If Clark gets the nomination, we WILL be living in a one-party country

[maggrwaggr]

We'll have our neo-con right-wing candidate, Bush ...

And our moderate republican candidate, Clark.

I'm surprised people are having trouble seeing this.

It's a Republican's wet dream come true.

[Brian Sweat]

1. So who is to the left of Clark?

Dean?

On Edit:

I guess it is time for my to join the GOP since I agree with Clark on his support for thinks like:

Afirmative Action
A woman's right to choose
The environment
Seperation of Churck and State.

[Evil_Dewers]

4. Clark for civil unions, too...

...Any 'pugs you know in favor of somewhat equal rights for homosexuals?

[CWebster]

14. That is what he says

But we have no record of what he does.

Bush made a lot of promises to appeal to the voters but that was only for the purposes of campaigning.

The military indoctrination and philosophical bent, the Republican history, even the Clinton ties are not an asset or an indicator of future Democratic policies.

[Generic Other]

34. No, Bush made no promises

He always says, "We are going to take care of that. I have my people on it..." That's all the candidate ever said if he was asked a question. Or he outright lied to us. "I am a uniter, not a divider..."

Clark has made definite statements of his beliefs. Is he a liar? Does he have a record of being dishonest? Should we take him at his word? No, we should continue to pin him down on specifics as we should Bush.

Just remember, for the record, the two are world's apart.

[CWebster]

44. riduculous assertion

campaign "promises" claims, definite statements--these are all one and the same.

[Evil_Dewers]

50. Comparing Clark to Bush...

Nice hatchet job, CWebster. You can work for Karl Rove anyday.

[CWebster]

59. Sort of like saying

if you are not with us you are against us?

[Evil_Dewers]

67. No, not like that at all.

As far as we know: Clark tells the truth, admits he voted for Reagan, was enlightened by Bill Clinton, grew up and became a Democrat, yet gets hammered for casting his vote for Reagan.

Then when Clark states he's for civil unions, he is branded as a liar (by you) and compared Bush and the broken campaign promises (lies) he made.

[Generic Other]

62. Bush was deliberately vague. He never stated his beliefs

Clark says he has certain beliefs. He isn't making us guess what they are. If he's a man of his word, he will expand on his beliefs not hide them like Bush, Arnold and the other GOP scum do.

Did Bush say he'd give tax breaks to the rich? No he claims everyone got relief. Clark says the rich should pay more tax. One lied to us. The other has made a statement based on truth.

It's stupid to compare a known pathological liar's words to that of an individual who appears to have a record of telling the truth.

I take a man at his word unless he proves his word has no value. Bush has more than proven his word means nothing.

Clark has not.

[nolabels]

57. It's a pretty big boardroom table over at the Council on Foreign Relations

http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/marxism/2003w22/msg00174.htm


(snip)
Not before asking what really motivates him. Soros likes to portray himself as
an outsider, an independent-minded Hungarian emigre and philosopher-pundit
who stands detached from the US military-industrial complex. But take a look
at the board members of the NGOs he organises and finances. At Human
Rights Watch, for example, there is Morton Abramowitz, US assistant
secretary of state for intelligence and research from 1985-89, and now a fellow
at the interventionist Council on Foreign Relations; ex-ambassador Warren
Zimmerman (whose spell in Yugoslavia coincided with the break-up of that
country); and Paul Goble, director of communications at the CIA-created
Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (which Soros also funds). Soros's
International Crisis Group boasts such "independent" luminaries as the former
national security advisers Zbigniew Brzezinski and Richard Allen, as well as
General Wesley Clark, once Nato supreme allied commander for Europe. The
group's vice-chairman is the former congressman Stephen Solarz, once
described as "the Israel lobby's chief legislative tactician on Capitol Hill" and a
signatory, along with the likes of Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz, to a
notorious letter to President Clinton in 1998 calling for a "comprehensive
political and military strategy for bringing down Saddam and his regime".

Take a look also at Soros's business partners. At the Carlyle Group, where he
has invested more than $100m, they include the former secretary of state
James Baker and the erstwhile defence secretary Frank Carlucci, George Bush
Sr and, until recently, the estranged relatives of Osama Bin Laden. Carlyle, one
of the world's largest private equity funds, makes most of its money from its
work as a defence contractor.
(snip)

http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/extra/d1207hc.htm
George Soros, Imperial Wizard


Yes, I do have a foreign policy...my goal is to become the conscience of the world."

