parents across nation who kids go to public school, please report

[seabeyond]

if your school, or any school in your area are no longer marking papers in red. giving grades. rewarding high achievement academic students because it will hurt other students feelings.

my father started talking about it just now. i told him it is the new talking point from the right to create liberal public school as bad. of course i couldnt get anything out cause he continually interrupted me. and told me he wasnt being political, why did i take this to politics.

i told him i think it is a political attack on public schooling

any observation, i appreciate.

texas, panhandle, they use red pen, kids get awards for academic achievement.

[The Straight Story]

1. Here is an article which may relate some:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-preportcards19may19,0,5023751.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

Parents slam Palm Beach County plan to end letter grades in elementary school

[Zookeeper]

4. After reading that article...

I will add that Minnesota elementary schools also give number grades (1,2,3). However, the article said that in Florida a "2" means, "less than a year behind grade level." That sounds very weird.

Here a "1" means performing less than expected for grade level. A "2" means performing as expected for grade level. And "3" means performing above grade level. That certainly makes more sense and is pretty straighforward.

[Zookeeper]

2. Minnesota public schools: they use red pen, they give grades,

they push kids to achieve academically and offer opportunities to compete academically.

I agree with you, this is yet another attempt to discredit public schools.

[seabeyond]

33. has to be isolated incidents, presented as an epidemic

my father quoted a handful of things he had read or heard of late. my brother is saying the same shit. gotta be going on at fox or something

i have seen a niece in kansas and louisianna, mine in texas, those here...........not seeing it

[Horse with no Name]

3. It's exactly opposite here

They breed competition into the kids in my school district. They start ranking them from the time they are in 3rd grade.
It turns ugly in high school as people try to outmanipulate each other to steal their rankings.
It's horrible and I absolutely hate it.

[LizW]

8. Same here, HwnN

Our school district is very good, but the competition is brutal. Letter grades are given from grade 3 to grade 8 and there are always academic rankings. Grades 9 through 12 get number grades and their is fierce competition.

[Horse with no Name]

10. It gets very personal here

One family in my town has actually done this to other families whose kids beat theirs academically:
Burnt down a house
Called CPS
Assaulted a student
Filed trumped up charges
Accused honor students of cheating

and a myriad of other things. It is brutal.

[LizW]

13. Holy crap!

Nothing like that here, yet, thank goodness.

My main concern is letting my kids (they're mostly A students, an occasional B) know that they are doing great and they should be proud of themselves even though they are never the ones who get all the academic honors and certificates on honors day.

[Horse with no Name]

28. I had never seen anything like this...ever

We moved here when my daughter was in 8th grade. She is very smart, but we had no idea of the competition.
When the rankings came out, my daughter was ranked #1.
After the #2 student's parent found out(child had been #1 always)--she stormed the school office. When she left, they had "found" a grade that hadn't been posted. Amazingly, it was "just enough" to push her daughter into #1 again,lol.
In all fairness, this child does NOTHING but study. She is ranked #1 in next year's senior class. A child that does NOTHING but study, does deserve it.
Can't begrude that at all.
I just hate to see it happen all over again next year, but will certainly welcome a summer sans competition.:)

[Sperk]

5. Reporting from Massachusetts (flaming liberal)....My kids get graded in

red, blue and/or black ( I suppose whatever color the teacher has handy). They receive grades four times a year. (all A's and B's in this household :-))


Not to brag but since you brought it up :-)
My son is graduating High School this year and has received two High Honors awards, a Summa Award and the Presidential Award for Academic Excellence (not his fault it's signed by a moran).

My daughter is still in Middle School so there are not yet formal award ceremonies...besides the occasional certificate here and there for one thing or another.

And all Honors and High Honor students get their names printed in the local weekly paper.

So there.

[seabeyond]

32. you are funny

think i will tell dad, in liberal mass....so there, lol lol.

thank you

[ulysses]

6. I usually use blue to mark papers.

Stigma and embarassment aren't the point, and that's the result of red ink to the point where my kids turn off and won't try any more. I most assuredly give grades and reward high achievement.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. Ditto

If they won't even look at their work after it's graded, we may as well not even give it back to them.

I haven't used red in years. I didn't like those red marks when I was a student. And there is research behind this. It isn't just a silly PC thing.

