Women in Combat: What's YOUR position?

[Modem Butterfly]

My partner served in the Army during the last Gulf War. We used to argue about whether or not women should be in combat positions. My take was that any woman who could meet the same not-too-stringent physical requirements as men should be allowed into combat. My partner said that was a bad idea, since the men would naturally be distracted by the urge to protect their female teammates and any sexual rivalry could hurt unit cohesion. Besides, the American public would never stand to see young women coming home from the battle field missing limbs or being scarred or disfigured from combat or coming home in a box. I agreed with him on this point.

Since the start of this Gulf War, we have discussed the topic to death. It seems that, in a war without a front, everyone is in combat, even a file clerk like Jessica Lynch or a supply officer like Lori Piestawa. We have had female soldiers come home as amputees and/or with other disfiguring wounds, or worse, being killed. Not a peep has been heard. It seems that the arguments against women in combat have been rendered largely moot by this war. So why not allow women to serve in direct combat positions?

I say, as a woman, we should be subject to the Selective Service, to the draft (if it comes to that) and combat. What do you think?

[demnan]

1. As I said in another post

I really think the first people we should be sending off to war are old Congressmen and Senators. That being said, we women want and should have equality, whether it be pleasant or not.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Deep13]

3. Bad enough men have to fight.

Adding women will simply mean that many more possible draftees. Our aggression is limited by the potential size of the army. A smaller draft pool means less aggression.

[bushisanidiot]

4. Any willing american over 18 who has passed the required

physical and written tests of combat training, should be allowed to serve. It is pure discrimination to keep willing female warriors from the battlefield.

It is also WRONG to assume all men are natural fighters and combat worthy/ready.

I am undecided on the draft issue.

Currently, we have an out of control administration leading us into war. Re-instating the draft now would put a well need "check & balance" on the presiden'ts free-wheeling us into any 'ol fight he wants to pick.. Iraq is payback for what Saddam said to Poppy Bush, and an oil grab. :P Americans of the required age should be drafted in this situation, but they would have to pass rigorous tests to make sure they can hold their own on the battlefield. Many women and men won't be able to cut it and they should not have to fight.

However, under a more presidential leader.. a "thinker" who would only lead us to war when necessary, then there's no way we'd need a draft because americans would be willing (and PROUD) to serve under a president who uses the military as it was intended to be used.

[SouthernDem2004]

11. but Women have different physical requirements...

When the requirements are equal then I will agree.

[bushisanidiot]

13. Absolutely. You can't gender specify any requirements. It makes no sense.

:P

[Zynx]

27. Agree. They want to be equal, they pass equal physical requirements

That includes hand-to-hand combat and weight-carrying requirements. I take the same attitude towards police and fire.

[Bok_Tukalo]

5. Much like you alluded to in your post, the question is almost pointless

It seems in the new world of asymetrical warfare, all units are combat units. I guess you could ask if they should be allowed to train as 11 Bang Bang or in MOS's that are used offensively, but if they are in the theater, they are in combat.

[LynnTheDem]

6. What diff??? Women in the US military are being killed in Iraq.

So are mechanics. Cooks. Computer-geeks.

Male...female...no difference when there's no front lines.

[DemBones DemBones]

7. As a woman, if I had to be in combat, my position would be

BEHIND something.

:evilgrin:

[tinanator]

9. pretty much my reaction as a guy

but I see there isnt even a missionary listed in the poll...

[ET Awful]

8. Let me preface my statement by saying that NOBODY should be in combat

if it's at all avoidable.

That said, women have been demanding equality for over 100 years, and equality means exactly that. If things are going to be equal, the must be universally equal. The same applies for people of the appropriate age, be they male, female, gay or straight, etc.

For "equality" to be equal, it must be equal in all ways, not just those that feel nice, warm and fuzzy.

[LynneSin]

10. How about Other: No One should be in combat

:D

[Lerkfish]

12. exactly... and a scary caution...

that was going to be MY response. I don't think ANYONE should be in combat, gender irrelevant.

However, here's my scary caution....IMHO the whole issue is setting us up for a draft. The repugs are going to make it SOUND like they won't put women in combat, THEREFORE they think they can evaporate the ONLY objection to a draft from right wing religious wingnuts.

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. Gets my vote too

[Wizard777]

30. For some reason good things never last.

I agree whole heartedly with your sentiment.

[meatloaf]

15. I'm a huge proponent of equality, but I think it's a bad idea

to water down the requirements for any position to "accomodate" women. Some jobs simply need big burly people. If a big burly woman wants to apply for the job and can do it, then she should be considered on an equal basis whether the job be fireman/person or combat soldier.

All this being said, I believe women should be subject to all the risks and responsibilities men are, with the caveat that they can perform at the necessary physical level. Hell, a lot of men can't perform at the necessary physical level.