This is not a case of narcissistic personality disorder; this is how George Soros exercises the authority of United States hegemony in the world today. Soros foundations and financial machinations are partly responsible for the destruction of socialism in Eastern Europe and the former USSR. He has set his sights on China. He was part of the full court press that dismantled Yugoslavia. Calling himself a philanthropist, billionaire George Soros' role is to tighten the ideological stranglehold of globalization and the New World Order while promoting his own financial gain. Soros' commercial and "philanthropic" operations are clandestine, contradictory and coactive. And as far as his economic activities are concerned, by his own admission, he is without conscience; a capitalist who functions with absolute amorality.

Master-builder of the new bribe sector systematically bilking the world
He thrusts himself upon world statesmen and they respond. He has been close to Henry Kissinger, Vaclav Havel and Poland's General Wojciech Jaruzelski. 4 He supports the Dalai Lama, whose institute is housed in the Presidio in San Francisco, also home to the foundation run by Soros' friend, former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev. 5 Soros is a leading figure on the Council of Foreign Relations, the World Economic Forum, and Human Rights Watch (HRW). In 1994, after a meeting with his philosophical guru, Sir Karl Popper, Soros ordered his companies to start investing in Central and Eastern European communications. The Federal Radio Television Administration of the Czech Republic accepted his offer to take over and fund the archives of Radio Free Europe. Soros moved the archives to Prague and spent over $15 million on their maintenance. 2 A Soros foundation now runs CIA-created Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty jointly with the U.S. and RFE/RL, which has expanded into the Caucasus and Asia. 3 Soros is the founder and funder of the Open Society Institute. He created and maintains the International Crisis Group (ICG) which, among other things, has been active in the Balkans since the destruction of Yugoslavia. Soros works openly with the United States Institute of Peace-an overt arm of the CIA.
He thrusts himself upon world statesmen and they respond. He has been close to Henry Kissinger, Vaclav Havel and Poland's General Wojciech Jaruzelski. 4 He supports the Dalai Lama, whose institute is housed in the Presidio in San Francisco, also home to the foundation run by Soros' friend, former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev. 5
When anti-globalization forces were freezing in the streets outside New York's Waldorf-Astoria hotel in February 2002, George Soros was inside addressing the World Economic Forum. As the police forced protesters into metal cages on Park Avenue, Soros was extolling the virtues of the "Open Society" and joined Zbigniew Brzezinski, Samuel Huntington, Francis Fukuyama and others.
WHO IS THIS GUY?
George Soros was born in Hungary in 1930 to Jewish parents so removed from their roots that they once vacationed in Nazi Germany. 6 Soros lived under the Nazis, but with the triumph of the Communists moved to England in 1947. There, Soros came under the sway of the philosopher Karl Popper, at the London School of Economics. Popper was a lionized anti-communist ideologue and his teachings formed the basis for Soros' political tendencies. There is hardly a speech, book or article that Soros writes that does not pay obeisance to Popper's influence.
Knighted in 1965, Popper coined the slogan "Open Society," which eventually manifested in Soros' Open Society Fund and Institute. Followers of Popper repeat his words like true believers. Popperian philosophy epitomizes Western individual ism. Soros left England in 1956, and found work on Wall Street where, in the 1960s, he invented the "hedge fund."
(snip)

[Donna Zen]

70. give him back the money

Soros is currently putting up 11 million to fund issue ads aimed at bush...I have read that he may be putting up as much as 76 million

Taking money from someone you hate who only wishes you ill would seem such a whorish thing to do.

Write...call... beg...tell Soros he can keep his filthy money.

[nolabels]

75. That's an old trick out of the playbook

Make your customer or client think you are watching for their best interests, shower them with gifts, make freinds with them, find them little levers about them that can be pulled for your benefit.

Crazy people are just like the rest of the population, good ones and bad ones, diabolical ones and dum dums. Many sales men are spun out of the same type of cloth. It's just who they are.

This guy is using people's own greed against them in that classic play with Judda. I am not religous, but history is replete with these folks.

The end game is to keep things intact but have the upper hand at the end, at the same time.

