US General in Iraq: "I think that this could still fail"

[katinmn]

And we're supposed to be all rah-rah about this war? I'm glad those "in theater" are starting to be more forthcoming. They are at odds with Bush, Rumsfeld and Rice.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/19/international/middleeast/19iraq.html?hp&ex=1116561600&en=49f1e36f402e0bd0&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Generals Offer Sober Outlook on Iraqi War

By JOHN F. BURNS and ERIC SCHMITT
Published: May 19, 2005
BAGHDAD, Iraq, May 18 - American military commanders in Baghdad and Washington gave a sobering new assessment on Wednesday of the war in Iraq, adding to the mood of anxiety that prompted Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to come to Baghdad last weekend to consult with the new government.

In interviews and briefings this week, some of the generals pulled back from recent suggestions, some by the same officers, that positive trends in Iraq could allow a major drawdown in the 138,000 American troops late this year or early in 2006. One officer suggested Wednesday that American military involvement could last "many years."

Gen. John P. Abizaid, the top American officer in the Middle East, said in a briefing in Washington that one problem was the disappointing progress in developing Iraqi police units cohesive enough to mount an effective challenge to insurgents and allow American forces to begin stepping back from the fighting. General Abizaid, who speaks with President Bush and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld regularly, was in Washington this week for a meeting of regional commanders.

In Baghdad, a senior officer said Wednesday in a background briefing that the 21 car bombings in Baghdad so far this month almost matched the total of 25 in all of last year.

-more-

[gristy]

1. Only 25 car bombings in Baghdad last year?

In Baghdad, a senior officer said Wednesday in a background briefing that the 21 car bombings in Baghdad so far this month almost matched the total of 25 in all of last year.

That seems far too low.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

2. That number is about right...they also used a lot of mortar and rocket....

...attacks last year.

[va_dem]

55. car bombs

I thought the same, there were alot more last year and they must be effective as they are using them more and more.

[LizW]

3. "Fail" means different things to the military

than it does to Bushco.

As far as Bushco is concerned, this mission was as success on Nov. 2. It's further success is measured by each million that is transferred to the coffers of Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, etc.

This war is a big conduit to funnel wealth too Bushco cronies, and it's doing that every minute of every day. We'll be there as long as there's a penny to be grabbed.

[glitch]

18. This cannot be repeated often enough. Everybody needs to realize the truth

Great post, thanks. there should be a realitybot that regularly repeats your post throughout all the DU boards, hourly.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. Sadly people who follow Bush won't

If you remember shortly after the "election" Bush was asked about accountability and he said the people had that chance on November 2nd and he won and he assumed that meant he could do his rightwing extreme agenda whether here at home or in Iraq. Of course we all know he knew it was stolen.

[mopaul]

4. sober outlook?

so that's what they call a clusterfuck these days.

an old military term.

[cliss]

30. LOL

Oh, what a cutie! The dog, I mean (NOT Babs).

[Al-CIAda]

5. Look like we've turned a corner, the resistance's backs are broken!

[Wright Patman]

6. Does anyone know if these are always

actual people doing away with themselves in these "suicide cars" or is it now being done in many cases through remote control?

Whenever I see the term "suicide car bomber," I think of the movie "Christine."

Well, there is apparently a glut of cars on the worldwide auto market, so this is a lot cheaper than procuring Abrams tanks.

[SweetLeftFoot]

7. That said

there is plenty of anecodtal evidence to suggest that not all the suicide car bombers are willing participants.

There was a report from a Guardian journo saying he'd seen a hand chained to the wheel after one bombing. Such proxy bombings were used by the IRA too.

Of course, there is no shortage of willing young jihadis coming from Saudi and yemen too.

[Turbineguy]

34. Instead of going after Iraqi civilians

they should try their luck with PNACers.

[SweetLeftFoot]

41. Too well guarded

the creatures lurk deep in their burrows.

[AzDar]

8. WHY, WHY, WHY are we still there????

[grytpype]

16. WHY did we go in?

[followthemoney]

24. We live in a very weak form of democracy

Our little nudges in the direction of reality has little effect on the course set by the plutocracy. The only way this war ends is the way any war ends. Dead soldiers.

