How much faith do you have in the free-market, capitalist system?

[kentuck]

Looking at all the big businesses that are in trouble or have gone bankrupt or have been bailed out by the government - us the taxpayers - just how stable is the "free-market" system? When I hear Democrats like Stenholm come on C-SPAN and preach about privatization of the Social Security system, I wonder how Democrats can have such blind faith in the markets after all we have experienced in the country.

[Triana]

1. Not a whole lot...

...I can't say I'm very damn impressed with it.

[bicentennial_baby]

2. None whatsoever

It has proven itself to be an unsustainable experiment, wholly destructive to both social and natural systems on the planet.

[atommom]

3. None. The mighty free-market capitalist society is a myth.

In the real world, human greed and other failings make unfettered capitalism a bad idea, IMHO. I think there does need to be some **ethical** government intervention from time to time, for the protection of everyone involved.

[tk2kewl]

4. It cannot be completely unrestrained. With good regulation,

progressive taxes, and government subsidies for science and technology that benefits humanity, it is the best system available.

[Protagoras]

28. yep...that "good regulation"

being the key. Every competitive event needs rules and a playing field with boundaries.

I always love hearing people talking about Free Market...but always forgetting about that "level playing field" that is the only thing that can keep it going.

[tom_paine]

33. Well said. And I agree.

:thumbsup:

[havocmom]

5. It does not exist. When businesses can get laws/policy written for and by

themselves, it is NOT a free market. If "Free Market" actually existed, most CEOs would be begging on street corners instead of glad handing in the halls of government.

[Zenlitened]

8. Bingo. Absolutely right on. - n/t

[stopbush]

25. Bingo again! n/t

[toddaa]

6. Distinguishing a true free market from this capitalism

Once you deem a corporation as having the same rights as an individual, you no longer have a free market. Instead, you have a fascist state in which big business and big government crush the individual.

[Zenlitened]

7. What free-market capitalism?

That's only for the little guys and gals, who subsidize the CEO class.

[madmom]

9. I have absolutely no faith in ...

the free market system without massive control by we the people.Without it we will be ruled by elitists.

[raccoon]

10. None

Unrelgulated and unrestrained, it produces a Dickensian society with extremes of rich and poor. Periodic economic depressions too.

The way it is in this country, it's socialism for the rich, capitalism (read: you're on your own) for the non-rich.

[Fovea]

11. Less than zero

If laisser faire capitalism works,explain

Enron, MCI, Southern Crossing, Halliburton,
Bechtel, KBR, etc.

Do you really want a private company providing
drinking water? Education? Look what a stellar job they have done
securing the public health.

No, mixed public/private societies reflect both human needs, and sustainable economic entities. The US is overdue for a serious overhaul. It should begin by redistributing about 50% of America's idle wealth downward. That would leave the rich to be rich, just not obscenely rich.

Otherwise there is no gated community, or private security that will save the children of todays robber barons from bloody revolution.

[Psephos]

12. Reminds me of Churchill's statement regarding democracy

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others."

We don't have much of a free market system these days anymore. One bright ray is that digital technology is proving to be a democratizer, at least to those who learn how to use it. I suspect it will continue to have an impact on economic structures as well, as we move beyond the Information Economy into the Conceptual Economy - the Next Big Thing(TM).

Yeah, the world sux...* is a douche...Murcans are fat sheep...but so what. The sun is out today and I'm going for a run along the river. Politics is not as important as we make it. The world seems to have survived so far. They flew kites in Iraq under Saddam.

Life is what you make it. "The mind is its own place and can make a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven." - Shakespeare

Ramble mode off.

Peace.

[seabeyond]

13. my father a lifetime business man

where he excelled. both in large corporations and small business owner. i said he was a capitalist, and he denied. it was a denial of a woman saying she is not a feminist. or a democrat staying away from the word liberal

he refused it. i said what,......that is not necessarily a bad thing. there is a higher in capitalism.

he has defined it as selfish and greedy

i told him maybe i have to look up in dictionary, but.....

i have always seen my father as a capitalist, in the pure sense. he took care of the company, he took care of the employees he took care of the customers. it was a win for all. the only way my father would play the game

and that is what we have to move back to. check history, there is that pendulum swing in this. power shifts, from employer to employee to customer.

thought it was interesting

[bpilgrim]

14. how will they 'manage' the PEAK OIL CRISIS?!?

and increased competition for 'REQUIRED' resources beginning with China?

if Iraq & Afghanistan is ANY indication we are FUCKED.

i remember the M$MW cheer-leading the GREAT gains we would make in the run up to the war and how they were ALL MISERABLY WRONG.