It's called mangaged chaos

[LiberalBushFan]

83. soros endorsed primarily DEAN

so he guess he's the biggest part of the conspiracy

[nolabels]

86. The fear one might have a bigger war chest of money does work

We are being held hostage to a corporate controlled Media. Some said they would not play the game with them, yet they all run to it in one way or another. I had hoped some would be different, but to play the game you got to have the ball (or big wad of cash)

I guess if people wanted to elect Honest people they wouldn't be looking to elect any politicians.

[Evil_Dewers]

41. You make Clark sound like Satan...

But at this point, I'd take Satan over Bush.

[maggrwaggr]

22. everybody, even Lieberman seems to be to the left of Clark

This guy's making Lieberman look like an old time Democrat

[fertilizeonarbusto]

28. what are you smoking?

.

[Forkboy]

30. now I KNOW you dont have a clue

[maggrwaggr]

37. I despise Lieberbush. But he has a democratic voting record

you can point at

Clark has a republican voting record.

[goodhue]

79. indeed

Clark appears more and more "moderate" or "independent" with no real party identification.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/969032.asp?cp1=1

En route to his first campaign stop as a candidate, a high-energy rally at a local restaurant, Clark said he has few specific policy ideas to offer voters right now and offered a few thoughts that might surprise Democrats flocking to his campaign.

* * * *

Clark, relaxed and chatty, portrayed himself as a different kind of Democrat, one without strong partisan impulses. He said he “probably” voted for Richard M. Nixon in 1972 and backed Ronald Reagan. He did not start considering himself a Democrat until 1992, when he backed fellow Arkansan Bill Clinton. “He moved me,” Clark said. “I didn’t consider it party, I considered I was voting for the man.”

* * * *

Clark said the country “will not function well” with one party controlling the White House and Congress. He sounded a bit like former presidential candidate H. Ross Perot as he talked about focusing on “context” and not specifics and his yearning to work “with people of all sides and all parts of the political spectrum.”

* * * *

Clark said he supports a ban on assault weapons and was uncertain of precisely what the Brady gun law does — and if any changes to it are needed. The law requires background checks and waiting periods for gun purchases.
“I support the Second Amendment. People like firearms, they feel secure with firearms, they should keep their firearms,” said Clark, who has been shooting weapons since he was young.

[maggrwaggr]

84. yeah, those are words of a committed Democrat (NOT)

He should run as an indie, not use our party for his personal goals.

[Breezy du Nord]

100. He said he was liberal

on Bill Maher, if that means anything.

I find myself liking him more than any if the other candidates. I liked Kucinich all right, but I just think Clark would be a better president.

[OKNancy]

38. He also came out for Universal Health Care

that's not very Republican of him....it's down right left wing.

[Capn Sunshine]

118. Who's to the left of Clark?

anyone.

[Evil_Dewers]

2. It is already a one party country...

according to Naderites...

[Nashyra]

3. PUHLEEEZEE

That kind of tactic has no value whatsoever.

[Evil_Dewers]

5. That tactic...

is the reason Jesus W. Bush is POTUS.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

95. funny, I thought the Supreme Court stopped the vote counts?

I guess it was Nader that made them do that :)

[Forkboy]

8. lol...I think he's obsessed with Nader

[Evil_Dewers]

29. Forkboy...I think you are correct.

I hate the man.

[RobertSeattle]

10. I sure hope this silly internal sniping ends in the next week or so

Else I hope Wesley's website starts up its own Discussion forums.

http://www.clark04.com/

[maggrwaggr]

24. if you don't like it, don't read it! Nobody's forcing you

to read every freaking forum.

I thought DU was for the expression of ideas and opinions.

what's all this bullshit about censoring dissent?

[Forkboy]

32. I dunno...what IS all this bullshit about censoring?

because you're the only one to mention it.

[Evil_Dewers]

33. Nobody advocates censorship...

Though we can agree to abhor stupid threads and flame baiters.

[maggrwaggr]

40. Yeah? Every other post is "don't bash candidates!" (in a whiny voice)

We don't have anyone nominated yet. DUH! Now is the time to compare and contrast and yes ARGUE.

If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen.

I'm tired of these "quit bashing my candidate" posts!

Bunch of whiners!

Bash away! I love to argue! That's why I'm here!

[Evil_Dewers]

45. I don't have a whiny voice...

But my candidate's dad could beat up your candidate's dad.

