lady who's son was mauled to death by her 2 dogs says it was god's will

[mopaul]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/06/03/BAdogmaul03.DTL

swear to god, i just saw it on my t.v. machine, a woman was pleading on t.v. to not make this about the dogs. it was little nicky's time to go she said, it was god's will, and not the fault of the two dogs.

what a world what a world

[liberalitch]

1. stupid bitch!

[seabeyond]

6. why would you say that

that is just wrong

my mom cmmitted suicide. greatest loss for me, but also the most profound experience i ever had. i could say something like that immediately after her death, but even 8 years after. i have such a feel she left how she was suppose to leave.

am i a stupid bitch too

are you guys really gonna make a deal out of this. with just a tad of respect, cant we allow her to mourn, her way

waving mopaul, enjoyed chatting iwth you on dog thread yesterday. yawl helped me out a lot with that

an isnt it amazing the coincidence of this thread, and my position, wink

[liberalitch]

19. First let me say that I am terribly sorry for your loss... then...

I'll say that I hope that God (provided that there is one) DOES NOT want 12 year olds to be torn aprt by vicious, inbred dogs that probably should not be around children NOR does god want mothers to commit suicide.... and anyone that thinks may be in need of help.

If there is a God..... i'm hoping that (as I was taught) he loves us and wants us to live long healthy productive lives.

Take from that what you will

[JNelson6563]

21. Well there was that thing with the bears

where the bible tells us about how all-loving bible god sent a she-bear to tear apart some kids who mocked an old man.

Maybe that's where she gets the notion (the lady with the son killed by dog thinking it's "god's will")....that book of enlightenment.

:shrug: Julie

[bloom]

25. Or maybe she thinks it's like her version

of Abraham being told by God to kill his son. I always thought that was nuts, too.

[trekbiker]

77. 2nd chapter 2nd Kings...

read it.

the kids were teasing the guy (Gods prophet or healer or something) about his bald head so he invoked the name of God and God sent two bears out of the woods and killed 20 or so kids...

fucking INSANE

[Selteri]

23. God's will to take her son vs not

God takes her son with a heart attack at age 10 when he's healthy

God takes her son with a lightning bolt from the sky.

Her son spontaniously combusts, showing god's will to take him.

Those are exaples of God's Will.

A dog attacking the kid is not God's will, not when it's a pitbul, that's human stupidity.

[roguevalley]

88. a woman in pain should not be held accountable for her words

just yet. Ten years from now, maybe

[seabeyond]

26. it isnt a matter of god wanting. so i think right there site shifts

but further, tell me a good death for a 12 year old. that wouldnt be heartwrenching.

oh lordy, and if i had time i would discuss the whole suicide thing, but it is a little larger than a sentence.

"wants us to live long healthy productive lives"

and you found this where in the bible

really take it away from arguement god wanting. god didnt do it. that is not what she is saying, i dont think. not from my teachings anyway

[bloom]

32. It's one thing

to decide that a persons decision for themself is for the best.

It's another thing to decide that one's child death was meant to be because of your dogs disposition to kill him.

[Tomee450]

35. I couldn't believe the

mother's comments. She kept saying don't blame the dogs, it wasn't their fault. Well, maybe she's right. It was she who allowed her son to be alone with a breed of dog known for its potential for viciousness.

[seabeyond]

55. do you know how many people on this board yesterday

defended the pit saying it wasnt the dog. i am worried about my kids safety and they only talked about the owner responsibility and absolutely said dont blame the dog. my position is they tend to be aggressive, and you dont know what will set them off, but noooooooo, not the dog. they are wonderful pets for children. so i agree. i dont htink it is a good idea to have these animals around children. i dont agree at all. and i dont like having two across the street with me

but if this si what people are bothered with this woman about, to say dont blame the dog. i heard it her over and over just yesterday morning.

it is an animal, blame, no it is just being an animal

[shrike]

132. I was thinking the same thing

At least she's not blaming the dogs -- that would go along with what everyone was saying in yesterday's thread.
I would think DU'd be happy she put it on God -- give everyone another opportunity to talk religion. (Which we do ad nauseum here.)

I'm an ex-reporter, and I have to wonder, who let her talk to the media? She should be in seclusion right now. I always tell people who ask, "Don't talk to the press unless you know what you're doing. And every single word you say can end up in print."

[seabeyond]

54. if you would like for this mom to feel gut wrenching guilt

for the rest of her life so be it. but i dont want that for my fellowman. nothing good comes out of that. not for anyone.

[bloom]

64. Should anyone ever feel guilty?

How about serial killers - rapists - George Bush?

Should they feel guilty?



