18,314 Americans die each year for a lack of health care.

[Bouncy Ball]

THIS IS IMMORAL.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0522-05.htm

"The estimated death toll includes about 1,400 people with high blood pressure, 400 to 600 with breast cancer and 1,500 diagnosed with HIV."

This is America. I grew up hearing about how this is "the greatest country on earth." I've always heard this is the richest nation in the world.

So does the richest (is that still true?), greatest nation on earth let its citizens die of treatable illnesses? Do we just turn our backs? Is that what America is about?

"Uninsured people with colon or breast cancer face a 50% higher risk of death.

Uninsured trauma victims are less likely to be admitted to the hospital, receive the full range of needed services, and are 37% more likely to die of their injuries.

Being uninsured also magnifies the risk of death and disability for chronically sick and mentally ill patients, poor people and minorities, who disproportionately lack access to medical care..."

I've been doing a lot of research into this problem since I first suggested a march on Washington of the medically uninsured and underinsured the other day. (Some day, I'll sleep again.) I've talked to the research associate at PNHP (Physicians for a National Healthcare Program) today and learned they are strongly in favor of HR 676--The National Health Insurance Bill, which is a single-payer plan. Conyers is sponsoring it and is asking for more sponsors. (www.pnhp.org) I urge you to contact your representatives in Congress to support this plan.

I've read enough solid plans on different sites to realize this idea that it's too hard or can't be done is nothing but a LIE. The plan that PNHP proposes, for example, would not only take care of the problem, but would be cost-effective, as well. Most people don't realize the interconnectedness of this problem: those who are uninsured and underinsured end up at your already overworked/underfunded county hospitals and guess who pays more in taxes because of it? ALL OF US. And that's just one way it affects us all.

So this isn't about it not being possible. We are one of the last industrialized countries to let our citizens lead lives in pain and die because of a lack of health care. (High blood pressure??? Are you kidding me with that? 1,400 Americans each year die from high blood pressure SIMPLY because they do not have health insurance and probably beause they cannot afford the blood pressure meds.)

What this IS about:

1. The hold the insurance and pharma industry lobbies have on Congress. They are industries--they do not want to give up that profit, that's the nature of an industry. But they are profiting at the expense, literally, of human lives.

2. A lack of understanding/information about this problem on the part of everyday people. Too many think nothing can be done. Too many are completely unaware about HOW many people this affects. Too many who have health insurance think it doesn't affect them (it does, in many different ways). Too many who don't have insurance are too busy trying to deal with chronic pain/chronic illnesses to even think about how to solve this problem.

PNHP directed me to an organization for citizens which has the same goals as they do: The Campaign for a National Health Program Now! (http://www.cnhpnow.org)

I've put in a call to them to see if they are interested in joining us in this march (still in the early planning stages, for anyone interested, but if you'd like to spread the word to your state forum, PLEASE DO. We need all the help we can get....).

This cannot stand. Imagine a country in which people could go to the doctor whenever they were sick, a country in which people didn't have to decide between food or medication that week, a country in which kids didn't miss 1/4 of the school year because of untreated illnesses.

Right now, that country isn't America.

[leftofthedial]

1. Murka is still #1 in something

Illegal invasions and occupations

[Jo March]

2. kick - this is sickening

I can't believe the money that some of these corporations make while Americans are literally dying from lack of health care.

bouncy, I do hope that you sleep again! LOL.

Kicked and nominated.

[gWbush is Mabus]

3. $72 million bonus for Halliburton

[Jim__]

4. Where are the "respect life" people?

Well, I guess this is a money issue too; so, we have to be realistic. Don't we?

[Bouncy Ball]

5. Exactly.

This is immoral, this is about life.

Where are the "pro-life" people when a kid dies of untreated asthma?

Where are the "pro-life" people when a man in his 40s who works three part-time jobs (ie: no benefits) dies from untreated high blood pressure?

[Just Me]

6. Great work, Bouncy Ball!!! The "profits over people" imposition,...

,...by greedy corporacrats must end.

It's about time that LIFE takes priority over greed.

:yourock:

[sui generis]

7. and the cnn.com poll about paying emergency medical

for illegal immigrants is quite telling at 78% of respondents saying "NO!"

There are two outcomes:

1. Somebody goes to the hospital with a life threatening emergency and gets turned away. I saw this happen in Karachi, Pakistan - emergency room staff would literally let someone die on the sidewalk if they couldn't pay. A lot.

2. The hospital does treat them. The doctors and nurses and other staff don't get paid, or the hospital doesn't get paid. Doctors and nurses and staff go where they do get paid, leaving emergency rooms understaffed or staffed by overwhelmed inexperienced exhausted younger staff.

