John 3:16 on a shopping bag

[movie_girl99]

my daughter and i were shopping on Saturday for clothes for her at a shop called Forever 21. She has shopped there many times before and we never noticed the bags. This last time when the clerk laid the bag on the counter, we both saw the words "John 3:16" on the bottom of the bag. My very outspoken daughter said "what the fuck is that"? The clerk looked at us both with a puzzled look as if she had no idea what my daughter was talking about. My daughter proceeded to take the items out of the bag and gave it back to the clerk telling her that she wouldn't carry and advertisement for their beliefs. She also told her that she would never shop there again.
She was fed up after going to her senior picnic on Friday only to have to sit through "prayer time". Her best friend is from Pakistan and is Muslim and another is Vietnamese and is a Buddhist. There were about 6 kids at the table who all were in total disbelief at what was going on. One of the teachers walked by and told them to be quiet and one of the students replied" isn't this illegal" he was quickly shushed by the teacher and told to be quiet. This teacher just so happens to be the local Young Life representative as well.

The group ended up leaving about a 1/2 later and came to my house and ranted on for about an hour. We live in a suburb of Dallas with a church on EVERY corner.

[MADem]

1. And God so loved the World

...that he declared a FABULOUS SALE, SALE, SALE at Forever 21!

Jesus H. Christ, the world has indeed gone mad!

[JHB]

13. WCWJS

What crap would Jesus sell?

[MADem]

24. WWJS? Where would JEEESUS shop?

Why, that shitty store, of COURSE!

But that's only when he isn't shopping at the CHRIST CENTERED MALL!!!!
http://www.christcenteredmall.com/index.htm

[The Icon Painter]

28. X Centered Mall

I looked at that site and it is incredible! I cannot think when I have seen a whiter sepulcher. It is so thoroughly disgusting I feel the need to cover my entire body (eyes included) with that alcohol based hand sterilizer gel.

Are these people totally insane? I have been screaming about the dangers of a theocracy since the Reagan years and am horrified to see my worst predictions coming true faster than even I believed possible.

[MADem]

34. Yes, they ARE insane, and you are right to be horrified! n/t

[knitter4democracy]

127. It's more of the commercialization of the faith.

I'll never forget when I was in Russia on the Coalition of Christian Colleges and Universities Russian Studies Program and when we read a description of how some Russians felt about a huge evangelical service held in a stadium: "It's like they're selling God." That quote's stayed with me ever since.

Isn't that what made Jesus really mad, mad enough to use violence? The commercialization of the faith and profiteering off of believers?

[FreedomAngel82]

60. Really

Right now it's all about marketing. So many people claim themselves as Christians whether they really follow him or not. It's the thing now. Sadly it's getting to the point of being annoying. I'm Christian and find it annoying myself. Didn't Jesus tell people to be humble? Hmm, I guess this is a new form of humbleness.

[Last Lemming]

2. a church on every corner

and a daughter with her head on her shoulders

[madrchsod]

3. "tip of the hat"

to your daughter...got to be a hell of a girl and a true friend to her buddies..thumbs up to you for raising a child with principals...

[Grooner Five]

4. If I ever said...

"what the fuck is that" in front of my mom, she'd have boxed my ears until they bled.

[movie_girl99]

7. my daughter is 18 and she is very respectful

she would never say anything like that in front of her grandparents or anyone that she knew would find it offensive. it doesn't bother me because i tend to drop the "F" bomb quite often, especially when driving.

[Grooner Five]

14. I'm sure she is very respectful

Still, I'd have suffered the wrath of mom, who wasn't prone to using the F word herself. She despised profanity, and came down hard on offenses. All these years later, I'm glad she did.

Anyway, that's just the first thing I thought of when reading your post. IMO, it stands as an example of how profanity can detract from a message, because it sucks up all of the attention for itself.

[thinkingwoman]

40. Oh for crying out loud

People give too much power to words. Profanity has no power on its own.


P.S. Sometimes profanity adds to the message, rather than detracting from it. When confronted with theocracy, it's more than warranted.

[Grooner Five]

44. I disagree

Profanity is seldom warranted. It only gives people an easy reason to dismiss a message by rightly or wrongly judging the presenter as having no class. People will tend to hear the profanity more than they will the message at hand.

I don't believe that is arguable, but feel free to have at it.

[thinkingwoman]

51. I'm sure you do

And this sentence:

"I don't believe that is arguable, but feel free to have at it." shows your opinion comes from a narrowminded place.

Feel free to stay there while the rest of us enjoy our liberty.

By the way...my religion doesn't recognize, let alone prohibit profanity, so I'll exercise my 1st amendment rights twice whenever I choose to use such language.

[Grooner Five]

53. Fair enough

..and people will continue to judge both you and the validity of your message by the parlance you choose. Swear in a job interview, and see how far it gets you.

[thinkingwoman]

55. baseless judgements

There is nothing in my posts which indicates a lack of knowledge of appropriate and inappropriate times and situations where such language can be used without consequences.

Your responses indicate a jump to conclusions and fast judgements about people who use such language.

Although I do not attach the same judgements to such language as you apparently do, I do know how to conduct myself in public and in business. I have been quite successful so far in my career (I'm only 39 so I still have a ways to go to reach my goals), having met several governors and senators in my line of work. I am currently on a first name basis with a lt. governor, governor, and several representatives. Some of them use "colorful" language. Some do not.

Never saw fit to swear in a job interview, but, then again, I've been the one conducting them rather than attending them for many many years now.

By the way, it may surprise you to learn that I judge people more by the way they judge others than what language they use. As such, you probably wouldn't get very far in an interview with me.

[Grooner Five]

65. I don't believe such language is ever appropriate...

...in a public setting with those who would be considered strangers.

Your irrelevant example of a Senator swearing among compatriots is far removed from the use of profanity described by the OP, who spoke of a case where it was being used aggressively - and toward who? The clerk? Did this clerk put the offensive message on the bag?

My judgments are no more "baseless" than your examples are relevant to the conditions described by the OP.

[thinkingwoman]

73. now this is just getting silly

nice threadjacking but your argument has devolved to abject silliness.

Have a nice day.

[Grooner Five]

78. You tried to excuse inexcusable behaviour.

And as such, have reached a dead end. Fair enough.

The problem for you is that one offensive message can not be properly countered with a different offensive message - and certainly not aimed at an innocent bystander, as is what happened in this case.