On edit:
(retitled for clarity - kept content)

[seabeyond]

65. oooosh, you compare this mother to serial rapist

well, then i say, i think this is your issue and has nothing to do with this mother

[bloom]

67. NO I didn't

you just did.

I was responding to this:

"but i dont want that for my fellowman. nothing good comes out of that. not for anyone."

- referring to feeling guilty.

[seabeyond]

68. refering to this mothers experience

i am speaking about this mother, what she will experience for the rest of her life. look if you cannot be compassionate of this woman so be it. you want her to cry out her shame every single day, take a gun to her head, whatever., f* this shit

i think this is about the meanest thread i have seen on this board, ever.

so whatever. i am not this person to attack this woman in her pain. it does me no good. i wont do it.

go for it. tear her apart as the dog did her kid

[bloom]

69. Well

I get pretty sick of clueless people who don't want to take responsibility for their actions.

And that includes this woman as well as G.W.B.


I don't expect her to make public statements - but if she is going to - a little remorse wouldn't hurt.

[liberalitch]

109. And all I said was stupid bitch.....

I should have said so much more

[seabeyond]

115. when in el paso last year, i was hearing about a mother, whose

2 year old drowned in the pool just a couple weeks prior. i was a competitive swimmer for a lifetime, a life guard, i have such respect for the rules of a pool.

later i went to a mothers day out and was loving on this baby. always kind wwhen a mom gives up a baby to me, and allows me to just hold.

later i found out this was the mother that just weeks ago had lost her two year old.

i could have judged the woman. she was at her mothers house, sittin at table chatting with mom. and for whatever reason the two year old got out and into the pool. now.......

when i heard the story i thought no way for different reasons. but both my kids all while they were growing up, i always had eyes or ears on them. friends family would have to follow me around to talk, as i followed the little ones around. always.

i could have judged this mother

fuckin glad i didnt

shit happens.

for the grace of god, there goes i.......

i would hope that if something really shitty happened that i would be given compassion. i cant expect it, if i cant give it to another

[liberalitch]

53. NO....This is not in the Bible...

that is what I hope God wants....
It IS in the bible that he loves us..... so it stands to reason that he would want the best.... not death by pitbull

[seabeyond]

56. free will

god would also like for us to be compassionate and love,.....and not murder and be hateful

free will

[liberalitch]

108. So God is.... Pro-choice.

I always thought so

[seabeyond]

111. my main argument with my catholic and baptist friends

absolutely. if god gives us free will, then surely we have the obligation to allow that of our fellow man. and that includes allowing this woman to own a pit. right or wrong, good or bad. free will

now some may chose to punish her under the law. i would fight it. as far as i am concerned she is going to feel the repercussion far beyond anything we can give. and it gives nothing to her lesson or family or society. merely to punish because we are pissed at her choice

so lets take it back to abortion and free will

brother says, rape, they should be allowed to abort. since he says he has issue with abortion cause murder of baby, i say you cant murder baby cause of rape. went into argument, she didnt ask to have sex, was against what she wanted, why should she have to carry. where as someone wanting an abortion with sex, made the choice and must be responsible.

so really they say they are punishing the woman, mere punishment, for the sexual promiscuity, not for murder

[Gormy Cuss]

50. It was unkind to refer to the mother as a 'stupid bitch.'

Your reply to seabeyond is more constructive in that you articulate your reaction. Point taken.

The mother's grieving will have tons of guilt attached no matter what she is saying now about 'God's will.' Unfortunately, she is in the spotlight and apparently doesn't have a family advisor keeping her away from public comment at a time when I have no doubt that she is wholly out of her mind in grief.

[LittleClarkie]

128. I just got this image of you

standing in front of the mother saying "I'm sorry for your loss...(smack)...BITCH!"

[liberalitch]

129. While I would not say "stupid bitch" her at this point....

.... I'd damn sure be thinking it.

Now later... if she asked me if I thought that it was god's will.... I might then say..... "no, it was human stupidity."

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arwalden]

20. Stupid... Or Mentally Ill.

[ArkDem]

44. It wasn't just Ella, Rex helped.

[HeeBGBz]

52. People have to process death in their own way.

She termed it God's Will.

I personally think people are born into this world for an allotted time. I think certain aspects of the end of life are known by the souls when they choose to be born. Some being more subliminally aware of their fate than others. I think there's sort of a life "outline" written up. You are free to fill in the subject matter however you wish, as long as you stay in the subject headings.

Two different ways of looking at it.

Must be two stupid bitches.

[seabeyond]

58. this is what i was trying to say

with out saying, lol lol. cause i dont know if many look at life/death in this manner.

[luvLLB]

63. I agree with the "stupid bitch" theory...Gods will? give me a break!

[trekbiker]

76. I'm with you...

if she'd left a loaded pistol laying around and her son accidentally shot himself with it would it be "God's will"???

