McCain (& Kerry, Bush, 2000, 2004, 2008.. this week's New Yorker)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

People, you have GOT to get your hands on this (in print only) article by Connie Bruck McCain’s Party : The Arizona senator gets ready for 2008.
It goes into tremendous detail of the dynamics of John McCain the man, the 2000 campaign and how Bush fucked McCain over, the 2004 campaign- where Kerry foolishly let it be known he was seriously considering McCain as VP, and how Rove turned it around to bite Kerry in the ass- all the time using McCain as a tool more than Hanoi ever could have hoped for.

As a staunch Kerry fan, it was for me, a very painful article, because I knew so much of it was true- that Kerry truly believed McCain was a friend, and was then devestated when McCain happily participated in Bush's campaign out of a sense of duty to the greater good of the GOP (apparently, Kerry never felt more betrayed, although thankfully, McCain still, REALLY hates Bush's guts). McCain exclaims why he (purportedly) believed Bush was better than Kerry ("...he's indecisive, EVERYONE knows Kerry is indecisive!!!") Personally, I think he is just deliberate.

The reason I am posting is this: McCain is the GOP's guaranteed winner in '08. NOT the choice of the extreme right wing of the GOP, but the Rockefeller moderates, who in fact did cross over for Kerry last year. If the GOP nominates McCain, you can take it to the bank- ANY Dem we nominate is toast- McCain is 44. He will beat anyone- Hillary, Kerry, et al... McCain proved this week how adept he is by 'starring' in the compromise- he was a hero to moderates, and how after Bush, McCain is the logical choice to 'heal' the divided country. (That, he acknowledges, will be his selling point)

If anyone has a clue on how to stop McCain, I am all ears, and don't say Jeb Bush. The only seed of weakness I see is this: it turns out, (and I was surprised to read this) that McCain promised MORE to the pro-life movement than Bush himself in 2000. McCain promised ONLY to nominate pro-life judges, and he was so persuasive, that he got early drop-out candidate Gary Bauer to work for him and help him in South Carolina- the reason McCain lost SC was Pat Robertson, who used his vast and much larger Christian network to mobilize against McCain- even though Bush had never promised to explicitly and specifically nominate pro-life judges!!! So IOW, Robertson was bought by the Bushes- he worked AGAINST principle and for the Bush family. But ironically, McCain is not really a pro-life candidate, as can be evidenced by some of the moderation he has taken in his career, and by the very fact that the Christian right HATES him. The facts are this: early on McCain decided to posture himself as pro-life ONLY because he knew it would help him as a Republican- not that he really believes it- it was very nearly an arbitrary decision. His family, is in fact, somewhat LIBERAL- his daughter voted for KERRY, and his mom, is at the least pro-choice. So what McCain will do to guarantee victory in '08, is RUN from his pro-life platform (if the ChFristians let him get out of the primary). Our mission, is to nail McCain on HIS flip flops.

Just for the record, my short list of GOP nominees in '08 and in order, is McCain, Hagel, and then Jebbie. (Frist is toast.)

[aden_nak]

1. The GOP establishment dosen't want or like McCain.

We should be so lucky if he somehow wins the Republican nomination in 2008. At least then we'd only be losing to a partial asshole. But the Christian Right and the NeoConservatives within the party will not back him, and I think that's too much of a safe base for the Republicans to hold on to. They'll steamroll him and question his patriotism just like Bush did in 2000. And it will work again on their base.

And maybe after it happens in 2008 and 2012 and 2016 he will wake the hell up and realize that he's fraternizing with some of the most grotesquely sinister sons of bithces in American history.

[still_one]

3. you are right on with that analysis

[yolatengo]

6. makes up for it

McCain will probably make up the lost Evangelicals (and he would only lose
SOME because some are of the "straight R ticket" variety and would think
the commie-Manchurian-candidate-RINO-backstabber McCain is a teeeeny
bit better to have in the WH than super-commie-feminazi-lesbian-Antichrist
Hitlery) with centrists from the burbs.

He'd keep all the "I wanna tax cut" suburban GOP social libertarian types,
maybe pick up some conservative Democrats in the South, lose some
nut case Dobson lovers, and carry a lot of the volatile Southwest as a Native
Son.

But, the dude has health problems and will be 71. I know that's not "too
old" anymore (see Reagan and Dole) but, it sows doubt to some people.
Some people think: "he's got cancer! what if we neeeed him and he's,
like, sick?". I know people who said, half-jokingly, "how can Dole push
The Button with that gammy hand of his?".

Bigby

[FreedomAngel82]

23. I agree

They wouldn't want him either. I think his last chance was 2000. They'll find someone to be their nominee.

