Is the current hyping hijacking of 'Christianity' a fad or a movement?

[Stinky The Clown]

I have to wonder about this. The fever pitch to keep 'christianity' at the fore of our consciousness. Is it really reflective of a sweeping movement or is it a fad? Have the numbers or true believers really grown, or is more a matter of their recently volume? Is it the product of non-stop piling on to a proven ratings grabber by the media or is it reflective of our real society?

I'm honestly wondering if it is more akin to the flower children of my youth - a testing of a new paradigm - or if it is really where we're going.

Somehow, I see it as a passing thing. The media darling du jour.

What are your thoughts?

[prodigal_green]

1. I think we're starting to see some pushback

from non-kool-aid loving evangelicals. I was quite heartened to hear the faculty of that Christian college in Michigan accuse chimpy of anti-Christian behavior. These folks have their theological bona-fides and are even getting a little attention.

[Horse with no Name]

2. IF it weren't entwined into our government

it wouldn't bother me.
But the path that I see this leading to is a total theocracy.
The fundies are just the hired guns.
The money is coming from DC.
It is a well planned and well executed coup. Many are totally ignoring it.
Very soon it will be too late.

[AlabamaYankee]

31. Actually the the money's coming from private sources

There are a couple of hyperconservative private foundations that are providing the serious financial backing for the politicized movement. They're basically the same ones that have bankrolled the ultra right wing - Scaife, Bradley, and a couple of others.

This is where the big difference is between the earlier fundamentalist surges and the current one. I'm concerned that the steady source of money, together with sympathetic media outlets will give this one more momentum , although hopefully not enough to let them get established in legislation.

Hullabaloo and Slacktivist have been keeping up with this.

[ewagner]

3. Hard to say

the way the ABC television network is behaving, I would have to say that those network execs are treating it like a fad.

On the other hand the number of new evangelical or pentacostal churches showing up in my neighborhood makes me believe there is something resembling a movement afoot.....

[Horse with no Name]

5. In the larger town in our area

The Pentecostals have signs EVERYWHERE that advertise folks to "get connected".
There are billboards, yard signs, trailers with it painted on it.
Very strange indeed.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. Yep

The base they are catering to take it seriously and think all of America is ripe for converting. The organization people know it's just a fad and that's how they're treating it. As I said in another post: it's just like big hair in the 80's.

[tnlefty]

39. Along with the "McChurches", those HUGE complexes.

These are the ones that seem to be the most overtly political and have the vast numbers of stepford women in them. Question nothing, just do what the preacher, hubby or church elder says. These also seem to have the meanest congregations.

[mwb970]

4. People will get tired of hearing about it

if they haven't already. I sure have.

[TrogL]

6. It's waaaay more dangerous than a fad

This has been in the planning stages for decades.

[FreedomAngel82]

15. And the people who

cater to them (republicans) don't do anything about it though. The religious base in the group thinks they have the support of their Senators and Congressmen when in reality they obviously don't. Why else don't you hear anything else about Roe V Wade and gay marriage? Bush and the other republicans don't care about it. It's just lip service.

[Bridget Burke]

7. It's a deliberate campaign.

Search for data on Dominionists, Christian Reconstructionists or Theonomists.

Here's a good site: www.theocracywatch.org/

More info here: www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

These people are Fundamentalist/Evangelicals--but not all Evangelicals or even all Fundamentalists are part of the group. Their aim is to remake the US into a twisted version of Old Testament society. They have been frighteningly successful.

[FreedomAngel82]

16. Even though

they are serious and have been a little successful I haven't seen too much of the republicans caring about them. All they care about (republicans) is having power for THEIR agenda.

[FreedomAngel82]

8. It's a fad

Just like big hair in the 80's. That's all it is. That's why I'm not worried. Yes, there are really big battles but it'll pass. Look at how marketed Christianity is. All the books, music, video's. Now on the "news." Only thing to do is just not watch. We have to show them people aren't interested in these type of shows or "news" stories.

[ucmike]

9. PR efforts of a vocal bunch of fundamentalists

working to whip up the unispired masses by convincing them that the beliefs they have quietly held, unopposed, for a long time are under attack. its the workings of a few strategists who seek to connect our government with their religion irreversibly.


basically noise from a fringe group who have managed to perfect their "game" from fundy shouting to strategic, focused, media driven agendas. they have learned alot and are using their tools very carefully.

[BobRossi]

10. Sex sells better than God

If the media can't make money off God they will continue to sell Sex.
Faux is the biggest seller of sex on tv, you won't hear Homer reciting bible passages.

[IrateCitizen]

11. It's just one more iteration of a long cycle...

Think of the pull between secularism and religiosity in America as existing on a sine wave. Over time, it floats back and forth between the two extremes.

