How is this different that the '60's

[serryjw]

I was a teen during the '60's certainly one of the most turbulent decades in our history. We had an on going/escalating war, loss of a Pres, Bobby, Martin, Kent State, kids left their families and their country to Canada.....

Our older DUers, please put this time into perspective for me....Will we also survive this..or how is this different?

Many would say that daddy Kennedy 'stole' the election for Jack

[maveric]

1. JFK would have wone even without the state in question (Illinois).

If Illinois went to Nixon JFK still would had the electorate.

[H2O Man]

12. Right.

It was hard to figure how the last sentence of the OP fit in with the main body.

[Dogmudgeon]

2. No optimism. None at all.

People were optimistic in the 1960s.

Pessimism in all its manifestations became fashionable after Watergate, and it's still going strong 30 years later.

Oh, there were a few brief breaks of optimism, like when Clinton was president. But that's all over now.

--p!

[MADem]

6. And the music is worse.....

It all sounds like the same tired crap. Plus, it is hard as hell to get folks into the streets, everyone hides behind their computer. Of course, information flows much better now, it's harder for them to hide stuff. Patriot 2 will fix that for them, though....the baaaaaaastids!

[Dogmudgeon]

22. Worse music?

They owned it before, they still own it now.

Stuff like good music comes from hope. The same goes for sex and drugs. One reason optimism is dead is because every source of human pleasure is now sold as being lethal -- there is no sense of moderation or rationality, it's all death-instinct and punishment-seeking. One puff of marijuana will turn you into an addict and ruin your life, one single boff will kill you, and music allegedly will hypnotize you into accepting Satan, the New World Order, and SUV ownership, all at the same time.

Patriot 2 will be like planting the flag on the conquered territory a week after every last inhabitant has been killed. "Real ID" passed about two weeks ago, and no one raised a fuss.

The next "revolution" will hit in about five or ten years, when people realize that their whole lives are going to be forfeit to a massive clusterfuck of greed, lies, and long-term resource mismanagement.

And there will be no music -- every single musical interval will have been claimed as intellectual property by then, as well as every word in the English language.

Sorry to sound so glum. I never did think of the 60s as being all that wonderful an era, but compared to what followed it -- and what will follow from now on -- it was actually probably pretty good.

--p!

[MADem]

27. It was not especially wonderful at the time

It was awful, in fact. Generational splits, fighting, law and order versus peace...it was very uncomfortable, and very political. Police were pigs, the man, and you were cautioned to not trust anyone over 30.

The only thing that made it really hopeful was retrospect. At the time, it was a helluva fight, but the loosening of sexual mores, plus all the cheap pot, plus the intuitive knowledge that the cause was just, made it bearable. That, and the music....

Nowadays, they want to take away your pot and your sex, claim you are unpatriotic if you dissent, force you to go to church, and the music sucks on top of everything else. You have reason to be glum, I guess.

[RandomKoolzip]

3. In the 60's, you could support a family of four on a single income....

Even a blue collar income. Since 1972 or so, the cost of goods has risen dramatically, while wages, adjusted for infaltion, have not increased. Therefore, more people have to work 2 or sometimes 3 jobs just to get by, while mom must also work "outside the home" and junior gets a job as soon as he can to help out.

It's no coincidence, either. When you only have to work 35 hours a week to support a family, you have all sorts of free time to contemplate the meaning of life and try to find out how to make things better. This inevitably leads to wanting social change.

You keep everyone busy enough, and they'll be too damn tired to demand change for the better.

[me b zola]

16. Excellent post

I also see economic factors as the most significant difference between then & now. Even for those of us--and our numbers are growing--who have figured out just how dangerous & criminal this administration is, people are not in the position to take time off of work to fill the streets and demand justice. Our permitted protest marches do not carry the same weight as mass peaceful civil disobedience, and most people today cannot risk being jailed as they may lose their jobs.

I, too, agree that the economic stranglehold they have on us is no coincidence, they've been doing their damnedest to make economic slaves of us since the people's revolt of the 60's.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. This is no fun

The 60's, despite all the bullshit, were a lot of fun.

[havocmom]

5. There were some people on TV who actually reported the news

Cronkite, Brinkley and their associates actually reported a little more than just reading press releases from the WH. A bit easier for the public to get a bit on info. And more of the public was interested in getting the info. Now in times of crisis, we are told by our leaders to 'go shopping'. Too many actually listen to that bullshit advice.

[Warpy]

7. I'm afraid this is far worse, if only because we weren't on the brink

of an economic collapse while the dumb fuck in the White House works diligently to make sure the country is utterly isolated in this world.

I'm afraid we're going to have a perfect storm of Repuglican stupidity visited upon this nation. The only question is how long it will be stalled, and how many of us will survive it.

