This disturbing new flood of "Baby Chicken-hawks"

[tjwash]

You see them on conservative message boards everywhere. Talking big, and emulating their heroes like Rush Limbaugh - the same simpering coward whose family doctor got him a 4F deferment for a boil on his bum so he didn’t have to fight and die in a war he had no problem having other individuals fight. They are kids out of high school between the ages of 18-27 who love to "support the troops," denigrating and chastising all who don't share their raw unfettered enthusiasm. Yet these same spoiled brats will not lift a finger to support the troops in the way it really counts. When it comes to putting their money where their collective mouths are, they all of a sudden are "too important to serve our country." If a draft ever actually comes, the day after it is initiated, all these big talkers will be hiding, whimpering, under their beds.

As a veteran, let me tell you,that's not support, that's spitting in the faces of all of us that actually served our country.

The huge problem with these baby chicken-hawks, is they are a level removed from the political angst involved in everyone having the chance of losing a loved one. Until something happens to change that The U.S. will always go to war, The U.S. will always start wars, and people of this ilk will even talk of pre-emptive nuclear strikes.

Of course, the problem with a draft coming around, means that they will only start with the poor, and those with little means. The rich and privileged, as always, will find a way to get their children out of it.

I always thought that Switzerland has always had a good idea by making it mandatory for everyone regardless of social status, to serve in the military after turning 18. If nothing else, it would get these little free-loaders out of their mom and dad's house for a couple of years.

Now, I will post this, and watch it sink like a rock.

[IrateCitizen]

1. KICK!

I'll push it back up for ya!

:kick:

[tjwash]

2. Cool, thanks!!

[umtalal]

3. kick

[leftofthedial]

4. I can't think of a single good thing about repukes

young or old

not one thing

[SammyWinstonJack]

80. I second that! n/t

[Submariner]

5. They want to be yellow-belly cowards like there White House heroes

[Coexist]

6. no it won't - you are right

If all the youth of this country were forced to serve, we would deliberate much more before dispatching our men and women overseas, because there would be children of Presidents, Congressman and Senators among the ranks.

Granted, most would probably have cushy desk jobs, but their constituency would be more personally invested in the decisions their leadership makes about military action.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. Yep

You got it right. Those who love to talk about war etc. the loudest and pump it up will never fight it. I think it's disgusting and a disgrace.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

7. i feel like they think they are being rebellious

like they are sticking their tongue out at rationality and common sense.

with those that i have delt with personally, it seems like they are just being hard headed and difficult just becuase they enjoy being hard headed and difficult.

they don't necessarily support what is going on with our armed forces, they just want to be on the opposite side of sound judgement and go "nyah nyah, you can't make me be rational".

it is really bizarre.

and no i don't mean that all of shrub's supporters seem this way, some our ill informed, some are just belligerent, but i think the younger ones who should know better are just riding this thing because they think they are being difficult and therefore rebellious "know-it-alls".

[FreedomAngel82]

39. That's true too

I think that's true too. They want to be like Bushie and be all powerful and think he's some kind of "tough" guy even though he's never fought in a battle himself and had his rich poppy get him out of it. All they like is being on the popular side and "winning."

[Nite Owl]

8. Love that 'Baby Chicken-hawks'

name. That should be repeated and catch on. I wish we had had an ad during the '04 campaign calling them all out for the cowards they really are. This puts them on the defensive.

Some sort of service should be required for all, whether it's somethng like Americorps, the Peacc Corps or the military. It would be a good thing for young people to do some sort of service and broaden their minds and hearts before entering a career.

[tjwash]

9. I know, ANYTHING to get them into the world.

Another problem, is they have no clue that the world continues past their state line. If more of them knew that, their attitudes would change.

[Nite Owl]

27. State line

more like the local mall! lol

But really even if it were just service to the community it would widen their perspective.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. I don't think that's fair

Not everybody is able for a job like that. I know I'm not. But I'd never talk like the chickenhawk's and pump up war because I don't believe in doing that.

[tjwash]

50. I'm not talking about people that are unable to serve for a legitimate...

...reason. I am talking about perfectly able bodied and minded people that back this current war, talk of "nuking all the towelheads", yet will not join up themselves.

