George Lucas sold us out just like John Kerry. Lucas is Darth Vader....

[KoKo]

and the sad joke is on us.

I shouldn't have been surprised that Lucas would end his "Star War's Epic" with this piece of boring crap. Because Lucas is tossing "in our face" the shallowness of what our culture has become...when good people turn to the dark side. Maybe that's his brilliance to show us the finality of our shallow trivial, mass produced, empty culture.


I went to see "Revenge" tonight. And at the 8:00 p.m. show there were only about 30 people in the audience. How could this be? Our theater just last week was "pre-selling" tickets in anticipation of a Blockbuster.

We stayed for an hour and forty five minutes....we left before it was finished. I should have known that Lucas is dark because of the way "Amercian Grafitti" (his greatest) ends. And, Lucas put out this "Glorified Video Game" to make some kind of point. Just like John Kerry stood on the Senate floor today and gave a rousing speech about all the Bush lies following Senator Byrd's fascinating history of the Senate "fillibuster" history.

Coming off Byrd and Kerry's magnificent features and then finishing up the night with "Revenge of the Sith." I've seen the "Dark Side."

All of them know we are doomed. We have become the darkside. And there is "no light" to lead us forward coming from our Government or our Media or our Moviemakers.

It's up to "US" to bring the light. They've sold out, given up and become Annikan...going to the Dark Side.

I was so hoping for something special with this movie. Maybe the message was exactly what I got when I left it before the finish. :shrug:

[neuvocat]

1. I would think Lucas' comments about Bush would help

you to enjoy it.

[Arkana]

2. Uh...what?

Lucas has publicly said that the film draws some parallels as to what's happening now.

[Avalux]

3. Sorry you had such a bad day

and just exactly what were you expecting from the movie anyway? It's entertainment, that's all.

[KoKo]

4. No...it's not just "entertainment" with Lucas. Not with this one, the way

it was billed.

But, thanks for your sympathy over my "bad day." :hi:

[DODI]

6. Keep in mind that it had to end that way to set up the "last"

three -- and yes, good does triumph and the Empire is destroyed. This one had to be dark.

[KoKo]

8. Well I got that point but Lucas destroyed his movie before I waited to

see the Empire be destroyed. It was well on it's way when I left. :-(

[Celeborn Skywalker]

5. I don't know

I really liked this movie. I didn't think it was "boring" at all.

[KoKo]

7. Did you see the others? And, do you play alot of video games?

If you saw only one or two of the others in the series and you play video games, you might not have noticed. This movie was made for a different audience, imho. The computer graphics were "flatter" than what you can buy out there today. Compared to the other movies this one was "cluttered" with so much flying crap and flash...that it distracted.

The acting and dialog was terrible compared to the other movies (yeah, I know Lucas hasn't been into alot of dialog in the other Star Wars episodes...but sheesh it was better than this! Who talks to each other the way the characters in "Revenge" do? :shrug:

[Celeborn Skywalker]

18. I saw the others, yes.

I really disliked Episodes 1 and 2 but for some reason I liked this one. I agree that the dialog and acting wasn't great, but it was still a good way to pass a Thursday afternoon (for me anyway).

[renoray]

50. dialog

Who talks to each other the way the characters in "Revenge" do?

A repressed royal woman-child who has no concept of normal human interaction as she was raised in a world of politics with some obvious sexual hang ups and never had a real childhood?

A rebelious, niave and socially retarded man-boy/wizard/warrior/misfit/slave with no sense of self who lives in a strict and repressive order raised during a "more elegant time" and living and fighting during a time of war?

People who lived in outer space and used magic from a long long time ago?

Why would you expect characters like that to talk like people you know? Who expects little green magic men and robot owning space people to talk just like they do?

btw, most reviews praise the last act of the film as redeaming, while pointing out problems early on.

[KoKo]

10. BTW....not dissing you if you liked it...only warning those who might be

looking for a continuence of the others in a more profound way.

Sorry if I sounded like you didn't have a right to your opinion if you liked it or something. :hi: I was just really, really disappointed and saw something much darker in it and made connections of my own.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

20. No need to be sorry.

Different opinions, that all. :hi:

[RBHam]

9. You completely missed it...

An Empire declared where a Republic used to stand, Democracy abandoned as a Dark Leader uses false flag terrorism and the fear it creates to cow all opposition and consolidate his hold on absolute power...