I use seasonal colors. Orange in Oct, green in March, etc. By May, I am using whatever colors are left in the marker can and haven't dried up.

I am getting tired of this topic. What about you?

[ulysses]

72. I'm getting more tired

of certain others...;-) I like the seasonal colors idea. Mind if I steal that?

[proud2BlibKansan]

85. What's mine is yours

If you need markers let me know. I found a ton of them cleaning out a closet today. Hundreds of colors.

[Smarmie Doofus]

7. In my son's class in NYC (3rd grade), academic...

excellence is still rewarded. However there are a number of half-assed, unproven methods that could loosely be termed "progressive" that are insisted upon by the Dept. of Education, NYC.
Chiefly, the "workshop model": teachers must use this; it involves replacing individual desks with tables or arranging the kids' desks in clusters. Aim is to eliminate "chalk and talk" authoritarianism and have the kids "teach each other".

It's horseshit, basically, with no real data to back-up its effectiveness. The middle class really doesn't care since their kids, especially after grade 5, in the vast majority of cases do not use the public school system. If it did, the WM would be gone.

Re. red pen: His teacher uses red pen ( I think). I teach special ed and use whatever I want. Usually red if I think it's useful. A decent teacher will communicate criticism in a constructive way. The color of the ink is unimportant... except to educational bureaucrats with lots of time on their hands.

[UdoKier]

11. Huh?

"The middle class really doesn't care since their kids, especially after grade 5, in the vast majority of cases do not use the public school system."


I'm pretty sure that 80% or more of kids go to public school. The people you're talking about are wealthy. As for NYC, I guess there aren't many middle class folks left there...

My kid's school (1st grade) here in SF also has the desks in the clusters, although I don't know if it's a requirement. There is a lot of touchy-feely stuff, like everybody sitting on the carpet when teacher reads a story, etc., but they had that when I was in 1st grade 30 years ago, even in Texas...


I don't see why new ideas and different tactics for teaching have to be politicized. Try everything, and discard what doesn't work.

Anyway, I'm very happy with my kid's public school. I can rest assured there is nobody trying to brainwash him with Jesus nonsense. Bush is not a popular man with the teachers or the parents at his school.

[Smarmie Doofus]

35. NYC is not typical, true. At least I hope so.

And it's not easy being an agnostic parent here... since the religious schools generally provide a superior product educationally speaking.

My son is back in PS after three yrs. in catholic. I'm glad to be rid of the religious propagandizing, etc. and I'm glad we made the move but the school system here engages in its own distinct brand of craziness. I can supply a myriad of examples but my current favorite is "Balanced Literacy" which is actually the precise opposite of "balanced". It's ELA without direct instruction in phonics, usage or grammar. It's reading comprehension... and that's it. Near as I can tell, anyway.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. Balanced Literacy is

wonderful. We have been using it for nearly 10 years and yes, it works.

I teach special ed. My kids are much better readers, writers and thinkers since we started using balanced literacy.

Here is a link to Q and A on balnaced literacy:
http://teacher.scholastic.com/professional/teachstrat/balanced.htm

And an exerpt
"Many parents want grammar taught 'the old-fashioned way.' What can I tell them?"

Use a whole-part-whole approach. Studies indicate that teaching grammar in isolation has little effect on students' oral and written language. Start by immersing students in real examples of whatever it is you want to teach. Talk about those passages, guiding students toward recognizing the aspects of language under study. Notice, for example, how the poet uses adjectival phrases to create pictures, or how the novelist conveys action through verbs. Introduce grammar terms and rules during the discussion. Also, encourage students to relate terms and rules to their own writing.

[ultraist]

21. Middle class income is 30k to 80k income per year

The vast majority of middle class parents cannot afford private school tuition.

Only 11% of children attend private school in the US.

[Smarmie Doofus]

30. In NYC, everything is inflated. 30k per year is poverty...

level. Outlandish property values and rents in Manhattan which radiate to the outlying areas are the chief culprit.

In NYC, esp Manhattan, the white middle class, in general, does not use the public school system for high school and junior high. Data is kept on the ethnic ( but not the economic) status of the students who attend public school in NYC and this is ( or at least USED to be) shown on the Dept of Education website. Check it out.