I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else that is legitimately unable to join. :hi:

[Midlodemocrat]

10. What a great post.

I had an encounter with a friend of mine, who, unfortunately, is a rethug, we just don't discuss politics, about the military. She kept saying "if there wasn't a war, it would be a great thing for ***, (her eldest)". I went postal. I said, "so it is okay for other people's kids to die, but not yours? Do you realize the hypocrisy of that? If you voted for this POS than at least have the courage of your convictions and allow your son to enlist".

Conversation took a downward spiral after that.

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. The chicken hawk / neo nazi position is taken by those sickos because

it's the position of hate and government sponsored murder. Skinhead and neo nazi types get a kick from this.

[dbeach]

14. Flag salute ??

at Magna school?

What is dat bout??

[The_Casual_Observer]

37. Flag salute in 1929.

[dbeach]

12. Chickenhawks run the world...

many of my family and friends are combat Veterans

These coward chikenhawks send us to die while they plot ways to overthrow govts and grow rich

Most of the US Congress and every govt is made up of
non Veterans...Maybe a few more Vets in office would bring some sensible peace planning in stead of the neo-con bushevik pentagon war mongers planners

Col. David Hackworth {RIP} said on CNN before bush jrs "bloody oiley" wars began..that most combat Vets that he knows {and he knew thousands} WERE AGAINST the Iraq invasion

THANX for post

GWOT is a wall st. bonanza..and pay off to bush supporters
China and Russia are not our friends..BUT neither is the current US govt.

[teenagebambam]

13. I work at the Nat'l Cathedral in DC...

...and interact with the child choristers, who are enrolled at the National Cathedral (Private) school. A few of them, some as young as fourth grade, continually spit Repug talking points that they bring from home. It's especially delightful to watch during sermons, as the Cathedral clergy are very progressive, and sermons often include pleas for ecumenicalism or equality for homosexuals, that sort of thing. During the election there was a little clique calling themselves "Pre-Publicans", and they wore little placards they had made that said "Pre-Pubs for G-Dubs". They are vile little creatures.

[tjwash]

18. That's a good point...

...the neo-con philosophy is, after all, best suited to a child-like mentality.

I do have a confession to make. When I was a kid, I actually read "Atlas Shrugged." All of a sudden I changed---The government was all bad, all that mattered was the individual’s right to market what they pleased at any price they wished and to make as much money as possible without any government interference.

Nothing else mattered but capitalism. The political parties were all the same, the existing ideologies were no different from one another. Everyone was beneath me, and I had a struggle to have everyone see this new truth that I had digested.

I outgrew that as I ventured out into the world, and saw that their were actually other people, with differing view points and lives.

Unfortunately, many neo-cons have never outgrown that phase of their adolescence.

[Ian David]

25. Isn't there like a Juniour and pre-junior ROTC that they can join? n/t

[tjwash]

45. Yes. There are also the Sea Cadets.

Ironically, the kids involved in this at schools are poked fun at as geeks by these same people.

[faithnotgreed]

41. hi teenagebambam - thats the kind of story that makes you

just wonder (again) what is going on with people
maybe their parents are among those reconsidering their blind allegiance - we can hope anyway

what do you do at the cathedral if i may ask
i live in adams morgan and am always glad to see other dcers

[wicket]

15. Print out copies of military enlistement forms for 'em

:evilgrin:

On edit, here is the enlistment form:

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/pdf/enlistment.pdf

[demnan]

16. This is an excellent post

I imagine things will change when/if there is a draft. This should wake young people up when they actually face going over there.

[MARALE]

17. As a veteran,

I will kick it for you. I did not see any war, but think that they don't know the terrible parts of war. My uncle saw Viet Nam and will not talk about his time there.

[Javaman]

26. Had a great uncle, when I was a kid, that was in WWI...

never ever talked about it.

Wars don't change.

I had family in all of our US wars and the one thing they beat into me, avoid it if you can.

[Gold Metal Flake]

19. Where are the Calvin Pissing on Chickenhawks stickers?

Seems like a great one. Who is gonna give you BS for that?