You're right, this is not the land of the free nor the home of the brave I learned about when I was growing up as a military brat in Germany. Americans may be sentimental about things but crocodile tears have nothing to do with generosity of spirit.

I don't hate America - I hate the selfish angry petulant child it is becoming and the kind of people that are trying even harder to make it that way every day.

[Bouncy Ball]

9. Wow, sui.

You said a mouthful.

I LOVE this: "crocodile tears have nothing to do with generosity of spirit"

Can I use that/steal it? That is SO damn true.

Soon enough we will be (or already are in some ways) like those hospitals in Pakistan. :-(

[sui generis]

12. of course sista

there are many good people who really do have broken hearts when they see tidal waves in Sumatra and AIDS in Africa and earthquakes and floods and tornados, but somehow disconnect from the old person living down the street taking half doses of her kidney pills, or the single mom around the corner who got AIDS from a needlestick and doesn't have insurance and certainly can't afford medicine much less food for her kid.

Everyday health IS a disaster for many Americans - their lives are every bit as much at risk every day as someone drinking cholera infected water after a flood in southeast Asia.

[Bouncy Ball]

14. You ought to write speeches for a living.

I'm not kidding. You sum it all up so well. And that's so true--you know what I think it is? I think it's easy for a lot of Americans to care about people in the abstract--and people in Indonesia or Sumatra certainly ARE abstract to a lot of Americans. And all they have to do is add on $10 to their bill at the grocery store so that the Red Cross can help, and voila! Instant feel-good!

But the American down the street? Now that's befuddling to a lot of us. It's not as simple as "give $10 to the Red Cross to help!" So I think a lot of people just shrug their shoulders and do nothing.

And, like I said in the OP, there are FAR too many of us who aren't even very aware of how severe this problem is. It's not a "sexy" issue and gets next to no coverage in the media.

[Bouncy Ball]

8. Here is the (fairly short) summary of HR 676:

http://www.cnhpnow.org/hr676.html

First four paragraphs:

The United States National Health Insurance Act (HR676) establishes a new American national health insurance program by creating a single payer health care system. The bill would create a publicly financed, privately delivered health care program that uses the already existing Medicare program by expanding and improving it to all U.S. residents, and all residents living in U.S. territories. The goal of the legislation is to ensure that all Americans, guaranteed by law, will have access to the highest quality and cost effective health care services regardless of one's employment, income, or health care status.

With over 42 million uninsured Americans, and another 40 million who are under insured, the time has come to change our inefficient and costly fragmented health care system. The USNHI program would reduce overall annual health care spending by over $50 billion in the first year. In addition, because it implements effective methods of cost-control, health spending is contained over time, ensuring affordable health care to future generations.

In its first year, single-payer will save over $150 billion on paperwork and $50 billion by using rational bulk purchasing of medications. These savings are more than enough to cover all the uninsured, improve coverage for everyone else, including medication coverage and long-term care.

Employers who currently provide coverage for their employees pay an average of 8.5% of payroll towards health coverage, while many employers can't afford to provide coverage at all. Under this Act, all employers will pay a modest 3.3% payroll tax per employee, while eliminating their payments towards private health plans. The average cost to an employer for an employee earning $35,000 per year will be reduced to $1,155, less than $100 per month.


More at the link!

[Horse with no Name]

10. Nice work bouncy. Kicked and nominated. eom

[Bouncy Ball]

11. Kicking

[catmandu57]

13. You do know don't you that the haves and have mores

come first and they can't be bothered about the peasants dying off, after all people die and the sooner they do it the sooner they decrease the surplus population.
They are sowing the seeds of their own destruction, someday the coming upheaval in this country is going to make the French revolution look like a sunday school picnic.

[Bouncy Ball]

16. ...

``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population..."

[catmandu57]

18. Exactly

this is where we're headed.

[Bouncy Ball]

19. Debtor's prisons, poor houses, orphanages for children

whose parents are very much still alive, just too poor to take care of them. That was what they had.

Last night I saw a guy sitting in a compact car near a gas station with a homemade sign that read "Need gas, desprate (sic) HELP"

I didn't have a freaking dime on me or I would have given him a few bucks (I don't live to scrutinize the motives of people asking for a few bucks, Jesus didn't care to have people act that way, either).

So I pumped $15 worth of gas (I'm getting close to payday and hope that lasts me) and I watched him. While I was there, no one came over to him.

This is in a part of town where I have never seen panhandling. I suspect I'll be seeing this more and more.

[MountainLaurel]

42. Absolutely

I've read several articles about parents who have to surrender custody of their children to the state so that the kids can get the mental health or medical care they need.

Sickening.