[still_one]

2. to give you a little comfort

go over to the freepers forum if you have the stomach, and the hate spewed toward mccain is major. This trash his military record, call him a traitor, etc

I believe mccain is toast in his own party, and what he did in 2004 makes him toast for most dems

[FreedomAngel82]

25. I agree

I think he ruined the chance when he worked with Reid on the compromise with the filibuster.

[Pirate Smile]

4. RW loathes McCain. There will be a battle between the RW

religious conservatives (Frist, George Allen, etc.) and the "moderates" who aren't really moderate but just aren't captive to the religious wackos - McCain, Hagel, Guilliani (sp?), etc.)

I think the far right is too powerful for McCain to get the nomination. I hope I'm right.

McCain may be like Lieberman was in the Democratic nomination in 2004. The Republicans loved him but the Democrats wouldn't touch him and didn't trust him. The "real" republicans who vote in the primaries hate McCain.

[Stephanie]

5. Here's a Q&A with the author of the article:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/content/articles/050530on_onlineonly01

[Jane Austin]

58. Connie Bruck?

She's not the Connie from Washington Journal, is she?

[Evergreen Emerald]

7. McCain betrayed the nation too

He had the opportunity in the election to stand up for America--and against the policies of GW. He had the endorsement of both parties and could have been the one to lead us out of the hole the neo-cons dug and the policies that are destroying our Republic and it's democracy. He chose instead to crumble before the power of GW/Cheney/etc. for his own political gain, or from his own lack of courage. He betrayed Kerry and the nation and I will never vote for him.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. I don't do smilies but

big hugs for that post!!!!

[Generator]

24. More hugs

You said it much better than my simple "scum of the earth."

[Evergreen Emerald]

64. scum of the earth ...

...works too!

Thanks for the hugs!

[aden_nak]

8. The only chance McCain has is if the Republicans lose all power.

If they lose both houses of Congress, and the Presidency, I can see McCain coming back and gaining power within the party. But the "establishment" of the party has to utterly fail first. In some ways, it's similar to Howard Dean's rise in popularity and support after the 2004 election. Even then, the party had a lot of reservations, but there was enough public support to change that even the party bosses had to suck it up.

And that is not to say that John McCain and Howard Dean are similar. I don't think they are. But they do have similar roles within their respective parties as outsiders. I can imagine McCain finally getting the support of his own party in a situation like that. But while the Republicans still at least enjoy even PARTIAL control of the government? No way.

[Squeech]

9. Never happen

The Republican party as presently constituted is essentially a mafia, and they require a figurehead who will look the other way while they loot the country. McCain, for all his waffling, is liable to suddenly break out in a fitful attack of integrity and turn on the most egregious looters (especially those named "Bush"), and they can't risk that. He will never get the nomination.

[emulatorloo]

10. McCain will win if nominated -- but I believe he will be "Roved" before

Karl Rove will unleash his usual hounds of hell and flying monkeys to destroy McCain; McCain may think he's ready this time, but they'll stop at nothing.

[FreedomAngel82]

26. That could happen

It could be 2000 all over again. He'll be ahead and then out of nowhere, bamb. Someone else will end up the nominee.

[returnable]

37. Wrong. Dead wrong. You should read the article if you believe that.

The article states, and I quote:

"McCain aides even talk enthusiastically about Karl Rove helping McCain in 2008."

[emulatorloo]

44. Will read the article, but bet the McCain aides are living in fantasyland

No doubt Karl Rove made lots of promises to McCain during McCain's hugfest '04 campaign w GWB. But personally, I don't think Karl's word means anything.

Rove and his masters need somebody more pliant and predictable than McCain. Frist is damaged goods now, but they'll find somebody. . .maybe I am wrong, I'm wrong all the time.

[returnable]

45. The key to remember is Rove's ultimate goal is one-party rule

I don't think he cares whom he must use to achive those ends. His motives are less idealogical and more pragmatic. The religious right got him this far, but if senses a backlash kicking in, he'll need someone with more crossover appeal than Frist.

And McCain's righthand man, Weaver, is a former Rove protoge. Now that they've mended fences, anything is possible.

[Pirate Smile]

53. I think Allen or Frist will get Rove so they can "swiftboat" the other

two vets - McCain and Hagel.

[returnable]

54. I think Rove will go with whatever candidate has the best chance to win...

...and then craft his strategy accordingly.

He's like the Phil Jackson of strategists. Picks the frontrunner, and then brings 'em home :hi:

[carnie_sf]

11. I really believe

that in an election cycle where he participates fully, Wes Clark can beat any of these clowns.