Any stickers guys wanna make some?

[dbeach]

20. neo-con students at University Chicago

baby chikenhawks who grow up to be FAT CAT RAT chikenhawks..have connections to Strauss and his winner take all philosophy


I CALL IT TREASON! Check out the names..



http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=14631

"Neo-Cons, Fundies, Feddies, and Con-Artists

By Francis A. Boyle

September 18, 2003: It is now a matter of public record that immediately after the terrible tragedy of 11 September 2001, U.S. Secretary of War Donald Rumsfeld and his pro-Israeli "Neoconservative" Deputy Paul Wolfowitz began to plot, plan, scheme and conspire to wage a war of aggression against Iraq by manipulating the tragic events of September 11th in order to provide a pretext for doing so.(1) Of course Iraq had nothing at all to do with September 11th or supporting Al-Qaeda. But that made no difference to Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, their Undersecretary of War Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of State John Bolton, and the numerous other pro-Israeli Neo-Cons inhabiting the Bush Jr. administration.

These pro-Israeli Neo-Cons had been schooled in the Machiavellian/Nietzschean theories of Professor Leo Strauss who taught political philosophy at the University of Chicago in its Department of Political Science. The best exposé of Strauss's pernicious theories on law, politics, government, for elitism, and against democracy can be found in two scholarly books by the Canadian Professor of Political Philosophy Shadia B. Drury.(2) I entered the University of Chicago in September of 1968 shortly after Strauss had retired. But I was trained in Chicago's Political Science Department by Strauss's foremost protégé, co-author, and later literary executor Joseph Cropsey. Based upon my personal experience as an alumnus of Chicago's Political Science Department (A.B., 1971, in Political Science), I concur completely with Professor Drury's devastating critique of Strauss. I also agree with her penetrating analysis of the degradation of the American political process that has been inflicted by Chicago's Straussian Neo-Con cabal. (3)

The University of Chicago routinely trained me and innumerable other students to become ruthless and unprincipled Machiavellians. That is precisely why so many neophyte Neo-Con students gravitated towards the University of Chicago or towards Chicago Alumni at other universities. Years later, the University of Chicago became the "brains" behind the Bush Jr. Empire and his Ashcroft Police State. Attorney General John Ashcroft received his law degree from the University of Chicago in 1967. Many of his lawyers at the Bush Jr. Department of Injustice are members of the right-wing, racist, bigoted, reactionary, and totalitarian Federalist Society (aka "Feddies"), (4) which originated in part at the University of Chicago. Feddies wrote the USA Patriot Act (USAPA) I and the draft for USAPA II, which constitute the blueprint for establishing an American Police State. (5) Meanwhile, the Department of Injustice's own F.B.I. is still covering up the U.S. governmental origins of the post 11 September 2001 anthrax attack on Washington D.C. that enabled Ashcroft and his Feddies to stampede the U.S. Congress into passing USAPA I into law. (6) "

[tjwash]

21. Thank you to those that nominated this.

I was actually just blowing off a little steam, after reading some of the op-eds in the paper this morning. I feel flattered that people here consider this a "greatest" type post!

And don't worry, I have written an alternative view to my local Paper already. They have already published several of my letters in the past. It is in the same vein as this post is.

Again...thanks all!!

[sinkingfeeling]

22. Yes, and I'd bet they had moms and dads who wrote LTTEs to

newspapers about how offended they were that the paper printed a picture of a dead Iraqi or a horribly injured soldier! And heavens forbid, that awful violent movie, "Saving Private Ryan" be shown on TV.

I truly believe that the generation you are talking about and those baby chicken hawks are the way they are for several reasons:

1. Protected from the reality of war and therefore are incapable of empathy. I've asked Repubs how they would react if living in Baghdad with sewage running in the streets, no employment, bombed out buildings and rubble, little to no clean water or electricity.

2. It's all a game. Grew up with violent video games, where you get 10,000 points for blowing up other human beings.

3. American glorification of violence and the 'shock and awe' of our mighty weapons! The country has grown more and more accepting of the power of our military and some worship the 'only remaining superpower' status.