The clerk did not deserve a treatment of profanity. Perhaps it would have been better expressed toward the company management that saw fit to include an offensive religious message on their shopping bag.

I have no time for people trying to force their religions or ideology on me. But I also have no time for those who demean this inclusive stance with classless behaviour. It makes everyone look bad.

[movie_girl99]

83. oh you'll love this

i just spoke to my daughter about this thread and she told me that the girl behind the counter that day is 17 and just had a baby out of wedlock. I doubt that the "f" word offended her much.

[tx_dem41]

88. I'm sure it was her use of the "f" word....

that led her down the path to teen pregnancy. :sarcasm:

[movie_girl99]

91. i didn't mean that

i meant how ironic is it that a Christian company has a teen aged girl who had a baby out of wedlock.

[tx_dem41]

92. My sarcasm wasn't directed at you, movie_girl....

it was directed up the subthread a post or two. I knew what you meant.

[movie_girl99]

93. oh okay...

I'm getting a bit paranoid as of late.

[Warren DeMontague]

120. Really? Someone tried to excuse putting fucking religious propaganda on a

shopping bag?

Because that's the only "inexcusable behavior" I see here.

As far as an 18 year old saying "fuck", excuse me if I don't get my crinoline doilies in a wad over such things.

[Swamp Rat]

163. What hypocrisy!

"I have no time for people trying to force their religions or ideology on me." - Yet you are pushing your language agenda here. Btw, hypocrisy is inexcusable behavior at DU, not saying the word "fuck."

[Warren DeMontague]

119. If I had seen the bag

my reaction probably would have been "What the Fuck is that?", too.

And yes, out LOUD.

[annarbor]

122. Oh come on....

There's a time and a place to use profanity and obviously a job interview is not one of those times....
Can it be that you have a hang-up about profanity because your mom taught you that it was inapropriate in ALL circumstances?

If she allows her daughter to swear in front of her than so be it....

Ann Arbor

[TheWatcher]

144. And we will continue to ignore your judgement and your opinions

Feel free to revel in your irrelevance.

It amazes me that while the very fabric of our Liberty dissappears before our eyes, all people like you can worry about is if we used any foul language while it was being done.

If you can't handle it, go watch the Disney Channel.

[Terran]

96. Well, what's worse?

Saying "fuck", or cheapening the memory of Jesus on a fucking shopping bag?

Oh, please excuse my profanity, btw.

[Grooner Five]

99. I'm not trying to rate one against the other.

That one is inappropriate doesn't mean that the other is fine, or vice-versa. It is possible that both the message on the bag and the use of profanity toward the clerk are offensive. Isn't it?

[Terran]

107. Yes, it's possible.

It's just that you seem a lot more concerned about the profanity than what prompted it. I mean, where does the deeper, more significant problem lie?

[Grooner Five]

108. In terms of the bag, I'd say neither are very important.

The company has to live with their own decisions, and they are free to promote bible verses if that's what they want, just as customers are free to take their business elsewhere. The profanity is just a pet peeve of mine, and it struck a nerve when I read of a parent being permissive about it with her child. I think profanity can sully an otherwise valid message, and don't like the way it coarsens our culture. That's just my opinion, and people are more than welcome to disagree.

The school issue is another matter. That seems a violation of church/state separation, and such involuntary programs are not something that students should be subjected to. Very offensive stuff.

[renaissanceguy]

147. So then the problem

lies in the listener, not the speaker. If the listener cannot look past certain hangups, like vocabulary, then the listener is small minded. It is better to listen for CONTENT.

[BiggJawn]

43. And just what are YOU doing?

"... it stands as an example of how profanity can detract from a message, because it sucks up all of the attention for itself."

Kind of like you're doing, trying to hijack this thread?

I got the message. I got it loud and clear, "F-bomb" or not.
If you wanna be all twisted out of shape over a "Diddly-Damn Dipthong in the Greek", you should start your OWN thread.

[Grooner Five]

45. Oh, sorry.

I thought we were having a discussion here. I didn't realize my replies should be narrowly focused on whatever message you see fit to be taken from the thread, and will try to do better next time.

[BiggJawn]

56. Oh, don't pull that crap.

The "Oh Ex-CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE me for having an OPINION!" crap.

I didn't tell you to STFU, I expressed MY opinion, as did YOU.

When you engage in a side-discussion that has NOTHING to do with the OP, that's hi-jacking...Sort of like what I'm being sucked into here.
I'll say no more.

We now return this thread to the ORIGINAL topic of Religion in the Public Arena....

[Grooner Five]

67. Your opinion was that I was derailing the discussion

I disagree with that opinion, and don't subscribe to your narrow interpretation of what can constitute relevant replies to a message.

You may not have directly told me to "STFU," but that was certainly the theme of your message.

[BiggJawn]

75. Oh, the dreaded dopple-post!

It said exactly the same thing as the one below...

[BiggJawn]

76. Oooooo-Kay....

If I was the only person to think so, I might be inclined to think I'm in error pointing out what I did.
But another poster has brought up the same point, and if you look at the "tree" of responses, you'll see that your hijacking has garnered almost more traffic than the original post.

And if I had wanted to tell you to shut the fuck up, I'd had told you so. I'm not bashful.

You want to know what I REALLY think?
I think you want to derail the the discussion about whether it's appropriate or not to have religious slogans on bags, napkins, etc. out in the Commercial World, and you've been here long enough to know that it'll take more than a cry of "Christian Bash!" to do it.
That's what I think.

[Grooner Five]

80. I think mixing business and religion is silly...

...and not a smart move in terms of widening a customer base. The message on that bag does not personally offend me, but such pandering is not something I would do in my own business.

I certainly wouldn't feel any need to toss profanity at the clerk putting items in this offensive bag, and would well understand that my anger is better aimed at the company's management. Berating the clerk for the message amounts to a form of laziness, because the message isn't likely to hit home with people that can actually make a difference.

I do think the company has a right to put whatever they want on their bags, and then live or die by their choice. A choice I would make would be not to demean myself by reacting poorly to the choices of the company.

[noiretextatique]

105. ok...since no one else has said it: STFU. eom

[Grooner Five]

106. I guess that not everyone...

...is comfortable with having their opinions challenged. Some folks seem downright unable for it.

[noiretextatique]

111. you didn't challenge an opinion

you made a comment, no several, regarding YOUR OPINION of profanity. as others have mentioned, the thread WAS about a bible verse on a bag.
that's called hijacking...purposely changing the subject of a thread....so, STFU.