At the time of our nation's founding, skepticism was a widely-held belief. Much of the well-to-do in the South subscribed to one form of deism or another. It was perfectly fine for people to express their skepticism in public.

That all ended in the early 19th century with a series of religious revivals that introduced America to Evangelical Protestantism. The South fell under its spell until... well, the present day. Secularism / skepticism gradually came to take over much of the US during the 1960's and 1970's, and much of religion seriously moderated in response.

We are currently undergoing another Evangelical revival. Soon, they'll overreach and show themselves as the whack-jobs they are, and the vast majority of the American populace will move away from them. Or, perhaps this time we're so stupified by our modern mass "culture", that we'll embrace their insanity. Who knows?

All that is certain is that this is far from the first time that religious whack-jobs tried to take over American society.

[amazona]

12. it seems to be a movement

"Christian" no longer is a name that any decent person would want to be called. The person who calls himself "Christian" instead of "Presbyterian," "Methodist," "Catholic," and so on almost certainly belongs to some hate-filled fundamentalist sect intent on spreading their hate further.

I think we have to accept that the word "Christian" is now poisoned, and that self-appointed "Christians" who are not members of decent mainstream churches should be held up to the scorn and disgust that they have so richly earned by their attempts to kill liberty in this country.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[megatherium]

18. Sheep vs. Goats

Some people call themselves "followers of Jesus" or somesuch to distinguish themselves from the Christians. Read the gospel according to Luke for the perspective of Jesus himself (of course, we don't know if Jesus said this, but it's fair to suggest this is an accurate representation of what the early church believed):

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

[Stinky The Clown]

22. That one gospel, to me, says it all

Funny, isn't it ..... the efungelicals never quote Luke .... or much of anything from the New Testament. Lots and lots of Leviticus, though .... and Revelations .... the fire and brimstone stuff suits their mindset.

[Yoda Yada]

28. You mean the Faux Christians...

Maybe we should start using a different phrase...faux Christians.

The policies that Right-Wing Fundamentalists are embracing are the exact opposite of "what would Jesus do?" What ever happened to peace on Earth...goodwill toward men? Ask them.

[Horse with no Name]

29. Funny thing is

The New Testament IS the Christian Bible.
Old Testament is basically for reference.

[Stinky The Clown]

42. Exactly ... which makes their logic even more convoluted

I guess I'm just too sentient to be a part of it. I just don't get it. When I was raised a Catholic, I really don't recall ever going too much into the Od Testament. That was (at least then) treated as ancine thistory ... as you say .... a reference.

[Horse with no Name]

27. Two words that used to have significant meaning have been

poisoned.
"Christian" and "Democracy".
They both now depict evil things that will be wrought on a society in their names.

[DARE to HOPE]

46. Well, I for one REFUSE to surrender my Lord's name to those who hate!!

I AM a Christian! Yes, I am a Lutheran Christian, but it is Christ's face on the banner in my heart! And I will spend every breath to make sure people know the difference! "Fristians" is what I and my truly Christian friends are calling them, or "Dominionists!" Those who spread the politics of evil and subjugation to the world!

They SHALL NOT HAVE THE NAME OF CHRIST!!!!!! It will be on my dying lips!

[insane_cratic_gal]

14. I think sane christians

(there are some) are starting to push back at the radicals.

People can only stand so much idiocy, irony, and bitch-slapping before they push back. I believe that is what we are seeing. A government hijacking religion and spinning the ideals into a campaign, can only fool so many.

Thank Gore for the internet otherwise we'd back living in caves.

Now if we could just get service to Uath ;)

[flordehinojos]

17. out this morning when a car passed us by, its bumper sticker read

something like this ...

the last time religion and politics mixed together, many people died!

Hooray, i thought... that is one dude whose vision is quite clear!

The car next to it on the other lane sported a christian symbol (fish) and a cross inside the fish.

And my stomach turned, and I said, God you have to forgive me. It is not you that I am rejecting. It is those wingnuts who are Abusing Your Name who claim to speak for You whom I really reject and now ...
by association anyone who displays any outward sign or symbol which by implication carries Your Name becomes someone that I instinctively turn away from...but Dear Lord, it is not You. I hope you know that.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. He knows it

[Lannes]

21. Its a movement until they have an embarassing setback

Like the Bushies getting caught doing something so heinous that those on the fence are finally pushed over the edge.Cant imagine what would be bad enough to do it considering all the bad things about them that have already come out.

[flordehinojos]

23. ...

:)

[FreedomAngel82]

20. If I could

have a bumper sticker like that I'd have: Want the religious right in government? Answer: Salem." Or something like that. I think it hits closer to home then Germany.

[MountainLaurel]

35. Actually

Somewhere recently (perhaps Northern Sun), I saw a bumper sticker that read: "Want to live in a theocracy? Move to Iran."