Edited for spelling

[Ian David]

23. My grandfather had diabetes and still found a way to serve

He enlisted and served state-side running a motor pool and working in a facility to re-rehabilitate blinded soldiers.

I just got his dog-tags and honorable discharge card sent to me a few days ago.

Those who say they "can't serve" probably aren't "trying" very hard.

[nashville_brook]

24. NPR-On Point last night -- recruiters agree: "militarize our culture"

it was jaw-dropping. i took a break from aar and turned on public radio to take a break from hearing commercials. hats off to tom ashbrook for really getting OUT THERE with provocative questions!

http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2005/05/20050519_a_main.asp

guests included:
·Damien Cave, New York Times reporter
· Maj. Gen. Michael Rochelle, chief of the U.S. Army Recruiting Command in Fort Knox, Kentucky
·David Segal, sociology professor and director of the Center for Research on Military Organization at the University of Maryland
·Col. David Slotwinski, retired chief operating officer of the U.S. Army Recruiting Command.

what this retired military recruiter called for was a "cultural militarization" -- he called for images of the sexiness of soldiers, the romance of war -- all the old WWII War Bonds stuff.

these people really believe the country exists to support the military and not the other way around. thing is, when you take that metaphor ALL THE WAY -- you find (they found) that a when citizenry that does not support the war, the war needs to be re-examined.

it was fascinating, but i bet we see much more creepy cultural militarism before we see the Bushes pull out of their PNAC fantasy.

[ananda]

28. mandatory for everyone, hmm..

Hmm, if military service were mandatory for everyone, I'll bet that there wouldn't be any unnecessary wars.

Sue

[Greenbeard]

33. indeed

people might actually stop and reflect a bit about the justification for a war before deciding to send themselves and their children off to die

interesting idea

[tjwash]

43. That's what the Swiss do, and they have not been in a war in how long?

nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. GREAT post and I couldn't agree more.

I'm waiting for the day for a freeper to make a snide remark about my bumper sticker, "Support Bush? ENLIST NOW!" and they will be asked why they are standing there in front of me and not fighting their beloved war. I just DARE one of them to say something to me. :grr:

Thanks for the post, it's a good one. :hi:

[DemBeans]

30. my son confronts them daily

He's a junior in a red state university, and comes across quite a few of these cowardly college Republicans. He has no problem telling them that if they support the war, they should be willing to fight it, and that usually shuts them up. There's just no reasonable comeback to it, and he considers it good clean fun to rub their noses in their own cowardice. He's a good kid :)

[understandinglife]

31. Those 'baby chicken-hawks' will likely remain well-insulated ....

... from reality and the draft.

Great post; thank you.

Conscription is soon, imo.

I predict selective conscription and not a 'lottery.'

I think they will have ample mechanisms to insulate the rich and the 'fristian faithful' from conscription without resorting to 'college deferment, professional school deferment' mechanisms.

I suspect they will go after the unemployed who have at least a high school degree, first. They will also go after folk with a variety of skills - construction, medicine, computing/communications.

I also think it quite likely that individuals identified as being in 'the opposition' and individuals who have been identified as 'gay, transgender, pagan, non-fristian religious, ........' are likely to be selectively conscripted.

Get used to it -- "America" has ceased and Bu$h's neoconster regime has absolutely nothing restraining them from conscripting any person based on whatever parameter(s) they decide to use.

A primer on when "America" ceased can be found here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3688434

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - Be it MNA Day 3 or 8 or 15 or .... the day will come when 10s of millions of Americans and others stop their typical activities for 24 hours and urge 10 times that many to join should another MNA Day be required. On that glorious day what we once called "America" will emerge.

[tjwash]

51. First the poor, then up the economic ladder...

...until it eventually reaches the upper classes, and then all of a sudden, they will find a diplomatic solution.

It's been that way since Ancient Egypt and Rome. It's the nature of the beast.