[Zodiak]

15. 18,000 is 1/9 of the ones who die of malpractice every year.

To that I would like to add the 120,000 or so people who die in this country every year preceisely because they DID receive healthcare...from a poorly-regulated practitioner of malpractice. Like the one Bush brought in to cry "crocodile tears" about malpractice insurance in order to push through tort reform.

120,000 people who can get no more than $250,000 for their families when they die unnecessarily. In many cases, that doesn't even cover he hospital bill and is barely enough to cover expenses over a decade even if the bill was waived (not to mention lawyer fees, etc.)

So not only do we have a condition where so many do not have any access to healthcare, but the ones who do have coverage are chewed and spit out by a corporate, insurance and profit-driven medical system that seems to exist only to perpetuate itself.

[Bouncy Ball]

17. Yes, you are right.

Thank you for adding in that dimension. It's something to think about, too.

Also, health insurance you cannot afford is just as bad as no health insurance at all.

[SonofMass]

20. Smoking causes 400,000 death every year in the US.

[Bouncy Ball]

21. And?

[amazona]

22. don't think it has been richest for a long time

Even in the 70s when I was in high school, Kuwait had already passed us up in per capita income. There must be plenty of other nations that have passed us up by now. Have visited England, Paris, and Bavaria recently -- all three looked much richer to me.

P.S. Other than that, your ideas and write-up look great. Didn't mean to nit-pick. This is a great cause.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Bouncy Ball]

23. No, that's ok, I had a feeling that wasn't true anymore.

I always remember hearing it, though.

[catmandu57]

24. Right now my wife has something going on

the right side of her body is swelling and puffing, we don't have the cash to get her to a doctor. Talking to other people who have had similar conditions we think she has a blocked node that could be cleared up with antibiotics.
That brings us back to the original problem, no insurance, no money, she has had the clinic look at it, but they don't know, and without a visit to a doctor, well...
Right now we're working on getting in on a sliding scale if that doesn't work, I don't know
Fortunately, even though I'm a natural born cripple my health is good, if something were to come up I really think I'd just go ahead and check out.

[Bouncy Ball]

26. That is so sad.

And far too common of a story.

[Wheezy]

25. Do you know when this Conyers bill (HR 676)

gets presented to the House? The bill has a Feb 2003 date on it. I'm not sure how that stuff works--has the bill been sitting there for 2 years waiting to be addressed?

[Bouncy Ball]

27. I'm not sure, but that's a good question.

I'll find out.

It might have been written in Feb. 2003 but is just now seeing action, who knows?

[Wheezy]

38. Thanks Bouncy.

Conyers seems to be quite in the spotlight lately. In a good way. Thanks for checking this out...could you tell me how you find this sort of info? I'm still learning the ways of congress. :)

[Retired AF Dem]

28. Sorry

but the comedian (I know nothing funny here) side of me is coming out, I think I have read that around 90,000 people a year die by doctors mistakes. Might just be safer staying away by your stats.

[Bouncy Ball]

32. A couple of other people have pointed that out, too.

But overall, I'll take my chances on GOING to a doctor (I'm lucky enough to have health insurance) rather than taking a chance on dying or having a low quality of life from something that could be easily treated.

This whole "well, people die of malpractice who DO go to doctors" is sounding like an excuse for not getting people health insurance. I'm not saying that's YOUR motivation, I can just see how some twisted person would want to argue it that way.

[Gelliebeans]

29. kick for bouncy

and the important information in this post that All Americans should read and distribute.

[DoNotRefill]

30. And 100,000 Americans die each year because they RECEIVE health care...

ie misdiagnosis, improper perscriptions, malpractice, et cetera.

Doctors kill more Americans each year than guns and cars COMBINED.

And no, I'm NOT joking.

[samplegirl]

31. and Bush still cutting

Medicade! Thats why I have my mother living with me.

[Bouncy Ball]

33. So your solution is?

Don't give health insurance to the 44-45 million because we are doing them a FAVOR by keeping them away from doctors????

[DoNotRefill]

36. Nope....

start reforming the system from the ground up. The problem isn't just that some people don't have insurance, the problem is that the entire healthcare system is fucked. Putting more people into an already fucked system isn't going to make it better, so rather than treating the symptom, go to the underlying root cause. That way, the symptom will go away on it's own, because the root problem that caused it will no longer exist.

[Bouncy Ball]

37. Well now that I agree with.

[DoNotRefill]

40. Damn, don't you hate it....

when I say something you agree with???


Muahahaaaaa!!!!

:evilgrin:

[Bouncy Ball]

41. No, why should I?

Because.....

nevermind.