Has that chastised the M$MWs, tempered their RADICAL OPINIONS... not ONE BIT. They are as puffed up and ARROGANT as any gang of popinjays.

people Iraq & Afghanistan is just a tiny taste of thinks to come on the course big-biz & their whores got us on.

get your crash helmets on :nuke:

peace

[blindpig]

15. none, it's killing the planet

Socialism may not be everyone's cup of tea but it is a survivial plan. Of course, we've yet to figure out how to do it right, but considering the entrenched interest and fanatical opposition of the ruling class that's not so suprising. I believe we have to get it right or our civilization is history. If there's any history after us.

[undergroundpanther]

16. zilch

captalism has the seeds of it's own ruin.As competition makes things grow a few trounce competition and things get unfair and entrenched.. it's slow plutocracy. Only if corporations are on a short leash beholden to the public, and small business is the rule and no monopolies allowed it's better,But a mixed economy is required.Eternal growth however is not sustainable it is cancer it kills it's host..This cancer effect is also in wall street,this is what is happening to our Earth and US that ias why we are losing it we cannot sustain this growth.Corporations and empires are cancers they COLONIZE and grow bigger amd they make us all sick.

[Double T]

17. Zero Faith!

We have allowed our elected officials at the federal and state level to give large corporations a pass for everything at the expense of the people. Not until we abolish the legalized bribery that corporations pay to our elected officials who enact laws that allow corporations to act irresponsibly will we truly begin to have a "fair market" system.

[cyclezealot]

18. Should we not have learned in the 1920's.

It was rigged then, even our high school text books acknowlege that...Deregulation is a means to let business conduct whatever unethical business practices they choose...
When the anti-trust laws became passe' in the Reagan Administration it immediately resulted in the multi-billion Dollar bailouts from the Savings and Loan scandals of that era...Since , business ethics have gone to hell....The system could be controlled to cause business to do good for society and themselves..But with them having the rights of the individual yet not the responsibility, then, business ethics is oxymoron.

[Tux]

19. I don't trust it

Free trade is too easily manipulated favor of corporations and the extremely wealthy. It can create a caste system, destroy the middle class, and force working class people to work more to maintain their economic class. I prefer some controls so corporations won't form monoplies, make dangerous and cheap crap, and allows people to work out of poverty to middle class or better yet, upper class.

[Igel]

20. It's not a free market if failing businesses are bailed out by the

government, now is it?

If businesses knew they'd go belly up if they failed, they just might do things a bit differently.

If boards of directors knew they were going to be held accountable, they'd exercise greater fiduciary control.

If stockholders were concerned about their stocks' value in 10 or 20 years, instead of next week, they'd have a different idea of what was important.

If landholders knew that their land was going to be going to family members that they cared about when they died, rather than just sold off, or inherited by strangers, they may take slightly better care of it.

It's not the system we claim we have, it's the system we have.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

21. Ever played monopoly?

The end result is always the same. One person ends up with everything and the rest of the world ends up broke. See anything like that happening lately?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. Too vulnerable to collusion.

The only hope for a civilized society is the existence of a government that looks after the interests of the people and establishes laws to prevent entities from going against them.

And that doesn't happen often. More likely, the government itself becomes part of the collusion. :(

But at least "not often" is different from "never."

[kliljedahl]

23. Don't really know

If there were somewhere it existed so I could experience it I might have an opinion.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Cats Against Frist]

24. Interesting question

As a libertarian, and a lover of gambling and marijuana (things also restricted from being "free market," I must say that I have some faith in the free market -- at least, by design. In fact, I have the ultimate faith in capitalism and the free-market system, as design. What I have no faith in, is people. Rich or poor.

The system, itself, is "supposed," to make everybody rich, keep prices down, squash poor or unefficient competitors, make goods widely available, and the global capitalist system is supposed to bring developing nations into the "first world."