[Minnesota_Lib]

32. What sickens me is that many of these dimwits...

...treat this war as if it were some kind of sporting event. I remember being appalled during the first days of the invasion when visiting certain websites. The boards were full of these chickenhawks bastardizing Todd Beamer’s courageous final words from 9/11 (“Let’s roll!”) into some kind of sick cheerleading chant as they sat there safely on the sidelines, vicariously strutting as if they were active members of the “winning team”—never ever mind that thousands of soldiers and tenfold as many innocent civilians were about to meet grizzly deaths for these sick fucks’ entertainment.

For them--those freaking chickhawks that have no intention of serving themselves--this is just another spectator sport.

It still disgusts me to think about it….

[Lannes]

34. I cant throw stones

For a couple of years in high school I was a Reagan supporter.We had gotten through the Carter years,the Iran hostage crisis,a terrible economy,and the country overall not feeling good about itself.The cold war was still hot and Reagan at least offered hope,eventually that changed for me when his policies started to show their ugly face.

Kids in high school or younger are still forming their opinions so its better to ask them questions then to dictate the answers.Most of the college republicans chickenhawks should know better because they are more involved in on campus politics and have been exposed to alot more information about what is going on.

[bullwinkle428]

35. These little pricks are everywhere -

I remember being disgusted seeing one of them who was obviously driving back from a * campaign appearance in town last summer. A smarmy looking punk driving Daddy's Lincoln Navigator adorned with American flags and "KERRY SUCKS" written on the side windows. Nice touch, denigrating a guy who's forgotten more about being in combat than this brat could ever possibly know. I'm sure the idea of him receiving a draft notice would make curl up in the fetal position and start crying his eyes out... :evilgrin:

[Zorra]

36. These wussy Chicken Hawklets are even bigger hypocrites

than closeted gay republican politicians that rant against gays and promote anti-gay policies.

The hawklets put forth pathetic, child-like irrational arguments for why they don't join the military for the cause they pretend to believe in. The truth is they are yellow-bellied chikenshit cowards hiding under their mama's skirt.

They make me :puke:

[hector459]

42. Please pass this on to the "handbill" link. I think they can use it.

http://www.justicefornone.com/handbills/index.htm

[dbt]

44. No, this ain't gonna sink.

Thank you for your service (and a GREAT post), tjwash!

[Toots]

46. The rich and privileged will always get out of fighting but it isn't them

that actually have the major clout in this situation. It is the Middle class that will start the screeching. As soon as little GOP Soccer Mom has her little Johnnie called up for war you can bet her Representative will hear about it. The draft will end most wars. All probably except in case of Direct Attack by a foreign Nation. I am in favor of a draft for all sexes to perform two years of duty for your country in some manner not necessarily military. Maybe hospital work or cleaning highways or fixing infrastructure. Just in helping humanity but if the time ever came where we really had to defend ourselves the force would be there.

[tjwash]

47. I'm all for that too. Unfortunately, can't you hear the cries of...

..."SOCIALISM!" from here if an idea like that was even proposed? Hell even the idea of it has freepers in an uproar. How dare people volunteer to help anyone but their own selfish asses out.

[mmonk]

48. You pretty much nailed them

[Balbus]

49. Mandatory military service...

Always seemed appealing to me. If anything, it gives immature kids fresh out of high-school (not saying all are immature, but most are) a chance to grow up a little in a somewhat stable environment before making career/life making decisions.

[Nickster]

52. Military Service worked for me!

[tjwash]

56. Me too. I joined 4 days out of high school.

It got me out of the house, got to see a little of the world and I learned a trade while I was in.

Wouldn't do it as a career, but I'm glad I at least did it.

[Nickster]

58. Got ya beat, I joined up when I was a junior on the split option plan

What a great way to spend a summer vacation! LOL.

[bunny planet]

53. Kick and nominated.

:kick:

[spanone]

54. PlayStation Warriors.....they should see dead soldiers......

or volunteer their own asses.

[tjwash]

55. Exactly. I grew up a hell of a lot...

...when I had to help pull a dead body out of a crashed fighter jet for the first time.

[acmejack]

60. great post TJ

You're right, there is something about seeing your best friend bagged that brings it home. I can't understand for life of me, these same people are all for cutting the VA's funding at the same time as they proudly proclaim their support for the troops and slap those shitty little yellow magnets from China on their gas guzzlers. I guess they think it is all just like tv where the hero takes a round & is miraculously just fine the next week.