[Modem Butterfly]

17. I'll agree with you on the physical requirements

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

16. Don't think anyone should be subjected to the draft.

I certainly wouldn't want to see women added to the draft. If both men and women can be drafted, then there needs to be exceptions for families with children, like only one parent can be drafted. Frankly, I think drafting women would just lead to even more babies being born. I doubt the government will draft a pregnant woman (remember how precious the fetus is). Women will just get pregnant to avoid the draft. Yeah, women want to be "equal"... and they will be equally as crafty as men are(possibly more so) when it comes to dodging the draft.

[0007]

18. If it comes to that all should be ready for duty. Old folks and children!

But in reality it should never ever come to that.

[JerseygirlCT]

19. Um... Women are equal to men and should be equally allowed

opportunities (such as they are) in combat.

However, NO ONE should be subject to a draft. Ever.

[splat@14]

20. Women shouldn't be subject to combat any more than men. n/t

[onager]

21. This isn't new

During WWII, Russian women served in just about every combat job available to males. They drove tanks, flew aircraft and became some of the most feared snipers in the Red Army. Nobody worried about their physical stamina. And in those days, it took some stamina to drive a T-34 tank. It was about like driving a bulldozer.

Maybe the difference is that the Russians were in a really desperate situation.

[CTyankee]

22. This issue was on GMA today

And I was taken back to the early 80s when the ERA was being debated. Women in combat was the big emotional issue that is credited for defeating the ERA. In those days women in the military were far fewer than now; women in the service academies were considered oddities which they are not now; the last war in our history was Vietnam not the Gulf War or Iraq so we had a different take on war.

It was then, and is now, an issue of equality. The military is a career option. Being kept out of key positions is a hindrance to that career. As long as women are somewhat second class citizens in the military, this will be a hindrance.

[Withywindle]

23. Other...

Women should be able to serve in any position they want to and can qualify for. But I can't bring myself to say they "should" be drafted equally, because I'm absolutely opposed to that horrific form of coersion/trafficking/slavery for anyone.

[Finder]

24. Women should be allowed...

but not drafted. I believe males and females are equal as far as citizens, opportunities, rights etc, but I don't think we are equal physically and mentally. Not weaker necessarily, but different. Those who are should be allowed to though.

Women are also not the same as men as far as following orders and group dynamics. A study was done years ago where male soldiers were told to put a banana on their head by the CO--they all complied. A mess hall with woman was ordered to do the same and most did not comply without hesitation.

That is not to say that women do not follow orders,(just look at Condi) but they do tend to question orders and are least affected by the brainwashing. No, I am not saying women are necessarily smarter or more free thinking, but I do believe the lack of testosterone has something to do with it. A different approach would be required which only leads to arguments involving equal treatment.

[Cleita]

25. I thought a lot about who should actually be in combat.

It really boiled down to those who don't have children and those who want to be in combat. I am really against mothers and fathers being thrown into combat if they have children under 18 to raise. This takes a big chunk of the population out of combat I know, but it seems fair.

If women get the right training and get the equipment they need, there is no reason they can't be an effective member of a fighting unit in combat.

[readmoreoften]

26. I know a lot of dykes who could beat the crap out of most guys I know

I think the draft should be used almost never, though.

[LdyGuique]

28. Since the only war that I'd likely support wholeheartedly would

be one on American soil -- and women would automatically take up arms alongside of their men, I'm voting for women serving in combat positions. It is a ridiculous argument that we'll accept death and dismemberment for men more than women -- it means that something is disastrously wrong in the first place. I don't support death and dismemberment for anyone -- whether it's American troops or so-called enemies, in particular "collateral damage."

Sometimes, wars on foreign soil is a necessity; however, I've not seen one since WWII and our involvement in the U.N. action in Korea, and NATO in Bosnia.

[KittyWampus]

29. I Don't Know. Undecided.

[Book Lover]

31. For those of us who can carry weight and fire guns as well as males

no barrier should be in our way.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Women shouldn't be in combat. Neither should men.

And, they wouldn't be if we had diplomats and ethical politicians running the country.

[antigone382]

33. All this quaint practice does is keep women from getting combat pay.

In modern war, or at least the type of war we are fighting, there are no "front lines"; the combat zone is everywhere. Denying women who are willing and able an opportunity out of some misguided desire to protect them is completely asinine. Men in the middle of a firefight must show a willingness to sacrifice the lives of women and children who get in the way, for the sake of self-preservation; while the morality of that is debatable, the point is that it shows that men would not necessarily go out of their way to protect the women in their unit in a combat situation, putting themselves at unnecessary risk.

Women should be subject to the same risk of being drafted that men are; though I think that risk should be miniscule for everyone. There are times when the draft is needed, like during the Civil War and World War II; and times when it is not, like Viet Nam, and (some would argue) World War I. But even if a draft IS implemented for an unjust war, why should men have to suffer under that injustice more than women?

However, if women are going to be drafted, there are some very serious issues concerning rape and harrassment in the military that need to be dealt with effectively. Also, though I DO believe in equal rights and equal responsibilities, I DON'T think we've acheived equal rights in any sense but the most superficial (hell, we don't even have equal representation yet).