Rottwiellers, Pit Bulls, German Shepards.... those dogs are basically loaded guns. Genetically they have an aggression and prey instinct that can be triggered by who knows what. Would this have happened if it had been two Yellow Labs?? fuck no.

When I was a kid about the same age I was the victim of a "well trained, "he'll never bite" German Shepard. The only thing that saved me was the owner was right there when it happened and was able to pull the dog off. What did I do to incite this dog to attack??? I happened to ride my bike past this house and the dog was off its leash. just bad luck. a few scars but nothing serious thankfully.

This woman should be brought up on child endangerment charges.

[seabeyond]

78. WAIT...i have a question. yesterday a conversation about

exactly this, everyone told me what a wonderful pet it was. where is all this coming from. it is like yesterday when i, the parent, was concerned with the threat to my children, people jumped on me that it was everyones fault but...BUT the dog

and now here we are saying a person that owns this animal is like giving their child a gun

i am in a twighlight zone. not to mention the total lack of compassion

no i dont know the story, she may be a bitch that wanted her son to be eaten and it was all a great plan of this mothers, i dont know. but i am confused in the two totally seperate directions this one issue has taken in a 24 hour period

as i have read posters say, she feels no remorse. i am being told the mother doesnt feel remorse, some anonymous poster on nternet knows this mother has no remorse over the loss of her child.

[bloom]

86. maybe you missed this discussion:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1524566


All of these people who want everyone to pretend that there is no problem with pit bulls (leading people to believe that the mother should NOT have had a clue) is part of where I am coming from.

The people who want to say that pit bulls are no more dangerous than poodles or something. Or that there isn't any difference because both types of dogs bite.

I'd say - if you have a couple pit bulls across the street - you may want to be concerned.

[seabeyond]

106. i did research, again on the pit yesterday

with the thread i was on. it was not this one. and even the pro pit bull sites, all trying to justify having them as pets and they are good pets, said they are stubborn, obtuse to pain and once they bite down they wont let go and inevitably go for the head. now it is myth that they have "lock jaw" that isnt true, it just SEEMS like it because their jaws are so strong and they WONT let go.

was a real wtf, and this was the site defending the pit

i am concerned with the pits. whenever kids are out there, i have to stand watch at their property, ...... its a bitch, and it is wrong

but.....

it will be the mothers pain to bare. not mine. i dont need to pile on that pain. she will all on her own, experience the repercussion of having these dogs in her home. greater than any punishment anyone else can give her.

on edit: heres the article

Pit bulls, like most terriers, are extremely tenacious and stubborn. They easily become highly aroused and, when in such an agitated state, often have little control over their behavior if they have not been taught to inhibit their impulses. Hence, pit bulls have a reputation for being more "mouthy" and bite harder in play than other breeds. They are also relatively impervious to pain.

Back to top

The Pit Bull's Bad Reputation
Sadly, the pit bull has acquired a reputation as unpredictable, dangerous, and vicious. Their intimidating appearance has made them attractive to the wrong sorts of owner. These people are looking for a macho dog and, intentionally or otherwise, end up encouraging aggressive behavior. Pit bull popularity means that unscrupulous and uncaring breeders produce puppies without maintaining their typical reliability with people. In fact, pit bulls are now notorious for redirecting aggression from a dog to people attempting to break up a fight. And finally, if a pit bull does bite a person, the dog is far more likely to inflict serious injuries than most other breeds, simply because of the size and strength of their jaws.

[shrike]

134. I think that is Seabeyond's point

A whole thread -- one that is still active, btw -- with pit owners and others calling some DUers intolerant for their views on pit bulls. Today, we got this virtual pig-pile going on a woman who is probably still in shock. Maybe you think religion is nothing but crap, but Lord almighty, people say and do all kinds of things when they lose a loved one. In my town, a woman jogger was accidentally struck and killed by a kid on his way to school. Police had to physically restrain the woman's husband, a mild-mannered, average guy, from going after the kid.

I hope the mom stays away from microphones for awhile. I hope everyone else will stfu. I have the feeling mom is getting hate mail already.

[bloom]

140. She seemed to have been involved

with a different thread that took a different path.


In the post you responded to - I was responding to one where she said this (among other things:

"and now here we are saying a person that owns this animal is like giving their child a gun"


IOW - she was surprised that people on THIS thread thought there was any reason for people to think the mother may have had ANY role in the fact that her son was left with two dogs - that had the physical ability, temperament and the breeds documented unpredictability - to kill him.


( I think we worked it out).

[shrike]

141. We have had two threads on the same topic

on different days. It's brought out the worst and best of DU, I'm afraid.