:spank:

[KoKo]

15. I got it RB....but it wasn't presented too well, imho....

I already know all that...I wonder if folks were awake long enough to really have that sink in in a "profound" way if they were Repugs or just innocent viewers. :shrug:

[DerekG]

11. I'm not getting your point...

Episode III--which chronicles the transmogrification of a republic into an empire--was thirty years in the making. Are you upset that Lucas didn't sugar-coat said process?

Personally, I thought ROTS was the best Star Wars film since Empire.

[democracyindanger]

12. Um, comparing the crappiness of a sci-fi blockbuster to an election

is a sure sign of somebody needing a vacation.

[KoKo]

24. I did see "sell out." I saw alot more than just the "dark" that the

reviewers said. I saw Lucas make this movie to show that our "Empire" will end because WE are "shallow." :shrug: And, maybe that's why the acting was terrible, the sets were cluttered like a video game and the relationships lacked depth. Because that really is our whole society to day in the American Empire.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

13. Repeat after me, "It's only a movie, it's only a movie."

[DerekG]

17. Always nice to read a "Last House on the Left" reference

n/t

[Geek_Girl]

14. I just Saw the Movie

And it Totally rocked! Lucas was drawing a very distinct parallel to the Empire and the Current administration. It was so obvious. I'm not sure why you didn't like the film its the best one since Empire.

[KoKo]

21. You thought the dialog was realistic and didn't mind the set clutter?

Yoda was a pale shadow of himself. The graphics were so cluttered, the dialog imbicilic and moronic....Who would talk to each other like that in a romantic relationship? I didnt' connect witht the characters the way I did in Empire...they were lifeless and devoid of personality.

Just my 2 cents...as I say...I was looking for something more profound and it was so flat to me. :shrug:

[Geek_Girl]

26. It's Star Wars Not Steel Magnolias

Remember Star Wars Episode IV. The acting was horrible the characters were 2 dimensional. But the story and effects are what made that movie great. If you want to see good acting and good dialog go see a play

Star Wars is a space opera about the battle between good and evil. In my opinion the movie dished out the star wars goods.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. I think the standards are lower for EP IV cause it was the 70's

Or at least that's how my generation sees it.

[Must_B_Free]

16. I don;t know what fucking movie you saw

but it wasn't Revenge of the Sith...

And I highly doubt that there was only 30 people there...

[KoKo]

22. Believe me.....I saw Revenge of the Sith...and I've been on DU long enough

for folks to know, I'm not a liar. :D But, thanks for that ringing endorsement of my mental ability to know where I am and what I've seen.

On Edit: I've been here on DU as long as your have! 2001! And, I can count.

[onehandle]

23. It's on six screens at our neighborhood megaplex.

All showings were sold out all day including the 10am showings.

Where are you? Branson Missouri?

[KoKo]

25. Raleigh, NC and it's on more than six screens here, but my theater had

no lines with 30 people at 8:00. And, they were "pre-selling" last week when I was there to see something else. Believe me, I was shocked.
This particular theater was closed for awhile but has been reopened for almost a year. I'm in a suburbs with thousands of people. :shrug:

Only telling you what I saw.

[Catholic Sensation]

52. did you go to mission valley or something?

that's the only reason i can think of for there not being many people in the theater.

[KoKo]

56. "Six Forks" which is a really nice theater....

:shrug:

[Must_B_Free]

48. I was banned in 2001 and had to start over then

I was on since at least recount 2000. I was Beware_of_God, and I got banned after 1400 posts for asking if Zionism was real or a conspiracy theory.

[Cleita]

27. The first Star Wars trilogy had Joseph Campbell as

a consultant on the good vs. evil stuff, since he was sort of an expert on mythology. But dear old Joe is dead and I guess he left Lucas hanging on a line with basically a comic book plot and uninspired writing to finish his story.

[KoKo]

59. Ceita, you make interesting point. Campbell might have been a good

influence on Lucas when he was alive, but Lucas lost his "train of thought," or "focus," when Campbell died. And, that's why the acting and dialog seems to have gone astray.

I'm so glad that many DU'ers worked around that and loved the movie as a DISS BIG TIME to BUSH...but, it could have been done bigger, better and with a softer hand with more intelligent dialog, better graphics and a deeper plot.

Still...we have to take the "crumbs" from the "table" these days so whatever folks saw in it that was good...is good.

I just had to trash it because I thought it feel far short of what it should have been. :shrug: (Got a big mouth and am opinionated...what can I say else to defend myself) :D or :-( depending on how one views it.

