Literature handed out at Conyers hearing NOT anti-semitic

[Frederik]

http://www.democrats.com/milbank#comment-30982

If this poster on Democrats.com is to be believed, the literature stated that Israel had WARNED the US of the impending attack. Which is what a good ally should do. Apparently, NOWHERE in the document handed out was it alleged or implied that Israel was behind the attack.

No one should even entertain the possibility that Dana Whorebank acted in good faith here. He knew there was nothing that could even remotely be construed as anti-semitic in the literature that was handed out. But he knew that by using the lablel "anti-semitic" he could discredit Conyer's effort, which was his mission (whether paid or not).

The Corporate Media Brothel wonder why they are losing readers?

[Karenina]

1. Deceit and lies

rinse and repeat!

[Ian David]

2. McGovern said Israel wants to "dominate the entire region."

I assume that people here on DU mean well and do not intend anti-semitism. But that is not how this stuff plays out in the rest of the world.


There's a difference between criticizing their policy and re-stating old anti-semitic slanders dressed-up as criticisms against Israel.

I agree with a point a previous poster made that Israel might be concerned about securing a water supply.

However, it is simply a putting lipstick on an anti-semitic pig to say that Israel wants to take over the Middle East.

That's like saying, "Our Red Robin chain of restaurants shouldn't hire 'Urban People'," when you're actually talking about black people.

And whether I am wrong or right, and whether you agree or not, his statement will only do two things:

1) Fuel anti-semitism for those who truly do believe (even if you don't believe) that Israel and Jews are one and the same. This is what is fueling anti-semitic attacks in Europe.

2) It will alienate people who would otherwise be on our side who will dismiss this whole issue as an anti-semitic conspiracy.

Believe me, in certain quarters, this guys comments will be played over and over to either justify anti-semitism or to condemn the whole downing street investigation as anti-semitic.

In fact, it is anti-Zionism that is fueling an explosion of anti-Jewish hate crimes.

ADL Survey in 12 European Countries Finds Anti-Semitic Attitudes Still Strongly Held
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4726_13.htm

Global Anti-Semitism:
Selected Incidents Around the World in 2005
http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/anti-semitism_global_incidents_2005.asp

ADL European Survey Findings: "A Potent and Dangerous Mix"
30% of Europeans Cling to Traditional Anti-Semitic Stereotypes, Coupled with a High Rate of Anti-Israel Sentiment
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4118_13.asp


I trust the people here at DU to mean well and that DU'ers do not have anti-semitic intent. However, that is not how it plays in the rest of the world.

This will energize the anti-semitic filth on the right as "proof" that the Jews are behind it. This will energize the "right-wingers" who will use this as proof the Democratic Party is anti-semitic.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=93718#93789

A key difference between Israel and other countries is that Israel is the last refuge of a persecuted people who were nearly exterminated time and time again throughout history.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
http://www.chretiens-et-juifs.org/article.php?voir%5B%5D=504&voir%5B%5D=5802

". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.

"Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so.

"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.

"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested--DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.

"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfillment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land.

The problem isn't with criticizing Israel. I criticize Israel a lot. The problem is with certain criticisms, such as claiming they have a will to conquer and control. It is just the old Protocols libels camouflaged behind the word "Zionism."

The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion

It is a classic in paranoid, racist literature. Taken by the gullible as the confidential minutes of a Jewish conclave convened in the last years of the nineteenth century, it has been heralded by anti-Semites as proof that Jews are plotting to take over the world. Since its contrivance around the turn of the century by the Russian Okhrana, or Czarist secret police, "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" has taken root in bigoted, frightened minds around the world.

The booklet’s twenty-four sections spell out the alleged secret plans of Jewish leaders seeking to attain world domination. They represent the ]most notorious political forgery of modern times. Although thoroughly discredited, the document is still being used to stir up anti-Semitic hatred.

Origins of the Protocols

Serge Nilus, a little-known Czarist official in Moscow, edited several editions of the Protocols, each with a different account of how he discovered the document. In his 1911 edition Nilus claimed that his source had stolen the document from (a non-existent) Zionist headquarters in France. Other "editors" of the Protocols maintained that the document was read at the First Zionist Congress held in 1897 in Basel, Switzerland.

Note: According to reputable scholars, including Prof. Norman Cohn in his noted book, Warrant for Genocide, the world-control myth was actually lifted from a 19th century French political satire in which the alleged plotters weren't even Jewish.

More:
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/protocols/protocols_intro.asp

Blurring the Line
By Abraham H. Foxman
National Director of the Anti-Defamation League

<snip>

I tell the questioner that everyone has the right to criticize Israel, just as they have the right to criticize the United States, Great Britain, Argentina, Taiwan or Nigeria. Even harsh condemnation of Israeli policy is not on its own anti-Semitic, and it is irresponsible to brand every critic of Israel as an enemy of the Jewish people. Indeed, I say, some of the toughest criticism of Israel is to be found in the Israeli press, which is as free and multivoiced as any in the world.

However, we have developed a number of litmus tests to assess when criticism of Israel crosses the line.

- Is Israel being repeatedly singled out for criticism and blame?
- Is Israel being held to a double standard - being denounced while a blind eye is turned to the excesses and offenses of other nations?
- Is it Israeli policy that is the subject of criticism, or is it the existence of the Jewish state and Jews as a whole?