[MountainLaurel]

25. The exact bumper sticker

Last time we mixed politics and religion, people got burned at the stake.

I should know, it was on my car for several years before I had to have the bumper replaced.

It's the same basic concept as what you said, although a little more telling, 'cause when religion and politics are mixed, it's the women, the people who don't believe the same, or anyone who shows a bit of independence from the norm, who pay with their lives.

[flordehinojos]

32. yes... that's it!!!!!!! thank you for refreshing my memory. i'll edit my

post so that it will read the exac words of the bumper sticker. thanks a lot!

edited to add:

I tried to edit my original post so that it would read the exact words of the bumper sticker, which, you so kindly refreshed my memory with ... but unfortunately editing time has expired and I can't edit it.

but you are right, the bumper sticker correctly read,

the last time we mixed politics and religion people got burned at the stake.

[NYCGirl]

24. I think it's a fad started by the huge success of "The Da Vinci Code" NT

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. It's a manipulation ..funded as part of the war following watergate

Money was funneled to religious orgs on a national level dow to the state level following Watergate..it was a well planned assault on America planned by the likes of the Free Congress Foundation

YOu can read the history of it at PublicEye.org or at www.mediatransparency.org.

This did NOT occur on it's own..little churches sprung up as a result of POLITICS NOT vice versa as everyone seems to believe.

IT was FOMENTED by the hostile takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention in the mid 90's.
http://www.mediatransparency.org/religious_sector.htm

[MadHound]

30. It is the crest of a wave that streches back for thirty five years.

Back in the early seventie, Christian fundies were few and far between, and they pretty much kept to themselves. Politics was seen as a creation of man's world, and their focus was firmly set on the next, thus the vast majority didn't vote or otherwise participate.

As the Sturm und Drang of the sixties wound down, many burnt out hippies, and hippy wanna-bes were looking for something else to give their live meaning, something less violent, more soothing. That is led to a resurgance in Christianity. But these new converts didn't just quietly go to their parents' church, they modernized it. Brought in the electric guitars and drumsets from their wilder youth, promoted a much more modern sense of the church, and started to remake the churchgoing experience in the image of a rock concert. We see this influence unto this day in the big mega churches.

This movement landed on the cover of Time and other mags as the cultural phenomenon du jour, and out of this newfound publicity was born a few lasting cultural icons. The first was the term "born again" which is how these new converts referred to their experience. The second thing was that old line evangelicals sat up, took notice, and jumped in almost immediately in order to mold this massive new flock in their own twisted image. And finally, the ruling elite in this country were in need. The civil rights era had battered and broken their most effective tool that they used to keep the ordinary citizen population divided against itself, racism. Sure, sure, there was still plenty of racism around, and there would be for awhile, but they saw the writing on the wall, and started casting about for a new tool of devisiveness. They found it in fundementalist Christianity.

Roe v Wade provided the best tool for polarizing the fundies back in '72, and the ruling elite and religious elite used it to pummel their newfound flock into line, and have been doing so ever since. The movement grew rapidly, and continues to do so, like a cult on steroids. And like any other cult, they pick on, and pick up the most vunerable and insecure amongst the population. Drug or alcohol problems? Come join us, we can help. Wife burned her bra and left you for a girlfriend in California? Come join us, and we'll fix you up with a suitable Stepford substitute. Black man take that promotion from you? That's OK, you can feel important as you rise through our ranks, and we have only a few tokens that you have worry about.

And like any good cult, they brainwashed their flock into a very black and white mode of thinking, and established the us vs them mentality. In 1980, the religious right got a huge shot in the arm, as they were openly embraced by the Reagan campaign, and contributed significantly to the success of his campaign. Their ranks swelled throughout the eighties, in spite of the handful of scandals that dogged the movement. However Bush I didn't sit with this group very well, despite sending his newly born again son to them as a personal liason. Bush I lacked the charisma of Reagan, instead coming off as simply another East Coast elite. There was tepid support in '88, enough help in order to put him into office. But his actions as president truly turned the fundies stomach, and in '92 they stayed home in droves, which, along with the Perot campaign, helped put Clinton into office.

Clinton in many ways was the best thing to happen to the fundy movement. Despite his downright conservative and moderate leanings, Clinton was painted as the Devil incarnate from day one. The Republicans and conservatives tapped into this frenzy and catered to it, bringing it into the mainstream of American culture. No longer were fundies thought of as backwoods jokes handling snakes and speaking in tongues. They were actively part of the political process, shaping the outlook of not just their own, but Americans of all stripes. And while Dole was lukewarm at best in '96, in '00 they hit paydirt with one of their own, BushII

Now these insane creatures rule the roost, and are determined to tear down America and remake it in their own twisted image. And like any good cult, be it that of religion or politics, their views and outlooks are in the minority. Don't get me wrong, the sheer number of fundies has increased dramatically, to the point where the sheer numbers cannot be ignored. But as a fraction of the population, they are in the minority. And while their views dominate radio, TV and print, those too are minority views. It is very much the akin to the situation in prewar Germany, where you have a minority group of people in favor, a minority group opposed, and the vast middle who are in between, going first one way, then another, depending on who is pushing harder.

