I wondered if there was really a sense of joy when Bill Clinton was in

[Valerie5555]

charge, as opposed to a sense of dourness under *.

[ObaMania]

1. Hmmm.. peace, prosperity, over-employment, robust economy..

.. nope, no joy!

[Valerie5555]

3. And a sense that "Average Americans" didn't have to worry their "Average

American" little heads about the bigger political picture since the US at least was in fairly good hands.

[carpetbagger]

12. I think you hit it on the nail. Not joy, but it was satisfactory.

The joy for me left when health care reform crashed. But even after the GOP takeover, there was the sense that the future would be characterized by moves towards peace with occasional limited war, and a type of prosperity based on a "rising tide", if not one that the government was particularly willing to take an active role in ensuring.

When the budgets got balanced, I actually thought for a time that I'd get some social security when I got old. I thought as well that there would be good jobs for my children when they grew up, so long as they had a college education with some technical training.

[Valerie5555]

15. And that your kids also WOULDN'T face the THREAT of the DRAFT,

By the way, maybe someone ought to start OPERATION DRAFT THE CHICKENCRAP CHICKENHAWKS (OR THEIR MILITARY AGE FAMILY MEMBERS) FIRST.

[chlamor]

2. During Clinton's Last Two Years

in office in NY State the Food Pantry's needs increased by 37%. Let's not glorify, not that your post is doing that, William J. it is just that the current admin is so appalling IMO.

Clinton was involved in much nastiness.

[Valerie5555]

4. And you would have to wonder if everyone was really doing better under him

or Clinton.

[democracyindanger]

5. I was so bummed out

Best paying job I ever had, enabling me to contribute liberally to both political and charitable efforts, North Korea didn't have a nuclear bomb and a missile that could hit the West Coast, thousands of acres of pristine forest protected...what a bummer.

[Valerie5555]

7. And an ACTUAL war on Iraq and now an IMPENDING and POSSIBLE war on

Iran didn't hang over our heads like the sword of Damocles.

[Unforgiven]

6. Yes

We just never appreciated it!

[Valerie5555]

14. And there was not as many damn needless wars too

eom.

[RoyGBiv]

8. By comparison, yes ...

I was pretty torqued about some things that went on during the Clinton years. I went on a long tirade in a political forum I was frequenting at the time about NAFTA, and I didn't like the way he handled a lot of things. Some of it wasn't *him* specifically, of course, but some of it was.

Bill Moyers wrote a great piece recently that focused on a real comparison between the Reagan/Clinton/Shrub years. (He sorta put Bush I as an extension of Reagan.) It was a very interesting article about real people and the downward slide into helplessness they've experienced regardless of who has been in the White House. His conclusion was that, at most, that slide didn't speed up too dramatically during Clinton's terms, but it didn't measurably improve either. Again, it's a problem with the dominant power structure, not just a single individual.

But, again, by comparison, there was a lot of joy, at least in my life. I didn't wake up in the mornings wondering what fool shit was coming down the pike today from Fearless Leader, and even though I was quite poor, I had a sense of hope. Now, I have a decent job with a decent wage, insurance, benefits (I don't consider insurance a "benefit," rather a necessity to call the job truly decent), but I live in a constant state of concern that it'll all come crashing down tomorrow.

[Valerie5555]

10. And there was that bit about him jumping in defence of that American kid

in Singapore who was caned for vandalizing cars and was said to have some sort of learning / behavioral issue when all heck was breaking loose in Rwanda.


I wonder how everyone did under Jimmy Carter by the way, despite all the hostage and economic difficulties on his watch.

[expatriate]

9. I think it's far too simplistic to say that any particular era

was a time of "joy" for everyone in a nation. People's situations vary widely. I know many people, including myself, who had a hard time during the Clinton administration - not necessarily because of Clinton's policies and actions, but due to some societal and economic changes that took place during that era. So I certainly don't look upon that time, or any other time as being particularly golden. Things were good for some folks, bad for some folks.

During the time that the Social Security offices were basically shut down by President Clinton, my first husband had been unemployed, and had also been robbed - so he needed a new Social Security card, as he had a good chance for a new job. Went off to the Social Security office - the staff were there, but would/could do no work. Couldn't get a new card, no matter what. They didn't care that his possibility for employment hung in the balance - just told us to "talk to the President" about it. He didn't get the job because he couldn't provide the Social Security documentation, and his unemployment had run out. Our child had just been diagnosed with insulin-dependent diabetes that week, and we had no health insurance - and we couldn't qualify for Medicaid because we weren't living at the percentage of the poverty level to qualify. I didn't feel any particular joy on that day, as a taxpayer who had been paying taxes since I was three years old (child performer). There were people suffering unemployment during those years, just as there are all the time, and some of Clinton's policies made it more difficult to get help through social programs than it had been in the past, though Reagan had done a lot to gut those programs too.