[Gormy Cuss]

91. Give it up

The people who are agreeing to the "stupid bitch" theory do not understand what profound grief does to a person.
This woman is unlikely to be thinking clearly at this point.

Disagreeing with the contention that it was "God's will," fine. Calling the mother to task for saying that before she's even buried her child, heartless.

[tk2kewl]

2. God saved us from a future Kool-Aid drinker

:sarcasm:

[LeftyMom]

3. How on earth does someone reconcile

a god who loves you and wants you to be happy, but will let your family pets tear your son apart? The cognitive dissonance is stunning.

[non sociopath skin]

4. Sadly, it's not "the world," it's the American religious right ....

And then they wonder why the rest of the world has no time for them.....

The Skin

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. Unfortunately, these kooks are everywhere

So it's "what a world", yes.

[non sociopath skin]

62. But candour compels me to suggest ...

... that you have more than your fair share of them.

I couldn't imagine anyone saying this on this side of the pond and - here's the clincher - if they did, I'm pretty sure even the gutter press wouldn't carry it.

The Skin

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

113. I'm in Brazil

The talibornagains are all over Latin America like a flock of vultures. In the UK it's more dificult -- people are better educated, and not so many are desperate from poverty.

[non sociopath skin]

119. Guess so.

The Skin

[Shoeempress]

5. I'm sure her tune will change as soon as she figures out she can sue

[shawn703]

16. No, then it would still be God's will

That she get rich

[RebelOne]

17. Who's she going to sue?

They were her dogs.

[tenshi816]

8. Anyone who is nutty enough to say that

after losing their child doesn't deserve to have children. That child shouldn't have died, and I have to seriously wonder about that woman's "God".

[Selteri]

9. This is what happens when you let Religion control society

This wasn't Gods will! This was a stupid idiot who didn't know how to handle their animals. This is about Animal Control not doing thier job. This is about a stupid woman who's claiming it's GOD and not her own mistake of not watching her child correctly in the first place!

Get a life woman, religion is fine I'm sure it is comforting to think God took your son up to heaven, but it isn't God's will when it's incompetence on some level or another that caused your kid to be fatally mauled!

The woman has my sympathy for losing her child and has no sympathy from me for being a completely stupid idiot shooting up religion like heroine!

[kliljedahl]

10. I heard that myself this morning

thought :wtf:

This woman is insane, probably mourns the death of her dog more than her son. I had to kill a pit bull a couple of years ago when it jumped the fence and attacked my dog. Took an ax to do it. I carry a 357 at all times now.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[NYCGirl]

11. It's probably the only way she can emotionally cope with what happened.

I can't fault her for that. I can't even imagine what kind of pain she must be in and how much guilt she must feel.

[Ron Green]

30. Thank you. You have stated the truth of it, I believe.

[MissB]

114. That is probably it

I cannot imagine her pain. It rather makes sense that a deeply religious person would lean on their religion in a time of need.

[zanne]

12. An anti-stem cell research lady called in to C-Span that...

Her daughter died, but if her daughter was here today, she would not want her to be cured if it meant "somebody else" would die! (She'd rather throw unused stem cells in the trash).

[Larkspur]

13. I don't know the specifics of this case, but in CT there was a recent

incident of a Golden Retriever who bit a 9 or 10 year old boy, who was friend to the son of the dogs' owner.

This Golden Retriever was initially under a death sentence when it bit the owner's son. The son admitted to provoking the dog with his rough antics. The town, not the parents or the kid, wanted to put the dog down because it bit the kid. Many people in CT protested and helped saved the dog's life. Unfortunately, the dog should have be taken away from the family because the dog ended up biting the friend of the dog owner's son. After this incident, the dog was put down. In my opinion, the kids should have been put down for intentionally provoking the dog. And this family and the family of the 2nd kid bitten should NEVER again be allowed to own a dog.

[ChickMagic]

118. The same thing happened to my nephew

He wasn't knowingly provoking the Golden Retriever. He was about 6, I think and picked up a ball that was close to the dog's food bowl. The dog (who had never been aggressive) bit my nephew's lip entirely off along with 1/4 of his face. Then he ate it. He's had about a dozen surgeries and is still badly scarred. Dogs are dogs. No matter the breed. Some are naturally more aggressive and some have a stronger bite, but they will all react to a perceived threat.

[Deja Q]

14. WHo said it's God's will? Maybe God can tear that person a new way of life

God creates. God doesn't put His will onto things. If that was the case, we'd be a BETTER society; one free from selfish animals like corporate executives and the politicians that support them.

[RebelOne]

15. My jaw dropped to the floor when I heard that.

And she sounded no nonchalant about it also.

[shrike]

135. It's called shock

It does strange things to people. I've seen it myself.

