constitution says -- has enormous implications for our democracy.

<snip>

AMY GOODMAN: But what is the feeling here about where Baptists fit in, and about the role of politics in religion?

REV. JOSEPH PHELPS: Well, Baptists, because of the domination of Southern Seminary on the national, and now Mohler, in particular, on the national landscape, it has fairly large footprint here in Louisville, Kentucky. But there's also a large presence of sort of the former ideology of Southern Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, which I think stands bravely and strongly over against this domination kind of mindset. It's ironic, because we both aspire to the same vision of God's will being done on earth as in heaven, proclaiming Jesus, talking about the Bible. We both do those things every Sunday. But how we play those out is enormously different. Here in Louisville, I would say the mood is greatly divided over whether the view espoused by Al Mohler, which was -- and “Justice Sunday,” which implied that that represented all people of faith -- was a legitimate one, and that's one of the reasons why we felt compelled to stand up and say, you don't represent people of faith, and besides that, what you're saying is inaccurate. And we don't know whether you are being inaccurate in your statement intentionally or accidentally, but this filibuster is not against these people because of their religious stand. Finally, I think that Baptists historically have been people who have espoused religious liberty. I'll make a prompt to the Baptist Joint Committee on Religious Liberty. one of the champions of religious liberty in Washington trying to hold a clear and, I believe, accurate understanding of what the First Amendment is about. The new Baptist regime, though, the takeover regime wants to fight that kind of mindset. They are anti-disestablishment people. They don't like the disestablishment of religion.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean disestablishment?

REV. JOSEPH PHELPS: Well, the Constitution, the First Amendment sought to disestablish religion, to not have an established religion. In junior high school, I learned this long word with 28 letters, antidisestablishmentarianism. I never knew what it meant. Now I do. It is Al Mohler and that group. They want to redesign, redefine our nation's history, no longer being disestablishment people, but going back and creating a strict religious theocracy.

<more>

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/05/1429230
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WebeBlue Donating Member (415 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Tx Bloom, Great elaboration in exploring what the Baptist church
seems to mean and stand for these days. I remember when I was a child, military brat, so moved a lot, and wound up in a southern state and actually went to a Baptist church for a short while. I do not remember that experience as anything close to what I'm hearing and reading now about the Baptist church. Take-over sounds about right.
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WebeBlue Donating Member (415 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. a bit more from DK diary
adding this from Daily Kos diary on the same..more info re: takeover of Baptist Church.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/5/211218/4946




Folks, settle down...
this has been going on for a long time.

In 1992 at the Republican National Convention, Pat Buchanan declared "there is a culture war going on in America" and proceeded to worry about gay people vs people of faith.

In 1987 Bill Moyers did a three and a half hour program called God and Politics, in which Moyers, himself a Baptist, mourned the Southern Baptist Synod's takover by the "reconstructionists" who hold that "the Bible should be the basis of all government, laws, and economic systems". (http://www.pinespby.org/rc/videos_efgh.html - scroll down or search "moyers")

In Salem, Massachusetts in the 17th century they were burning women at the stake, calling them witches. Casting out unbelievers from their towns.

The religious ancesters of these people caused a string of civil wars and the overthrow of the English monarchy. Oliver Cromwell figured heavily in this, became Lord Protector of England, and "Cromwell's army slaughtered over forty percent of the indigenous Irishmen, who clung unyieldingly to Catholicism and loyalist sentiments; the remaining Irishmen were forcibly transported to County Connaught with the Act of Settlement in 1653." (http://www.britannia.com/history/monarchs/mon48.html)

We have to fight it with everything we have, including history and the understanding it can bring.
</i>
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