Without presenting any facts, you called Clark a moderate Republican.

Only a fool argues without facts on their side (Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Liely, Anthrax Coulter and maggrwaggr.) :)

[maggrwaggr]

63. wow, you made me laugh there. But look at this:

I can't imagine how anyone who voted for Reagan could POSSIBLY be a true democrat.

I mean, come on. Can you, honestly?

Or are you too young to remember Reagan in 1980?

That was my first election. I was in shock when Reagan actually beat Carter. Reagan was an idiot, a fool, and dangerously right-wing. It was as obvious as could be.

[HawkerHurricane]

116. I'm not a true Democrat, then.

I guess I better leave, since I failed the ideological purity test.

And while we are at it, we can throw out Hilary Clinton; she worked for Goldwater (Reagan's spiritual predesessor).

And after you're done throwing out the 'Reagan Democrats', you can start working on those whose Ideological Correctness doesn't meet your high standards.

And then, you can have the party all to yourself.

[Forkboy]

53. words on a screen have a whiny voice?

[Carrion]

6. Hog Slop!

Saying Clark is a moderate Republican is like saying Clinton was a Republican. Wake up and smell the best chance we have of ridding the White House of extremist Rethugs.........

[CWebster]

23. Clinton

was the best Republican president we ever had.

[Evil_Dewers]

52. Clinton was the best president in my lifetime...

Michael Moore.

[Brian Sweat]

64. Well, if that is the case, then what this country needs another

great Republican president.


Damn, did I just say that. Someone please help me. :)

[fertilizeonarbusto]

7. Evidence?

I hate to burst your paranoid fantasy, but from what I read of Clark's economic positions, most remarkably his sensible call to raise taxes on the rich, I would hardly put him where you have. The first responder makes a good point in that there isn't much of a broad ideological spectrum to choose from, with the exception of Kucinich or Sharpton, neither of which have a prayer, when one considers the political inclinations of most Americans.
Again, I plead to those of you committed to a candidate not to hand the Rethugs ammunition by idiotic ad hominem attacks on your boy's (or girl's) opponents. The only thing that will get us is a return of this criminal administration-unless, of course, you want that, because Unca Karl told you it was the thing to do (I can't help but thinking that there's lurking Freepers spreading unrest here and in other liberal sites).
Let's grow up and act wisely and not blow this one for a change, shall we?
One last thing: Clark at least has the cojones not to run from the word "liberal." About time someone (again, other than Dennis Kucinich) did that.

[random]

21. Ditto, outstanding post...

I, for one, will vote for almost anyone who isn't Bush, but Clark certainly looks like the most electable.

If you have a favorite candidate, tell us all about him/her. If you feel the need to trash someone elses Dem candidate, shut the hell up!

[maggrwaggr]

27. I'm open minded. I like several of the candidates

And I did like Clark. But now I don't. This is a revelation I had about him yesterday.

I think selling out for an "electable" candidate, AT THIS POINT IN TIME when we haven't even NOMINATED ANYONE!!!!!!!!

Hello!?

is just fucking STUPID. Right now is the time when we have to put these guys under the MICROSCOPE and be honest with ourselves and honest about what we want to represent.

THINK AHEAD PEOPLE! If Clark is the nominee, are we gonna be proud of that in ten years?

[nolabels]

68. I try to stay away from the fiction section

I wonder if ever occurred to anyone to watch what they do and not spend too much time on what they say.

The wolf in sheep's clothing was merely an opportunist

[barbaraann]

9. Will he go after the BFEE?

If not, he might as well be one of them. Even though Bill Clinton did a lot of good things (and some I don't like) he didn't go after them and they just worked in the shadows and gained strength.

I'm getting to the point where I'm almost a single-issue voter and my issue is whether a candidate will go after the BFEE with RICO and every other legal weapon in the government's arsenal.

[maggrwaggr]

15. I'm with you on that. I resent the suggestion I'm using some "tactic"

There's no tactic here. Just expression. That's what I use DU for, as a place to express myself to (usually) like-minded people.

There are those who say "Clinton is the best republican president we ever had". There's reason to think this. Clinton could have been a moderate republican (at least in the "old days" when I was growing up). Now since the party has gone so right-wing, perhaps not. There aren't many common-sense republicans left. But Clark strikes me as one of them.