[Grooner Five]

112. The thread was also about the reaction...

...to the bible verse on the bag. Perhaps you missed that part.

[noiretextatique]

134. let me guess: you're really the 17yo pregnant store clerk, right?

:eyes: in that case, i can see why you are so upset.

as to the reaction to the verse, as related by the mother of the person who reacted was "what the fuck is this!"
as we all know now, you would have reacted diffently, and apparently, yu think this young woman should have as well, an opinion you have stated, ad nauseum, in this thread. somehow i don't think the poster's motivation in started this thread was to be lectured by you about the inappropriateness of her daughter's reaction, since you don't know either of them.

what i got from her post, and from her daughter's reaction was that the young woman was obviously frustrated by religiosity she had been dealing with recently, at school for example. your repeated admonishments regarding what you consider appropriate language were in fact off topic.

having dug yourself in so deep now, i can see why you persist with this school marm bit, but i am not the first person to point out to you that it is taking the focus away from the topic at hand.

as other have done, i will leave you to your outrage.

[Straight Shooter]

123. LOL! Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, noiret blue!

My eyes were beginning to bleed.

:rofl:

[noiretextatique]

132. my guess is

he doesn't like profanity :sarcasm: we got that from the first post :hi:

[Lerkfish]

59. "sucking up all the attention for itself"...hmmm

you mean like you're doing right now by missing the point entirely?

:spank:

[Grooner Five]

69. If you believe I am off topic then...

...why are you bothering to reply to my posts?

[Lerkfish]

72. no worries, that's a mistake I'll rectify right after this post.

[annarbor]

121. Cussing....

My friend, a female cop, was confronted by a guy, 6'4, with a Beretta 9mm in his lap. His buddy had just attempted to rob the local Circuit City store with a 40 cal handgun. She asked several times politely for the guy to drop the gun. He didn't drop it until she threatened to "blow his fucking head off". See, some cussing is appropriate!

Ann Arbor

[Tux]

156. Because

You hijakced a thread to bitch about some fucking swearing. So what? My grandmothers, grandfather, and other relatives TAUGHT me swearing so I can use it to emphasis a point to people who don't use big fucking words. Swear words are just words, damn it. So what if people use that shit? People do it all fucking day and it's our freedom to swear we enjoy. Just stop making a big fucking deal out some shit comment some girl shot out her mouth. It's like you're the God damned swearing police or some fucking thing.

[Bluebear]

89. The children are learning this behavior from the Vice President.

His language is NOT a good example for youth.

[noiretextatique]

104. your daughter is very respectful

i probably would have said a lot worse. thank goodness for outspoken women who use the "f" bomb :hi: and forget the freak who is trying to hijack your thread.

[Fire Walk With Me]

128. But with a church on every corner, drivers must be saintly in regard

for their fellow automobile.

Right? It follows, right? What went wrong, the churches or the people who go to them?

[Dora]

9. Isn't it nice that things change?

After a lifetime of biting her tongue, my mother feels free to curse in front of me without fear of shaming or physical abuse. It took her a few years to get the hang of it, but now at 60-something she can roll out a "WTF?" with the best of them.

[Grooner Five]

19. I'm sure I've read this wrong

But were you shaming your mom or physically abusing her for using profanity?

[Dora]

25. Oh, yes, all the time!

No, not really. I neither shame nor abuse my mother.

It was a reference to your own ear-boxing.

[Grooner Five]

47. That ear boxing really sucked

Sometimes she'd swat me with whatever kitchen impliment was in her hand if she saw that I was up to no good. She never inflicted any actual damage, but it did wound my pride, and I think it taught me to have a certain respect for both the language and myself.

I loathed her at the time for it, but am very thankful now. A good woman.

[alcibiades_mystery]

52. So your Mom disliked profanity

But would beat you til your ears bled?

She sounds like a fucking lunatic to me.

[Grooner Five]

54. No, I never actually bled

that was a linguistic tool called "overstatement." It has pitfalls similar to profanity, as evidenced by your post.

[alcibiades_mystery]

87. Thanks

I got the overstatement the first time.

Mine was overstatement too. The fact that she beat you at all while decrying profanity still makes her cuckoo for coco-puffs in my book. Now, mind you, my Dad used to get me with the belt, but he wasn't such a hypocritical ass as to then turn around and shit all over "bad language." Get the fucking priorities straight, now.

[Grooner Five]

98. Your post seems needlessly aggressive and uncouth.

I believe my priorities are fine, and see no problem with questioning the use of profanity in the situation described by the OP. Perhaps it's your own priorities that should be looked in to, if you are unable to handle a simple discussion on the appropriateness of profanity when complaining about the message on a shopping bag.

[alcibiades_mystery]

135. Must be the working class roots

Sorry to disturb your delicate sensibilities, m'lord...:eyes:

[Tux]

157. LOL

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Fuck, I was raised middle class and my family was poor as kids. They don't like swearing too much but my grandmother could make sailors shit their pants and blush at the sametime.

[atreides1]

18. If That's the Case

Then your mother would have been a child abuser, wouldn't she?

[Grooner Five]

20. Well, no, I don't think so

I'd consider her a good mother for teaching me a valuable lesson about the self-demeaning nature of profanity. The public use of it does little to encourage the attaining of good manners, a good job and community respect.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. Perhaps a well-chosen profanity helped in this situation

If the shop has an inappropriate and unwanted message it wants to get across, its customers should retaliate with another unwanted message.

[Grooner Five]

49. Like Dick Cheney did on the Senate floor?

I found his words to be repulsive and unwarranted, but he could use your argument to defend them. I am consistent on detesting the use of profanity in public discourse, and see no reason to embrace its use in one circumstance but not another.

[FreedomAngel82]

61. What's really sad about

that case is Reid called Bush a loser and had to apologize but when Cheney told someone to fuck off he didn't have to apologize? Ugh.

[Grooner Five]

70. Reid didn't have to apologize...

He chose to, which was a classy thing to do. Cheney took the opposite route, which was not a classy thing to do.

[RetroLounge]

57. Too bad she didn't tesch you to MYOB.

while abusing you until your ears bled.

Go threadjack somewhere else...

RL

[Grooner Five]

68. I should "MYOB" on a public forum?

The OP found the profanity relevant to the thread when posting it in her message. Why should mention of that profanity be off limits in the ensuing discussion?