[grilled onions]

8. The protesters of war...

often included "men of the cloth". It was not considered as unpatriotic to praise peace over war. The word freedom was not used at all as I remember. Peace was the mantra. The name calling seemed to lean towards accusing the protesters of being "red" or cowards. Because there was a draft many wanting peace were forced to make choices of running or going to a war they didn't want to get into. Today it seems the "fundies" seem in control and the reasons for war seem to be mired into what is "their crusade".

[Frances]

14. People like Bush and Cheney kept their mouth shut

because they didn't want attention focused on the way they were avoiding the draft.

A time came when young people were pretty united in not wanting to be drafted. Some middle aged people (without draft age children for the most part) thought the young men should go to war the way they did in World War II. They weren't about to distinguish between the 2 wars.

Also, most young people were united culturally, especially by music, which many adults disapproved of, even the Beatles, believe it or not (We're more popular than Jesus Christ really made some preachers mad). The music of the 60s has been co-opted by the fundies. (I saw a fundy with a sweat shirt saying God Rocks last week.)

The right wing religous nuts were seen as nuts, but since the population is shifting to the southern part of the U.S., the right wing religious nuts are now running the country.

[orpupilofnature57]

9. Shrub, wouldn't make a pimple on J.F.K.'s ass, and we should know more than

in the 60's. We've taking a big step backward, and its a more dangerous planet today

[blogslut]

10. The difference for me...

...is that I was a little kid back then. Now I'm not.

Now I can read, research and act. Now I have power.

We all have power. We're still Americans and there is still hope we can fix this mess. Keep speaking out. Keep shining a light on the darkness. Keep after these bastards. We will overcome.

[bemildred]

11. There are more and better drugs available and everybody is in debt. nt

[AndyTiedye]

13. What Was Different? Everything!

We Had a 2-Party System Then, and a Free Press.
We had some great jurists on the Supreme Court,
Democrats controlled Congress (though the "Democrats" included a large contingent of boll weevils).
The churches were mostly working for positive social change, not against it.

The takeover of the media is probably the greatest loss.
In those days, things like the Pentagon papers and Watergate
actually got lots of play in the news. Now, nothing.
We staged massive anti-war demonstrations.
They got so little coverage most people didn't even know about them.

They also have Diebold. Yes, elections have been stolen before, but
on a national scale, local political machines tend to balance each
other out. Diebold allows the Republicans to rig elections anywhere
and everwhere. We have no recourse to this if we lose the courts,
which is what the nuclear option is all about.

[mitchtv]

15. In the 60's the youth was out there

Now they are not. Same people are out there as in the 60's. Difference- a draft.
Ah, the music, protest songs and singers- Joan Baez went to jail even. Now who even understands the lyrics?.( I am OLD)
Masters of War
Blowin in the wind
Bring the boys home
War, the ecology
War what is it good for?
Only a Pawn in the game
to name only a few my MJ addled brain can still remember
Besides Kent state there was Peoples Park, SF State, Paris, Prague
the be ins the marches, Ah my friend "we were young , and sure to have our way"

[izzie]

17. Their was a joke that every town in the US would get a new PO

if you voted for Kennedy and a lot of new ones sure were in the works after he got in. Vietnam started so slow and so few got killed we did not hear a lot about it. It was talked about in the service and I was married to a service man. I recall him working to get the 'call letters' that he was a navy corp men off job rating he could do because of it. He had a friend that was killed on the ship that was hit in the Tonkin Gulf the one that got split in half. Also the fort the Fr. lost was a really big battle and lose to them and that was talked about a lot. It was when the killing got so high that every one got so up set.Also do re-call we had Russia.

[Toby109]

18. Here's a clue:

The first Super Bowl wasn't even a sell out. More distractions, less participation.

[TheFarseer]

19. no draft. Iraq doesn't directly effect enough people yet n/t

[AngryOldDem]

20. Was a child in the '60s...

...but remember the decade quite well, and actually understood most of what was going on. From where I sit, tbe biggest difference between then and now is that people then actually gave a shit about people and things other than themselves. We are so self-centered as a society and culture these days -- I think that more than anything explains why things are so screwed up. The '60s were turbulent for many reasons, but underlying it all was that many people felt strongly enough to stand up and fight for what they believed in. It wasn't the old, "Well...what's in it for me?" mindset.

And I do have my days when I seriously doubt if we will survive this sad period of history.

[housewolf]

21. It was a more optomistic time

Speaking from my own personal perspective, as someone who started college in 1967 and may not match anyone else's perspective or history...

We were still in a rapid-growth phase that started after WW2. We were inspired by Kennedy to go to the moon, we had the successes of WW2 behind us, we were loved and respected around the world. We thought we were on top of the world - the best, the brightest, the most generous.

We were all more innocent in those days. We had more trust in our institutions - govenrment, schools, companies.

The civil rights movement set the tone for the decade. Many felt that we were righting a horrible wrong, and leaders like Martin Luther King inspired us. We saw that change was possible, and that we could play a part in it. That sense carried over into our feelings about the Viet Nam war.

There was a huge desire for peace and love. We believed in both and thought that we could bring them into being. It was a movement that involved a huge chuck of the population, particularly the young. We had music and culture that both helped lead the vision and supported it.

Most imporatantly, we had a vision of peace and love and a belief that we could bring them into being. We were expanding our consciousness the experimenting in the realms of the cultural, physical, mental, intellectual and spiritual. There was a hunger for learning, for "the new."

1968 changed a lot of that, the assianations of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King disillusioned us.

Yes, the devestating events of the late 60's and early 70's had a chilling effect. But the war was wrong, and we knew it was wrong, and many of us we were young enough and courageous enough to put our lives on the line to keep speaking up against its immorality. But the real opposition to the war arose when Viet Nam vets came back and started standing up against the war and speaking out against it. Those who had actually served in the war brought credibility to the anti-war movement that college kids didn't have.


The hope for today, in my opinion, has to come from the youth. It's their future that is at risk. The reputation of the US affects all of us, but it will affect today's youth much longer than for us baby boomers.

This is an era of great change and upheaval, also. Today all of the institutes we used to trust are crumbling - governtment has proven itself untrustworthy, corporations are falling right and left and broken their trust with the people. Religious institutions are failing - symptomized by the problems the Catholic Church has had in recent years. All hierarchial institutions are failing. New sorts of leadership and organization are coming in (being led, I believe, by groups of women who have a differnt vision of how people can work together) - but all this takes time, much longer than we can see. It's very slow kind of work.

If you look at the political history of the US, you'll see that there are generational shifts. About every 40 years the pendulum swings from liberal to conservative and then back to liberal again. Liberalism reign from the 1930's into the 1970's. Conservatism has reigned from at least 1980 (if not earlier) and has a bit of time left. I hope that what we are seeing today is the height of its cycle and that it is beginning to wane now - (as we have heard from folks like Pat Buchanan who wrote just this past week that the Conservative Movement was dying).

I believe that the hope for the future is in women and in the youth. I desperately hope that the youth find a vision that inspires them to work for a better future soon. But I trust that that time will come.

[Toots]

25. Very well said

Plus we saw real change happen. LBJ and his Great Society. That was wonderful and it helped untold people. I think one of the problems we face today is we see no means to effect change. Especially if they truly do have the ballot box fixed. Woodstock was great. A half a million people coming together for a cause and no violence. Sort of a bit of proof it could indeed happen. Peace really is obtainable. I am with you in that it is time for the women to step up and put this world back together. I pray you all find a way.

[sandnsea]

23. No 9/11

No WMD all over the world. The two together seriously confuse things. It would be easy to say pull out of Iraq if people didn't have to think about terrorist states, like Afghanistan. They never would have been able to push this war without terrorists in the back of people's minds. And people can say whatever LIHOP/MIHOP thing they want about 9/11. In order to make that stick, they'd have to LIHOP/MIHOP the first WTC attack, the embassy bombings, the Cole, Bali, Madrid, etc. The Democratic Party has to put out a stronger plan of action against terrorism than Republicans. Until that happens, we're going to be stuck in this limbo.

[bvar22]

24. The people in power now are FAR MORE DANGEROUS.

In the 60's:

A family of 3 with ONE person working full time could:
a) buy and pay off a house

b) afford a car (usually 2 cars)

c) afford good schools (and college) for the children

d) afford good health care and insurance

e) Save some money

f) locally owned independent businesses and farms could provide a living (good) income for families.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

26. All of the above

and we're starting to lose the "checks and balances" in effect for all our history. Fifteen years ago I was helping an acquaintance from eastern Europe study for US citizenship and going through the Constitution. She says "It's so complicated." And I told her (hopefully correctly) that it's supposed to be that way, so that majority rule doesn't overrun minority rights. I haven't talked to her in some time, maybe I should call her and let her educate me on the "Enabling Act."

[slaveplanet]

28. This is different

because this time round they have the electronic straitjacket...and they are going to stick everyone in it...

[serryjw]

29. Well..this is all depressing

Unfortunately, I agree with all of it.People are so busy with 3 jobs to even think about taking time off to protest. I have been very lucky in the last 5 years. I tripped over a great cheap apartment that includes utilities. I have had the luxury of time to work to fight Bushit & Co. I understand that few do.

The loss of our free press is unmeasurable. I don't see it my lifetime that this will change..they are bought and paid for by Corporate America.

[Carni]

30. Two words: CLEAR CHANNEL

I was a young child during the 60's but even I got the idea that there was something wrong when I listened to my little Lloyds radio at night...the music was powerful and hard to ignore.

Now the kids are force fed crap by faux bands with insipid coporate messages.

Maybe this isn't the base line problem but it certainly isn't helping matters.