Listen, I grew up in the military. My Dad was an Army officer, so that was the only world I knew. I respect and admire Clark for the things that he is good at. I am for getting rid of Bush even if we have to replace him with an honest republican.

But as a Democrat, I think that backing Clark is a big mistake. I seriously think it would be the death of the Democratic party as we know it. There would be no "left" party remaining in this country, only a right-wing fundamental Christian party, and a Centrist common-sense party.

NEITHER are what I want for our country.

And I'm surprised that others here don't have a problem with this.

Say goodbye to the Democratic party that we all know. It will die out with Senator Byrd.

[disgruntella]

26. Common Sense - It's A Nightmare Come True!

Run! Run For Your LIVES!!!

[barbaraann]

48. I grew up in the military, too!

Perhaps that is why we have similar opinions about Gen. Clark.

[MysticMind]

16. oh please...

The partisan GOP attack on Clinton made the American voters turn on the GOP. If Clark does nothing but call for investigations of Bush it'll be viewed as a partisan witchhunt. Clinton hasn't gone after Bush because he understands the reality of being President. We should present an alternative as opposed to just being "not as bad as Bush."

[maggrwaggr]

31. exactly. We can do better than "he's electable"

What we need to do is make sure that the OTHER candidates that we actually LIKE are "electable"

That's my point. Duh.

And I"m NOT gonna say here who I like the most, because the point of my post is NOT to support some other candidate at the expense of Clark.

Clark let me down and it REALLY REALLY bugs me!

[barbaraann]

42. The GOP attack on Clinton was not just partisan, it was wrong.

They impeached him for lying about adultery. That is a very, very different thing from the monumental wrongdoings and lies of the BFEE.

Of course you are correct that Clark must do more than call for investigations of Bush; but I want to be assured somehow that the BFEE will be exposed and dismantled. I am not a political tactician or strategist but perhaps Gen. Clark can figure out a way to do this. I do hope so.

[MysticMind]

74. I'm suggesting we just focus on

Getting a Dem President.

[Donna Zen]

81. It would seem we've upped the anti

Now we can impeach someone before we elect them, and call them karl rove's wet dream on the same day that the man calls for cutting defense spending and turning it into health care.

Do you understand how fucked up that is?

Karl Rove will not send Orin Hatch to scare you; he will send one of your own filled with lies. I always wondered what it would look like, now I know.

[maggrwaggr]

85. oh give me a fucking break with the Karl Rove comparisons

Jesus Christ the "if you don't agree with me you might as well have Rove's dick in your mouth" is just fucked up.

shut the hell up and keep an open mind.

Your tactics are as bad as the fascists.

[Trajan]

112. Deleted .....

Deleted ...

[OKNancy]

49. How does this sound?

"We are going to ask, `Why are we engaged in Iraq, Mr. President — tell the truth,' " he said, standing on a chair. "Why, Mr. President? Was it because Saddam Hussein was assisting the hijackers? Was it because Saddam Hussein had a nuclear weapon that might bring a nuclear cloud?"

The crowd shouted back answers. "Oil!" one person yelled. "Halliburton!" yelled another.

General Clark said: "We don't know. And that's the truth. And we have to ask that question."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/19/politics/campaigns/19CLAR.html?ex=1064635200&

[barbaraann]

72. Sounds like a good start to me!

A complete answer to the question of why we are in Iraq would be enough to expose everything, IMHO.

[knight_of_the_star]

82. That depends on who his AG is

He should nominate a DA or AG from NYC or LA or someplace where the DA actually has a rep of going after crooks and organized crime, etc. If you want someone who will go after BFEE, pick someone who will do that for their Attorney General, not just appoint someone because of politics. We need someone running the DoJ that actually does their job and isn't there for political reasons. I'm sure Clark will do that.

[dfong63]

92. exc point!!! it's not enough for the dem nominee to hold a candle,

... he has to fight the darkness.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

11. Nader Said There Was No Difference Between Bush and Gore, Too

And he lied.

Clark is pro-abortion, pro-affirmative action, pro-gay rights, pro-tax cut rollback, pro-revisit NAFTA, pro-internationalism, and a host of other pros and cons that are consistent with progressive ideology.

He might not be as pure as you want on the issue of Iraq, but he would be a hell of a lot more enlightened that the current pResident.