[RetroLounge]

90. Well I think people who threadjack are assholes

for example.

Now, did the profanity add or subtract from my message.

Feel free to discuss. Elsewhere.

RL

[Grooner Five]

97. Are you asking me to leave?

I'm not certain that you have the authority to make such a demand, nor do I see why you would appear to be so angry over a simple discussion that I believe is very much on topic.

[RetroLounge]

116. I have neither authority nor anger...

enjoy your discussion...

:hi:

RL

[Norquist Nemesis]

169. Well, Hi Bill!

:hi:

[Justpat]

21. Mine would have told me to watch my f***ing laungage. n/t

[Lochloosa]

29. LOL...exactly what my Mom would have said....

[Grooner Five]

50. Isn't that a conflicted message? eom

[donheld]

100. Sometimes you gotta say

:wtf: Tell your daughter :yourock:

[midnight armadillo]

5. I was in Indianapolis once

A few years ago, I was in Indianapolis...I noted the whole church on every corner thing (Including the "speedway church of the Nazarene", right by teh Speedway). It was quite alien to this New Englander.

I also noticed the strip clubs that seems to be on every fourth corner. Coincidence? I think not...

[Imagine My Surprise]

6. I know what you mean...

I get pissed off when I have those things foisted onto me, too. I know Alaska Air's CEO is evidently a born-againer who insists on little Bible verse note cards being placed onto the seat-trays. When I complained, it was pissing in the wind, because THAT came from the top down.

When I lived in Los Angeles, I once noticed that on the bottom of the drink cups at In 'n Out Burger (the best burgers on earth!!) there was a Bible verse. In THIS case, I knew, too, that the company was family owned and complaining would be useless. However, because they pay above-average wages to their workers and are community oriented, not to mention having the freshest fast food on the planet, I opted to continue eating there.

I guess, as they say, you just have to pick your battles. My guess would be that this company you mention is OWNED by someone who wants the verses on the bags. And it would seem that their merchandise is something your family can live without.

That's my 2 cents on it.

[movie_girl99]

8. oh geez

thanks for the warning, she is going to California for graduation and just so happens to be taking Alaska Airlines. I'll have to let her know about the note cards in advance.

[Imagine My Surprise]

10. She want to pop a valium...

before boarding. LOL

[movie_girl99]

39. good point

especially since her last name is of Lebanese dissent. I could just see them calling her aside and questioning her. Her grandparents are from Egypt but their parents were from Lebanon. They left because of their Catholic beliefs.

[customerserviceguy]

16. Good point

Making a commotion on an airline flight has FAR greater potential consequences than raising a ruckus in a store over some fundie garbage.

I always wanted to find the guy with the "John 3:16" sign at the football games (right behind the goal post, for view every time there is an extra point or a field goal attempt) and figure out what church he attends. Then, I'd sit in the front pew, and wave a Seahawks pennant every time his minister decides to speak.

[Imagine My Surprise]

27. isn't that the truth?

these days if you complained about flat seltzer they'd stop the plane mid-flight and arrest you for being a terr-ist. But just once, I would like to hear the pilot say, "Don't MAKE me stop this plane!"

[flygal]

66. Former Alaska flight attendant here

I hated those cards and got more than enough comments on them. Don't bother complaining, the f/a's hear it all the time, have tried to get the co. to stop and it will never happen. The founder of Alaska became a missionary - he was actually a true Christian - my hubby's grandmother knew him. He wasn't one of those tele-evangilist types. The company has always used the cards as a tribute to him.

Not a large number of f/a's were religious, those of us who weren't just learned to accept it. It was the ONLY aspect of Alaska that included anything religious - otherwise I'd be the hell out of there.

My hubby has a co-worker who insists on leading a prayer at mealtimes - now that would piss me off.

[movie_girl99]

23. how long since you've lived in LA

my daughter is going there on June 1st with friends for a week. They are planning on getting around the city by way of the new rail system. Do you know much about it? Can they get pretty much everywhere by using it?

[Imagine My Surprise]

26. LA is not known for its functional mass transit system...

there is a wonderful new "gold line" connecting Pasadena to downtown LA...but, depending on where your daughter will be spending time, a car rental leaps to mind. LA is the opposite of NYC in that respect.

[movie_girl99]

32. none of them are old enough to rent a car

they are all 18 and one is 20. The age for car rental is 21. Her boyfriend is from LA (Hollywood), he has been here (TX) for 6 years so he knows the area but the rail wasn't there when he lived there. They are staying with a friend who lives near Universal City.

[shawn703]

11. Hmm, maybe the Virgin Mary would have shopped at that store?

I better be quiet now.

[shadowknows69]

17. we need a HUGE coalition

and lobbying group of NON-Christians in this country to fight the Christianization of our supposedly secular nation. Only with sufficient numbers will we win this. Christians that value our seperation of church and state need to make their voice heard too.

[Toots]

12. Respond with Isaiah 32; 5-8

:-)

[Jo March]

22. Nice! I think I'll start using that one myself

I forget the many nuggets of wisdom in the OT.

[Lochloosa]

30. And for those of us not so enlighted....please explain

[Jo March]

42. These are the verses

Isaiah 32: 5-8

5. The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful
6. For the vile person (aka GOP) will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.
7 The instruments also of the churl (aka GOP) are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.
8 But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.

:)

On, edit, look at verse 6. Tell me that is not the * admin! They practice hypocrisy and do utter error against the Lord.

Hope that helps.

[Tux]

158. Please

Christians, understand that we're not all owners of a Bible. Would it kill you to explain these codes? Just paraphrase it or post it or anything and not assume we all own Bibles.

Thanks and have a day.

[Imagine My Surprise]

15. Note of Irony with Alaska Airlines...

though they do the Bible verse thing, they also sponsor gay events. Go figure! I guess that does balance things out somewhat. :)

[UdoKier]

31. When the student said "this isn't illegal"...

It would have been a good time to reply - "No, but it's fucking rude. Where do you get off assuming that everyone here practices your religion, and that you're entitled to impose it on everyone else. You have a house and a church to pray in. Could you please keep this to activities that include EVERYONE?"

I would be really pissed and I would complain.

God, I'm glad I don't live in N. Texas. Much of my extended family does, and I know from firsthand experience what it's like.