I will say that the overall atmosphere was better in America during the Clinton years than it seems to be now. But realistically, no time in history was golden - unless you happened to be the person on the top of the heap.

Things are much worse now, of course, but everyone wasn't doing the happy dance during the Clinton years either.

[Valerie5555]

13. And I am sure a woman with a kid who'd been parentally kidnapped to some

place like Saudi Arabia wasn't doing too good as far as her hopes in getting the kid back was concerned for the American government may have even been too busy kissing Saudi butt even when Clinton was president.

[Zorra]

11. I'd give up everything I have to go back to those years right now.

Heck, things were so prosperous under Clinton, I'd make it all back and more in a couple months anyway.:)

[funflower]

16. Those were the days, my friend.

We thought they'd never end.

:bounce:

[Valerie5555]

17. The days of wine and roses

eom :D

[funflower]

18. You named that tune in 12 notes!

[Valerie5555]

20. That summed up the Clinton years which no doubt sent "heady upbeat"

shivers deep within all of us when he was first inaugurated.

[funflower]

27. The good thing about republicans ruling the world is...

it feels so good when it stops!

That's how I felt the day Clinton was inaugurated. Maybe we'll have that again in Jan. 2009 (or in 2006 if we can get a solid grip on just one house....).

[Valerie5555]

30. And when Carter was Inaugurated I bet you found that to be a breath of

fresh air after Richard "I am not a crook" Nixon. I wonder if it was too bad there was just no way those Tehran hostages could have told him "DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE RESCUE MISSION, MR PRESIDENT, WE ESCAPED."

[funflower]

33. I was a little too young to fully appreciate the Carter administration!

[Valerie5555]

37. Me to for I was only in something like kindergarten or grade 1 to grade 4.

eom

[Valerie5555]

19. And you wouldn't have to spend precious time railing about how * IS AN

ASSHOLE.

[bluestateguy]

21. I was proud to be an American back then

and when foreign students that I knew tried to tear down this country has was happy to stand up for it, but now, sadly, I realize that many of their critiques were correct.

[Valerie5555]

24. Especially in relation to places like IRAQ

eom.

[flordehinojos]

22. i think when bill clinton was in people weren't afraid that their social

security (a/k/a social retirement insurance) was going to be taken away from them...

under bill clinton public education tried to do its best to give a good education to america's children, and secondary education (by that i mean, universities and colleges were basically affordable, and they taught arts/humanities areas that usually improve man's view of man and of the world).

there was a certain air of hopefulness that sort of just floated around.

Under Bill Clinton HMOs and INSURANCES did not and could not get away with the highway robbery they are getting away with today. (some x-ray imaging outfit contracted by a local hospital to read their x-rays sent their bill for reading my x-rays to the HMO i had two years ago...even when they had the correct information on the current HMO which insures us...and then after the HMO which no longer insures me denied the claim, they (the x-ray reading outfit) billed me for the amount saying the insurance had denied the claim. Then when I mentioned to them that I had personally given them the correct information, they said they had ammended the billing and sent it to the proper HMO. When I pointed out to them that what they were doing was, in my view, an effort to see if they could confuse any already confused senior citizen who might go ahead and pay them their claim on the basis of their assertion that the claim had been denied, even when the appropriate HMO would pay the bill (since they had billed an inactive HMO, the currently active HMO, and the client) they said that that is the way their system was set up... CAN YOU IMAGINE THE CHUTZPAH?

Under Bill Clinton Senior Citizens had lunch programs at the senior centers for senior citizens who depended on these meals to keep them healthy ... gasoline was affordable and volunteers for the meals on wheels programs (usually themselves senior citizens) could afford to pay for the gas to deliver the meals out of their own pockets to those who were shut in and could not afford to go to the senior centers for their meals....these days meals on wheels programs are losing volunteers who can't afford to pay for the gas to deliver meals out of their own pockets and, the meals on wheels programs can't afford to pay their gas either.

Under Bill Clinton PEOPLE HAD THE RIGHT AND DID EXERCISE THEIR RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH without fear of being arrested, put in a pen miles away from the Clintons and there was no attempt at doing away with DEMOCRACY.