[Cleita]

12. If he does become the GOP candidate, then it might

signify that the Republicans have taken their party back from the PNAC neo-cons. That could be a good thing. If the neo-cons are gone, then we might have fair elections and I think the public at large is fed-up with Republican mis-management and might opt for a Democrat this time.

[Cleita]

14. Update.

McCain just lost any credibility with me that he had left and it was very little. The fact that he is backing Bolton for the UN is disgusting, but getting up on the Senate floor and saying that the UN needs fixing and Bolton is the guy to do it is out and out misleading and is pretty much a lie. Doesn't this ring of SS needing fixing?

And since when do we go in with our tool kit to fix international organizations that don't suit us? Isn't the UN ambassador supposed to negotiate with the other ambassadors to instigate change, not bluster in and order them around. Makes me miss Shirley Temple.

McCain is a :thumbsdown:. He's another neo-con lackey. F*** him.

[returnable]

41. You should really read the article. McCain is the PNAC's wet dream

The neocons of the PNAC consider McCain one of their own. And he is. He even signed the 1998 "invade Iraq" letter the PNAC sent to Clinton.

Don't kid yourself. McCain is, was, and always will be a nation-building hawk.

[Cleita]

50. I'll look for it the next time I'm at the library.

There's isn't any bookstore close by to buy a copy.

[returnable]

51. I was disappointed it wasn't on-line...

...though I'm sure it will end up getting reproduced and circulated soon enough.

It's definitely worth tracking down.

[rndmprsn]

13. my hope is...

mccain and frist and/or allen, and/or "insert another rethug asshole here" tear the f*ck out of each other in the primaries...will be delivered unto the national stage as damaged goods from the primaries and the pathetic state of the country under dimwit2...then...

the dems nominate a real middle-class progressive/populist with loads of charisma, from the south or midwest, they pick a fantastic VP and FIGHT the rethugs to uphold OUR values...and NOT hold back!

i think this could be a good route to victory in 08, gotta get through 06 first.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

16. An ironic morsel of knowledge from the article...

says that McCain would have put off seeing the doctors about the skin patch on his face- the one that turned out to be malignant. Had McCain won the primaries and waited just a few more weeks, he would most likely have died. So Bush, by beating McCain, actually ended up saving his life.

[KansDem]

17. "McCain is 44"

What's up with this? McCain was born in 1936. That will make him 72 in 2008.

What's with the reference to "44?" :shrug:

[NYCGirl]

18. President of the United States #44? NT

[KansDem]

21. Oh, now I get it...

:dunce:

Thanks!

[Zorra]

19. Recommended. He is the pseudo "moderate" chosen to carry on the PNAC

agenda.

[KansDem]

20. "...McCain, Hagel, and then Jebbie."

Yeah, I've heard Jebbie or another Bush is considered for the GOP ticket. To tell you the truth, I'd be greatly surprised if ANY Bush made it to the ticket. The Bush Family has been in power for 16 of the last 25 years, and both the nation and world are disasters as a consequence.

[aden_nak]

33. Don't kid yourself. They're going to run Jeb in either 2008 or 2012.

Unless, of course, the freakshow they run in 2008 gets elected to two terms. Then they might put it off a bit. But it's damn near a dead lock that you're going to get SOMEONE off of the PNAC signee list.

Oh! Oh! Maybe Dan Quayle!

[glitch]

60. My prediction: they set up a situation that brings sympathy to the bush

family to provide cover for a jebbie run.

This is assuming there is an 'election' scheduled at all.

[Generator]

22. His only reason for backing Bush

is his own political aims. His giving torture memo Gonzalez a pass was when I knew. He's the scum of the earth. Of course he betrayed Kerry-hell the ass betrays himself. And he hasn't a chance to be President if "they" don't want him because they will just smear him again. He's not that bright apparently. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

34. His anti-choice position is also politically grounded

Huge decision (women's/mother's rights) to be so fickle about IMHO. Oh, and your opinion- is well founded and well worth sticking to!
Excellent post. A lot of great comments here.

[hippiegranny]

27. one simple reason he'll never make it

he is not good looking enough. he is short, chubby and has a pizza face. he was much younger back on '00 and has not aged well since.

[tsuki]

28. Keating Five.

[returnable]

38. Won't mean a thing in 2008.

I don't even think it means anything now to the average voter.

It certainly wasn't an issue for him in the 2000 GOP primaries.

[tsuki]

40. Depends on how long and hard you scream. Remember, Kerry's

Viet Protest wasn't a big deal until 2004.

Do you know how much Keating McCain cost you, you significant other, your children and maybe grandchildren over 30 years?