[movie_girl99]

35. i think its bullshit

our area is so ethnically diverse. We have one of the largest Asian populations in the burbs. I would be okay with a silent prayer time, that way everyone could pray to whomever they wanted. But to actually have a student leading all 350 kids in "prayer" is and using words like "our lord" and "god". I'm not okay with.

[UdoKier]

38. Why should there even be a moment of silence at a senior picnic?

Christ, I remember when people could just get together for things and not have to have religion thrust into it by some busybodies. Remember? I grew up in Texas, too, and we used to just do things for fun. Hell, I went to YMCA summer camp and there was only one short prayer in the morning, and that's a Christian deal!

What the hell is so wrong with a purely secular event? There are kids who don't believe in religion. I was one of them, even in high school.

[movie_girl99]

41. i totally agree

as i mentioned there are many kids there who don't worship the same god as well as those who don't worship at all.

[FreedomAngel82]

63. At my senior picnic

I didn't go but they gave a iternory if you wanted to go and could show up whenever. No where was their listed a prayer time. All the day was was to hang out one last time with your classmates/friends. They played games, had food, and you could sign year books etc. This is a new thing on me. :shrug: With my city we could go either way with political leanings so there's a nice diverse here and a nice balance.

[leyton]

113. How exactly did they impose it on shoppers?

You must have an all-encompassing definition of the word 'impose.'

[UdoKier]

136. What shoppers? It's a senior picnic.

Leading everybody in a prayer at a senior picnic for a PUBLIC high school is imposing and totally inappropriate.

[GreenPartyVoter]

36. I had to sit through a prayer yesterday all about

bringing God's light back into the USA, especially into politics, and never let us forget this is a Christian nation.... etc etc

No mention of Repubs or anything that would corss the line, just that the extreme ignorance of thought that the USA was founded by conservative evangelicals (and not unitarians and deists) really gets me steamed.

So I applaud your daughter and her friends and I am pleased to know there is hope left in the world becuase the next generation isn't as brain-washed as the GOP would like.

[movie_girl99]

37. it's really tough

for her and her friends, they are such a minority in that school. She has the most fabulous Government teacher though who has really sparked her interest in politics. He has not admitted it but she's pretty sure hes a Democrat. He is very liberal on issues and encourages them to write their Senators and Congressmen.

[GreenPartyVoter]

48. Just keep supporting her and let her know that there are more

of us in the world. Does she spend time on the internet? I have found communing across the phone wires with like-minded individuals very therapeutic. :)

[FreedomAngel82]

64. I guess they might

want to know this nice quote from George Washington:
"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian religion." I guess none of them have read any of Thomas Jefferson's letters.

[thecai]

46. What Does It All Mean...

... when so many people fear scriptures of Love and Life?
Hmmmmmmmm....

[SoCalDem]

58. It's not "fear".. It's the venue..that's all

There's a time and place for everything..

A sports loving executive would probably be chastised if he started calling out football plays and tossing a football at a board meeting...

ans a surgeon who suddenly started a song and dance routine during brain surgery, might be looked down at...

or how about a preacher, who in mid-sermon, dragged out a rack with clothes he planned to sell at his garage sale..and asked the congregation to "feel free to shop" during the service..


Life is not all ONE thing.. It's MANY things and there are many beliefs.. To impose any one of them where it is not invited, is "not a good thing"..

[Lerkfish]

62. hey! I'm a christian, but I am not arrogant enough to think my religion

supercedes everyone else's sensibilities.
I think characterizing the objection as "fear" is wrong.

Its not the content of the scripture, but what it represents for it to be on the bag.
Just like macluen said, Its the media, not the message.
Even if it was my favorite scripture, if I felt it was being crammed down people's throats who didn't ASK to hear about it, then how loving is that? Doesn't that ignore the MEANING of the message in favor of the act of SPREADING the message?

And, I don't want religion in public schools at all, because no matter how much fundies claim there is no pressure or derision to non-christians, that is nothing but bullhockey -- there is pressure and derision to people who don't wear the popular clothes, for goodness sakes, don't lie to me and say there is no inherent pressure from christians if prayers are allowed.

[thecai]

71. "Arrogant", "Lying"....?

Some grocery bags say "The Best in the Northwest", but if I disagree I do not take offense or insist "they are shoving their beliefs down my throat!" So it's perfectly fine for anyone to "promote their beliefs" in any venue, as long as it does not reflect Christian beliefs? If I buy a CD at a store and the bag has an advertisement for the group "Mega-Death" on it, I'm not about to curse and refuse to shop there. If I shop at a bookstore that promotes a Muslem book on it's shopping bags, I would not bother to even comment, much less get so angry, hostile and upset by it. (Hence the term "fear", since anger is a secondary emotion following pain or fear)...
And "as long as there are tests and exams there will always be prayer in school" (a joke I heard).

Some things you dislike, you just have to ignore, rather than cause a commotion, (just like I frequently have to do).

[Lerkfish]

79. um...nope,sorry, I still think its wrong to have prayer in schools.

because no matter how "fairly" administrators claim to execute it, it creates a hostile environment for nonchristians. the "lie" I was referring to was the lie that having prayers would not promote elitism and discrimination against nonchristians.

While I appreciate the energy it took to write your post, it has no effect on whether I would be upset at a christian message on a shopping bag or christian prayers in school.

When will christians understand that the separation of church and state BENEFIT christians as well as all other religions? Otherwise, What happens if you move to a predominantly muslim community and your children are forced to face mecca 5 times a day? what could it hurt?

:rant:

[Warren DeMontague]

118. Right, but, see, the school administrators are just doing the heathen kids

a favor. Teaching them about the "Good News" and hopefully saving their souls in the process.

Who could be opposed to that? I mean, Jesus is the truth and the ONE TRUE WAY, so why shouldn't students be taught all about him in public schools?

</sarcasm off>

Sorry, but, I fear you're arguing with a brick wall, here.

[BiggJawn]

77. No, they're just words, true enough...

It's one thing to have "Best in the Northwest" as a company slogan, it's another thing entirely to have a 2-millenia history of killing people who don't agree that you're the "Best in the Northwest"...

[MountainLaurel]

82. Snork!

:applause:

[Warren DeMontague]

117. What does it mean...

when so many people are so f*cking obnoxiously patronizing about how they have *the* answer?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[Blue_In_AK]

74. Christian marketing...

I remember seeing a news clip somewhere a few weeks ago about the massive proliferation of "Christian"-themed clothes etc. being marketed these days, that such things were really a huge money-making proposition. I can't help but be reminded of the wrath of Jesus in the temple as he was overturning the tables of the moneychangers. (And this from a man who normally seemed very slow to anger.) I think there's a special place in hell (if there is such a place) being made ready for these Mammon-worshippers.

