I think the Neocons will lose.

[charlyvi]

Because they are fundamentally unAmerican. By this I mean their thoughts turn toward empire, and America is not an imperialistic society. Bush's "spreading democracy" campaign is, in essence, imperialistic, and Americans don't like to tell other societies how to live because we don't, ourselves, want to be told how we must live. The rhetoric sounds good to some people, but when push comes to shove Americans are pretty much live and let live kind of people. Our foundation simply isn't amenable to Empire, and we've failed every time some messianic minded administration has tried to do it. That is why the neocons will lose. Even the hawks will come to realize that Iraq is not worth what we are paying--in lives and treasure. I saw it happen in Vietnam; Iraq is no exception.

[noahmijo]

1. I didn't live during Vietnam (I'm 23) but you're right in the sense that

It will eventually come to a hault but unfortunately it doesn't happen until the neo-cons start to suffer their own damage. i.e. it's THEIR sons that get sent off to war, it's THEIR pocketbooks that get hit it's THEIR daughters that get raped and are faced with the decision of bearing the child of a rapist.

The other ugly truth is that even though they will be defeated it seems they have this ugly habit of reforming and starting all over again after long periods of time

[charlyvi]

2. True.

History always seems to repeat itself. But, as I stated, I can't think of anywhere we've succeeded in building and empire, such as the British or French did. We just don't seem to be built that way. Which is a good thing.

[noahmijo]

4. I wish our nation could be more like Troy

Maybe I need to study up a bit more, but in a sense I always saw America as this country of geniuses, you know innovators all sorts of people who put their resources together to form a strong nation one that on one hand is caring and prosperous but on the other hand strong and fierce if we were to be provoked or anyone attempted to conquer us.

The Bush Crime Family wiped their asses with that image and now as far as I'm concerned we have a LONG uphill battle to reclaim our name but I believe it will be done because history for us has proven that it can be done because it's been done before.

[charlyvi]

5. Right. This nightmare will not stand.

It never has before, and won't this time either. We're not a stupid people, just ignorant sometimes!

[oscar111]

6. Empire: Latin America: history not repeat - slow progress is pattern

i dont know about empire. We seem to have always liked to send troops into latin america whenever the admin wanted to. We are ambivalent, perhaps?

as to "history repeats" -- that is a basic part of RW view of world.

They see progress efforts as futile. The progressive sees history as pendulum swings, true, but with a slow move of the center of the swings toward a better world, ie, progress.

eg, kings are on the way out. Poverty too. I agree with progressives...., history does not always repeat. Thankfully. Some reason for that is Science. There are now things in this world that were never even dreamt of in past philosophies. Plato and Buddha never spoke of the internet. Never. Nor antibiotics nor heart transplants.

[charlyvi]

9. And every time we interfered in Latin America,

we failed. Rightfully so. I'm surprised anyone in Latin America likes us these days, maybe they don't

[BayouBengal07]

3. Precisely.

It's all about power.

Neocon editorialist Charles Krauthammer said the US should adopt an "unabashed unilateralism"; that "The US can reshape, indeed remake, reality on its own." (Time Magazine March 5 2001).

But the US already has a democratic world model in the UN. It is reality in the US image: a place where democracy rules, where all the countries of the world get together and vote together in a one country, one vote rule. Its global democracy in action.

But that's not good enough. It has to be US imposed global order. We have to do it, because we have to control it.

[Bucky]

7. Charly, Mohandas Gandhi agreed with you

When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, always.
--Mohandas Gandhi

[charlyvi]

10. Exactly.

We must take the long view of this.

[damntexdem]

8. America has acted imperially many times in its past.

What will stop the neocons is that they are destroying America's viability as an imperial power: destroying its economy, deteriorating its military, and have already smashed its ability to act diplomatically. America is often happy as an empire; but it will not be able to support imperial ambitions in future.

Already, Latin American nations have recently let the U.S. know that they will no longer tow its line: neither in terms of attacking one of their own in the namne of 'democracy,'nor in its pushing on them of unfettered capitalism. Despite its problems, Europe is fairly united, and increasingly unwilling to follow America's lead. Japan and South Korea are impatient with Dubya's policies (or lack of them) in Asia. China and India have gained much of the employment base that America used to have, and China owns much of America's foreign debt. Meanwhile, the U.S. military is bogged down in Iraq, and to a smaller extent in Afghanistan, while its recruitment drops and resignations increase; and the GOP dares not suggest a draft. Stupid Bushista tax cuts and other wrongheadedness have destroyed what economic momentum the country had under Clinton, while continuing Clinton's and predecessors'policies of losing the industrial base in the name of 'global free trade.' To top it off, American education is struggling to remain second-rate.

PNAC's dreams were always fantasies -- more so today than before they gained power.

[charlyvi]

11. Don't mean this sarcastically at all,

but when were we happy as an empire. I truly don't know and would be interested to find out. :)