[BlueEyedSon]

18. Maybe she's dyslexic and meant "Dog's will"?

I get them mixed up all the time, too....

[Balbus]

22. Congrats on that one!

:toast: to a good laugh!

[kliljedahl]

33. Is that what it is? a bumper sticker I own

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[BlueEyedSon]

36. LOL

"I used to be dyslexic, but now im K.O."

[kliljedahl]

37. Good thing you're not also

an insomniac and an agnostic. You'd be up all night wondering if there's a dog.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[KansDem]

43. Some say Bush is dyslexic...

I believe when he entered the room to answers questions for the 9/11 Commission, he was heard saying, "Take my Dick, hand. Take my Dick, hand."

[bloom]

24. I guess that's the way to let yourself off the hook.

:grr: :argh:

"not the fault of the two dogs" - I guess it didn't occur to her that she shares responsibility for having such dogs. :crazy:

[Spinzonner]

28. God, Dog, what's the difference

Apparently divine fate is a palindrome

[SteppingRazor]

29. AAAAAHH! My head! My freakin' head! It's gonna explode!

KABOOM!

[tk2kewl]

31. I wonder if how she would feel if a mentally ill person killed her son?

Would it be God's will?
Would she forgive?
Or would she demand death?

[Mizmoon]

38. "I wonder if how she would feel if a SANE person killed her son?"

Technically sane people kill far more than techincally insane people. The biggest factor in predicting if a person is dangerous is if they use drugs or alcohol.

I don't mean to be a drama queen, I just wanted to make a tiny point.

THANKS :)

[tk2kewl]

39. Drug and alcohol abuse is considered to be a mental illness

i didnt say an "insane" person, i said a mentally ill person.

[Mizmoon]

46. I never agreed with including substance abuse

as a mental illness. It is psychological, but it's not like schizophrenia.

I used the word "insane" intentionally to be "over the top".

[bloom]

34. From the article:

"The dogs were sweethearts,'' said Art Austin, a neighbor. "I never thought they were vicious. They were really nice. I would pet them, and my wife would kiss them on the forehead.''

"They were lovely dogs,'' Castelli said.


Yeah, right. :cry:

[ironflange]

41. I've noticed. . .

Every time something like this happens, someone talks about what sweet doggies they were, can't figure out what set them off. That's the problem with pitties, I don't think anyone knows what will set them off.

[Jacobin]

40. I'm guessing she thinks that will be her defense at her criminal

trial for child endangerment or negligent homicide.

"Gawd did it, not me!!!"

[DrGonzoLives]

42. Maybe it's better she doesn't have a child, then

n/t

[sakabatou]

45. WTH?

What is with this woman? Is she so distraught that she doesn't have any common sense?

[Book Lover]

47. If my son were killed by my dogs, I'd say crazy shit, too

People are excused from social requirements while grieving, including saying things that make no sense. If I were anything other than an atheist, I'd be praying for her.

[Finder]

70. I agree

As a mother I would be devastastad. The "God's will" statement is usually used/invoked while trying to accept a tragedy of any kind.

Of course I personally would want to rip the dogs to shreds with my own hands.(mother instinct)

[deadparrot]

48. This woman has been through hell.

Who knows? Maybe she truly believes it. I don't know her at all.

But let's give the woman a bit of a break. Her young child was ripped apart by dogs. Let's cut her a little slack, and at least consider the possibility that she wasn't speaking with all her faculties.

[LisaL]

131. Hell by her own making. Pit bulls are dangerous.

People that own these dogs and let their children be alone with them are playing with fire. If you play with fire, you might just get burn.

[deadparrot]

136. Does that make her pain any less real?

Does that make her any more accountable for what she said?

It was her child. Her child died in a horrible, violent manner. One bad descision on her part (which she may or may not have been aware of) doesn't change that much.

[AntiCoup2K4]

49. Rub the woman down with some raw meat, spike the dogs' food with meth.....

...and throw her in with them, and we'll see what "God" decides. :grr:

[shrike]

137. Real nice

[Pithlet]

51. Give the woman a break. She lost her child.

I won't hold anything anyone says against them when they're in the throws of grief, particularly when it is the loss of a child. If one of my kids died, I would completely lose my mind. Who knows what would come out of my mouth. I think judging this woman for the things she said is harsh.

[earth mom]

57. Isn't "GOD" "DOG" spelled backwards?

So it was really DOGs WILL? :crazy:

Okay, so this woman is out to lunch....but I am sorry for her loss.

on edit: Opps, didn't read through all the comments to see that "DOGS WILL" was already posted!