[Jo March]

81. The love of money is the root of all evil

and the ever popular:

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Using Christ to make a buck is wrong. I equate it to the moneychangers in the temple, too. Christ would be quite angry, I'm sure, if he saw a table full of clothes with his image on them.

[marzipanni]

84. Lord, can John 3:16 on our bags be credited toward our redemption?

Sweatshop Watch
Update, March 2004: Agreement Reached with Forever 21 - Forever 21, Inc., the Garment Worker Center, Sweatshop Watch, and the Asian Pacific American Legal Center, on behalf of several Los Angeles garment workers represented by it, have reached an agreement to resolve all litigation between them. In addition, the parties have agreed to take steps to promote greater worker protection in the local garment industry. The parties are pleased to announce the resolution of this matter as a positive and symbolic step forward in demonstrating respect and appreciation for garment workers. Under the parties' agreement, the national boycott of Forever 21 and related protests at the Company's retail stores, initiated by the Garment Worker Center in 2001, have ended. The parties share a belief that garment workers should labor in lawful conditions and should be treated fairly and with dignity. Forever 21, the Garment Worker Center and Sweatshop Watch all remain committed to ensuring that the clothing Forever 21 sells in its stores is made under lawful conditions.
November 2001:
In Los Angeles, workers from six factories who sewed for the popular women's clothing line Forever 21 are calling for an official boycott.
The workers are owed hundreds of thousands of dollars in minimum wage and overtime pay. They worked long hours in unsafe and unsanitary conditions. And, some of the workers were fired for speaking out about the poor conditions.

"We worked ten to twelve hours a day for subminimum wages and no overtime," said Esperanza Hernandez, one of the garment workers. "A lot of our factories were dirty and unsafe, with rats and cockroaches running around."
"At first they promised that I would be paid $300 to $350 per week," said Araceli Castro, who also sewed Forever 21. "But when I went to
pick up my first paycheck, it was only for $250 even though I had put in extra hours in overtime. My boss claimed that she would pay me more when there was more work, but she never did."
more:
http://www.corpwatch.org/print_article.php?&id=792

[movie_girl99]

85. thanks for this info

i love these people and their morals and values. Print scripture on their bags but treat employees like shit...nice one.(not)

[kerry-is-my-prez]

86. The more corrupt/violent we get - the more "Religious" we become.

What THAT all about? And this has happened throughout history. And look at that sect in Utah that is rampant with molestation and polygamy.

It makes me question how valid Christianity is or wonder if these people are all just phony and totally misguided.

[Tux]

159. True

After the last election, I thought all Christians were hate-filled, ignorant, child molesting rednecks but I did meet a couple since then that made me understand that not all are like that. They even said that most Christians on TV and radio are the worst examples of Christians.

[Bluebear]

94. J.C. on a trailer hitch and John on a shopping bag....

I think I'll write a country song.

[movie_girl99]

95. that's funny n/t

[tjdee]

101. Forevr 21 sells...um...not fundie things, LOL....

That's WAY bizarre, I had to read th post a second time to discover it was a F21 store. Really weird.

[kath]

102. you and your daughter should report the school to the

ACLU and Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

[marzipanni]

103. Let's give more plastic bags back! BYOBag

(since I don't have a bag to preach on, here goes...)
<snip>
After being discarded, many plastic bags go airborne and they're increasingly getting caught in trees, fences, or the stomachs of birds and other animals. They end up clogging gutters, sewers and waterways. This led the Irish to call the bags their "national flag" and South Africans to dub them the "national flower."

So in March 2002 the government of Ireland imposed a 15-cent tax on each bag to control the country's consumption of 1.2 billion plastic shopping bags per year. The consumer was charged at check out and behaviour changed immediately. The tax resulted in a 90 to 95 percent drop in consumption and more than a billion fewer bags consumed annually.
The so-called "PlasTax" also raised $9.6 million dollars in its first year that the Irish government earmarked for a "green fund" for waste management and environmental initiatives. Retailers in Ireland, many of whom are now selling reusable bags, are also happy since they were spending $50 million a year on single-use plastic bags before the tax.
More dramatically, approximately 18 million litres of oil have been saved due to reduced production of plastic bags. These bags start as crude oil, natural gas, or other petrochemical derivatives. They are transformed into chains of hydrogen and carbon molecules known as polymers or polymer resin. After being heated, shaped, and cooled, the plastic is ready to be flattened, sealed, punched, or printed on.

"Every time we use a new plastic bag they go and get more petroleum from the Middle East and bring it over in tankers," says Stephanie Barger, ERF's executive director. "We are extracting and destroying the Earth to use a plastic bag for 10 minutes."
more...
http://www.nelsonbc.ca/pages/jessen/The_Bag_Beast.htm
Give Mother Earth a belated Mothers' Day present- get some canvas shopping bags and use them!

[movie_girl99]

141. what fabulous idea

from now on we can bring our own bag like we do at the grocery store. I had never considered it but i do think its a great idea.

[Rob H.]

109. On Mother's Day I gave my mom a copy of

The Best Democracy Money Can Buy by Greg Palast. As soon as she unwrapped it a little card saying something about the Holy Ghost (or the Holy Spirit, maybe) fell out. My family is non-religious so I said, "Here, let me toss that thing. Some dittohead fundie probably thought they were doing whoever bought the book a favor by putting that in there. Or maybe whoever did it is just praying that what Alterman says isn't true." She just laughed and said, "No, that's okay. I need a bookmark, anyway."

Now I'll admit I'm guilty of having put copies of Eric Alterman's What Liberal Media? or David Brock's The Republican Noise Machine right next to--or if I'm feeling especially ornery, on top of--copies of whatever semi-literate, ill-researched "book" Ann Coulter (or O'Reilly, Limbaugh, etc.) has out this month whenever I'm in bookstores. It struck me as weird that someone would stick a religious card inside a book about politics, though.

Then again, I do live in the Bible Belt, so....

[Tux]

160. I find those

In Buddhist books, Linux books, and other non-religious books. I usually put them in the Left Behind books or some other Christian literature. If they think it's important to spread, let's spread them.

[Rob H.]