[jbnow]

34. I don't believe that number

I'd bet it is higher, much higher. How many uninsured are apt to get screening tests, not just for breast cancer, but colon or cervical ?

How many are apt to ignore vague symptoms for as long as possible so whatever disease/disorder has done a great deal of damage that leads to earlier death?

How many depressed or bipolar uninsured are likelier to go without medication or other treatment, increasing the chance of suicide or high risk behavior?

How many can't get diagnostic tests because they can't afford it? Even lab tests! Once a lab accidentally billed me for a set of pretty routine blood tests. It was over $800. They corrected their error and billed insurance, and their FULL payment was less then $200. That is the difference between what insurance can negotiate and the uninsured, who can least afford it, gave to pay. Nice we put the highest burden on them.

Many of the deaths related to no insurance might not be counted as that. If people die of heart disease that routine tests could have caught early and treatment help, or diabetics who let complications go untreated too long...so many things that lead to a quicker death...are they counted?

I know of three uninsured people who had symptoms that took them to doctors who wanted brain MRIs. Calling many places the charge would be about the same, near $2,000. (I am sure insurance pays much less) They couldn't raise the money. Of course they didn't qualify for Medicare or medicaid...adults need to get through red tape and have documentation that their disability will last for at least a year or end in death. They couldn't even get a diagnosis without the test and the government denies people initially 80% of time once a doctor supports it...and even getting it on appeal there is a 2 year wait for Medicare for the disabled.
Anyway, two are dead. One was "lucky" enough to have MS and not a tumor causing the symptoms.

But wait...that is not just a problem of insurance. On another forum I was complaining about how MRIs are so much better at diagnosing breast cancer very early but it was far too costly . I mentioned reading that in Norway it was $200. A friend from Norway corrected me. He had just gotten a full spine MRI for $20!

Now who determines the cost of an MRI? They are expensive machines but they are plentiful here and many run day and night. They charge that because of our inflated symptom. There is nothing that makes it worth 2,000, except insurance accepts that as a base rate (that they negotiate down from)

End of this rant...for now. Well almost. I can't believe the widespread indifference to this issue. So many people think of the uninsured as...what, bums, addicts, lazy people. Most are working poor or middle class or those who lost their job and are unemployed or underemployed get it now too.
And it's growing! Employers can't afford the crazy costs either. I have friends and family who have been in the movie or theater field all their working life and were covered by their unions...and now many of them aren't with the changes of how many weeks per year you have to work to be covered...aif they do still get theirs the cost for their family being covered has quadrupled and they can't afford it. Most have "crap" jobs on the side that let them off when they get a movie or play, no insurance.

I think it has been higher then 18,000 dying due to it for some time and it is going to grow.

[Bouncy Ball]

35. I agree, the actual number is probably much higher.

My husband HAS insurance, but can't get relief for a nerve damage problem he has. The last three fingers of his right hand are numb and he wears a wrist brace. The doctor wanted him to have an MRI, but it's not covered by his insurance and the price tag was sky high, so he just said no. He takes Alleve. Until his insurance covers MRIs, we won't ever find out what can be done, besides popping Alleve, to fix it.

And this is a guy who HAS HEALTH INSURANCE!

Isn't that crazy?

[cosmicdot]

39. about 108 million Americans lack dental insurance

c. 2000

Only 60 percent of baby boomers receive dental insurance through their employers, and most older workers lose their dental insurance at retirement.


RE the first-ever Surgeon General's report on oral health which identifies a "silent epidemic" of dental and oral diseases that burdens some population groups and calls for a national effort to improve oral health among all Americans. The report, commissioned by Health and Human Services Secretary Donna E. Shalala (the Clinton Administration)

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/news/pressreleases/pr_oral_52000.htm

according to an AARP article, "most Americans lose their dental insurance benefits when they retire, the majority of people over 65 pay out of pocket every time they visit a dentist. Medicare doesn't cover routine dental care (nor does Medicaid, in most states), and more than 80 percent of older Americans have no private dental insurance, according to a recent report by nonprofit advocacy group Oral Health America."

http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/yourhealth/Articles/a2004-03-02-help_dentally.html


“...there are profound and consequential disparities in the oral health of our citizens. Indeed, what amounts to a "silent epidemic" of dental and oral diseases is affecting some population groups...” - Dr. David Satcher, Former Surgeon General, Oral Health in America:
A Report of the Surgeon General, May 2000


http://www.oralhealthamerica.org/



just some tidbits to :kick: the thread


Link to "March for American Lives - thread two"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3623828

[MountainLaurel]

43. Another relevant thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1462347

About a corporation that is forcing hourly workers to provide the company with medical records if they call out sick. I don't know about you, but every time I have needed medical records, I've been charged for copies.