DTH

[oasis]

12. Oh m' gosh! please tell Michael Moore he supports a "Stupid White Man".

:wow:

[maggrwaggr]

19. Do you think Michael Moore knew that he voted for Reagan and Nixon?

do you think Michael Moore knows that clark would have voted for the IWR?

I really really liked Clark until he came out with this bs in the last two days. I feel like the guy punched me in the stomach. It's not a good feeling.

I feel betrayed in fact! I feel like the object of some DNC trick!

The old bait and switch

[DoveTurnedHawk]

20. Maybe Rather Than a DNC Trick, He's Just Being Honest?

:shrug:

Clark might be too honest for the Presidency, and if so, that's just a sad statement about our society.

DTH

[oasis]

39. And Hillary once worked for Barry Goldwater's presidential campaign.

She managed to convince most democrats that she's the real thing.

I believe Clark is someone who is genuinely concerned about the direction that Bushco. is taking this great nation of ours.

Wesley is answering the call to rescue our Constitution? That's what real patriots do.

[maggrwaggr]

43. I agree that Clark is an actual patriot

If you guys misinterpreted what I said ..... I'm not bashing the man Clark. I think he's a good man. I grew up around guys like him in the military and I think he's a fine general.

I just think he's a moderate republican who, if it weren't for the neo-cons hijacking the republican party, would STILL be a republican!

So where does that leave the Democratic party?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

47. OK, in the Interests of Reasoned Debate

On what basis do you rest your claim that Clark is a moderate Republican?

DTH

[DoveTurnedHawk]

104. Somehow, I Had a Feeling There Would Be No Takers (eom)

DTH

[Donna Zen]

78. Probably

How clever that you should leave out the qualifier "probably" or that it was meant as an acceptance that he understood what pressure they were under. Of course he might just have voted against the res seeing correctly that dubya had no intentions of going to the UN. What is telling is that he did not use his anti-Iraq stance to condemn the others and thereby gain points for himself.

In addition it is very telling that you failed to point out his willingness to cut defense spending and thus, fund healthcare. Picking and chosing the facts, picking and chosing who to harm...your day must be most interesting.

[maggrwaggr]

87. Oh you busted me. I AM KARL ROVE! I ADMIT IT!

HA HA HAH AHAHAHHAHHAHHH!!!!!

[Donna Zen]

13. Surprise...surprise....surprise

Having checked several "liberal" boards around the web...I was not surprised to seeing a post equating Clark to a neo-con pop up at DU. The same meme is being pushed everywhere. The same shoddy Pristina stories are being batch emailed to unsuspecting targets even as Bill Clinton is driving down the Kosovo Streets to cheers and roses. Rove knows your lefty paranoia well, your ability to con yourselves both old and new. And most of all he knew that you would believe anything about anyone in the military. This crud's for you.


You know I always thought that Rove would push all the lefty "hot" buttons, and watching it unfold has brought the curious mix of awe and revile. So this is marketing hell...

Question? How many big bad PNAC babyeaters live in what CNN describes as a tiny house? Where's all the Wes Clark payolla that he's been suckin' up from Jackson Stevens after he gassed the Haitian babies? The center will not hold. All hail...bow at the altar of Rove for he makes nonsense go down so easily.

[maggrwaggr]

35. WHOA!! I did NOT compare him to a NEO-CON!!

Read the freaking post. Read my other posts. The man is not a neo-con. To me, neo-cons aren't even real republicans, they've hijacked the republican party.

My point is that if Clark gets the nomination we'll have two version of the Republican party in this country, and no Democratic party!

We'll have the neo-cons..... and we'll have the moderate common sense republicans.

Where are the democrats?

[edward]

77. I agree with you.

There are some who actually think having "Eisenhower" representing the Democratic Party a good thing. My question-like yours-is, Is this the best the Democratic Party can do?
This is not to kick candidate Clark, but to ask why is merely being a general superior to other Democrats with life long service to the party and its interests.

[kalash477]

99. beacause

its better to have a Democratic general who has a fighting chance of beating bush on the ticket than democrats (who for the most part arent any more liberal than Clark) with no chance in hell of taking down bush.

[Woodstock]

105. I think Dean or Kerry would have much more than "a chance in hell"

of beating Bush. Bush's numbers are down, and these candidates are getting respect from swing voters. So far I like Clark, as well - although I need to know more about him - but he's a long way from our only electable candidate.

[kalash477]

96. whats the diference

between a moderate Republican and a moderate Democrat? I would say Clark is a moderate Dem. not a moderate Republican. They are close to each other but they still have major differences.

[Skittles]

17. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

MY F***ING HEAD HURTS

[Donna Zen]

18. It's a Republican's wet dream come true.

What's that ....? Yes...I think you doing a great job.

[NNN0LHI]

25. Closer to a Republican's nightmare come true n/t

[maggrwaggr]

36. it's a neo-cons nightmare, NOT a republican nightmare

For the republicans who want to effectively get rid of the old democratic party, it's the way to do it.

Jesus, I'm starting to repeat myself here.

I'm really surprised so many DUers seem blind to this.

Where are the liberals here?

[oasis]

46. Are we liberal? yes. Do we want to beat Bush? yes. Is there a cost? yes.

We don't get our messiah this time around.

[maggrwaggr]

58. if that's the case, then fine. I'll take him over Bush any day

I just think it will kill the Democratic party as we know it.

Or maybe as we used to know it. It seems to be pretty dead NOW

[diplomats]

61. I read your post

what's your evidence that Clark's a Republican? Because he voted for Nixon and Reagan? You care more about how he voted decades ago than what his stands are on the issues today? That doesn't make sense to me. But I guess my priorities are different.

[bloom]

93. I'm here

[cmd]

51. Karl Rove Slept Here n/t

[maggrwaggr]

54. yes, Karl Rove is reading this thread cackling with glee. Give me a break

Where do people get off thinking that if we argue about candidates that somehow that makes Rove happy?

All nine aren't running against Bush. Only one of them will. Now's the time to argue

[Forkboy]

55. lol

I like that :)

[Evil_Dewers]

56. Kill Whitey!

j/k :)

[disgruntella]

60. blah blah blah blah n/t

[Evil_Dewers]

71. Well, I was kidding...

And hopefully maggrwaggr knows that. You can put me on ignore if you don't like it and/or report me. I'll edit it if maggrwaggr wants me to, but I need to know soon. Ah, fuck it. It is gone.

[maggrwaggr]

65. how old are you, evil?

I have a feeling you don't actually remember Reagan the candidate.

[Evil_Dewers]

69. I remember Reagan...

My first vote was to punch that card for Walter Mondale in 1984.

[Gman]

66. This is the kind of waste of bandwidth GD post that's pissing everyone

off and wasting DU disk space. It has no socially redeeming purpose.

[maggrwaggr]

73. then don't read it! My post is about the future of the party, so

if you're not interested in that, maybe you should avoid DU altogether.

[Forkboy]

76. If you really care about the future of the party

why dont you start providing something more for people to discuss than "It's a Republicans wet dream come true"?

[IranianDemocrat]

94. Holy shit I agree with Forkboy.

;-)

[Forkboy]

111. hehe

it's a funny ole world :D

[Pastiche423]

80. In the immortal words of Molly Ivins..

"Don't listen to what he says. Watch what he does." Or in clark's case, also pay attention to what he's done.

For cripe's sake! He voted for Nixon! and Reagan.
He likes some PNACers and would like to work w/them again.
He was a repug until the age of 44.
He said he would have voted for IWR.
His stance is close to Lieberman's and Kerry's on IWR
"Already the scent of victory is in the air." (re: Iraq)
He stated, "George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair "should be proud of their resolve..."
He worked for Stephens, Inc
He worked (was on the board of) Acxiom, which traces back to PROMIS

I am of the opinion that clark will sink his own ship, but in the meantime, I will be watching and listening very closely.

I want a real Democrat for our next president, not a marketed, pseudo democrat.

Listen and learn.

[newsguyatl]

89. AMEN

pastiche!!



btw, where did you get that quote what he said dubya and blair should be proud of their resolve? i'd like to see that one myself...

man oh man, this is gettin ugly.

[Pastiche423]

101. London Times, 4/10/03

[tjdee]

90. Lord, now she's got two lists.

One for Edwards, one for Clark.

Did Dean vote for Nixon?

We don't know, nobody asked him.

[NashVegas]

91. Wall Street Generals - Masters of War

Clark
Perle
Feith
Cheney
Rice


fief

\Fief\, n. (Law) An estate held of a superior on condition of military service;

The 21st century looks more and more like someone transposed the numbers to 12, every day.

[Woodstock]

106. We have got to learn more about Clark

That is for sure.

[MariMayans]

88. Clark isn't a moderate republican

He's a Scoop Jackson old school neo-con. Where do you think neo-cons came from? Republicans didn't invent them, we did and then pissed them off by not listening to their strident militant need for violence and hegemony and they ran off and backed Reagan. The money powers that backed that move are mildly pissed at Bush for a number of reasons and they are going to try and make their return to the party through Clark since Democrats know Lieberman too well for him to take the primary.

[oasis]

97. Wiley ol' Bill Clinton is snookered again.

:crazy:

[kalash477]

98. neo cons

used to be democrats, now they arent. Just like Clark used to be a Republican and now he isnt. People evolve and grow and you cant always judge them by what they did many many years ago.

[bloom]

102. kick for pitt

[yellowdawgdem]

103. why not get a real democrat

I can't help agreeing with your post. Clark is still an unknown to me, but as he becomes more known, his republican roots are showing all over the place. I think Clinton is in overkill mode, thinking that neither Kerry nor Dean could win the election. I think either one of them could win handily, and we don't need to go farther right to win this, and shouldn't. Gephardt, Edwards, or Graham could win as well, but since they are a bit lower in the polls, I tend to focus on the frontrunner candidates. Maybe Clark would be ok, and I'd vote for him if nominated, but I'd have to hold my nose to do it. Just like if Leiberhawk got the nom.

[kalash477]

107. read what Clark says

about the issues before you claim he is not a real democrat. And on a side note; when Bush went to war in Iraq about 70% of the populace supported him. Now if you believe only "real Democrats" were against the war before and when it happened then that means only 30% of the populace are "real democrats." 30%percent doesnt win elections.

Like most people Clark was ambiguous about going to war, if this makes him a moderate republican, as some are saying, than theirs and your idea of a Democrat is too far left for one to win over most of the electorate. Please, be realistic.

[yellowdawgdem]

108. Iraq war vote

I'm not basing being a real democrat on the Iraq war vote.
To me, that was a pressure vote, and congress caved. I'm basing it on his support for Reagan and other republican presidential candidates, and that he only recently switchd parties. You are assuming that he'd do better in the general election, and you might be right. But you might be wrong.
As far as being realistic, I did say I'd vote for him if nominated. Not realistic enough?

[quam]

109. Has Clark Contributed to a Democratic Campaign?

... how about a Republican Campaign?

I am interested how the results of your research will turn out. More importantly, I think you will be interested in the results.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

110. Yup

$1,000 to Erskine Bowles' campaign in 2002. No other known contributions, IIRC.

DTH

[MrPrax]

113. Yup the Line is Deep on the 3rd yard line

on the Left...good to see the last gasp at dissent being extinguished by candidates' and their supporters...

anyone rem Gep and his 250,000 ranch weekend funraisers?

And he is the working man's friend

[seventhson]

114. THANK GOD(DESS) SOMEONE IS SAYING THIS

I just spent a half hour looking for a thread that tells the truth on this issue and got damn near NADA.

Where are the poeple who SEE this?

Has DU been infiltrated by the right wing under our very NOSES????


AAAAGGGGHHHH!!!

It is so disheartening.

People who fall for Clark will stand for nothing!!!

Except more right wing debauchery and bloodlust.

Too damn bad, too.

I thought we really had something here.

Clark is a menace to Democracy.

[Democat]

115. That's what Ralph Nader said in 2000 - Don't you people ever learn?

You would think that after almost 3 years of Bush people would stop making statements that have been proven false.

I guess some people enjoy spreading propaganda more than they care about getting rid of Bush.

[GiovanniC]

117. This Is a Sad Day For This Moderate-to-Liberal Dem

In my foolish youth, I fancied myself Republican... even voted for Reagan.

I found out today that the Democratic party doesn't want me. I'm tainted by my vote 23 years ago. Go vote for Dubya, the real Democrats seem to say. We don't want you.

After voting for Clinton twice and voting for Gore in the last election, I found out that I'm not a real Democrat.

*sigh*

[Democat]

119. Many of the people bashing Clark & Dean are Bush supporters

There are many disruptors posting here lately.