In the outer boroughs and 'burbs there are parochial schools that are not expensive. My son attended one through grade two. We paid 285 dollars per month. Catholic high schools are generally in the 5 to 6 K per annum vicinity. Many middle class folks, even non catholics, use these. The thinking is that the educational product is better than that offered by the pub school system.

In middle class areas of NYC, the % of middle class kids who attend private school is MUCH, MUCH higher than 11%... but don't ask me HOW much.

[ultraist]

47. That was a national average and nat'l incomes

NYC may well have a disproportionately high number of kids in private schools but only 18% of kids from incomes over 75K attend private schools, nationally.


NYC Median household income (dollars) $39,937 and the mean is 60k. http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=&geo_id=16000US3651000&_geoContext=01000US%7C04000US36%7C16000US3651000&_street=&_county=new+york+city&_cityTown=new+york+city&_state=04000US36&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=160


Where Do Wealthy Children Go to School?

The U.S. Census Bureau just released a report on the social and economic characteristics of students enrolled in the nation's schools in 1999. It turns out that of the 49.5 million youngsters in grades K-12, 9.3 million (19 percent) came from families with annual incomes of $75,000 or more. Of the 9.3 million, 7.7 million children, or 83 percent, attended public schools, and 1.6 million, or 17 percent, attended private schools.

[Dorian Gray]

52. I think PaulHo is right...

At least in my case. Anecdotally, I do not know one person who grew up in New York City and went to public school. (Except for my sister in law, who went to Laguardia Performing Arts High School, which is slightly different.) Of course, I know quite a few people in NYC, as I live here now. Most went to Catholic school when growing up. It is much cheaper than the private schools in Manhattan.

All of those people are from all five boroughs and were working class. I am not talking about wealthy Manhattanites who send their kids to Loyola, Marymount, Nightingale, or any of the other top-tiered schools.

[UdoKier]

9. Who the hell pays attention to what color they use?

I don't think it's a liberal thing per se, just something catching on with teachers who want to use a softer touch in grading.

I personally don't think it makes a damn bit of difference what color it is.

[TBreeze]

12. My son's elementary school (in Ohio)

They don't give out letter grades until 3rd grade. Before that they have plus, minus, or check. And they do use red pens to grade sometimes. I've seen black a lot recently too. I think it's just whatever pen or marker is within reach at the time. I really don't think they're using any specific color, or avoiding any color. They have honor roll, and also something called the A-team for kids that get all As. Their names are printed in the school newsletter. I think they're encouraging to all the children, but certainly aren't afraid of praising those that are doing well.

[seabeyond]

36. our teachers dont always grab red, i htink for the reason you state

they are just as likely to grade in red. that is so not a to do.

thanks

[Nikki Stone 1]

14. Our school system gives both academic and participation grades

The academic grade is supposed to accurately reflect the student's work while the two participation grades indicate effort and attendance. A student could get an AEE, meaning A academic grade, and excellent attendance and effort. The student could also get an ASU, A academic grade, Satisfactory attendance but Unsatisfactory behavior--acts up in class for example. Some bright but troubled kids could end up with an ASU.

Of course, sadly, kids could get,

ASS---A academics, Satisfactory attendance and effort.
BSS--B academic, (ditto above)

or my least favorite

FUU--F academics and unsatisfactory attendance and effort.


As far as grading essays, I use glitter markers in blues, pinks, reds and greens. It's easier for the kids to see my comments that way.

[seabeyond]

37. thats an interesting system

bet you like the sparklies too, wink. thanks

[LibDemAlways]

15. My daughter attends a "Blue Ribbon"

public middle school in Southern California. Grading varies from teacher to teacher. Some nitpick over every little thing. Others look at the bigger picture. Kids earn points for everything from turning in their signed weekly progress notes to completing complicated projects that require a lot of parent "help." (wink, wink)

The grading scale is very traditional - 90 - 100 A, 80-89 B, etc.

My only beef is with PE. They earn points depending on how fast they can run the mile - which I think is ridiculous. Personally, I think PE should be pass-fail. If you put forth your best effort, you pass. Period.