[JackRiddler]

28. I walked into Blockbuster the other day...

And from where I was, browsing, I couldn't see the screen but I could hear the movie they were playing. There was pounding patriotic music and a couple of fighter pilots were shouting out crisp All-American gung-ho blather to each other and their base and moving in for the kill taking on the flak and such. I didn't recognize it right away and figured it was Top Gun or something and thought, geez, what is this fascist shit?

A couple of moments later I saw the screen. It was Starwars. Oh, sorry, I mean, "Episode IV: A New Hope." Final battle against the Death Star.

This caused me to meditate on how I was in the ground zero demographic for the original "blockbuster" that fucked up movies for all time ever since. Age 12 in 1976. No child my age failed to see it that summer, we were the front line target for one of the most successful propaganda campaigns ever. (Note: propaganda=advertising, no difference.) The films were designed to track our age group, so that the second one was aimed at age 15 and the third at age 18.

Glad to say I missed all three of the recent ones. They look execrable beyond belief. Don't you think it's about time you got over it and found a different source of entertainment?

[Geek_Girl]

29. Lucas did not write Star Wars to be Pro War

But a warning about the fragility of democracy.

<snip>
"Star Wars" director George Lucas says that although he wrote the original film during the Vietnam War, his six-part saga could apply to the war in Iraq.

''In terms of evil, one of the original concepts was how does a democracy turn itself into a dictatorship,'' Lucas told a news conference at Cannes, where his final episode had its world premiere.
</snip>

Full Story

[JackRiddler]

30. Well, that's what he says today...

and besides, an author may intend one thing but end up communicating another. Starwars was straightforward space opera that glorified war as good vs. evil, and reflected a cultural need for simplicity after the "trauma" of Vietnam. Too bad not everyone in this country wanted to understand the real trauma was what the Vietnamese had suffered.

Anyways.

[Geek_Girl]

32. I think you should see the Movie

Since Star Wars is basically 6 Parts the final Film in my opinion capacitate the Main Theme/Moral.

The Jedi and the Republic are basically deceived by the Sith Lord into War. The Jedi pay a heavy price for there naivety, they die and there chosen one gets seduced to the dark side out of fear.

In Film School they teach you that the morale of the story is summed up in the final act. In my opinion this was the Final Act since it was the Final film so basically the entire Star Wars Saga Moral/Theme is about the fragility of democracy and how fear can lead to evil which is much more relevant than a black hat white hat battle vs good and evil.

[DerekG]

42. One could just as well levy the same charge upon your avatar

Shakespeare did, after all, pen a rather timeless piece of propaganda--Henry V (yes, there is nuance in Act I, but then, there is nuance in the Star Wars universe as well).

P.S. No, I am not suggesting Lucas is comparable to the Bard in any way.

[Freddie Stubbs]

33. Actually, Star Wars didn't come out until 1977

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/

May the Force be with you.

[JackRiddler]

39. yeah

I realized after I wrote that.

Actually, I was not 12 yrs. old until 1977, so it all fits anyway.

Let's face it, Starwars was a disaster for serious Hollywood film-making, mainly for implanting the "blockbuster" model (releases in 1500 theaters at once, etc.) but also for being such a success with its black-and-white simplicity. Just compare the films of the 10 years before it to the 30 years since.

[Hardrada]

51. I remember a review of the 1977 Star Wars in an SF magazine

at the time and it pointed out that it was retro 1930's type SF (which was not good) and that at the end there was a kind of fascist medal awards ceremony.(also not good). I think there was also some puzzlement at the prominent presence of a princess in an supposed republic. SF has not been helped by this sort of cinema and it is not that cinema can't deal with more sophisticated SF, e.g. Solaris or Lathe of Heaven. It is just the old lowest common denominator problem again. Heinlein's militarist space cadet stuff was filmed. Pohl/Kornbluth corporate critiques in futuristic guise were not.

[JackRiddler]

54. right, I forgot about the medal ceremony...

The set and music came straight from Nuremberg! Luke's the Beach Boy as filmed by Leni Riefenstahl.

An author's intent in a big-budget film and what actually comes out are two different things, whether he realizes it or not. No one can control a movie like they can control a novel, what appears on screen and how it is received is often completely different from anyone's intent. A big film more often reflects a cultural moment than the screenplay writer's hopes.