[TornadoTN]

9. Our only "OUT"

Is a full-blown civil war in Iraq. I hate to say it, but that is the only way that the Bush regime will turn tail and run. Of course, it will costs the lives of many good Americans before they get to that point. They will probably draw down to protect the "infrastructure" (i.e.-oil) and let the Iraqis duke it out.

Their short sightedness will lead to a full blown regional war with the Iranians rushing in to grab their piece of the pie.

The American people are starting to wake up to this disaster, but is it too late?

[katinmn]

10. I was glad to see this story carried on the front page of my newspaper

today.

People need to know that the military has strong doubts about future prospects.

[cliss]

31. We hung in there for 10 years in VietNam,

so we've got 7 more to go. However, we've already spent more on the Iraq war than VietNam.

I personally believe we will not get out until this country is broke. Until there is no more money to raid....the tax coffers are bone dry...a moth flies out, that's about it.

That's the ONLY thing that will stop them, because they want to rule the world. And they haven't even gotten to bus stop #1 yet.

Amazing :smoke:

[MADem]

43. We haven't even reached the Vietnam style DRAFT LOTTERY point yet

When everyone is glued to the TV waiting for their number to be drawn, then we'll be in the "worst is yet to come" mode.

[getmeouttahere]

52. I so want to go to PEI....

I think they filmed "The Ballad of Jack & Rose" on PEI, is that correct?

[Solly Mack]

11. Recall back in 2003 when reports of attacks claimed were rather small

in numbers? Well, my husband's unit alone averaged 17 attacks a day...and they actually were in a "safe" location. I would tell him what the US media was saying and he would tell me "Uh, no...this is what's really happening"

Point being, out government has lied throughout this mess about the scale of the attacks against American forces....hiding the degree of anger the Iraqis felt at being invaded and occupied.

[katinmn]

13. the advantage of an embedded media is that they can hide

the truth idefinately.

Things must be really BAD for these generals to speak the way they are now.

[Solly Mack]

15. Exactly. So if they're being forth right now, it's gotten

incredibly worse.

[Horse with no Name]

25. My brother said their whole camp was destroyed

while they were in the mess hall by mortar fire and bombs.
At that time, they were living in a huge hole that had been dug out.

[Sabriel]

12. Ya THINK?!!!

I sure feel safer knowing these mega-brains are in charge... able to grasp quickly the nuances of a difficult situation....

[LynnTheDem]

20. Wow...you were able to post such scathing sarcasm and NOT

spontaneously combust???! :wow:

I sit in awe! :D

:hug:

[katinmn]

14. kick!

[LibDemAlways]

17. The DOD trotted out some other

officer this morning and put him on CNN to make the ridiculous pronouncement that "great progress is being made." It came across as a bit of a desperate effort to counter Abizad, who no doubt, received a brutal ass-kicking from Rummy after suggesting that Iraq is a continuing fiasco.

[ClintonTyree]

28. The Generals in Viet Nam always said the same....

"great progress is being made", "the enemy is on the run", "they're demoralized and dwindling in numbers". :eyes:

Spare us, we've heard it all before. Same shit, different war. We're already past the point of diminishing returns. That occurred the day bush started this war.

It is time to bring our soldiers home from Iraq. This neo-con exercise in stupidity has gone on too long, drained too many resources away from our economy and killed, maimed and psychologically ruined too many of America's finest fighting men and women.

We have to start taking this to the streets. I want it to be one long, hot summer for the bush cabal. We need massive marches on Washington, we need to tip the scales toward a more peaceful, civil society.

[MADem]

44. Don't forget "we've turned the corner" and "light at the end of the

..tunnel." That light was the oncoming train, we learned.....

[LynnTheDem]

19. US General just WANTS us to fail!!! For his OWN AGENDA!!! BASTARD

TRAITOR LIBRUL!!!

Heh. :D

PS: TOO LATE. We already failed. Failure happened the day America became "that kind of a country" and did what Hitler did; waged an illegal, immoral and unjust war of aggression.

[wiggs]

21. EVERYONE is at odds with Bush, Rumsfeld and Rice. In the memory hole

we might find Scott Ritters pre-invasion prediction that an invasion would result in 21,000,000 insurgents....and we might remember that the president of Egypt said that an invasion would result in 100 Osama bin Ladens. And Hussein said that America would eventually have to turn tail and run, not being able to stomach the bloodshed.

Most knowledgable people were at odds with Bush et al. You have to look hard now to find the reports, but many, many US diplomats and officials around the world resigned their posts in protest over the invasion.

They were right. What they didn't know, IMO, is that the administration didn't care about the downside, doesn't care about casualties and deaths (especially Iraqis). Chaos, strife, and desperation are part of the equation. WE LET IT HAPPEN. The administration wants destitution and destruction so we can rebuild it. We want civil strife so we can stay there to battle it. We want the power and the money to be in the hands of a few chosen Iraqi's so we can control them too.

WE ALWAYS INTENDED ON STAYING, PUMPING OIL TO FUND EXPENSIVE BASES AND RECONSTRUCTION TO THE BENEFIT OF AMERICAN COMPANIES AND IRAQI OFFICIALS!

This is a tried and true scenario, worked out 50 years ago and used ever since all over the globe. We did not invest 300 billion dollars over there so that Iraqis could vote. This time, however, Iraq has become Brer Fox's tar baby to the neocons...the more we insist on control, the more resistence we are going to get and the bloodier everyone will become. Outcome is uncertain, but it already is a disaster going downhill daily.

[seabeyond]

22. of course it can still fail, clinton, kerry, bush....media

a real duh there.

[JohnyCanuck]

23. I know the General has to be wrong.

Because the Supreme, God anointed Commander, Commander Cuckoo-Bananas, himself said MISSION ACCOMPLISHED ages ago. What would the general know about it? How often does he get to talk to Jesus to get the inside scoop from heaven on the real state of affairs in Iraq? Sheesh, get real folks. This general must be a liberal and therefore quite likely the spawn of Satan attempting to counteract the work of God's anointed one. DON'T LISTEN TO HIM, OR YOU WILL BURN IN A LAKE OF FIRE FOR ETERNITY.

Now don't say you haven't been warned.

[Robworld]

26. He's obviously disgruntled

If he just put on the same Rose colored glasses that the Bush Administration has on, he would have nothing to complain about.

http://www.dumdumgoestothecircus.com /
Website updated

[FrenchieCat]

29. Yes...what's wrong?

This General should be like a rooster crowing about the sunrise....like the rest of this administration!

Problem is, the sunrise talk of Democracy after the "elections" is actually beginning to smell more like a sunset.

Civil War is soon to follow. That General knows it.

[ngant17]

27. Iraq and deja vu a al Vietnam

There are so many parallels with our involvement in the war in SW Asia (Iraq and Afghanistan) and SE Asia (Vietnam) that it is chilling. A phony excuse to invade in 1964 - Gulf of Tonkin incident. WMD for Iraq.

We set up a puppet government in Saigon and that's what we're doing in Baghdad.

We spent 11 years in Nam - 1964 to 1975, so I guess we can plan on being bogged down in Iraq from 2003 to 2014 or something like that.

Vietnam averaged about 5000 KIA/year, it doesn't look like Iraq will get to that, maybe 1000 KIA/year, give or take a few hundred. OTOH there will probably be much more psychologically-damaged persons out of the Iraq campaign and much more disabled vets which will hopelessly definitely overload the VA system in the short-term and longterm future.

There were a lot of profits made from the war contracts from Nam, especially the Bell helicopters which were easy targets in the jungle.

The more things change, the more the remain the same.

[cliss]

32. You are so right.

It's amazing, isn't it? That 30 years was not recent enough to make people remember. Do we need to have war every 10 years to figure it out?

The thing that amazes me is the cost of an undertaking like this. The cost of this war is staggering; it absolutely takes your breath away when you run through the numbers.

And it also amazes me because these guys ran the numbers too, and they figured it was worth it! Unbelievable. They knew how much it was going to cost to pull in the destroyers, the bombs,the equipment, the bullets, the caskets, the air flights to the hospital in Germany.

And they felt it was worth it!! There's an old saying, "war is good for the economy". Where did they ever get that? Stan Goff wrote that the US almost bankrupted itself on VietNam. We were teetering on the edge.

As a result of that little adventure, we went from a net creditor nation to a net debtor nation. Of course now, our economy is on life support.

[NJCher]

36. and did you know....

They've outsourced most of what is required for the war? Yes, I was shocked to see the number of countries that are profiting.


Cher

[Bill from Dover]

38. "and did you know...."

That the aforementioned profitable countries are now showing reluctance to purchasing our t-notes that we use to pay for this idiocy.

[Knight of Ni]

39. What do you expect? Almost all of them weren't there the FIRST TIME!!

If you fail to learn the lessons of history, you will be doomed to repeat them. Most of these bozos skipped out of "class" the first time around.

[ooglymoogly]

33. the sun-el come out tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow,

bet cher bottom dollar, tomorrow, tomorrow. the song condi sang to the generals and they bought it.

[Bill from Dover]

35. Trained cowards

One problem was the disappointing progress in developing Iraqi police units cohesive enough to mount an effective challenge to insurgents and allow American forces to begin stepping back from the fighting.

Rice & Rumsfeld repeatedly said that they had about 140,000 well-trained Iraqis. Joe Biden argued that it was closer to about 8,000 tops.

I will be highly disappointed not to see him shove this little fact up their asses real, real soon.

[tavalon]

37. Why is it lately that so many of these posts

just make me wanna say, "Um, duuuuuhhhhhhh!". Fucking loser morons are running our country.

[0007]

42. Swan Song?

"The officer said much depended on the new government's success in bolstering public confidence among Iraqis. He said recent polls conducted by Baghdad University had shown confidence flagging sharply, to 45 percent, down from an 85 percent rating immediately after the election. "For the insurgency to be successful, people have to believe the government can't survive," he said. "When you're in the middle of a conflict, you're trying to find pillars of strength to lean on." Another problem cited by the senior officer in Baghdad was the new government's ban on raids on mosques, announced on Monday, which the American officer said he expected to be revised after high-level discussions on Wednesday between American commanders and Iraqi officials."

[bornagainhuman]

45. back from the dark side

hello all i am a once republican now libertarian. i joined the navy right out of high school believing all the hype about a righteous war and liberating an oppressed people. we must stop this mad man and seize all these WMD. and i am ashamed to say i bought it all and even voted for this man before realizing that he could have been talking about himself. So I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to everybody. But i have learned the error of my ways and have begun to do something highly discouraged in the Navy and all the military.....think for myself. There is hope for those poor misguided souls trust me i was as die hard right wing as it got, if i can change anybody can.

[roscoeroscoe]

48. well hello! welcome

from your d.u. rep in tikrit! :)
as mentioned earlier, insurgents are indeed forcing innocents to carry out carbomb attacks, they duct tape their hands to the steering wheel and threaten their families...
absolutely dispicable.
well listen bornagainhuman, are you libertarian enough to have read robert heinline? 'starship troopers' or 'moon is a harsh mistress' are classics.

[cliss]

51. Hi, bornagainhuman.

Welcome to the DU:toast: :smoke:

You've come to the right place!

[teryang]

46. More likely that they will succeed?

This is because of the determination of the American forces?

This is what philosophers cause the substitution of will for reason. When reason leds inexorably to one conclusion, failure, it is abandoned. What is substituted is the uncritical will which attempts to affect the empirical reality which it cannot accept.

The so called frank discussion is permeated with political self delusion.

On whose side is the determination of will? On the side of those who allow themselves to be taped to car bombs? Or on the side of those Iraqi police and national guard forces who can't bring themselves to fight for an occupying invader?

One of the most obvious political signs of failure in a civil conflict is when forces of order refuse to fire on their own people.

People always act as individuals. It is not whether the colonial government of Iraq survives, it is whether the people of Iraq can engage in commerce and go about their daily lives.

We have already failed and cannot succeed. This is because imperial aggression and colonialism have already failed as historical forces in the 20th century. What was the fundamental characteristic of this failure of Euro-American dominance? The determination of the people of former colonies to drive out colonial occupiers out NO MATTER WHAT THE COST.