Sorry, I get too emotional about this topic, I start thinking about that black wall with so many names. I apologize for the incoherence.

[Pinboy]

57. I'm afraid...

...that in a draft that includes social service alternatives, it will be the chickenhawks filling up all the Peace Corps slots . . .

[sinkingfeeling]

59. That still wouldn't be all bad...at least they'd learn that there is a

whole world out there.

[CitySky]

62. ok,

as long as we can DQ them from the "peace" exemption the first time they throw a punch in a barroom brawl, or are caught being abusive to someone weaker than themselves...

[Ariana Celeste]

61. My take on it- because I'm that age,

and I know some of these people you are talking about....

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that as long as you are loud and proud and "support" the troops you will have other loud and proud people who "support" the troops hootin and hollerin *with* you. It's about groupthink. Couple that with the fact a lot of these kids won't do *any* research on their own, so whatever they hear on the radio, FOX, their parents, and other "supporters" is what will form their opinion- thinking is not necessary.

It's disgusting. So, to add some more to it. Consider the fact that schools simply refuse to teach about all of the attacks that *we* make on the ME and other countries. Most people my age have *no* idea that we have been dropping bombs on the ME for very long time. Most of them don't realize that WE placed Saddam in power. SO as far as they know, th ME really does hate us for our freedoms. They are uninformed, ignorant, and taking the easy way out. Unfortunately, that's the majority of average Americans.

Fortunately, though, there are also a lot of kids my age that are informed, and do care, and research the issues and form our own opinion. And it disgusts all of us to see other people so ignorant and proud of it.

[tjwash]

64. kick

[Kurovski]

63. Thank you for your service.

:patriot:

[ComerPerro]

65. I would have approved of that during the Clinton administration

But I just do not trust Bush. At all. For anything.

[dbt]

66. Kick!

[bvar22]

67. LTTE today's Minneapolis Star Tribune

Support is enough

As a young Republican who has a bumper sticker indicating support for President Bush and his policies but is not lining up at military recruiting offices, I feel compelled to respond to a May 19 letter.

Supporting a policy does not mean one has to become directly involved. A heterosexual who supports gay marriage would not marry someone of the same sex just because he or she supports gay marriage.

The same holds true for those who support the war: Just because one supports the troops does not mean he or she has to enlist.

Sarah Kirby, Bloomington (Minnesota--- A Minneapolis Red suburb)


http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5413359.html

Entitlement anyone??
I support the war, but I'm not going to get all dirty and bloody. Thats for other people. I'll stay home and invest my upper middle class allowance in the armaments industry like my daddy.

[tjwash]

70. Isn't cowardice nice? She probably got that from listening to Hannity.

He's another weak kneed chicken-hawk SOB coward, and someone I would personally love five minutes with alone in a locked room.

[Lab2112]

79. RE: LTTE today's Minneapolis Star Tribune

Supporting a policy does not mean one has to become directly involved. A heterosexual who supports gay marriage would not marry someone of the same sex just because he or she supports gay marriage.

The same holds true for those who support the war: Just because one supports the troops does not mean he or she has to enlist.

<...>

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5413359.html

That person made an apples and oranges comparison.

It's true that a heterosexual who supports gay marriage wouldn't marry a homosexual. That's because if they did, they would no longer be heterosexual (if they were to begin with).

A better example would be to point out that one doesn't need to be black or latino to support black and latino issues. That's a given.

However, neither of these examples are comparable with giving service to one's country. This is not about supporting a group that is different than you but are sympathetic to. People in the military are not set apart by sexual preference of ethnic makeup; they are people from every walk of life, no different except for the fact they can be authorized to kill when ordered (or be killed, for that matter). With recruitment levels plummeting, enlisting is precisely what a war supporter should be doing to show the courage of their convictions. Actions speak louder than words.

Only to a chickenhawk would the idea of supporting the troops and actually enlisting be seen as being mutually exclusive things. How convenient.

LAB

[BamaGirl]

68. I agree with you

When I have to deal with these ppl, I tell them to stfu. I was in the Army. Most of them weren't. I have zero patience for them. They are not personally involved. The war has no bearing on their lives. I'd like to see a draft frankly. Most of the ones I know do not have the financial resources to get out of it. If the entire middle class had to suddenly face the draft of their sons, then I do believe we would have a whole new dialogue regarding the legality of the war in this country.

[GoneOffShore]

69. I'll help you keep this kicked

I was a CO during Vietnam, but I never had a problem with the guys who went. I had a problem with our CIC and the policies that put us there (read this weeks New Yorker for an interesting take on what was going on while we were there. Pham Xuan An was both a trusted journalist for Time and a North Vietnamese spy).
I was out as a CO, but there were a lot of people at U of Delaware who were all for the war, but were scrambling for deferments because they had 'more important things to do'.
Plus ça change, plus ça meme chose.

[Arkana]

71. Agreed with all except the mandatory military service bit in Switzerland

I know these chickenhawks--I'm a college kid and I see 'em day in and day out. They're absolute idiots for the Bushmeister.

[BrklynLiberal]

72. Carry business cards from enlistment locations and hand them out to these

"Pre-pubs" and other Repukes. That has been suggested here at DU several times. It is a fantastic idea.
Let's see how many of these Repuke warmongers are really willing to put their asses on the line. They are all talk.

[mitchum]

73. Well, maybe they should be put in harm's way OVER HERE

now, I'm not advocating anything...

[Extend a Hand]

74. conscription=slavery

I would never support any legislation than mandated compulsory military or civil service. With the neocons in power, such legislation would be particularly dangerous. They have already stolen two presidential elections and are unlikely to willing give up power. Their published plan at www.newamericancentury.org makes it clear that they plan to continue wars and imperialism indefinitely. A draft would supply them the resources they need and if dems support it in an effort to eliminate the current "poverty draft" I'm sure they'll be happy to accept our support.

My 18 year old step-son voted republican, he attends (with his mother) a very conservative catholic church and a has always attended catholic schools in the burbs. My husband is always emailing him articles and I think he may be coming around; if he came by and said that he enlisted in the military I would be horrified. So...I don't like suggesting that young people who supported Bush should put their money where their mouths are and enlist. I don't wish them dead, permanently damaged by depleted uranium, and mentally scarred by the horrors of war. I want them to change their minds.

[GoBlue]

75. Well said, But we should also be prepared for survivors.

It is my considered opinion that the Republican party line is attached to a sinking ship. I think it is inevitable that some of the chicken-hawks will realize it is in their best interest to let go. We need to be willing to offer a lifeline and let them know we're here to help. Rather then remind them of their complicity, I think it more constructive to offer them an opportunity to redeem themselves. Their support will be necessary to repair the damage the Republicans leave in their wake.

[Swamp Rat]

76. Kick, for all the yellow chickenhawks to read

[B Calm]

77. I asked my republican neighbors 18 year old if he was signing up

after graduation. This boy is a foam at the mouth right-winger!! Everything is Clinton's fault right winger if you know what I mean!

Anyway he said that the military recruiters have tried to get him to sign up, but after learning of his eyesight they don't want him..

I said, son you are not talking to another chickenhawk republican. You are talking to a Vietnam Era veteran. I then said why don't you see if you can pass the military physical before saying anymore freakin' lies. NOBODY in this right-wing family has ever served our country!

[CRK7376]

78. Absolutely Correct!

I'm so tired of hearing them chant their slogans and seeing yellow ribbon magnets on SUVs etc...Do something really supportive like enlisting.....Oh I forgot, they take their leadership skills from the #1 Chickenhawk himself....Georgie....Never did settle that where was Georgie thingy for those 6-9 months of National Guard service in Alabama....

I would love to see some form of universal service for our countries youth. I've got over 26 years of military service so I kind of understand that all volunteer thing....

[B Calm]

81. Sink like a rock, hell no! KICK

[SammyWinstonJack]

82. Exactly what they are,

"Baby Chicken hawks" supporting an adult? chicken hawk who was at their age what they are now. Birds of a feather......