[returnable]

42. Don't get me wrong...

I'm more than familiar with that scandal and what the costs have been.

But I doubt they'll be able to hang McCain with it. Shit, Dubya's been involved with more crooked deals than that and he hasn't paid the price politically.

[Parche]

29. Kerry

Everyone of us has been "hurt" by so called friends
this is no different

Being a history buff, I have respected VADM John Mccain commander
task force 38, and his son Commander John McCain captain of the
submarine Gunnel
But I have lost all of my respect for the Senator, to do something
like this, and to have GW Bush attack him like he did, and Mccain
does nothing.

[tsuki]

30. Google the Keating Five. Lots of info, like the following.

McCain was one of the so-called "Keating Five" senators. He was investigated by the Senate Select Committee on Ethics in 1991 regarding the acceptance of favors from Lincoln Savings & Loan Association (Lincoln) and its owner, Charles H. Keating, Jr. Simply put, the issue was whether McCain and the other senators used their official positions to attempt to pressure Federal Home Loan Bank Board officials to go easy on the troubled institution. Eventually Lincoln went bust, costing depositors and taxpayers millions.

In its final report (November 20, 1991), here is what the Senate Select Committee on Ethics concluded about McCain's conduct:

"Mr. Keating, his associates, and his friends contributed $56,000 for Senator McCain's two House races in 1982 and 1984, and $54,000 for his 1986 Senate race. Mr. Keating also provided his corporate plane and/or arranged for payment for the use of commercial or private aircraft on several occasions for travel by Senator McCain and his family, for which Senator McCain ultimately provided reimbursement when called upon to do so. Mr. Keating also allowed Senator McCain and his family to vacation with Mr. Keating and his family, at a home provided by Mr. Keating in the Bahamas, in each of the calendar years 1983 through 1986.

"…rom 1984 to 1987, Senator McCain took actions on Mr. Keating's behalf or at his request. The Committee finds that Senator McCain had a basis for each of these actions independent of the contributions and benefits he received from Mr. Keating, his associates and friends.

More at http://www.nationalreview.com/contributors/levin040501.shtml

[Skwmom]

31. Clark is the one who could take on McCain.

Clark has always put the country before his own interests. Clark could call McCain on his selling out of this country.

[NewJeffCT]

32. We have to prepare an attack for EVERY Republican possibility

No matter how small a possibility, you can be assured that Karl "the Rat" Rove, Grover "terrorist enabler" Norquist, etc have extensive dossiers already prepared on Hilary Clinton, John Kerry, Howard Dean, John Edwards, Wes Clark, Mark Warner, and anybody else who is mentioned as a possible for 2008.

We have to do the same.

It was part of our problem last year. We had a lot of great attacks against Bush, but sometimes it was on Iraq, sometimes the environment, sometimes tax cuts for the rich, sometimes the war on terror, sometimes budget deficits. Every Republican attack on Kerry was basically some version of "Kerry is an unprincipled flip-flopper who can't be trusted with protecting America." We were shooting at 100 targets, they were focused like a laser-beam on one.

[returnable]

35. Kicking

I started a thread on this article (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3734829&mesg_id=3734829) without realizing ya already had this one going.

This profile is a must read for folks interested (or worried?) about 2008.

I agree - if he somehow manages to make it past the fundies, he'll be by far the most formidable candidate the GOP could run in the national election.

[bunny planet]

52. Can we please be worried about 2006 first. Without the little voting

machine with no verifiable paper trail problem fixed 2008 is a moot point.

[returnable]

56. I don't see why we can't be concerned about both...

:hi:

[Walt Starr]

36. You can't run for president if you don't get the nomination

and McCain will never EVER be the Republican nominee.

[Pacifist Patriot]

39. I actually do not think McCain is electable.

1. Too Hawkish and this can easily be exploited.

2. Too Moderate for the fringe Republicans who will sell their Bibles for 30 pieces of silver before they'd vote for the man who betrayed Frist.

3. His willingness to stay with the GOP and ally with Bush after what happened to him in the 2000 campaign is not necessarily seen as loyalty by a contingent of both Republicans and Democrats. It's either seen as Too Opportunistic or Too Wimpy. Either way it hurts him.

I don't think McCain could gain as many moderate Democrat votes as he would lose fundamentalist Republican votes.

Of course this analysis relies on fair and open voting systems which is entirely a matter of conjecture.

[grace0418]

43. One possibility is that McCain would be a candidate who

might keep the GOP from voting in lockstep. It could be a good thing if the RW freaks are too disgusted to vote. You never know. But I agree, the idea terrifies me if for no other reason than plenting of Dems that I know think that McCain is alright and don't see him for the fucking whore that he is.