162. Ha! That's a great suggestion!

I'm going to start doing that from now on. Thanks, Tux. :)

[Roaming]

110. This to me is a ridiculous overreaction by this girl...

All it had was a Bible reference for goodness' sake. She goes "off" as if it had said her mother was a whore or something. If she disagreed with the message that strongly, she could have just taken a refund and left. (And if the owners of that shop are true Christians, all her behavior earned her was some prayer on her behalf.)

[knitter4democracy]

129. She's a teen, for goodness sakes!

She was suprised to see it there (and it's demeaning to St. John's gospel, let alone Christ to put it on a shopping bag), and she was upset and shocked. What standard of behavior do you always live up to when you're upset and shocked?

[Roaming]

148. First of all, I don't see how it's demeaning to put a scripture verse

anywhere, people do it all the time on bumper stickers on the cars for goodness sakes, and why she should be so "upset and shocked" is beyond me, except that's she's hypersensitive about religious matters. If she didn't like it, just don't shop there; she didn't have to make a major scene; it just made HER look like an anti-religious bigot.

[noiretextatique]

150. oh no it didn't

it made her look like someone who is sick of having religion shoved down her throat at every turn. frankly, given her sitaution (at school), i can understand her frustration. it's not like she flushed a bible down a toilet or anything :sarcasm:

[knitter4democracy]

152. How is it not demeaning to put Holy Scripture on a bag?

Shopping bags like that are considered trash after their job is done. We really want Holy Scripture in landfills, decomposing with the rest of the trash? Bumper stickers bother me too, by the way, for pretty much the same reason: how are the going to be disposed of and whom are they converting?

That's the real problem: if you're worried about converting people, putting Bible verses everywhere isn't going to do it. Getting to know people and listening to them and their pain is much more likely to work. Jesus didn't put up a bunch of billboards or write verses like graffiti everywhere--he got to know people and talked with people. The placing of Bible verses on everything smacks more of the Pharisees than it does of our Lord.

She is sensitive because no one respected her position. She was upset because they were putting their issues right in her face--after she'd paid them hard-earned money. Her money for those clothes also was going to pay for those bags, and she got upset by that. Anyone who interpreted her behavior as that of "an anti-religious bigot" wasn't listening.

[NNN0LHI]

130. What would you have said if it had read “Allah Akbar” instead?

Be honest now.

Don

[movie_girl99]

142. you make an awesome point

I have said that many times to people when they think I'm silly for getting so bent out of shape when bible thumpers stand outside our public schools pushing their literature on kids. I have had many an argument with fundies telling them that by law they have to stay 100 ft away from the door. When parents ask why i get so mad, my reply is "what if someone was dressed in middle eastern clothing trying to hand out Muslim literature, I'd be willing to bet they'd be thrown so far off of school property or stoned". "We certainly cant have them converting our kids can we" (SARCASM). Its amazing the looks i get then.

[Roaming]

149. I don't care if it says "Join the Church of Satan" or whatever, there

is no excuse for crude behavior and a big scene like that; just don't shop there (and tell the management why). Besides that, any shopkeeper who would put Allah Akbar on there wouldn't stay in business for too long assuming his clientele wasn't 90% Muslim.

[leyton]

114. I think your daughter overreacted.

No offense, but this world has bigger problems than somebody putting a bible verse on the bottom of a shopping bag. How exactly were you harmed by this shopping bag?

[knitter4democracy]

131. How was our faith harmed by it?

The only time Jesus got angry enough to resort to violence was with the moneychangers in the Temple--people who were taking advantage of the believers and commercializing the faith.

I'm opening up a yarn shop this fall, and yes, I will have icons in the shop, as I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian, and this is an important part of my faith. I sure won't be advertising myself as a Christian store or putting Bible verses on stuff I'm giving out to my customers. I'll be pushing it enough with the icons, which will be there for me and for my growth in the faith.

[movie_girl99]

143. no harm done

i just get sick of it being forced down our throats at every turn. As i said before, we live in a bible belt so we have grown quite used to it. When my son graduates we plan on moving to a nice blue city.

[movie_girl99]

145. i really appreciate everyone's input

it's really nice to discuss this topic. On Sunday my daughter and i had a long talk about people. She has grown up in this bible belt suburb and sometimes loses hope that there are any "normal" people in this world. She asks me why we moved there and why we left Dallas (which is blue). We left Dallas when i got pregnant with her brother (she was 5 when he was born). She was in private kindergarten, we only had one income and there was no way we could do 2 kids in private school on one income. When she finished K we moved to the burbs. I kicked and screamed a bit because i had always lived in the city but my sister had moved to this particular burb and quite liked it. For the most part it has been a great place to raise kids. Both of them have pretty much grown up with all of the same kids in the same community. As my children have gotten older, they have noticed many hypocrisies in these people who drive around with fish on their cars and tote bush/cheney stickers. Many of them have kids that drink, cheat on tests, have sex etc...yet these are the same people who walk around preaching these morality and values yet are totally intolerant of anything they see as "abnormal". My daughter wrote a government paper on the dress code at her school. It includes no piercings aside from ears, no tattoos, and no hair color that's not "natural". Its amazing to see what parts of the dress code they tend to enforce more. A "hot" girl can walk around showing stomach, cleavage and ass crack and its okay but if someone has a nose ring they have to cover it with a band-aid because it's "distracting". IMO maybe 10 years ago a tattoo, piercing or "unnatural" hair color might have been a distraction but dude, if one cant deal with that in HS what's going to happen to them when they go to college?
Anyway she got a load of crap from a bunch of kids saying the reason for the dress code is to keep the kids safe..WTF. Since when is pink hair or a nose ring a threat to anyone?
So there's a little background as to why i think she got so upset about the bible verse on the shopping bag. Basically there is no escape from these fundie, RW maniacs until we are able to move to be near like minded folks.

[Vinca]

115. So what exactly is John 3:16? Shop till thou drops???

Sorry, clueless atheist here.

[Straight Shooter]

124. Got your barf bag ready? (Or shopping bag, whatever) Here it is:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ...

[Vinca]

125. And the connection to shopping is???

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

155. "If you aren't a Christian you'll go to hell but we still want your money"

[knitter4democracy]

126. More commercialization of the faith.

And what happened to your daughter at school was really, really wrong. I hope they at least make an appointment with the principal to discuss it. It might make something happen.

Btw, your daughter sounds pretty cool. Way to go, Mom!!! You rock!