The Palestinian-Israeli conflict has been hijacked, resulting in an explosion of global anti-Semitism. It has provided a camouflage of semi-respectability. The attacks are not about a nation state, they are about Jews. A hideous and grotesque double standard clearly exists in my mind. Anti-Zionism has long been a code word for anti-Semitism. We have had to define for ourselves when anti-Israel and anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.

<snip>

The fact is that the cumulative effect of articles by so-called anti-Israel critics leads to a blurring of the line of what is legitimate criticism of policies of the State of Israel, and what is the demonization of Jews. The result is the raising of society's tolerance level for anti-Semitism.

In the most extreme examples, this tolerance for anti-Semitism has resulted in the justification of egregious acts of anti-Semitism as merely an expression of opposition to Israeli policies. When anti-Jewish violence erupted across France, government leaders, the media and other opinion-molders were hesitant to denounce it as anti-Semitism, because the torching of synagogues in their minds was understood within the context of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Today, the international community sits in virtual silence when media in the Arab/Muslim world promote through their propaganda the most heinous conspiracy theories about Jews, because it is viewed through the prism of criticism of Israel.

More:
http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Anti_Semitism_Global/op-ed-haratez-040404.htm

Abraham H. Foxman is the national director of the Anti-Defamation League and author of "Never Again? The Threat of the New Anti-Semitism."

Again, I assume that people here on DU mean well and do not intend anti-semitism. But that is not how this stuff plays out in the rest of the world.

[bpilgrim]

3. nonsense

Ray McGovern was simply pointing out the FACTS that unfortunately are UNMENTIONABLE these days.

thats got to change.

peace

[Ian David]

5. They're still repeating the "Israeli companies knew about 9/11" slander

"At Democratic headquarters, where an overflow crowd watched the hearing on television, activists handed out documents repeating two accusations -- that an Israeli company had warning of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and that there was an "insider trading scam" on 9/11 -- that previously has been used to suggest Israel was behind the attacks."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/16/AR2005061601570.html

All of which has been THOROUGHLY discredited.

People here at DU should know better than to believe that, and to recognize it for what it is.

It doesn't get any more anti-semitic than THAT.

[Frederik]

13. NO THEY DIDN'T

That was the whole point of my OP. Please read the link I provided.

The literature DID NOT allege or imply that Israel was behind 9/11.

MILBANK MADE THAT UP.

Get your facts right.

[Ian David]

15. OK, I get it now. I'm sorry I missed that point.

The Washington Post actually made that shit up???

Dude, if that's true, something needs to be done about that.

Does anyone have a copy of what was actually handed out?

But I stand by what I said regarding the statement made at the conference about Israel wanting to "dominate the region." I heard that myself.

[geek tragedy]

51. No, but they claimed that Jews around the world had notice of the attack

<snip>
According to Argentine Jewish leaders, the Jewish community in that country �received a warning about an impending major terrorist attack against the United States, Argentina or France just weeks before September 11.� Forward quoted Marta Nercellas, a lawyer for the Delegaci�n de Asociaciones Israelitas Argentinas, or DAIA, Argentina's main Jewish representative body: �It was a concrete warning that an attack of major proportion would take place, and it came from a reliable intelligence . And I understand the Americans were told about it.� (Forward 2-5-2002)
<snip>

I'll donate $20 to DU if you can find that article on the Forward website.

[KamaAina]

52. This one?

http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.05.31/news2.html

Leaders of Argentina's Jewish community received a warning about an impending major terrorist attack against the United States, Argentina or France just weeks before September 11, the Forward has learned....

"It was a concrete warning that an attack of major proportion would take place, and it came from a reliable intelligence source," said Marta Nercellas, a lawyer for the Delegación de Asociaciones Israelitas Argentinas, or DAIA, Argentina's main Jewish representative body. "And I understand the Americans were told about it."...

The Jewish leaders' accounts of the warning come as members of Congress are openly criticizing the FBI for failing to streamline and relay information gathered by its local agents about the suspicious behavior of Middle Eastern students in American flight schools prior to the attacks.

More broadly, the Bush Administration is facing scrutiny for refusing to divulge a presidential intelligence briefing warning that the Al Qaeda network was planning to use hijacked planes in a terror attack and for opposing an independent investigation of its handling of the pre-September 11 warnings.

(the date is 5-31-02, not 2-5-2002; the Forward apparently uses an unusual yy.mm.dd format to store its archives)

Send the twenty bucks in unmarked singles and fives to DU, c/o KamaAina, P.O. Box 2323, Honolulu, HI 96800 :-)

Edit: Also note that the Forward has, in recent years, degenerated into a neocon rag. They used to operate a good lefty talk radio station, WEVD in NYC, right up until until the neocons who now run the Forward Foundation sold it to ESPN. And so, you may want to take the article cum grano salis.

[geek tragedy]

53. You just earned $20 for DU!

Good work.

Now, I've got some blushing to do.

[Monkie]

16. i call BS:CEO of warned Israeli Company in Israeli newspaper interview

note:this doesnt mean i think this implies in any way that Israel was involved in 9-11, NOR have i seen anywhere that anyone didnt go to work at the WTC because of this warning, its just one of those weird anomalies, but it IS true.
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=77744&contrassID=/has%5C

"Odigo says workers were warned of attack
By Yuval Dror

Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company's management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.