[Nikki Stone 1]

17. I agree with you on PE

In fact some LA schools actually have weight machines and treadmills where students can track their own progress and are graded based on the progress they make, not on how they compare to other students. I think this is the right direction for PE.

[LibDemAlways]

22. Could not agree more.

At my daughter's school if a sixth grade girl runs the mile in anything over 10 minutes, 30 seconds, she gets a D. Some days the temperature is close to 90 in the afternoon when my daughter has PE. I genuinely worry about sunstroke. Some days, they even run a mile and a half! Insane.

[Nikki Stone 1]

24. They shouldn't be running in 90 degree heat

What district are you in?

[LibDemAlways]

25. I know. It's a small

district (3 elem, 1 middle, 1 hs) called Oak Park Unified. "Award winning" and basically good, but they go overboard on the running in PE. I've written several notes getting my daughter excused from running in the heat, but they limit you to 3 per quarter without a doctor's note.

[seabeyond]

38. a lot of parent "help." (wink, wink)

wink wink, i hear you, lol lol

[LibDemAlways]

63. I'm sure you get my drift.

"Mom, I have to write a 13 part journal based on this book we're reading about these people who go on a whale watch expedition. I also have to include a different "artifact" from their journey with each journal entry."

Oh, sure, honey. That sounds like something a sixth grader can do. I'm sure you have all sorts of clever and creative ideas based on your many years of life experience.

"Mom, in math we have to design and build a model home. We need a theme - beach house, cottage, etc. And we have to include blueprints and design specifications."

Piece of cake, honey. You go work on it while I make dinner. I'm sure there's some architecture software somewhere on the computer. Go reference it and I'm sure you'll whip out a house in no time.

"Mom, I have to write an illustrated condensed version of Ulysses' Voyage for English class. It's 16 chapters long."

Well, it's a good thing you know how to take complex material and pare it down to the essentials. And drawing Scylla and Charybdis should be a snap, not to mention Penelope, Circe, and Tiresias. When are they going to start giving you difficult work at that school?

(These are actual assignments my 6th grader had this year. Don't know how kids manage whose parents are unwilling or unable to become actively involved. I wish we could return to the days when kids were given assignments they could feel comfortable and confident doing by themselves!)

[seabeyond]

66. you are funny

mine was a salt map of hungary last week. had 12 year old niece do it while i was on computer, because by gosh, time she started doing it herself without my help. so forget she measured it wrong and i had to make a new batch. we have a big kitchen, was on all parts of the floor, every counter and cabinets all around the kitchen. walked into a kitchen of white.

my niece is in 6th grade too. the big thing for me with her and my fourth grader was teaching them how to do a term paper. i am surprised how much she didnt know.

but those other children are probably more in line to what the teacher expected. i worked on son with his term paper, teacher was amazed. the trick, let them do really, just guide. i keep wanting to bring it to my expectations and have to remind myself to let it go, is his project.

[SmokingJacket]

16. Back in the 70s, when I was in elementary school,

there were no grades. I didn't get a letter grade until 6th grade. But they marked papers in red only.

When I was a teacher, I gave grades and was pretty tough. But I used whatever marker at hand to mark papers.

My son doesn't get grades; his teacher hardly ever marks papers. But he is smarter than I was, the kids in general are brighter, and his teacher is great.

It all depends on the teacher, IMHO. Good teacher = good education, no matter what the method.

[seabeyond]

39. i dont care that much about grades

for different reasons. my son does so much learning in home. beyond what is required for his age. he could put in a lot more effort in school, and i dont mess with it.

i make a big deal out of the tak tests, but that is more because i tell him his responsibility to the schol as whole, and those students that have a tougher time with academics than him. he needs to do his best to help raise the school grade. all working together.

what school does your child go to that there is not grades?

[SmokingJacket]

80. Normal public school in a very liberal area.

Which also happens to be a college town, so there are many academically minded families here.

The teachers write out long narrative reports for each kid instead of letter grades. Knowing that my child "reads well but much too fast, skipping over the words he doesn't know, which makes his comprehension suffer," tells me SO much more than "B."

There's nothing more stupid than giving a 1st grader a "D" in math, say: now the kid is used to doing badly and probably believes he's dumb, when probably all it really means is that he can't sit still for long and his parents are too busy to work with him at home.