[arwalden]

59. Is THIS Godswill Too?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3805402

[Roland99]

60. Prime example that fundamentalism is a mental illness.

[stanwyck]

61. God seems to absolving quite a few

parents of their responsibilities as the caretakers of their children. Evoking "God's will" after your dogs kill your child means you don't want to take the responsiblity of protecting your child by making sure he wasn't in harms way. Fundamentlists parents have been found not guilty of child abuse which resulted in the deaths of their children by evoking "God's will".
God's will is not to shelter neglectful, abusive parents from their responsibilities.
Parents who fail to protect their children from loaded weapons and murderous dogs are not parents. They're criminals.
Accidents happen to conscientious parents. This "accident" had help from Mom.
If she'd loved her child, she wouldn't have killer dogs as babysitters.
Now, it's God's fault.

[VOX]

66. "The missiles have been launched...It's God's will."

I'm terribly sorry for this poor woman's horrible loss.

However, people should *never* abdicate their better judgment, or their ability to reason, or their ability to think analytically and critically.

The most horrific aspect of this "It's God's will" business will be the untimely and wholly unnecessary destruction of the entire planet.

[GRLMGC]

71. Everyone mourns differently

Why attack her for it? If this is the way she copes with her horrible loss then fine.

[mopaul]

74. i certainly never attacked her, i reported the story

attacking is like when two dogs attack your child. i was simply relaying a story i saw on t.v.

[GRLMGC]

133. You know what?

I didn't realize he was attacked by her dogs. How did they raise these dogs?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

72. So how come it isn't God's will when someone has an abortion?

[UdoKier]

73. God just called, and he told me...

That he had broadcast numerous stories about pit bull maulings into this woman's house as well as many magazine articles as a warning, but she refused to listen and continued to keep two musclebound, bloodthirsty pit bulls (bred for fighting) in a small home with her kids.

God wanted her kid to live. He is pissed.

[u4ic]

75. Not wanting to take responsibility

Let's pass the buck to god.

Pit bulls in an APARTMENT? :wtf:

[Pockets]

79. Take it easy on her....

There is no way a mother can adequately respond to the loss of a child.

Maybe in time she will realize it was the fault of the dogs but for now all she can contemplate is that "it's God's will." I didn't read the article, so maybe she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but regardless, I think the last thing she needs now is to be judged by others.

[mopaul]

80. who's judging?, not me.

[Pockets]

82. I didn't imply anyone was...

In any event, it was a proactive suggestion. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Regardless of faith, I think this makes sense in many cases.

[anarchy1999]

83. MoPaul, you consistently amaze me with the controversial topics you

take on. Good job. Stand tall.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

81. "Our God is a hungry God..." Dobson 2:4

[mopaul]

84. here's the woman's ACTUAL QUOTES

"I have a lot of guilt," said Maureen Faibish. "But I have to realize he was destined to go at this time."

Faibish's son, Nicky, was mauled to death by two pit bulls Friday afternoon in the bedroom of the family's Sunset District home.

Authorities are investigating what might have set off the attack while Faibish was home alone with Rex and Ella, 80-pound pets who had lived with the family since they were puppies.

"I don't want people to make this a dog thing," Faibish said. "It was an accident. It was something that happened, and I think god has a plan for everybody and it was time for Nicky to go."

[FourStarDemocrat]

85. She's probrably just repeating the rational in counseling she's recieved

Insted of facing up to the fact that she put her child in a dangerous situation. But whatever..I'm sorry for her tragic loss.

[anarchy1999]

87. Ummm, Maureen, It's time for your dogs to go!

Vicious animal/pets. I have no idea why anyone would have a pitbull around a child. It is just insanity. Plain and simple.

[Pockets]

89. Again a mom's going to say weird incomprehensible things

I'm sure she would give her own life if it could bring back her child. I don't think she's defending the dogs to save face. At this point she probably has not even completely grasped the fact that her child is gone, much less animal control issues.

Should pit bulls be illegal as pets? Sure. I don't even like keeping animals in zoos. But whatever she says is inconsequential to the topic.

[bloom]

95. So

she did say she had guilt.


Not that I think she should - but I probably would kill myself if I came home to that.

I don't think I would be able to stand it.

[mopaul]

96. first, i'd kill the dogs

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

116. Now I got flashbacks from the "Watchmen" comic book.

Rorschach. :scared:

[jmowreader]

127. The cops already killed one of them

Please note in the article the neighbor who said he thought these were the sweetest dogs.

I remember in yesterday's discussion the fact that the Little Rascals' dog was a pit came up a few times. Yes, they thought a pit bull was a good child's pet in the 1930s. They also used arsenic as face powder, made pipes for drinking water from lead and used potassium cyanide as insecticide; we later learned that These Weren't Good Ideas. And so it is with pit bulls as housepets.