"I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don't know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right. And I don't know if our information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made," said Macover. Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with offices in Herzliya."

[Ian David]

20. I missed the OP's point. The Wash. Post fabricated that part

In any case...

As an instant messaging service, Odigo users are not limited to sending messages only to people on their "buddy" list, as is the case with ICQ, the other well-known Israeli instant messaging application.

Odigo usually zealously protects the privacy of its registered users, said Macover, but in this case the company took the initiative to provide the law enforcement services with the originating Internet Presence address of the message, so the FBI could track down the Internet Service Provider, and the actual sender of the original message.

If it's true, it doesn't sound like it was part of a "conspiracy."

In fact, they may not have even been the intended recipients of the message.

[Frederik]

25. Yeah, but that's exactly the point

The company that received the message happens to be Israeli, or to have strong Israeli ties, but the company itself is not really interesting, the interesting part is that such a message was sent that morning, from someody (ok, it's not that interesting, I'll readily admit).

It appears to have been Milbank who seized on the nationality of the company in question to make allegations about anti-semitism. Very Rovian.

[Monkie]

26. thats my point the anti-semitism "charge"is wrong in so many ways

its hard to know where to begin...
you make sweeping statements and tie it all together into one big ant-semitic conspiracy and then go "oops" when confronted?
could you pause and think about how dangerous it is when play the anti-semite card next time?

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. Of course this is how the story will play out in the rest of the world

if folks like you immediately turn the Israel issue, into an antisemitism issue.

Can we be grown up and just talk about the leaders and the current government of Israel. This is the issue. It has nothing to do with the millions of people of Jewish descent or the fine people who happen to live in Israel.



If you don't believe that Israel's security is not a big part of US policy in the ME and our invasion of Iraq, then we will never be able to even hope to have real peace in the Middle East.


Here's the proof that Israel is the I in O.I.L.




A Clean Break:
A New Strategy for Securing the Realm

Following is a report prepared by The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies’ "Study Group on a New Israeli Strategy Toward 2000." The main substantive ideas in this paper emerge from a discussion in which prominent opinion makers, including Richard Perle, James Colbert, Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Douglas Feith, Robert Loewenberg, David Wurmser, and Meyrav Wurmser participated. The report, entitled "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," is the framework for a series of follow-up reports on strategy.

Israel has a large problem. Labor Zionism, which for 70 years has dominated the Zionist movement, has generated a stalled and shackled economy. Efforts to salvage Israel’s socialist institutions—which include pursuing supranational over national sovereignty and pursuing a peace process that embraces the slogan, "New Middle East"—undermine the legitimacy of the nation and lead Israel into strategic paralysis and the previous government’s "peace process." That peace process obscured the evidence of eroding national critical mass— including a palpable sense of national exhaustion—and forfeited strategic initiative. The loss of national critical mass was illustrated best by Israel’s efforts to draw in the United States to sell unpopular policies domestically, to agree to negotiate sovereignty over its capital, and to respond with resignation to a spate of terror so intense and tragic that it deterred Israelis from engaging in normal daily functions, such as commuting to work in buses.

Benjamin Netanyahu’s government comes in with a new set of ideas. While there are those who will counsel continuity, Israel has the opportunity to make a clean break; it can forge a peace process and strategy based on an entirely new intellectual foundation, one that restores strategic initiative and provides the nation the room to engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism, the starting point of which must be economic reform.

more...

http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm

[Ian David]

6. Yes, the Stormfront White Nationalists like to cite that editorial, too

Stormfront White Nationalist Community
... geopolitics of water (http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat10/strat10.htm). ...
and Jordan against the Syrians (http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm) ...
www.stormfront.org/archive/t-195096Golan_ elephant_and_the_Lebanese_crisis.html

In fact, I don't see it cited anywhere other than in neo-nazi groups.

You may want to double-check the credibility of your source.

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. Here's my source

http://www.israeleconomy.org/pub.htm

What? The Institute for Advanced Strategic & Political Studies (IASPS) is a Jerusalem-based think tank with an affiliated office in Washington, D.C. Its main focus is "limited government" as Aristotle intends: "men think the constitution enslaves them but it is their salvation." The great philosopher of the Western tradition also noted that philosophy or the use of man's intellect "is his divinest part." Accordingly, IASPS pursues the limitation of Israeli socialist statism supported by US aid, by means of free market reform and a robust missile defense. The link between these economic and geostrategic policies reflects a critique of those policies which stand in opposition to limited government and affect an undermining of the elementary truths of human order. At the purely political level, IASPS policies stand in opposition to those supportive of statism and the diminution of the balance of power.


Maybe you should re-read the particpant list?



Participants in the Study Group on "A New Israeli Strategy Toward 2000:"

Richard Perle, American Enterprise Institute, Study Group Leader

James Colbert, Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs
Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Johns Hopkins University/SAIS
Douglas Feith, Feith and Zell Associates
Robert Loewenberg, President, Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies
Jonathan Torop, The Washington Institute for Near East Policy
David Wurmser, Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies
Meyrav Wurmser, Johns Hopkins University


This looks like a legitimate organization to me?

[Ian David]

10. Yes, but IASPS is an ultra right-wing extremist group.

The Israeli-ultra-far-right shouldn't doesn't deserve any more credibility than the American-ultra-far-right.


December 1995, Pages 7, 86-87
Special Report
Right-Wing Extremists Endanger Israel and the Jews
By Rachelle Marshall

<snip>

Bruck describes IEDC as an offshoot of the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies (IASPS), a hawkish arm of the pro-Israel lobby in the U.S. Marianne Gingrich works closely with its president, Robert J. Loewenberg, who is also chairman of the board of the Koret Israel Economic Development Fund, which assigns interns to key congressional offices. According to Bruck, Loewenberg writes lengthy diatribes in the IASP newsletter attacking the peace process, return of the Golan Heights to Syria, and "left-wing politicos and bureaucrats." He supports the immediate move of the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, which Gingrich is asking Congress to endorse.

Koret money also finances a San Francisco foundation that places American interns with right-wing Knesset members such as Rafael Eitan of the Tsomet party and Silvan Shalom of Likud. The foundation's president, Tad Taube, said recently that the intern program "is a key element in our support for free-market reforms." Jewish socialists who helped found Israel would be shocked that some of Israel's most ardent supporters today are equally ardent advocates of laissez-faire economics.

More:
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/1295/9512007.html

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. They may be an extremist right wing group

but at least half them became members of the Bush Administration. This gang is extremely important and influential. Has a matter of fact they are the architects of the Iraq War. Ignore them at your own peril.

[Ian David]

21. Became members of the Bush administration. That makes them credible?

[Frederik]

27. I think the point was

that they are influential, not that they are credible. Their power and influence makes it worthwhile to take a look at their ideas.

[AntiCoup2K4]

37. What it makes them, is the very people who asked for a "new Pearl Harbor".

...and got one, in order to implement their agenda. And in both the 1995 Israeli/Likud document and the 2000 PNAC document, that agenda specifically mentions invading Iraq and removing Saddam Hussein.

I despise the Likud party, just as I despise the Bush Criminal Empire, PNAC and the appeasement pussies who enable them. The religion of any or all of the above is irrelevant, therefore "anti-semitism" has nothing to do with it.

Furthermore, agents of a foreign government being employed in the Pentagon.... Didn't that used to be called espionage?? These treasonous bastards should be Jonathan Pollard's cellmates.

[Eloriel]

59. You've boxed yourself into an untenable corner

The TRUTH is as has been posted: the document entitled "Clean Break" was written by Neo-Cons FOR Bibi Netanyahu who used huge parts of it (verbatim!) a few days later when he spoke to Congress. I believe he also used it in Israel. Following are just a few links, not all of them ultra-right-wing, that you might want to check out. I've only just started collecting links on this subject.

You should also realize that Ariel Sharon is pretty damn rightwing. And it's the epitome of ludicrousness for you to TRY to shrug off ultra right wingers in tghe way you're doing as "not credible." CLUE: IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU FIND THEM CREDIBLE, THEY'RE THE ONES IN POWER!!! THAT GIVES THEM A CERTAIN CREDIBILITY BY DEFINITION.

The document itself:
http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1438.htm
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/archive/1990s/instituteforadvancedstrategicandpoliticalstudies.htm
http://www.gcmhp.net/File_files/clean2k3.html
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0302/S00176.htm (with an excerpt from a Robert Fisk article Feb. 15, 2003, in The Independent)

A Disturbing Document by James Zogby, American Arab Institute
September 23, 1996
http://www.aaiusa.org/wwatch_archives/092396.htm

A clean break for Israel By Sadi Baig
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FF30Ak07.html

The COmmand Post (blog - with some good commentary and links)
http://www.command-post.org/2_archives/013512.html
also see Office of Special Plans: http://www.command-post.org/2_archives/013492.html
also see More on Douglas Feith: http://www.command-post.org/2_archives/013512.html

A 'TOXIC' MEME? Israel's 'amen corner' is cornered (Justin Raimondo) http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j021903.html

Too Many Smoking Guns to Ignore (from CounterPunch)
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/nc-christisons2.html

The war on Iraq: Conceived in Israel (5 Parts plus Notes)
By STEPHEN J. SNIEGOSKI
© 2003 WTM Enterprises. All rights reserved.
http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/snieg_conc1.htm
another article: A closer look: The Israeli origins of Bush II's war By STEPHEN J. SNIEGOSKI http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/snieg_isrorgs.htm

And oh, btw, I always like to post this in every thread in which that that tired, vile, manipulative old "criticism of Israel = anti-semitism" meme surfaces, as it has here:

Halper: Yes. Anti-Semitism feeds on the idea that Israel is a victim. The Foreign Ministry of Israel invented a new form of anti-Semitism in the last few years called the 'New anti-Semitism,' and they then found some professors willing to give it some academic credibility. The New anti-Semitism that is now being spread all over says that any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitism, period. And it has been very effective.

http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/module.php?mod=book&op=print&id=806

[geek tragedy]

62. Do people seriously think that Bush wouldn't have invaded Iraq if the

Israelis didn't pressure him to do so?

I have no doubt that the Israelis let him know that they were on board with the idea, but that's a separate notion than the idea that Israel caused the US to do it.

[Eloriel]

64. i think it's a mistake -- and a trap -- to try to figure out exactly how

much each reason of MANY possible reasons figured into the overall. I think there's something to the fact that Bush wanted to best his father, and simultaneously flatten a foe of his father's, and we know all about the neocon reasons, and about oil. And now we begin (some of us) to understand more about the Israeli security issue reason. I don't think it's terribly important to figure out the percentage each reason figured it, I just don't.

And btw, I can't think of a time when I did anything relatively important for just ONE reason. I usually had either a main reason or a precipitating reason, but there were always supporting reasons. "I'm tired of the way I'm being treated here, I'm going to look for another job. And they don't pay me so great, either."

All I know about the Israeli connection for the Iraq war is that OUR (U.S.) agenda seems to track with both the PNAC and the Likud government agenda for the M.E. Who caused who to think (and do) what when? Who the hell cares? I don't.

[geek tragedy]

65. Then why assert that Israel (or in the case of the racist Mr. Moran, Jews)

were the reason we went to war?

Bush is a classic bully and a tool of oil companies and other corporate interests. It seems that one would need very significant evidence of Israeli pressure before mentioning Israel as being a co-factor with oil and general superpower bullying.

[DoYouEverWonder]

49. So are you inferring

that I'm a neo-nazi because I sited this particular document?

[Englander]

8. The MLK letter is a myth; it's a fabrication.

MLK didn't write it,it's a hoax.

Even CAMERA has admitted it's a hoax.

[Ian David]

11. Really?? Shit, I'd better look into that

[Ian David]

14. Rev. King said it, but not in a letter and not in those exact words

I don't know how you could have missed this, but here I will cite the same article in CAMERA that I presume you were referring to:

Paragraph 1
We must inform you that “Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend” (see at bottom of alert) allegedly written by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., is apparently a hoax, although, the basic message of the letter was indeed, without question, spoken by Martin Luther King, Jr. in a 1968 appearance at Harvard, where he said: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism.” {from “The Socialism of Fools: The Left, the Jews and Israel” by Seymour Martin Lipset; in Encounter magazine, December 1969, p. 24. }.

<snip>

Since the message of the letter (anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism) was one Martin Luther King, Jr. had indeed articulated, we can understand why the King family and the ADL did not feel the need to verify the “Letter to an anti-Zionist friend.” This episode is a reminder of the importance of verifying the authenticity and accuracy of sources, even when they appear to be solid.

Below is a January 21, 2002 op-ed by U.S. Rep. John Lewis, who worked closely with Dr. King. In the op-ed, he shares Dr. King's views on Israel, views which stressed Israel's democratic nature and Israel's need for security. And he also relates that Dr. King said, “When people criticize Zionists they mean Jews, you are talking anti-Semitism.”

Closing / Last Paragraph
This quotation has been confirmed, so you should feel assured that you can use the quotation in letters. Just be sure to mention that it came from Dr. King's 1968 Harvard University appearance, so that no one will think it is from the debunked “letter.”



More:
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_article=369&x_context=8

So, the LETTER is a hoax, but he actually DID express that sentiment verbally in a public speach.

On edit: But thanks for pointing out that THE LETTER was a hoax. For what it's worth, even Rev. Kings own family didn't question it.

[Englander]

29. First off,do you know who CAMERA are?

It's best to take what they say with a lump of salt.

Yes,the letter is a hoax,& it's debatable whether MLK
said the "When people critize..." quote.

MLK was assassinated on April 4th,1968.

The article you cited says,quoting the letter by Congressman
John Lewis;

' >snip

During an appearance at Harvard University shortly before his death, a student stood up and asked King to address himself to the issue of Zionism.'

That's obviously incorrect,or MLK's 'appearance at
Harvard University' is well hidden,as I can't find it.

It's not mentioned at Harvard Crimson,or the MLK papers
library, or the King papers project,&tc,&tc.


' Published on Monday, April 08, 1968
While You Were Away
King Began Peace Drive Here

The Rev. Martin Luther King was last in Cambridge almost exactly a year ago--April 23, 1967. He came here to launch a campaign for peace in Vietnam that eventually prompted Sen. Eugene McCarthy to run for President, and led to President Johnson's decision not to run.

At a press conference to announce "Vietnam Summer," King firmly committed himself to the anti-war movement, giving his "absolute support" to the "massive organizing effort" that was to follow.

"It is time now," he said, "to meet the escalation of the war in Vietnam with an escalation of opposition." He added, "There can be no freedom without peace and no peace without justice."

He spent that evening in a meeting with two dozen top strategists of the New Left. They urged him to focus the anti-war sentiment in the country by running for President. '

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=157725


'King Will Talk on War At '68 Commencement
By LEE H. SIMOWITZ
LEE H. SIMOWITZ

The 1968 Class Committee has invited the Rev. Martin Luther King as a Class Day speaker to insure that the Vietnam war is dealt with directly during the Commencement ceremonies.

The invitation--which King's office has indicated he will accept--represents the first time that a Harvard senior class has independently obtained its own speaker for the Class Day exercises.

By inviting King, the Committee is breaking away from the usual Class Day fare of orations and awards to insist on the treatment of political issues.

The letter to King, signed by Alan D. Bersin '68, one of the four Class Marshals, asked the prominent peace and civil rights advocate to discuss the questions of "Asian conflict and urban crisis."

http://www.thecrimson.com/printerfriendly.aspx?ref=147723


'Mrs. King To Give Class Day Speech
By


Mrs. Martin Luther King will take the place of her late husband as a speaker at Class Day on June 12.

The 1968 Class Committee had originally invited King as its own guest speaker to discuss the issues of civil rights and the Vietnam war.

But after King was assassinated on April 4 in Memphis, Tenn.--only a week after he accepted the Harvard engagement--the Committee extended the invitation to Mrs. King, and she has acceped.

"Whenever it was impossible for my husband to be in a place where he wanted to be and felt he needed to be," Mrs. King said after the assassination, "he occasionally sent me to stand in for him."

The Class Committee and Administration representatives will meet tonight to work out the final format for Mrs. King's visit. '

http://www.thecrimson.com/printerfriendly.aspx?ref=500134


'What is the King Papers Project?

The King Papers Project is a major research effort to assemble and disseminate historical information concerning Martin Luther King, Jr. and the social movements in which he participated.

Initiated by the Atlanta-based The King Center, the King Papers Project is one of only a few large-scale research ventures focusing on an African American. In 1985 the King Center's founder and president Coretta Scott King invited Stanford University historian Clayborne Carson to become the Project's director and senior editor. As a result of Dr. Carson's selection, the Project became a cooperative venture of Stanford University, the King Center, and the King Estate.

The King Papers Project's principal mission is to publish a definitive fourteen-volume edition of King's most significant correspondence, sermons, speeches, published writings, and unpublished manuscripts. The published volumes of The Papers of Martin Luther King, Jr., have already influenced scholarship and become essential reference works. Building upon this research foundation, the Project also engages in other related educational activities. Using multimedia and computer technology to reach diverse audiences, it has greatly increased the documentary information about King's ideas and achievements that is available to popular as well as scholarly audiences. The Project also offers unique opportunities for students to become involved in its research through the King Fellowship Program.'

http://www.stanford.edu/group/King/about_the_project/

[Ian David]

35. I have skepticism fatigue now. I don't know what to believe for now

Maybe tomorrow, I'll figure it all out...

[Englander]

39. Heh..'skepticism fatigue'. That made me laugh..

You're right,it's difficult to know who to believe.

I found the original article by Lewis,& he qualifies
as a credible witness,who knew MLK, but I can't find
any record of this 'appearance at Harvard University'
so.....

'San Francisco Chronicle

"I have a dream" for peace in the Middle East
King's special bond with Israel

John Lewis

Monday, January 21, 2002

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/01/21/ED115336.DTL&hw=john+lewis&sn=019&sc=464

[Ian David]

41. I hope you give me credit for at least having the integrity to CARE...

and to re-check my data when it's challenged.

It's what separates us (or should separate us) from the right-wing.

I suppose that The Harvard Crimson may have censored the Zionism statement from their record, or simply (and innocently) edited for brevity.

Anyway, I'll try to get back to the MLK Zionism statement tomorrow.

[Englander]

44. I'm agreeing with you - when I said your comment ...

made me laugh,I was empathizing,not being critical.

I must have phrased my post incorrectly; apologies.

[Ian David]

45. No, I got it in the spirit it was intended and thought I replied in kind

Thanks :)

[DoYouEverWonder]

47. Open your eyes

We have presented you with solid evidence from credible sources.

I know it's hard to accept information that shakes the foundation of what you have believed all your life. But once you know who and what this cabal is and what they are really about, only then can you effectively fight to change this fine mess that they gotten us into.

I was about 19 when I found out beyond a doubt, what our own leaders and the people who are responsible for our well being were really capable of.
It was a life changing experience.

Then again, on 9-11 and the Shock & Awe wore off, when I realized that our own government, our own leaders, our own president were behind this horrible event. Once you wrap your mind around that concept, you will never look at Bu$h & Co in the same light again.

[pie]

30. Even if King had said it, this would prove nothing

Mark Twain, Ben Frankilin, Ulysses S. Grant, and
Charles Dickens made statements to the opposite.
This also, proves nothing.

[Ian David]

33. Correct, it PROVES nothing (argument from authority) but...

if you honor Martin Luther King Jr. and his philosophy, it should give you cause for more reflection on the matter.

[Frederik]

9. I disagree

First of all, Milbank specifically adressed the literature being handed out as anti-semitic, when it couldn't in any possible way be construed as such. It apparently didn't even criticize Israel, or imply that Israelis had done anything wrong.

"However, it is simply a putting lipstick on an anti-semitic pig to say that Israel wants to take over the Middle East."

No one has said that. McGovern was asked why the US invaded Iraq, and he responded that one of the reasons, alongside the oil and the military bases, was that the current administration wants Israel to be the dominant power in the Middle East. This is nothing but a continuation of the old US policy of relying on close relationships with strong non-Arab allies in the Middle East (as pan-Arabism and Arabic nationalism is the force that the US oil companies and foreign policy elites always have feared the most in that region). After Iran went to the Dark Side, only Turkey and Israel remain. Turkey has become a less trustworthy ally and is heading for EU membership (perhaps) or at least closer ties to a less US-friendly Europe. This leaves Israel, an ally of critical importance in the region.

US foreign policy hawks want a strong Israel surrounded by weak Arab states that are dependent on US military aid to protect themselves against the internal threat of Muslim radicals (America's useful idiots in the Arab world).

The Israeli right-wing wants the same thing. You know this. The Mossad armed the Muslim Brotherhood/Islamic Jihad in Egypt in the 1980s (the Israelis sent them the weapons, and got to pick the targets in return). Islamic Jihad was led by Ayman al-Zawahiri, currently "number two" in al-Qaida. A strong Israel surrounded by weak, unstable Arab states has been Mossad/Likud policy for quite some time, and it's no secret either.

As often happens when interests converge, an alliance was forged between the Israeli right-wing and the hawkish faction of the American right-wing. Both groups shared an interest in designating Muslims and Islamic terrorism as the new Bogeyman to replace Communism and to serve as a pretext for agressive American intervention in the region - most importantly, against Iraq and Saddam Hussein, whose image as a "murderous madman" the Mossad had been busy cultivating since they duped Reagan into bombing Libya in 1986 (see former Mossad colonel Victor Ostrovsky's "The Other Side of Deception", 1994). At that time, Saddam was generally seen as a moderate (compared to the mullahs in Iran).

This alliance is part of the reason why the US is bogged down in Iraq right now. At least, I think it is. And McGovern thinks it is. I don't think it's the most important reason, but one of several. We may be wrong, and if people think we're wrong, they are welcome to argue so. Preferably without resorting to name-calling.

I also think part of the strategic reasoning behind the Iraq war was that it would produce an Arab puppet state that would reduce America's reliance on Israel as a fortified outpost of the American empire.

But, the most important reason was probably to control over the oil under Iraq's soil. I don't think McGovern would disagree.

[BiggJawn]

12. So let us err on the Side of Caution....

...and resolve to NEVER criticise Israel, yes?

Not even amoured bulldozers, as I have learned. There is an unspoken rule in this society, and indeed, even on this board, that ALL criticism of Israel and its policies is merely veiled anti-semitism....

[Skwmom]

17. Any criticism of Israel seems to = anti-semitism.

Which is ridiculous. I have Jewish friends who criticize Sharon. I'll have to let them know that they are being anti-semitic.

[rman]

22. Well, MLK jr has it wrong.

It should be obvious that not every jew is a zionist, much like not every American is a republican. It's not a coincidence the most staunch zionists are Likudnics.

If only MLK jr had known there are in fact many Jewish anti-zionist groups.

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

http://www.nkusa.org/

To them Zionism is in fact heresy;

The State of "Israel" does not represent the voice of Judaism and/or the Jewish people. The Torah clearly forbids the formation of a State, for the Jewish people, in their time of exile.

The Torah forbids stealing land, subjugating and oppressing a people etc.

[EFerrari]

28. The linguistic problem here is really simple.

When a person wants to be careful and distinguish between a government and the people or between a group and the whole of a people, a term is chosen, like 'Zionist', to try to make that distinction.

Actual racists also try to find a term, like 'Zionist', to express their hatred yet fly beneath the radar.

It's a problem.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

40. We disagree, n/t

[geek tragedy]

58. Do you believe that David Duke is merely 'anti-Zionist' instead of

hating all Jews?

There is no doubt that there are some people who hate all Jews that pretend to be 'anti-Zionists.'

[Eloriel]

61. That's not a word I would EVER use

There are too many different definitions, and Lord knows how many different connotations...

Nope. One of the definitions covers what I approve of re Israeli policy and agenda, one of them what I utterly oppose. *I* certainly don't know what people mean when they use the term.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[checks-n-balances]

43. He was addressing a problem that was pretty "black & white" THEN

I agree with the post I'm replying to, and wanted to add that now it is more complicated because:

1. He didn't live to know about people like Sharon and parties like Likud who would have misused their power and alienated the Arab population in general. While MLK was alive, the people of Israel still had a recent history of having been persecuted and truly had been victimized by the Nazi regime. And back then, there WERE truly bigoted people in the world and in the U.S. who were similarly hateful toward Jews, including some who would call themselves "Christians" and learned to use the word "Zionist" to hid behind their racist tendencies and intentions.

2. While MLK obviously advocated siding with marginalized and vulnerable peoples (be they Vietnamese, Jewish, African-American, black African, Japanese interred on our soil, etc.), he would have been appalled had a significant number of people from any of those groups decided to rise up and become oppressors themselves. As other posters on this thread have stated, there are many other Jewish people themselves today who condemn the actions of such people.

3. The Religious Right was not the powerful political entity back in the 1960's that it is today, and many of that group advocate siding with oppressive people, whether they be "Christian" or Jewish or whatever. They side with the state of Israel because they think God wants them to, and that they will be raptured up anyway, regardless of what eventually happens to the Middle East. King would have been appalled by this also, and I feel certain that he would have said as much. Ironically, some of the same (as a Southerner myself, I'm thinking Southern here) types of "Christians" who were truly anti-Jewish for decades, are today's biggest political supporters of "Israel." And they're all for arming Israel to the teeth as Sharon and other hawks are.

4. The words of Martin Luther King, Jr. are not always used today in the way that they were meant at the time. Members of today's Republican party (of which some are yesterday's Southern Democrats) have almost made it a common practice to use his words to their own ends - with their own ends being very much at odds with those that MLK had. Among other things they have perfected over the years, their right-wing leadership have become masters at taking things out of context.

5. The Jewish people are not the only people of Middle Eastern descent who are commonly considered to be SEMITIC.

On edit: added to the first sentence of my post.