[Coexist]

18. Here in Pasco County Florida middle school and up get A, B, C

and there are academic awards based soley on merit.

In Elementary school, here they get On Grade Level, Above Grade Level and Below Grade Level letter grades (B, S or E).

They give out academic awards to all Kindergarten and first grade children, but in the upper grades they are merit only.

[seabeyond]

40. from an article above, it seems they do this thruout florida

why

sssh (i didnt read the article, lol, got behind in thread with dinner, showers, cleaning a gerbil cage, lol)

[SW FL Dem]

56. My kid got Letter grades in Elem in FL

They start in 3rd grade here in Collier County. The only exception in elem school is for Art, Music and PE where the kids get a grade of O (Outstanding), S (Satisfactory), N (Needs Improvement) or U (Unsatisfactory).

[eissa]

19. I love my kids' public elementary school

It's one of the best in our county. Some teachers use red ink and some don't, they do give out achievement awards (my son received one for reading), and bad grades as well (same son got a "D" on his most recent report card in math). I've enjoyed every teacher they've had, and I think the school administrators have been great, even when my kids have not! Tell your dad to stop listening to Hannity!

[seabeyond]

43. i did private for 6 years

until nov, after election, lol.

i am tired of people missin with these schools and teachers. i have had a wonderful experience with our "poor" school. the teachers have been good, the principle is so hands on. they are in an area where students are put in, pulled out all year long. i am amazed how well they do with it.

[insane_cratic_gal]

20. Public school here

and my daughter is in first grade

they use red pen, they even will x a paper or star it.. Or sticker it just like they use to.
they have a contest for the kids spelling bees "challenge Kids" if they get 100 and the challenge correct

they don't give grades per say but progress report Secure, developing, ect. (think it's a confidence issue and it is their first year so I agree with it)

they do give achievement awards and even a lollipop for completing a assigned reading sheet! Oh and the most recent, they had Icecream part for the kids because combined they read for 3000 mins. My daughter came home and read for a half and hour every day, it was wonderful. She's still doing it because she found she liked it.

So I am not see anything "liberal" or pandering of children.

Isn't this crap a huge lie? Wasn't there some push from the right Hoping to shut down public schools and force kids into home school? Or bible school?
Basically don't want to pay any federal money for kids any longer is my opinion. If they won't pay for health insurance, I'm sure they give even less attention to our children's intelligence.

[seabeyond]

44. my oldest didnt even look at a report card til after second grade

just wasnt a big deal and he didnt think of it. i would get it, was good, and i would send it back. my younger son is in first grade, only cause he sees his brother now look.

that is what we had talked on a thread a month ago. jon stewart had a woman on talking how we are wussifying our kids. and we parents werent seeing it in our schools. yes i think it is an agenda, to go after the schools.

[judy from nj]

23. That is just nonsense

I have two children who go to public school. None of this is true. In fact I would say that the biggest problem in our public school is that they pay most attention to the high achievers - honors courses, AP courses, and don't do all they can for the average student. Sometimes all an ordinary student needs is a good teacher and some individual attention.

[LibDemAlways]

26. Welcome to DU, Judy.

You'll like it here. I totally agree re. the emphasis on honors and the high achievers. I live in a small district with many affluent families, and everyone wants to think their child is "gifted" and belongs in the honors group.

Last week a note came home indicating the 6th graders were being tested to see which ones qualify to take Algebra in 7th grade. I wrote back saying, "Don't bother testing my daughter. I wouldn't put her in Algebra in 7th grade under any circumstances." They push and push and push, and the parents are all for it.

I just want my kid to be a happy, relatively unstressed adolescent.

[judy from nj]

41. They leave them with nothing to take as Seniors

Here they teach algebra to everyone in 9th, Biology in 9th, Chemistry in 10th, and Physics in 11th. Only about half the students can handle it. Then when they are seniors, there is nothing left to take. I hate the pushing.

[seabeyond]

45. i agree with you

you may have a point, though my kids are so young 1st and 4th i am not seeing it yet

[loudestchick]

27. My kids all attend a public Montessori school. There aren't any grades

per se. The progress reports are complicated and include the skill sets that apply to either children's house (P-3 thru K), lower elementary (1-3) in each skill set they can recieve an S(elf-challenging) P(rogressing) I(ntroduced) or H(aving difficulty)

It changes for upper elementary they recieve either a +, - or check for each skill in a set and an overall number for subject area 1-3. The Montessori Method doesn't include testing but assignments are graded and given 1, 2, or 3. My 4th level student's teacher uses a green pen (it's her favorite color).

[seabeyond]

46. i have never heard of a public mont

that is interesting. thanks

[loudestchick]

78. The Kansas City, Missouri Public School System has 3. The start up costs

(which are considerable) were paid for with de-segregation dollars. Those dollars are gone and now the district is facing a fiscal crisis. The montessori schools are very successful, but we are also an expensive program and may fall to the budget cutters at some point.

Our parents are supportive and have already fought several battles against the administration to keep the program.

[seabeyond]

81. isnt this interesting

thanks for sharing. not bad at all listening to people all over nation about their school system. good stuff

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. Hey loudest

Have you heard the rumors about our superintendent? Apparently he is job hunting.

[loudestchick]

92. Really? No, I hadn't heard that. But it's not a bad move on his part.

I wouldn't want to be in charge when this district gets taken over by Blunt's state gov. Things are going to be UG-LY.

Frank Vincent has resigned as principal at Faxon. I hate the man, but he's not dumb. He knows what's in the wind.

We're looking to lose upwards of 10% of our population at Holliday to University Academy's shiny new building. It doesn't look good.

On an "up" note, my 4th grader got her latest SAT9's back...


drumroll


...99th percentile and HS level in all subjects. Montessori has been sooooo good for her.

[progressivebydesign]

29. Still grades.. still honor students.. still all awards here in our town nt

[nonconformist]

31. Grades and academic achievement awards here

And for that I'm glad.

[lonestarnot]

34. Same thing here... red ink... rewards (I give)...awards they give....

[BamaGirl]

42. Haven't seen any of that here

My kids just finished 2nd and 3rd grade yesterday. For progress reports they get a number average and report cards letter grades. They both got certificates for honor roll and high averages in AR, and the grading was in red or blue. My biggest complaint is that there were definitely kids in my oldest gifted class that really didn't belong there. My kid is in the class because she needs the extra challenge (which frankly to me just looks like busy work), but there were a few who seemed to be there because their parents like the status. What's the freaking point of having it then?

What age are kids generally starting to change classes now? This year my 3rd grader changed class for english (done in tested ability groups) and had a sub-group in her regular class for math. Next year they are changing for reading and math. Our school seems most interested in test results.

[seabeyond]

50. that was a big issue in the private school

fourth grade they had my son going to different classes different teachers. he is obtuse, and distractable, and gets confused easily. he needs steady structure. was so hard for him. never knew where or what he was suppose to do. but even in public school he went to science teacher, then music and pe. wasnt as hard. not as many changes

[MrSandman]

48. Our school is retaining first graders...

and the #1 reason it is in the student's best interest? Class is too large.

[senseandsensibility]

49. Limppig told his listeners in the eighties

that the public schools don't teach spelling anymore. My right wing parents bought it hook, line, and sinker, although their own daughter, a teacher, told them otherwise.

[seabeyond]

51. oh no, that is horrible

wow

i bet limbaugh went of the new english started in calif. what, it wasnt english anymore, lanuguage or something. younger grades they didnt correct the spelling, wanted kids to just put down an idea on paper, not worried about spelling. i didnt like that.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. Judging from my experience on the college level

the righties have a history of taking isolated incidents and making them seem like the norm.

So if one ass-covering administrator makes a stupid decision, Rush and company will rave about it as if that stupid decision is the norm for all schools..

[KaliTracy]

61. There was just a book published about this (see post #55) -- one of

the Authors was on the Daily Show about a month ago.

edit:wrong #

:blush:

[SW FL Dem]

54. My kid attends public school

His papers are marked in red and the school spends WAY too much time, money and attention on the high achievers. They get more than the low performing students in the poorer schools. But then, this is Florida!

[KaliTracy]

55. This issue brought out by book called: One Nation Under Therapy : How the

Helping Culture Is Eroding Self-Reliance by Christina Hoff Sommers, Sally Satel

But the bigger question is What is Education For and How is Learning Measured? Is it by a grade? Is it by a test? Is it by how many questions are answered on Jeopardy? Is it by the intesity one takes to trying to master that piano piece, or that math problem that isn't homework, or that poem?

Many, many students do just fine with traditional methods, including getting their papers marked up -- they just "try harder" next time. Others -- well, this doesn't work so well for them, and they end up getting lost in the shuffle -- not making many moves -- trying not to get noticed, not taking the risks needed in order to continue the learning cycle.

I know how very important grades are to people. How important achievement is to them. They need to see some Outward sign to know something is happening on the inside. Well, sometimes what is happening on the inside is more important than the grade on the paper. I happen to like Alfie Kohn and his take on Testing, Grades, Achievement (perhaps because they are right on par with how I feel about it).

http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/rewardarticles.htm

Articles include:
Articles About Rewards

* "Newt Gingrich's Reading Plan," Education Week, April 19, 1995
* "Punished by Rewards?: A Conversation with Alfie Kohn," Educational Leadership, Sept. 1995
* "The Risks of Rewards," ERIC Digest, December 1994
* "Five Reasons to Stop Saying 'Good Job!'", Young Children, September 2001


When I taught (English) I made my comments on post-it notes for the high school students, I never wrote on their papers and I can't tell you how many students appreciated this. When I taught Freshman English at the college level I typed comments on the computer. Again, I was told countless times how much students appreciated this -- they felt I respected their work, and their time. I used a Rubric in both levels to grade papers -- which I prefer if forced to grade. I would prefer to see a piece of writing as something in-process -- especially if there is only 9 weeks to a quarter.

edit:clarity

[seabeyond]

58. my son would be perfectly happy

sittin under a tree all day reading from subject to subject. he is a self teacher. doesnt do well with others trying to teach him. i gave up years ago. reading, bicycle, left it to him. and he always taught himself, well before his time

interesting your grading technique. i like, though i wasnt bothered with writing on paper, i like your way better.

[KaliTracy]

62. thank you. my son (though not quite of reading age yet) has already

shown us his "learning style" which is definitely more independent based (didn't like doing the same thing as everyone else -- even as a 3 yr old in pre-school). He is in a Montessori Pre-school this year, and he is flourishing and will be going there next year for Kindergarten.

While there are a couple of Public Montessori many miles away (and dependent on "lottery" system to get in), they are still tied to the State Proficiency Tests. I quit teaching because of the tests, and wanted to find something different -- so I have, this school goes pre school to 8th grade.

Learning is a highly individual process, and we all learn in different ways, for different reasons. While I support public schools, there are many things that are happening in them (that are not brought on by educators, or even administrators) that I just don't agree with.



http://stophighstakestests.org

[KaliTracy]

57. another view on competition...

Stick Boy

If you were a part of my family,
my father would call you stick boy,
‘cause you, you’re so skinny...
one child began to tell the other child
during a friendly feast of pizza
and pop celebrating the end of a
stellar soccer season or some such
sporting event.

I look down trying to ascertain
why such a sentiment was stated
and see two boys, about the same
height, about the same width,
and the boy spoken to writhes
his legs together, clutching tight
not wanting to let go.

In the background, television commercials
for Nike and presidential candidates tell
us what to think, what to choose,
which shoes will help you jump to the moon,
which man will make our nation stronger.

If you were a part of my family
my father would call you stick boy.

They tell us competition will make
our schools mightier, would make
more leaders and less followers.
But here, in a pizza parlor, where
nothing should be gained or lost
but a few pounds, a child learns
first hand, the feeling of inadequacy.

tracy lynn
Nov. 1, 1996

[bleedingheart]

59. Teachers use red to grade tests here in PA

and the smart ones are put in special classes for the gifted...and the slow kids are put in classes to try and get them to excel...

[fortyfeetunder]

60. Elementary schools, Seattle suburb

The teachers I know uses different colors of pens, so it can be a rainbow for a bunch of primary graders. I'd think using red pen all of the time would be boring, eh? There is a gifted program in the school.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. I don't use red

but I give awards.

[seabeyond]

67. why dont you use red,

just curious

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. Research

Visual stimulation is important. Red turns kids off. I use it when I am teaching to draw attention to important points. But not for correcting papers.