[immoderate]

133. In N Out Burgers...

Has John 3:16 (or other biblical references) on all their packaging. I still eat their burgers. Sometimes they seem a little salty though.

--IMM

[AntiCoup2K4]

137. The sodium content of the burgers can be easily explained......

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. - Matthew 5:13

[Vektor]

138. NOOOOOOOOO!! I have always loved Forever 21!

Cute, affordable stuff. What the hell?!!? What are they doing? That is bizarre. I wonder if this is some wacko thing that a local branch is doing, or if it's nationwide?

As for your daughter's language - RIGHT ON!! I for one am quite thrilled that she called them on this B.S., and if her language was strong, so be it. If it's what she was feeling, it's what she should have said. Period.

[Chovexani]

164. Me too

It's the only mainstream clothing store I shop at, they have some funky cool little things. I never noticed the Bible verse on the bags before. Guess I'm not very observant.

Oh well, fuck 'em. No more Forever 21 shopping for me. I have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to fundies.

[Vektor]

166. Same here.

NO FUNDIES. I never saw the bible verses either. I'm curious if they are doing that everywhere?

[fleabert]

139. same thing on the bottom of cups at In-n-Out Burger...

(you don't have them in TX, but they are everywhere in CA)

what really sucks is they treat and pay their employees very well, and have great food at a very reasonable price. I haven't been back since a friend pointed it out to me. VERY small print.

[fleabert]

140. I am sure mary would have loved forever 21,

short jersey skirts and tank tops, made in sweatshops.

well, WERE made in sweatshops, hopefully.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=792

[TXlib]

146. I think that's a little overboard

You were shopping at a privately owned business. It is their right to put any messages they wish on their walls, windows, bags, whatever.

I'm an atheist, but i find John 3:16 pretty inoffensive. I don't think it would make me choose not to shop there.

I think it is a bit over-the-top to yell "WTF is that?" at the clerk. I probably would have said nothing, but just never returned, if it so offended me, or else politely informed the manager of my decision not to return because i don't like being proselytised to. However, if you've shopped there many times before, and never noticed it, it obviously isn't too in-your-face.

Bottom line, there's no call for that kind of rudeness. You can make your point much more effectively by calmly and respectfully stating why you are upset.

As far as the senior picnic prayer time, was that just a bunch of students doing this, or was it led and endorsed by a teacher or other school representative? If it was a bunch of students, then they have every right to have their own prayer group, and your child and her friends have every right to do something else at that time. If, on the other hand, it was endorsed and/or led by a faculty member, and/or your child was not free to get up and go somewhere else, then you have a legitimate complaint that I'd suggest you take up with the school, or, failing a proper response from them, the ACLU.

[Lannes]

151. It all started with the Rainbow man...

http://www.dvdmaniacs.net/Reviews/Q-T/rainbow_man.html








an exerpt

"As Rollen’s fundamentalism became more and more consuming his grip on reality started to slip. Soon he decided that it would be up to him to save people in time for the coming end times, and he started acting stranger and stranger.

He soon hooked up with a born again school teacher named Margarey Hockridge and the two got married and hit the road in a van, going from event to event to hold up their signs. In 1990, Margaret realized her husband might be a little off and filed for divorce.

A couple of years later, Rollen was staying in a hotel in Los Angeles and decided that he’d take the maid hostage, covering his windows in his religious placards in an attempt to get his word out across national television to as many people as possible. He was arrested, the cleaning lady unharmed, and he remains in prison to this day.

[noiretextatique]

154. wtf is "over the top"?

some of y'all don't seem to get out much. btw, a teacher was present at the picnic (per the original post). she's a kid for pete's sake...clearly this was just as expression of frustration: ever hear of that? next time this young lady should ask herself: what would TXlib do :eyes:

[TXlib]

167. "What would TXlib do?"

Not a bad question to ask oneself.

[noiretextatique]

168. really...

:eyes: a legend in your own mind? at least you have a sense of humor :7

[TXlib]

170. When in doubt...

always assume I'm being a humorous dick.

[RebelOne]

153. To me, seeing a silly little bible verse on a shopping bag

is so trivial and I would totally ignore it and not get my panties in a twist. I live in Georgia in the Bible Belt, so that stuff is common. I'm an atheist, so I have to let things like that pass where I live. And there are just about two churches on every block here. I kid you not.

[The Animator]

161. The Christ_Centered Mall has an art gallery...

"Christian art gallery deals only in the finest Christian-related art prints painted by the world's most gifted artists."

Excuse me? World's most gifted artists? I think not. I am the wolrd's most gifted artist, and I don't do Christian art!!!

They need to retract this statement for it deeply offends me. I my work is not featured in there little shit gallery they cannot claim to have the artwork of the world's most gifted artists!!! :grr:

[smbolisnch]

165. I don't think she handled it very well at all.

I would have probably returned my purchases and calmly explained why I was doing so. If I had said "what the fuck is that" my mother would have flipped the hell out. On that note, if I were shopping with my daughter (I don't have any kids)I would have been completely mortified if she had behaved that way in public, no matter how much she disagreed with the message or how old she was.

As for the picnic, I don't blame your daughter and her friends one bit for being upset, and if it was school sanctioned I would be just as upset if I were you.

[Mr_Spock]

171. Your daughter is cool

I admire her doing what is right. I'm glad I don't live where you live - I'd end up kicking people's asses every day. How can you live with these psychotic morons?

[The Straight Story]

172. On this whole thread: I think it is called 'Diversity'

I shop at a mexican store here in Columbus. Loads of religious stuff in the store. Don't bother me.

I used to work with a few hindu's in CA, helped out at their stores. They had similar things (though not on the bags) all over the store. Statues, candles, et al and copies of their religious works. It was almost like walking into a hindi temple.

I don't see it as pushing, I see it as someone letting their core ideals surround them in their work, a way of sharing beliefs as well - which we all do with just about everything in some subtle way or another (religious, political, et al).

Diversity is not, imho, being shoved down someone's throat when some group that holds beliefs you don't share displays those things in their store or merchandise.

Whether they are african, indian, chinese, et al people who own shops often share their faiths (or other beliefs) in a lot of different ways.

Wonder what the reaction would be in this thread if I had went into a store owned by some American Indians and they had printed something about their beliefs on the bag they put my stuff in and I went off on em.

A little tolerance, on both sides, can go a long way.