Nothing fails like a military failure.

[Disturbed]

47. The Bush Fascist Regime. has been successful regarding...

Iraq.

Saddam will no longer sell Iraqi oil via the Euro.

A military foothold in the ME.

No countries will be able to buy Iraqi oil that the U.S. disapproves of.

The Multi-Intl. Oil Corps are reaping great profits, esp. Bush Junta fave ally Saudi Dicktatorshit.

[teryang]

54. Point well made

This is a significant network of belligerent corporatist interests who are profiting immensely from this war.

But the costs of the misguided military expedition far outweigh any benefit to the body politic as a whole. Therefore it is destined to fail either the slow military/political death by a thousand cuts or the sudden catastrophic economic failure (which may not even be perceived as related to the war).

The illegitimate clique in power will probably resort to further frauds, military adventures and oppressive legal measures in order to repress the inevitable natural reaction to reject this conflict because it is in reality a cost ineffective failure. The neo-cons believe that perception manipulation is the major index of whether the war (and the economy) is a success or failure. Therefore, this war is a success in the same way that there isn't any inflation or that unemployment is declining. The truth is none of the three is true.

The neo-cons obviously view Israel as a success and a model for conquest that can be exported to other Asian locations. The oil and defense industries have always felt this way. They are forgetting that Israel almost triggered WWIII in the 73 war. They have also changed their view of Israel as a proxy for western imperial power and now confuse it as a model for the organization of our own society as a perpetual national security crisis state.

[cliss]

53. Yes. I think the way this war was initiated,

it just had such a casual feel to it. The tax laws were changed about the same time, which really highlighted the "not me" feeling. Everybody went about their business, maybe some people hung little flags in their office cubes, and that was it.

Stan Goff wrote, "there's no way a 21-year old who has grown up in a soft consumer culture; can fight against a 35-year old mujahedeen who's fighting for his country, his family, his religion.

You're right, "we've already failed and cannot succeed".

Here's what James Howard Kunstler writes in his new book, "The Long Emergency", "The Iraq war is not hard to understand. It wasn't an attempt to steal Iraq's oil. We opened a police station in the Middle East, and Iraq just happened to be the best candidate for it. We desperately wanted the oil supplies to continue coming out of the countries in a reliable way".

Now, I'm wondering about the whole structure of this war. Why is the Pentagon in charge of rebuilding Iraq? What do generals know about human relations, understanding different cultures?

It seems to me that roles have been miscast. We're asking a department of WAR to be in charge of PEACE. To restate your post; we cannot win this.

[Number9Dream]

49. But... but, there were elections in Iraq...

Quick show the public the photos of the blue fingers again!
Part of me would hate to see the draft brought back. I pulled a very low number and the next thing I knew, I was hacking my way through the boonies of S. Vietnam. Also, the rich kids usually avoid combat regardless (just ask yellowstain Dumbya).
However, maybe reinstating the draft might be the only thing to shake all the apathetic sheeple into ending this horrible mistake and bringing our troops home.
...dazed and confused.

[understandinglife]

50. "Clashes Break Out Over U.S. Occupation"

Clashes Break Out Over U.S. Occupation

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 20, 2005
Filed at 9:16 a.m. ET

NAJAF, Iraq (AP) -- Thousands of Shiites, many waving Islam's holy book over their heads, protested the U.S.-led occupation in Iraq on Friday, setting off clashes in at least one southern city as they answered a call by a radical cleric to paint Israeli and American flags on the ground and stomp on them.

Sunni Muslim clerics also delivered fiery sermons in Baghdad and in cities like Ramadi, capital of the volatile Sunni Triangle in western Iraq, where more than 3,000 people protested.

In a separate action, Sunni Muslims began shutting down their mosques to complain about their alleged mistreatment at the hands of the country's majority Shiites -- who they have blamed for kidnapping and killing several of their clerics.

The U.S. military also launched what it said would be an aggressive investigation to discover how pictures of an underwear clad Saddam Hussein wound up on the front page of a British tabloid.

(more at link):
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Iraq.html?

Our illegal occupation spawns only more atrocities and illegalities.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us