I know it sounds silly. Not every teacher agrees with me. But many do.

[seabeyond]

70. hey works for me

sounds interesting not silly and i am not opposed to creative ideas to bolster confidence in a kid or better get attention that is for sure

i am not sure where the red ink to do started and what it is all about. that red signifies mistakes? i dont know. i see little difference using a blue or red to mark an error on a paper. other than what you are suggesting. but to not use red cause can hurt feelings, that is silly. blue would hurt feeling too if an f was written in blue

[ulysses]

71. it's the long-term association with the color.

Red has been used forever in schools, and the immediate association (especially with my kids, who are low achieving and don't have a lot of self-confidence in academics) is "HEY, LOSER, YOU FUCKED UP AGAIN!" For that same reason, I mark correct answers with a check but instead of putting a huge "X" on incorrect answers, I underline where they went wrong and we discuss it. Otherwise, they get frustrated and any chance of making headway is stopped for the time being.

[seabeyond]

73. i may not

agree but......i say yea for you and if you were my kids teacher i would totally back and support you on that. i also dont have kids that continually get poor grades. so when they get a lot of red marks, i think it is good for them to see clearly and feel the pain of all their errors. they dont need to get bad papers and if they do it is generally because they werent paying attention or did sloppy work. so a little bit of pain in seeing it generally gets them to focus for a period again and not get another of those papers.

anyway it sounds to be your own personal choice to do this with your students and not a school policy. and listening to your thought process with your students, i think they are lucky to get you as a teacher. sittin here looking out the window, thinking of the child that does get poor grades, i could visualize how they would just put a paper down all red, opposed to having a paper that a teacher has marked with the intent to help child understand errors. good for you

[ulysses]

74. right - the ratio of carrot to stick

needs to vary depending on the child. :)

[seabeyond]

75. this is why i am so sensitive

and get so bothered with the dumping on the schools and teacher. yes, like a parent hopefully individually addresses the children instead of handing out equally and the same, the teacher that is able and willing to individually address the child is a gift. a huge ass gift. to society and to child and to child family. and it is tons more work. so yea for you

[ulysses]

76. another special ed teacher in my school

said something early in the year that I thought was pretty sharp.

"Fairness isn't everyone getting the same thing, it's everyone getting what he or she needs."

[seabeyond]

77. so true

i like. i have two boys so different. that was clearly given to me as a message having these boys. yes

thank you

[proud2BlibKansan]

91. I love that expression

must be a special special ed saying.

[Mizmoon]

79. Private school: Pay more, get less

that's the motto of moms around here.

Personally, I don't care about my kids grades on whit. They are all bright, excellent readers and writers, have excellent general knowledge, etc. School is about conforming and I won't force them to be conformists.

Before someone starts screaming about how wrong I am I will tell you that the valedictorian of my HS class threw himself off of a bridge at Cornell University because he just couldn't take the pressure anymore. Fuck that. Happiness truly is paramount in this life.

[seabeyond]

87. i wouldnt scream at you,.....and

i dont think i could even come close to tell you how you are suppose to be mama. i wouldnt do it.

grades arent the thing for me. my child gets easy a's and b's and puts little effort in it. i would like to see some of that "hard work".

[warrens]

82. Chicago public schools...red pens, academic awards

And my kid's school is about as liberal as it gets. Walter Payton Prep, one of the best high schools in Illinois. And yes, it is a public school.

[seabeyond]

88. hey, it was chicago my father was mouthing about

hm, i will let him know, lol

[triguy46]

83. Still red as of last night

That said, the greater issue may be the use of "Individualized Education Plans" in which a student with probs gets accomodations, (not ada), to "help" them. The counselors have much leeway to work with parents on these. Some of the requests are things like "My childs esteem is hurt if he gets anything less than a B. he should be given and A or B regardless of his work." OR "He really doesn't like to read. Can't he do a report on a TV show?"

Parents are the # 1 prob; Administrators #2; Unqualified/unmotivated teachers #3;

[seabeyond]

89. Parents are the # 1 prob;

i agree

[Jimbo S]

84. Madison, WI public H.S. : no valedictorian award eom

[elehhhhna]

90. Sugar Land Tx :red pens & awards galore.