[WildEyedLiberal]

McCain is a WHORE

If Kerry's so "indecisive" then why did McCain's book about the POW/MIA mission spend so much time lauding Kerry and praising him for keeping a cool head and getting things done, when McCain himself admittedly just wanted to explode?

He is a WHORE who STABBED his friend in the BACK. Kerry also never made a formal offer to McCain, which is a lie that McCain is all too willing to exploit. I think McCain will do anything that makes McCain look good. I'm serious, I hate him as much or more than the Neocons, because Judas is worse than the Pharisees. x(

[tinrobot]

46. McCain candidacy spurs RW third party?

I can see the situation of McCain getting the GOP nomination, but the Fristians getting so bent out of shape they run their own guy.

I think we need to promote this...

Divide and conquer

[sniffa]

49. constitution party

frist/roy moore

[dalloway]

47. I, for one, can't get out of my head the images of McCain

kissing up to Bush. He lost all my respect then. If you suck up to Hitler, you are no better. Where was the Straight Talk express then???

[sniffa]

48. what i predict

an ugLy, nasty primary invoLving condi and mccain.
(probabLy others too, but these 2 are my picks for the bLood bath)

i can onLy hope america wakes the fuck up.

[fob]

55. Your profile seems solid except for ONE thing. Do you think the Corporate

Media will get behind him and push the "maverick" image which will give him a good chunk of the undecideds/independents or will bush*co sink his ass with an order to switch to "McCain's crazy, he spent time as a POW and his deck isn't quite full" image.

I think right now Frist has a better chance of a positive image scrubbing (and boy does he need it now)from Corpseorate Media than does McCain.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

57. Well, the media seems to have taken a turn with Newsweek

some of the media anyway, and it looks like they may throw some wrenches into the Bushworks.
Frist will need a complete image do-over, which, as we see with Bush jr., is not impossible.

[libodem]

59. Tell ya what,

they are bashing, McCain, like nobody's business on right-wing talk radio. They think he's a turn-coat for going along with the compromise over the filibuster. If it's on Tony Snow, it's coming from memo from above that picks out the talking points. I kid you not. It's like and old black and white movie: you'll never work in this town again, baby. I was daydreaming', taking out the garbage, having him defect back to our side. They are talking trash about him in a very hateful way. And that ass-wipe, Tony Perkin, President of Family Research Council, is going to the Churches in the districts, and making speeches in Church, against all the compromisers. I ran to my C-SPAN, to see what congressman or senator was saying that kind of garbage but it was Tony Perkin. I see this as a big ol' loop hole in the separation of Church and State. It's as if they have a lobbyist pulling the strings. Makes me sick.:puke:

[autorank]

61. Very useful article. Thanks. But relax, no way this guy gets anything.

The wingnuts have always hated him. All we'd have to do is nominate Clark and someone with some xtian tendancies and we'd wipe the floor with him. He had his chance and blew it. There were a lot of people who saw what he did to Kerry as a betrayal, and not just on our side. In addition, this guy is always about 30 seconds away from a meltdown. I don't think he can take the heat.

Besides, he'll have to defend Bush for 3 more years. How will that sit with Mr. & Mrs. America to have the support/enabler of the world's # "moran" (now at 50% disapprove and rising).

Sorry, this is hype from the PNAC people through a house organ.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

63. A lot of you reference the 'betrayal' of the friendship

but it can also be looked at as Kerry being naive, in overestimating the extent of the 'friendship'. That is part of what was painful for me- that Kerry looked 'clueless' in thinking McCain was any kind of friend. I made the exact same mistake last year thinking Tom Harkin would endorse Kerry over Dean, valuing their bond as Vietnam veterans and Senate colleagues over other considerations. When Harkin did endorse Dean, it felt very much the same for me when McCain began to campaign for Bush, although of course, not nearly as bad. Depressingly, I can actually appreciate McCain's point of view, since as I see it, he decided:
1. that Bush was better than Kerry
2. being loyal to the GOP was more important than any personal ambition.
3. being loyal to the GOP was more important than any 'friendship'.
Military mentality fosters this kind of thinking, where any value judgements one might make as an individual, must succumb to the 'chain of command'.

Anyway, I hope to hell you all are right about the pitfalls awaiting a McCain campaign. This has been a very intersting discussion.

[roguevalley]

62. I would never vote for McCain. He's a git.

[AP]

65. Incidentally, recent Marist poll showed Edwards was only Dem within MOE vs

McCain.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

66. Hey. You keep pusing Edwards...

...and I'll keep pushing Kerry. Great way to take advantage of an opening!