Yes, I compared cyanide to pit bulls, and I'd do it again. Nicholas Faibish lies dead tonight because his mom kept pit bulls that were so sweet the neighbor's wife used to kiss them on the head as housepets. Flat out. That's the only reason this child is dead. If his mom kept labradors or spaniels, Nicholas would be alive now.

Let me check fire now 'cause it's late and I go in at 10am tomorrow.

[LisaL]

130. Yea. Every time the pit bull kills someone,

the pit bull's owners claim it's bad owners that made the dog mean, that their pit bull is the sweetest dog ever. With that kind of thinking, they might very well be next. This obviously is a vicious breed and even the dogs that appear sweet can turn and kill.

[jmowreader]

144. If you want a bad-ass dog, get a Belgian Malinois

I mean, what could be more bad-ass than a police dog? The Malinois is one of the more popular police dogs. Those and German shepherds.

When was the last time you saw a pit bull police dog? The cops don't trust the fucking things. The East German border command didn't trust them either; none of the dogs used on the Berlin Wall were pit bulls, and you'd think they'd have been perfect for that work.

There are a lot of vicious breeds out there; pits are in a class of their own because you can't predict their actions. These things are always the sweetest little puppies until they eat someone. Read the articles and it's invariably the same: the neighbor always says they thought the dogs were just the most gentle things they ever saw. You almost NEVER hear of someone getting eaten by one that barks and lunges at its chain...probably because when you've got one that's pissed off all the time, no one's stupid enough to go near it. Oh, occasionally a two-year-old will fuck up and go to pet the snarling, lunging puppy only to wind up one-armed or headless, but that's not very common.

[mopaul]

145. any dog will bite, but pit bulls do it best

[supernova]

90. She has to say that

And she has to believe it. It's the only way she can justify such a horrible tragedy in her mind.

It's got nothing to do with what anyone tells her, or what the objective reality is. This is literally how this lady is coping.

Too, too, too sad.

[mopaul]

92. she's blaming god for her own idiocy

i know, that's harsh.

[Pockets]

93. Okay, I think that was judging...

No offense, but I thought you said you weren't doing that.

[mopaul]

94. i am now

[Pockets]

97. If I were mauled to death because my mom made a mistake

and I were an angel in the Heaven that she believes in, I would definitely forgive her, and hope that she moved on with her life (after she kills the dogs).

So, yes I think she made a dumb mistake, but to expect her to be able to comprehend it at this point is asking a lot. I think she is unable to think past the loss.

Parents make mistakes all the time that result in the death of their children... they fall off 3rd story decks, run into traffic, fall in pools. This is not much different.

[bloom]

100. I think it's more like

taking them skydiving or climbing Mt. Everest.

They should have known the risk they were imposing by their choices.


If adults want to impose risk on themselves that's one thing. I think this is something else.


app. 400,000 serious attacks by pit bulls/ year.

50% of the serious dog attacks with 3% of the dogs.

[Pockets]

103. I'm not saying she didn't screw up....

She did screw up. But this is not the time to expect her to become a spokesperson for the anti pitbull society. Check back with her in a few years.

[bloom]

105. found this: Family Wants Dog Destroyed After Deadly Mauling

Jun 6, 2005 5:50 pm US/Pacific

(CBS 5) The parents of a San Francisco boy mauled to death by one or both of the family's pit bull dogs say they want the surviving dog destroyed.

Animal control officers took the male dog into custody on Friday. Police shot and killed the female pit bull when they arrived, and found 12-year-old Nicholas Faibish dead inside the family home. The boy had suffered numerous vicious bite wounds to the head and upper body.

On any given day, 40% of the 150 dogs at San Francisco's Animal Care and Control are pit bulls. They are treated just like any other dog, but in the wake of last week's killing, Mayor Gavin Newsom wants to change that.

"Not every dog is the same," he said. "A poodle is not the same as a pit bill."

Newsom says it's time to rethink the laws that govern what people can do with potentially violent and deadly canines. <more>


http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_157205214.html

[Bethany Rockafella]

98. People don't think sometimes when they speak.

With her being in grief doesn't help.

[mopaul]

99. she actually defended the dogs, & said it's not about the dogs

in the above quotes from her. yet it was the two dogs she left the boy alone with that killed him, with god as the instrument.

i'd be in grief too, but i wouldn't defend the damned dogs, i'd shoot them.

[mopaul]

101. "I don't want people to make this a dog thing-it was time for Nicky to go"

from the above quotes

[Bethany Rockafella]

110. Now that quote doesn't make any sense.

She definitely isn't thinking there. You normally say that when there's a car accident or plane crash but not when you leave your kid alone with two dogs around.

[seabeyond]

117. no, really?

bah hahahahah. i like the hamburger meat idea

[Pockets]

102. Correct, this is not a 'learning experience'

To explain the cause of what happened would imply she has accepted the loss of her child, but she probably is still in the denial stage.

