A Pale Blue Dot - A must read

[bpyatt]

On October 13, 1994, the famous astronomer Carl Sagan was delivering a public lecture at his own university of Cornell. During that lecture, he presented this photo:


..........



http://www.bigskyastroclub.org/pale_blue_dot.htm

[LibInternationalist]

1. Isn't it amazing?

Who will be the Sagan of this generation?

[shoelace414]

2. Read it

It's a good book.

[ulysses]

3. thank you.

:thumbsup:

[insane_cratic_gal]

4. Beautiful being Carl was

"That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam."

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LibInternationalist]

6. wha?

[mopinko]

9. reference to

carl (bill?) being a well known pothead?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slay]

26. Bill Hicks was such a comic (cosmic) genius

on so many levels. He saw through all the bullshit just as Carl Sagan did. :)

[oldtime dfl_er]

7. Makes me more sympathetic to the scene in "Hitchhiker's Guide

to the Galaxy" where they blow up the earth. Just a tiny little implosion, like popping a zit, rather than a huge STar Wars type explosion. Very funny scene.

www.cafepress.com/showtheworld

[Straight Shooter]

21. I much prefer the Gahan Wilson cartoon where Earth impacts a spaceship

It's a huge spaceship just traveling out there, and Earth smashes against its windshield like a bug. The two aliens look at each other and simultaneously say, "Ewwwwww!!" :7

[DrDebug]

8. The single pixel is all we got

Let's be careful with it ;)

Amazing story. Nominated and kicked!

[Bandit]

10. The thing about Sagan was his lack of imagination

He said emphatically that even if there were other life in the Universe it would be "impossible" for them to ever come to earth or for us to ever contact them because of the immense distance between star systems. I believe just because we can not currently conceive of any way to travel those distances does not mean it can't be done. There are too many unanswered questions.

[DrDebug]

12. I agree with you

(putting on an anti-flame jacket)

Given the fastness of space and diversity of nature, it is inconceivable that there isn't life somewhere else.

Given the fastness of intelligence and the enormous achievements humans have made, it is inconceivable that there aren't civilizations at a higher level and with more advanced technology.

Given the technology which we have developed it is inconceivable that we haven't been noticed before as a planet where life is feasable and where a civilisation has developed.

Therefore I find the idea that other beings have seen or been to earth not something to deny, but more a likelyhood. However since human being tend to go on a stampede with that concept, the idea has to be carefully introduced. We have seen that happen as well in movies and books. Many UFOs are false. That is very clear, but some could well have been correct.

Then again most people don't want to think about these possibilities, since the concept is literally too alien for them, so flame me!

[immoderate]

15. OK, brace yourself.

We have been "broadcasting" for less than 100 years. Therefore our signals could reach out no more than a radius if 100 light years. This is very close in astronomical terms. If there are any advanced civilizations out there, they would be detected by us far sooner than we would be detected by them.

It's reasonable to say that in terms of intergalactic super civilizations, nobody knows we're here. Therefore they will not visit us. There is much more in terms of the contradiction of being interstellar and yet undetected, because of the energy and longevity requirements of such a civilization.

Most of these "close encounter" scenarios would dissolve in the face of logic if not for the prevalence of wishful thinking. For instance, why does a super-scientific, omniscient, intergalactic civilization need to send delegates here to stick their finger in our butt?

--IMM

[htuttle]

17. You're right.

100 light years is only 1/10th of the thickness of the galactic 'disk'. That means that even if there were other actual civilizations in the very same part of the Milky Way, they likely wouldn't know of our existence yet.

I agree with Sagan on this. Even if it were possible to travel FTL, the odds of having two civilization being 'FTL-capable' within the same 20,000 years seems pretty slim (ignoring the distinct possibility that FTL travel may not even be possible in our universe. Certainly our current physics says it's not possible).

The oldest civilization on Earth at this point is what -- probably 2000-3000 years at best? (China maybe?). Even sending a probe to the nearest stars with our current technology makes no sense. A one way trip of an unmanned probe to Alpha Centauri would take about 30,000 years with our current technology. Maybe we could double the speed with research, and cut the time to 15,000 years. The question is, who's going to be listening for the data when it finally arrives?

[LibInternationalist]

18. If we can get off this planet

I don't think that 20,000 years is necessarily an upper bound for civilization (China's been around continuously for about 8000 years now, right?)

[immoderate]

19. Jump -- you're off the planet.

That doesn't put you much closer to intergalactic civilizations.

Again, 20,000 years to get to stars that are closest to us. We can be pretty sure if there were advanced civilizations there, we'ed have detected them. Any civilization that advanced would have had technology for thousands of years, so we would have detected them. Beyond that would take oh, millions of years to travel to. Not practical with our knowledge of physics. Sorry.

--IMM

[LibInternationalist]

20. I just meant that our civilization would last long enough

if it becomes spread out enough to avoid extinction through asteroid impact or nuclear war (granted, it would become very different, but with still progressing technology)

My point isn't about travel time, but about the survival of humanity.

Our knowledge of physics is improving every day -- I'll choose optimism.

[immoderate]

22. Yes the limit is us.

It is very possible for us to destroy ourselves before natural disasters do us in. We are near to the technology which will prevent asteroids from getting us. More likely garbage will get us.

Remember, the sun will explode, and the universe will freeze.

--IMM

[Algomas]

25. "Why does a super-scientific, omniscient,intergalactic civilization need

to send delegates here to stick their finger in our butt?"

To see if we are done, of course.

[edhopper]

13. I think it was not lack of imagination

but an emphasis on reality as opposed to sci-fi. He was a great admirer of science fiction writers, but was trying to explain that in real scientific terms things like interstellar travel and communication faced giant obstacles. He showed that these things were possible over long periods of time, but that the "Star Trek" universe was not something we should count on. He was explaining the difference between theoretical possibilities and hard facts.
The man who helped conceive the theory of "Nuclear Winter", wrote "Cosmos" and "Contact" did not lack in imagination.

[LibInternationalist]

16. I didn't get that at all -- I think he was very hopeful

about finding other intelligent life

[warrior1]

11. Whoa

Sagan had a big brain. Thanks for sharing.

[rndmprsn]

14. amazing...thank you for this...

and mr sagan, thinking people around the world miss you.

[xxqqqzme]

23. nominated - it is

incredible isn't it - that little one pixel spot. In my early pot, endless rap days, this would have rendered the group speechless!

[lonestarnot]

27. Most coolamundo!

[Lisa]

28. guaranteed, he'd have been pretty upset about things today ...

A lot of the things he predicted in "The Demon-Haunted World" have come to pass.

A while ago I would have said it was almost a relief that he didn't have to watch the Bush Bandits trashing what he believed in -- science, education, the environment, democracy, international relations -- but as upset and sorrowful as I suspect he'd be, I also believe that he would be out there with Bill Moyers and Al Gore, trying to turn things around.

[Eloriel]

29. Very nice, but for the record --

and I'll bet I'm not alone -- some of us don't appreciate the teases and come ons. Just tell us what it's about, 'kay?

And welcome to DU. It was a lovely diversion, but I'd really rather choose whether or not I'm interested BEFORE I take the time to go surfing.

Thanks.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.