That may explain why so many movies nominally meant to be antiwar on the surface are in their subtext and cultural totality glorifications of either war itself or of the Noble Homecountry (see Platoon for a good example). It's not even funny.

Whatever Lucas may have intended, and despite the Republic vs. Empire plot, Starwars was very much a product of its time, full of fascist overtones and a yearning for the simple life that prefigured the arrival of Reagan's America.

As an added disaster for film art generally, it also perfected and industrialized the "blockbuster" model that has dominated studio production ever since.

(Ironically, the pioneering moment came a couple of years earlier with a great movie, The Godfather, the producers of which shocked the industry by opening in--gasp!--something like 300 theaters simultaneously nationwide. Which nowadays is peanuts, a Will Ferrell vehicle doubles that.)

[MotorCityMan]

55. Actually, I think it was "Jaws" that really changed things

I was 12 in '76, which I believe was when "Jaws" came out. That one started the whole summer blockbuster/must-see/billion dollar money makers.

For the record, I have seen all the Star Wars movies. I thought Lucas did a good job with RotS.

[R. A. Fuqua]

31. thanks for the review--

I do plan on seeing it, but I intended to wait a while (it doesn't sound good enough to wait in line for tickets).

I am very curious about the political implications--because I know that the "freeper" types are upset by the movie as well--so I was hoping that the movie would present more OUR point of view.

that was probably an outlandish hope.

I have heard Lucas's father speak--I went to UC Berkely--and was exposed to a wide variety of interesting and diverse speakers in their series that brings people to speak on campus. Anyway, L's father is definitely a "freeper" he talked about what the Reagan Revolution meant to him--etc etc---he was a HUGE fan of Reagan. I did not hold that against the son--because who knows if he agrees with his father or not? And most Hollywood types are Democrats. But, perhaps Lucas is not. Does anyone know his political affilation for sure?

[KoKo]

34. I don't know Lucas's politics but I've read that he was telling a story

about war and good and evil and trying to do it in the traditions of Mythic tales that span the ages. The interview I read he gave about "Sith" was that he felt every generation needed to re-learn certain truths that are common to us all. (I'm paraphrasing 'cause it's late and I don't have energy to Google and link)

I don't want to turn anyone off going to see it, but I was surprised at the poor quality of acting, lack of depth in the characters and the "computer generated clutter" of the settings.

I loved Empire because of it's simplicity. The dialog wasn't great in that one, but there was humor and it did tell a story. Darth Vader and the story of the turn to the "dark side" was interesting to me and millions of others who enjoy fable and are interested in why and how people can change. But, I think the sequels got a little commercialized as they went on. I expected more from this one because it's the final episode and was so hyped as being relevant to us Democrats that I was looking for something I didn't find there. What I found was so shallow and badly done that I thought maybe he was making a point that "WE" are all shallow and that's why I said "sell out" and compared it to John Kerry (being a metaphor for all our Democrats who just can't seem to get it together and come out swinging against the Repugs). I remember Lucas's "American Graffiti" which is a classic for it's time. But, that movie ended very darkly and I think Lucas's view is perhaps at the end of the Star Wars series much darker than when he did Empire which was innocent fun with a message.

The movie depressed me because I thought he missed a chance to do something so much better. I got many folks here angry because I read more into it than others saw. :shrug:

[R. A. Fuqua]

43. hey--it is art--

you interpret it how YOU see it.

I enjoyed your review---and will probably catch it in a month or two at a matinee.

[kiki]

36. Can't remember who said it...

...but somebody summed it up perfectly when they referred to the original three Star Wars movies as "accidental masterpieces". You can't recreate that naive charm - and the harder you try, the worse you'll fail.

We live in an age where we're told, over and over, that a movie is a "classic" before it's even been released. I'm sorry, but no. We, the viewers, will tell you, the studios, if a film is a classic or not - not the other way round.

[Roxy66]

37. I just saw it with my son...and we both loved it. It's fun entertainment!

[LightningFlash]

38. I saw the entire movie start to finish....

My conclusions came out just the opposite.

I saw the best acting I have ever seen in a star wars film- Ever.

I saw acting so convincing I felt like the world could not be denied. I felt heavy, I felt terrified......I felt agnostic, happy, sad......

I felt this movie was better...Much much better than every Star Wars film, and their wooden actors.....

I identified well with the lead character...I saw the dark side overtake the once well driven republic.

I'm disgusted to say that it was inevitable. The trade federation and the corporate guilds of greed had corrupted the republic beyond saving, Palpatine, a Sith Lord knew this from the start. He was destined to reforge the galaxy into an Empire, one that would destroy the Seperatists and bring in authortarian rule.

It was dark, it was decadent, it mirrors our current culture today. But I also saw something NO STARS WARS FILM has ever shown me.....And I saw it with open eyes....

I saw hope. I saw that a fallen republic can be brought back to justice, even when crossing over to the dark side. I saw that there is enough good in all of us that we can bring back order and restore democracy.

I saw that the Jedi Knights had become arrogant, fallen to paths of self-righteousness and obsession as well. Protectors in our government have become arrogant as well, many of them have become complacent too.

But there is hope, because the real Jedi re-emerge and will smite down tyranny until it is no longer. I listened and watched the long debate on the fillibusters in the Senate, as everyone did after seeing the movie. I see that we can break this and that the fillibuster will be saved.

I see that the true order of Jedi and their followers are the people and that we people, in all our positions must dedicate our energy to bringing back democracy.

I can see it, I can feel it in the air. Can you see it? Are you up to the task? That's the last open resolve there is. I felt depressed and sad the first time watching everything fall at one time and then hearing the debates.

I now feel the opposite, that this tyranny and its escalated forces can end and can be stopped now once and for all. By fighting and using our energy to project democracy the forces of the shadow will be struck back and I know they will fall. I heard John Kerry speak and I knew that this is but just begun.

[KoKo]

40. Thanks for your post and what the film meant to you. Kerry gave a great

speech today...said it all didn't he? Byrd's history of the Senate and fillibuster was good too. :hi: We have to hope..

[LightningFlash]

41. There is hope...

And where there is hope, there is truth that must be set free.

:toast:

[lwin]

44. So long and thanks for all the fish...

While we're on the subject of Sci-Fi movies and their political implications, did anyone see Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy?

I think Sam Rockwell's portrayal of the Intergalatic President being a witless moron was a direct parody of the Chimp. Anyone else pick that up?

[Melodybe]

45. Saw it, loved it, Rockwell said tht Zaphod was a combo of Bush and Clinton

[lwin]

47. Oh really? That's too funny...he sure nailed it!

[booley]

46. what did you expect?

What you were expecting I am not sure.

You seem to be shocked and disapointed that anakin became Darth Vader. but that's was supposed to happen.

amd obviously the movie would end on a dark note..since by episode three the Republic was supposed to have fallen, the jedi destroyed, Anakin goes over to the dark side and Empire. This was al planned out long before Shrub made an appearence.

We could hardly not have this or else the episodes that come after 9which were made before) wouldn't make any sense.

it's a movie, get over it.

And for the record, i liked it.

[fujiyama]

49. I respectfully disagree

I enjoyed this film...

Oh, I'll admit, the dialogue was pretty ridiculous at times (I almost felt bad for Natalie Portman reciting the lines she was given), but overall the script wasn't nearly as disasterous as the other two prequels.

In fact, this one actually had a decent line or two (the very Bush-like lines of "You're either with me or you're my enemy" understandably pisses off the right, and I also liked the "This is how liberty dies - with thunderous applause").

I don't really see how much more overt politically this could have been. It is very obvious where Lucas's politics lie.

Now, if you believe the film wasn't good, that's a different matter. Everyone has different tastes, but I don't see this film in particular symbolizing the banality of pop culture (there have been many more worse films in recent years). As sad as it may be, imo this has been one of pop culture's recent higher points. It is a fairly well done allegory for recent times.

I also thought it tied the two trilogies together pretty well in the end (somethin missing from the other two prequels).

[The Minus World]

53. You May Have Derailed.

While I agree that modern American culture needs a severe priority readjustment, and that we are barreling towards dereliction at an alarming rate, a Star Wars movie - despite the broad parallels - seems a peculiar source for deep socio-political insight.

Pardon my criticism, as I only mean it to be constructive - but it seems to me that you have temporarily abandoned rationality for critical partisan thought.

A basic cost-benefit analysis would suggest that, were Lucas truly interested in making a profoundly modern political statement, he would have done as much in a more accessible way than deliberately sabotaging his own film with the shallow canon of contemporary special effects.

[KoKo]

57. an interesting perspective...thanks for that...Don't agree but am thinking

about what you say in case I overlooked something that might be "bias" on my part. :hi:

[steve2470]

58. I loved it. So sorry it didn't touch you nt