It is not a learning experience because she can never replace what she has lost.

[tallahasseedem]

104. Something tells me that God does not sit around...

all day deciding what child should get mauled to death by a dog. The same goes for when one sports team wins over another and when a person is voted off American Idol and they proclaim that it was God's will and plan. I am always baffled by what folks consider Gods will.

[Arugula Latte]

122. Frankly, I think nothing is "God's will."

It always strikes me as strange that some people think God decides to get involved in certain events, whether it be, like you say, helping a team win or causing the crash of a plane or even a genocide. To me it seems logical that if there is a god (which I personally greatly doubt) then everything -- every movement of every atom -- would be under control by god or nothing would. The pick-and-choose theory sounds the least likely.

[geniph]

107. And people want to worship THAT god?

a god that thinks it's a fine idea to have small children torn to bits by sharp-toothed creatures that the children loved?

Eh, if that's god's will, then Depeche Mode was right - god has a sick sense of humor.

[Bethany Rockafella]

112. I just read the article. I should have known they were f'ing pit bulls!!!

[0rganism]

120. Would that make God legally liable?

I'd like to see that grand jury indictment.

[seabeyond]

121. i just read the article, and i want to say to the people defending

these animals being around children. listening to so many neighbors, these dogs were friendly. these dogs appeared to not be aggressive. only a child saw an aggressiveness and dogs sense it with children. because the bodies are little dogs feel they can be dominate. so not surprised the child feared the dog and not adults.

but.....

having pits next to me. i say wrong wrong wrong. i will not accept the, oh this is a silly labeling we are giving to these animals

i did not see anywhere in the article saying these were fighting pits, as a poster said above

and looking through the pictures, i struck me the diversity in the employees and neighborhood. here in texas, would be all white males. it really appreciate that, miss it.

and the mother was remorseful, how about hysterical

[bloom]

124. If she didn't feel guilty

she wouldn't be human, IMO.

It's not up to me whether someone feels guilty or not.

She knows far more than I do about her situation. Someone probably told her how "nice" pit bulls are. Or something.



While I suppose it's "reasonable" for someone to lay the blame on God, I don't think it's useful for the rest of us. It keeps people from thinking.

For those that want to avoid thinking - I guess it makes sense.

It also makes a screwed up world.

[seabeyond]

125. Someone probably told her how "nice" pit bulls are.

this is what i was thinking while chatting to you above. i dont think it is blaming, "blaming" god. for me it is more this woman is allowing herself to have faith in divine plan. we may not have the answers why......but in faith, know. i think that is more what she is doing. trying to accept this passing. it is a tough one, and she is going to be all over the place with this

i cannot imagine, why dogs in a home around these kids, always, would do this

i cannot imagine what it would be like, to be there, and try to wrestle the dogs away

actually i do imagine. i have to imagine what i would do to protect my kids if neighbor dog gets out

i know what she said about god is turning people off, but gosh, i was a retard and still think of a couple stupid things i said with my moms death. a couple of them turned aunt off and she doesnt talk to me. like i dont love my mom

anyway,
peace

[proud2BlibKansan]

123. I saw this last night

and it still bothers me today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3801327

[bloom]

126. I know what you mean.

I've gotten stuck on the subject.

I'm going to have to let it go.


Someone from that thread wrote:

"it could also have been some lesson from God for the mother"


I would say - if people are looking for lessons - it could be a lesson to everyone who owns a pit bull (or who may get one) or any other dog capable of this.

I also have a pet peeve about dog packs running around - that people feed them and encourage this. It's a rural thing.

I noticed an article that said ->

"On any given day, 40% of the 150 dogs at San Francisco's Animal Care and Control are pit bulls."

http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_157205214.html

That seems to indicate there are a lot of people who need to neuter their pets. These people intended to "breed" them - when there are already more than anyone wants.

[BikeWriter]

138. Silly ####!

[shrike]

139. Every day, in every way

This community gets meaner and meaner

[bloom]

142. That is so nice of you to say.

Yes we should only ever say nice things - whether we mean them or not.

Oh - but then you wouldn't have been able to write that.

That gets so confusing.

:nuke:

[mopaul]

146. are you calling me mean? ...ME?

[medeak]

143. the article didn't quote her that way

but I can believe you. We had a tragic accident where we hired a son of employee for the summer who was killed on the job. It was horrible.

Parents consoled us by saying "It was his time to go... there may have been something bad ahead in his life for him"

I think it's just a coping mechanism and don't judge people when they are traumatized like this.

[Magginkat]

147. I'm curious

I would really like to know why my post was removed from this thread. I used no profanity, called no one names...but my one lonely comment was removed. Anyone care to explain?