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pasadenademocrat Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 07:32 PM
Original message
Howie Fineman's ridiculous piece on Dean
http://www.msnbc.com/news/937672.asp?0ql=c8p


Notice the ridiculous "feel your pain" headline.

Fineman's a whore!!!!
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ChrisNYC Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. I didn't think it was bad
I never knew anything about his brother, so I actually found it interesting. (Although I can see the repukes trying to use it against him ala Roger Clinton)
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. His brother? The one who was killed in Cambodia?
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Why was he in Cambodia?
?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. We honestly have no idea
The article says that he may well have gone to see Cambodia due to his opposition to VietNam. He may have been on the way to Nepal which was a common destination for hippies to go. He was eventually listed as POW/MIA which leads one to believe he may have eventually become a spy but again no one really knows. That would have to be the worst. If it was a disease or an accident or something like that it might be more bearable.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm not going to read it because I know how howie writes..
he hates anything that doesn't suck up to bush.
I don't feel like getting mad right now!



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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. and you hate anything that doesn't suck up to Dean
what's the difference really? If I critisize Dean or his cadre or his electability or lack thereof, it makes me a whore? Uninformed? confused?

How about talking about a specific example of anything anti-journalistic or untruthful in the article

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Friar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. it's not that
The media have already started their attacks on Dean as a potential front runner. Dean isn't a perfect candidate by any means and I don't think we're worried about criticism among our ranks.

No one thinks we should "suck up" to Dean. But if he becomes the Democratic candidate we need to support him fully. ABB, as we say.

Personally, I prefer Edwards. I think he's a modern day JFK, but I'll support anyone against the BFEE.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I'm a Kerry guy.....
do you really think I care what that Bush sycophant thinks about any of our candidates?
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haymaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Don't tell me you are defending the writing
of Howard "The Duck" Fineman, MWO's Media Whore of the Year 2001.

Pulease! Even posting his tripe is suspect to me, much less giving it credence and attacking others who already know Fineman is a fuckin' kiss-ass, boot-licking, brown-nosing whore. (last line from the Office of Redundancy Office)

See ya later.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Agree Zidzi! Tune Out"Howie the Whore" ..read Eric Alterman
Edited on Sun Jul-13-03 09:59 PM by KoKo01
about Howie..........Both Howies! He and Issikoff are a pair............



He's NOT to be trusted............and I wouldn't believe anything he said about anyone without independent verification.
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Beacho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Fineman better stay in his litlle enclave
...in the beltway. If I ever caught him in my 'hood, I'd give him an Atomic Wedgie that he would not forget too soon!
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Sagan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. I'd give him the dreaded "Rear Admiral" wedgie...

It's nothing less than he deserves..
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Smears him and his father primarily.
Edited on Sun Jul-13-03 07:56 PM by hedda_foil
It's long and really smears him by a series of semantic juxtapositions and innuendoes. He's got Dean crying openly about his brother and smears him about that, implying that he loses it too easily and is a victim of ongoing surivor's guilt, while at the same time acknowledging that he had grief counseling at the time. Then he tries to smear Dean for that. Snidely implies that he's got psych problems. Beats up on his father for being really tough (4 boys -- hello?), hits him on temper with no evidence for anything out of the ordinary.

And then there's this. Notice how Fineman juxtaposes a really vicious statement about Dean's father's flunking out of school and being a virtual alcoholic with Dean himself ... intentionally trying to conflate the two men. Charming. Really charming. This fries my fish!

<snip>

EERIE SIMILARITIES
Ironically, the roots and rising of one Howard Brush Dean III bear an eerie similarity to those of one George Walker Bush: Mayflowering family trees, early industrial-era money, family compounds near Atlantic waters, prep schools and a party-hearty life at Yale (Bush ’68, Dean ’71). The birthright of such an upbringing is confidence in social position and a sense of license to say anything to anyone at any time—without warning, restraint or evident regret. Dean insists that “everyone in our family is totally unpretentious,” and so they were, and are. But he is brusque by nature, and if he can seem bumptious to the press at times, why not? The Deans (or, more specifically, the Hunting clan, descended of whaling captains) took up residence in Sag Harbor—now a pricey reach of eastern Long Island—three centuries before media elites began networking there.

His four obstreperous sons (Howard is the eldest) worshiped him—and feared him. “He was our role model,” says Howard. “He was also a micromanager.” That meant raising hell in defiance of Dad whenever possible and making up for any deficiency by marching through life straight ahead. So “Howie” Dean pumped iron furiously at St. George’s Episcopal School in Newport, R.I., playing guard and linebacker on the football team—positions normally reserved for bigger boys. He was wrestling captain in his senior year, a master of the quick pin. At Yale he trod the path of his father, who flunked out twice and bragged about his social exploits when he showed his son around the campus. Howie was a hard drinker and partier, too. “But it was harder to flunk out in my time,” he says. Like George W. Bush, Dean quit drinking cold turkey. He did so in 1981, when he was 32, one week after marrying Judith Steinberg in a Manhattan hotel. “I didn’t like the way I behaved when I drank,” he says.

PERSONAL POWER
Dean wasn’t deeply interested in politics per se, but rather, it seems, in power of a personal kind. He was a senior prefect at St. George’s. At Yale, he thought about teaching or medicine, which put the fate of others in the practitioner’s hands. “I have always wanted to change the world in some way,” he says matter-of-factly. “It’s very deep.” Indeed, it took a while for it to surface. After a post-college year skiing in Aspen, Dean returned to New York in 1972 to become the next (fourth) Dean—stretching back to Herbert Hollingshead Dean, a founder of Smith Barney—to be an investment banker.
He hated it. Business was bad. (There was an Arab oil embargo on.) Dean missed the country life of hockey on the pond and duck on the table that he’d grown up with (at least on weekends) in the big house in eastern Long Island. “I took my father to dinner, fed him three martinis and told him I wanted to go to medical school,” Dean recalls. He was 25—too late for the “micromanager” to protest. He
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. Fineman has been writing about Dean regularly, and most of it
Edited on Sun Jul-13-03 08:54 PM by janx
hasn't been bad at all. I have mixed reactions to this one. First of all, the right wingers are going to have a heyday with it; they'll be spinning on their stools with glee because it contains some melodrama and mentions some personal things about Dean that some will find unattractive. On the other hand, it's best for the personal (I think) to come out up front. (Remember Chimpy's DUI information at the last minute?) There's nothing awful to me in the article; I find it interesting, although Fineman's melodrama leaves a lot to be desired.

So while it may be a negative initially, it's ultimately a positive.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. How bad could his grades have been?
He got into med school based on them. Even in 1972 people didn't just get into med school to get out of VietNam. Dean's dad didn't go to Dean's med school (Columbia if I am not mistaken). That is a very good med school BTW. Let's see the transcrips Howie. Let's see his GPA Howie. Wanna bet it was higher than Bush (who couldn't get into U of T Law)?
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I thought Howard Dean went to Albert Einstein med school.

Seems I've read that more than once.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You're right, he went to Albert Einstein.
He went to Albert Einstein College of Medicine, in Long Island NY, after he tried the family business...Bush couldn't get into law or med school if his life depended on it.

He met Judy there--I think she's from the area, at any rate she was also a student.
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SEAburb Donating Member (985 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-13-03 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. looks like Fineman is planting seeds
he hopes will grow and engulf Dean if he wins the Dem nomination.
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