That said, I have as much faith in anarchism and libertarian socialism, as systems -- and prefer this alternative, on a small-scale.

That said, however, I think that free market is the best way to go, simply because just because there IS a free market, doesn't mean people have to participate in it -- or even recognize it. This is my largest complaint with the left being caught up in big national-sized political drama, etc. While people are wasting time, and attention on what Kerry or Frist is doing -- there is the possibility for an entirely different market to be set up, within the free market, amongst organic enthusiasts, progressives, collectivists, etc. Instead of all the worry about what FOX is doing, put up a windmill. Get involved in community-supported agriculture. Make a list of where you can buy all your stuff without going to Hell-Mart. Shop second-hand, and reserve money for purchases that you have to spend a little more for, to make a smart decision. Learn to knit. Learn to sew. Save your money. Make a network in your local area. Start a commune. Work in local and state government to get local laws changed to your favor.

What the free market does is allow for all kinds of free markets to spring up, within it. I just watched "The Corporation," last night, and I loved it, save one thing: It never implicated the person who buys the shit. I feel that this person is as culpable as the stockholders. I also feel that the people who give labor to these corporations are partially not living up to their own social responsibilities. It takes two to tango, and it takes 260 million fat, open mouths to make a Big Mac a national icon.

The systems, I have faith in. The people, I don't.

***I want to add -- as many bright posters have, above. First, we need to actually deal with the real definition of "free market." Which would sever corporation from government. "Free Market," now, is simply used to describe corpo-fascism -- which BOTH parties support.

A true "free market" would be a very different animal, indeed.

[Psephos]

26. Good post n/t

[Karenina]

27. Zippola.

It's based on "unlimited growth" which, may I remind you, is the mentality of a cancer cell. It doesn't exist anyway. What we have is "predatory capitalism" backed by REALLY BIG GUNS.

[HughBeaumont]

29. Zero-Sum. Just like the "free-markets" themselves.

Hate "free markets". Hate the people who masturbate over their supposed greatness even more. Giving the rich tons of money doesn't prompt them to hire. Offshoring formerly high-paying careers doesn't create better jobs for Americans. Horatio Alger is dead. We're a corpro-Fascist state heading down a steep chasm where the tetra-rich will always reside in an untouched Penthouse suite laughing their asses off as the rank and file plunge into it's inevitable abyss.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. About as much as I do in Enron, Exxon, and General Dynamics.

The "free market" isn't free. It costs the lives of people, millions of people, to feed itself.

[idlisambar]

31. There are better systems

A Laissez-Faire capitalist state will lose when faced with competition from economic systems that support and promote industry in a more organized fashion.

[kodi]

32. interesting economic theory, when do we try it?

.

[Canuckistanian]

34. I call for separation of Business and State!

It's even worse than the union of Chuch and State.

[sweetheart]

35. What free market? Its never been tried

The US system is entirely central planning, with huge subsidies,
regulations and government dosh defining the "free" market. This
centrally planned mess is a little better than that of the USSR, but
no serious improvement. When they cut the welfare from the corporate
welfare queens, perhaps a "free market" might be an interesting thing to
explore.!

However... that is not the issue. Free market bundles in, as well,
the washington consensus of US global economic hegemony and dominance
over all world markets economically and militarily, using its might
to move the ground to offer US firms more monopoly, much as how the
war on terror is a free giveaway to military industry.

THe problem is that the wasthington consensus involves a little word
called "consensus" and that is over with the bush cirminals, that the
world has set course to form various alternate economic power blocks
to counter the abusive power of the DC-criminals. The marriage is
divorced, and there is no longer any serious consensus. That will
have long term impacts that totally re-define what american life will
become about in the coming decades. It is the travesty of the BFEE,
that so much value in the post WW2 consensus was flushed down the
toilet for a nuclear arms space race and middle east wars... never
to form again. So what free market? This is military imperialism
veiled as capitalism... and the world will not be having it.

[greendog]

36. It's either blind faith....or no confidence

Another religion for the delusional.

[David Zephyr]

37. Kentuck! Are you questioning the "Invisible Hand"?

:thumbsup: