About the DSM.

[forgethell]

I really hope it is true, but I have a serious question. This is not flame bait, so I'm just going to ask it and read your responses with no more comments of my own. I would appreciate any well-reasoned answers.

Having read through the thing, it seems to me that the only "smoking gun" occurs in the 4th paragraph,

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.

Damning stuff, indeed. But is it evidence? By that I mean, is it strong enough to impeach Bush? I must admit that I have always thought we were wasting our time trying to impeach him, but with evidence, maybe we could.

Here is the problem that I have with this as the tool to bring Bush down: it doesn't really prove anything, certainly not in a legal sense.

First, it's the minutes of a meeting, which are always abridged, leaving out facts, words, statements from the original meeting. This seems to me to be enough to drive a freight train through in a legal proceeding. Second, it's at least third-hand. The minutes are written by a Matthew Rycroft. He is quoting someone called "C" who had talks in Washington. C is giving his opinion of the US position. How many levels are there between the people that 'C' talked to and the President? I don't know but maybe one of you does.

OK, let's assume this is all true, every word. The memo itself would be pretty worthless without some testimony, under oath, from Mr. Rycroft and the mysterious 'C'. Remember Dan Rather's recent fiasco. Maybe every word was correct, but he didn't have the evidence. Now what are the chances that Mr. Rycroft will come over here to testify about this memo? I don't know, they might be pretty good, but it's still just hearsay. We need, I think, to get 'C' on the stand. What are the chances of that? C'mon, a man known only by his initial??

Like I said, this is not flame-bait. I want to know exactly how this scenario is supposed to work out, because I smell the hand of Karl Rove behind it. I think we're about to be made fools of again. But if you think not, I'd like to know why. As I am only interested in an answer and not in arguing, I'm not going to respond to any replies.

[SteppingRazor]

1. No, it is not strong enough to impeach Bush.

The Downing Street Memo only points in the right direction and points out the need for further inquiry. It does not, however, indict Bush by any stretch of the imagination. It's foolish to think it does, as in an impeachment trial that part of the memo would be thrown out as hearsay.

[libertypirate]

2. It simply proves what many already believed.

They wanted war, and now we find started this war before they had a damn good reason to put our people in harms way.

Put it this way in the court of public opinion this document does the jig on cuckoobananas ass.

[blm]

3. These minutes parallel the Oct 2002 KnightRidder story of CIA analysts

accusing the White House of cooking the intel books. The reporters interviewd over a DOZEN analysts and they all said the same thing....the evidence was being cooked..

[Demit]

4. C is Sir Richard Dearlove, Director of SIS (aka MI6), who heads the UK's

foreign intelligence service. Cripes! Go to http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/ and get more familiar!!

"Below is a breakdown of the various individuals mentioned in the memoMajor Players:
the officials present at the secret meeting

" - all of whom were present during the meeting with the Prime Minister and subsequently received copies of these minutes.

• Foreign Policy Advisor - David Manning
• Matthew Rycroft - aide to Manning, wrote up the minutes of the meeting.
• Defence Secretary - Geoff Hoon
• Foreign Secretary - Jack Straw
• Attorney-General - Lord Goldsmith
• Cabinet Secretary - Sir Richard Wilson
• Chair of the Joint Intelligence Committee - John Scarlett
• Director of GCHQ - Francis Richards, head of the UK's "signals
intelligence establishment", an intelligence agency, which reports
to the Foreign Secretary
• Director of SIS (aka MI6) - Sir Richard Dearlove, identified as 'C' in the
meeting minutes, heads the UK's foreign intelligence service
• Chief of the Defence Staff - Admiral Sir Michael Boyce
• Chief of Staff - Jonathan Powell
• Head of Strategy - Alastair Campbell
• Director of Political & Govt Relations - Sally Morgan"