All said and done, yes, this is going to be a passing phase in this country's history. We've had the rise of evangelicals before in our history, and they too went away after a few years or decades. But there is going to be tremendous damage done by these people before they go, and the real question is whether or not our country can stand this damage. I certainly hope so, and I'm working to keep our country safe. But I fear that this runaway fundie fascism is going to be too much for the country to bear, and we too will go the way of the Roman Empire, followed by the second Dark Ages.

[Az]

33. Its a social reaction

In a progressive society there are always going to be factions that are not as comfortable with change and progress. Add to this the dogmatic positions created by a belief system that bases its claims on ancient doctrine. This creates a base of constant opposition to progress and when joined by those that are less sure of progress their force is bolstered.

Unfortunately we do not have an effective means within our natural ways to combat this. A determine foe will find it quite easy to undermine and dismantle progress as it is a delicate process. Destruction is always easier and as long as the opponent has given up on the social contract they will be able to apply whatever tact they wish with no fear of consequences. Their only goal is the overthrow of progress.

[mmonk]

34. It's been there in the background,

this is just it's first real access to government and policy.

[RandomKoolzip]

36. I think it's like Bob Dylan's "born-Again" phase....

A few years where he alienates all his fans, then has to go groveling in the pop marketplace to win them back....too bad, Bob/George: you done fucked up, and you'll never have the same luster you used to have.

[Pockets]

37. I think Christianity is flailing

As the time when of the Apocalypse uneventfully comes and goes, and the world becomes more educated. What we're seeing now is its last gasps for air, as they try to make headlines in desparation.

[reality based]

38. Follow the money

I went to a "Christian" college with daily required chapel programs. This was not far from the boyhood home of Cheney's puppet. The college administration regularly brought in an array of social darwinist speakers that dressed their economic elitist indoctrination in pseudo-Christian lingo. One memorable speaker lectured about the need for "freedom" especially the "freedom to starve." The administration used these programs to network with right-wing sources of money (for example, Texas oil and agribusiness interests) that kept the college (and their own salaries) afloat. Christo-fascism has an economic basis on both a macro and micro level. It will be with us as long as economic factors sustain it. When the economic elitist basis of this movement is understood and exposed, it will lose many of its true-believer adherents. The social conservative aspects of christo-fascism are real but in my opinion overstated in terms of what is its essential driving force. People want to go to heaven but they want to keep their pocketbook with them until the last minute. Convince them that they have a choice between social security or anti-abortion laws and most will pick social security.

[spanone]

40. Neither, it's a political agenda.

[kenny blankenship]

41. America is swirling down the drain

As the chaos rises, people who've been encouraged NOT to think for decades now, and who have instead been encouraged to see themselves as divinely entitled to all that is now slipping away from them, will become increasingly irrational and belligerent.

Christianity as a rightist and apocalyptic political movement is the immediate benefactor of the rising tide of desperation and motiveless rage.

We have been de-evolving as a political society since Reagan's election decided that we liked our fantasies, and our past and Hollywood generated images of it more than our present reality or our future; and now that we're about a generation onwards from that terrible turn, and now that our ability to borrow prosperity from abroad and accelerate past our mounting troubles is rapidly running out of gas, this country is just about to hit the steep part of our downward slope.

[Bossy Monkey]

43. Multinational corporation nt

[VOX]

44. It's based on fear, and as long as the RW keeps the fear-level jacked up..

It will probably be with us. The RW wants *everything* divided, and that includes the churches.

Fear is the RW's greatest ally. Without it, they lose.

[hyphenate]

45. It is, in essence

The squeaky wheel getting the oil. Those on the far right HAVE hijacked the conservative end of religion, mainly because those who are NOT radical never thought it would--or could--happen. It simply seems like they're the "majority" but in reality, it's mainly because their whacko leaders are in everyone's face. Those who are now moderate are afraid to speak up, because it will make them look bad to both sides, but they fear retribution from the radical right at the same time.

[Ladyhawk]

47. I vote "movement"

I was raised in the movement. It's been going on too long to be just a fad. Only an alliance of the non-religious and the religious left will push it back to the edges of civilization where it belongs.

:rant:

DAMMIT!!!! I finally get free of the damn religious nuts and then they start taking over the whole country! I just wanted to be free and now look what happens!!!! ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!

:rant:

[progressivebydesign]

48. Fad. We lived thru this in the 70's. n/t