Under Bill Clinton people were usually not afraid of each other. People were more often than not, supportive of each other. Because there was a real sense of wellness, people felt freer to live and experience a sense of community, except for those, like so many talking heads, who made it such an issue re: bill's sexual escapade with monica lewinsky. YET, WHERE IS THE MORAL OUTRAGE TODAY about an invasion and occupation launched against another country only because the man launching it and those around him wanted war, oil, and power and control? WHERE IS THE MORAL OUTRAGE when every day we read in the meanstream media news about dozens of dead people that we have managed to kill. WHERE IS THE MORAL OUTRAGE about programs for the poor and infirmed being cut; social security funds about to be looted by a man who cares not one iota about the citizens of this country, yet wraps himself in the american flag and calls himself the greatest and truest patriot that america ever had. WHERE IS THE MORAL OUTRAGE, about ...so many things that this bush man is intent on destroying or has already destroyed?

I don't know if this classifies as "a sense of joy under Bill Clinton" but it certainly classifies as "a sense of wellness under Bill Clinton" and in my book, a sense of wellness and a sense of joy sort of go together.

[Valerie5555]

23. or a sense of well being and of being in fairly good hands

eom

[Zensea]

25. I almost starved to death and almost became homeless

during the Clinton administration.
& this with a master's degree.
I'm making more money now than I've ever made in my life but I still did not vote for George Bush either time.

These problems with an underclass in our society did not begin with George Bush. He's made them a lot worse, that's for sure but they didn't start with him.

[Valerie5555]

26. Am sure that even with Clinton in office many a person still literally

COUDLN'T AFFORD to BE SICK or HAVE AN ACCIDENT.

[funflower]

28. Gee. Don't starve, Zensea.

You are always welcome to come over to our place for a sandwich!

[Zensea]

40. grin..... well I'm doing fine these days but thanks

I was just trying to make two points.
One, for a lot of people things weren't so rosy during the Clinton years.
Two, if I voted according to how well I'm surviving and if I'm better off than before, then I'd have to vote for Bush, but there's such a thing as principles independent of my economic situation.

[Valerie5555]

42. In that Bush is a big jerk

eom.

[Valerie5555]

41. If he were a student during the Clinton years, he could have survived on

Hot Stuff pizzas. :D

[Fountain79]

29. Question...

When are we as Democrats going to stop granting Sainthood to this man? At what point are we actually going to look critically at his administration and stop looking back with rosy colored glasses?

[Valerie5555]

31. I myself was disillusioned with things like the nonintervention in Rwanda,

the "ooh la la" stuff and how in the end, he also palmed off Socks to his assistant.

[Fountain79]

32. How good was it?

[Valerie5555]

35. So they are still throwing eggs at him in a way even now.

eom

[Fountain79]

43. ???

Did you read the part that said: "What came first the eggs or the chicken?"

[Greybnk48]

34. Intelligent, articulate, hardworking, 'sigh'

For eight years I felt we had a future to look forward to. Now...?

[Valerie5555]

36. And that everything was in reasonably competent hands

eom.

[agincourt]

38. I didn't like him when he was in office,

now he looks like Thomas Jefferson compared to the televangelist jackal we have now. No, no joy, but less fear and loathing.

[Valerie5555]

39. Not to mention the current "A**hole In Chief" meaning * of course.

eom.

[earth mom]

44. The Clinton years weren't good for my family at all...

I don't miss Clinton one iota. And these days he and Hillary are most assuredly members of *s rethug dark side which is the biggest insult of all to democrats. I don't get how anyone can see anything good about the man these days. :shrug:

[Valerie5555]

45. So I take it you were one of those people who ought to make people wonder

if EVERYONE and not JUST A FEW ended up DOING ALL THAT WELL UNDER CLINTON.

[earth mom]

47. I really don't understand your comment...

But frankly, doing well or not is the least of my issues with the Bill Clinton. Oddly enough my family is doing better under * which is nothing more than pure luck...since gawd knows I can't stand * and would never give him credit for anything.

What bugs me is that Bill and Hillary have proven that they are more rethuglican than democrat yet they pass themselves off to democrats as democrats which is a TOTAL LIE. That's the issue that dems need to look long and hard at. Do we really need more LIARS in the White House by voting Hillary in office in 2008?! I think not.

[deadparrot]

46. I'm no big Clinton fan,

but I would give just about anything to go back to those years when the worst thing that happened in the White House is that Clinton was getting a blow job, and he let people sleep in the Lincoln bedroom for campaign contributions.

Now thousands of our troops are dead, not to mention massive numbers of innocents.

Ugh.

[Johonny]

48. The stock market would seem to show

a yes to that. Certainly people were much more economically optimistic under Clinton (even if they were paying slightly higher taxes).