[rman]

66. Actually the issue was more diffuse back then

There once were "zionist" groups who did support a homeland for jewish people but were opposed to a it being founded on the jewish religion and they were opposed to it being created by force. These people would now be called anti-zionists.
Noam Chomsky was one of those people;
"The Life and Times of Noam Chomsky: A Brief History of America's Leading Dissident"
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/26/1936241&mode=thread&tid=25
(viedo, audio, transcript)

[bloom]

72. #5

The anti-semitic term for anti-Jewish seems esp. wrong in the context where people are supporting the rights of other Semites to not be oppressed.

And esp. if one supports the rights of Jewish (Semites) AND Non-Jewish Semites - but not one over the other.

[geek tragedy]

73. The term "anti-semitic" was coined/created to mean anti-Jewish.

In other words, anti-Semitic means anti-Jewish.

Part of this is because of the whole "Are Jews a race or a religion or an ethnicity" question.

Restricting "anti-semitism" to mean "anti-Jewish" also makes sense. If someone is biased against Arabs, they're a racist, just like someone biased against blacks. No need for an additional term.

[bloom]

74. The problem is

with people who are pro-all-Semitic-people but Jewish ones. Anti-Semitic does not fit the bill.

Here is an interesting description. I didn't even know that Christianity was considered a Semitic religion.

Semitic is an adjective which in common parlance mistakenly refers specifically to Jewish things, while the term actually refers to things originating among speakers of Semitic languages or people descended from them, and in a linguistic context to the northeastern subfamily of Afro-Asiatic.

In a linguistic context, it refers to speakers of a subgroup of the Afroasiatic languages including, among others, Arabic, Hebrew,Canaanite, Akkadian, and Amharic. These peoples were all descendants of the Phoenicians, which was the Greek name for the Canaanites. The Semitic languages historically stretch all the way along the southern Mediterranean Sea to the Atlantic Ocean, intoMali and along the coast of the Red Sea all the way to Somalia in Africa. Semitic languages are also spoken in European Malta and onSocotra in the Indian Ocean. Additionally, millions of Muslims speak Classical (Qur’?nic) Arabic as a second language, and many Jews all over the world speak Hebrew as a second language. It should be noted that Coptic, Berber, Somali, and many other relatedAfro-Asiatic languages within this area do not belong to the Semitic subgroup.

In a religious context, it refers to the religions associated with the speakers of these languages: thus Judaism, Christianity, and Islamare often described as "Semitic religions". This term can equally include the polytheistic religions (such as the religions of Tammuz or Adad) that flourished in the Middle East before the Abrahamic religions.

Outside linguistics, the term's primary use nowadays is to refer to the ethnic groups who have historically spoken Semitic languages. The best way known to test an ethnic group's common physical descent is through genetic research. Though in genetic research no significant common mitochondrial results have been yielded, genetic Y-chromosome links between Near-Eastern peoples like the Palestinians, Syrians and ethnic Jews have proved fruitful (seeY-chromosomal Aaron). While population genetics is still a young science, it seems to indicate that a significant proportion of these peoples' ancestry comes from a common Near-Eastern population to which (despite the differences with the Biblical genealogy) the term Semitic has been applied<1> (http://foundationstone.com.au/HtmlSupport/WebPage/semiticGenetics.html).

Anti-Semitism is a term whose most common usage typically is to describe anti-Jewish statements or beliefs. However, it is increasingly used by people who apply the word in reference to any Semitic people, especially as a reference to anti-Arabism.

In Genesis Shem is described as the father of the Assyrians, Chaldeans, Aramaeans, Sabaeans, and Hebrews, all of whose languages are closely related; the linguistic family containing them was therefore named Semitic. The Canaanites and Amorites spoke a language belonging to this family, and are therefore also termed Semitic in linguistics despite being described in Genesis as sons of Ham. Shem is also described in Genesis as the father of the Elamites and the far-eastern descendants of Lud, whose languages were not Semitic. As this list makes clear, its meaning has shifted considerably.

http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Semite

[Monkie]

23. ADL history lesson:ADL shares spy with apartheid regime of southafrica

http://www.counterpunch.org/adlspying2.html

"February 25, 2002
The ADL Spying Case Is Over,
But The Struggle Continues

By Jeffrey Blankfort, Anne Poirier
and Steve Zeltzer
Plaintiffs in the of ADL Spying Case

In 1993, the District of Attorney of San Francisco released 700 pages of documents implicating the Anti-Defamation League, an organization that claims to be a defender of civil rights, in a vast spying operation directed against American citizens who were opposed to Israel's policies in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza and to the apartheid policies of the government of South Africa and passing on information to both governments.

~snip~
During the course of the suit we learned that:

Bullock, the ADL's top "fact finder" had sold confidential information to a South African intelligence agent in San Francisco for $15,000.

Ten days before he was assassinated in South Africa, Chris Hani, the man who would have succeeded Nelson Mandela as the country's president, was trailed by Bullock on a trip through California who reported on it to the South African government.

ADL agent Roy Bullock was discovered to have a floor plan of murdered Los Angeles Arab American leader Alex Odeh and a key to his office.

The ADL supplied confidential information to foreign governments that it obtained from police and federal agencies in the US,

Having infiltrated the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC), the ADL's "fact finder" performed a COINTEL-type operation at the convention of the Holocaust-denying Journal of Historical Review when he put ADC's literature on convention tables as a way of smearing the committee for "working with anti- Semites.""

just so you know...

[seabeyond]

19. yet another example of a dem coming out and the media

twisting and manipulating it to an ugly. as they do with dean. as they do with kerry every time he speaks. and then, .....what do we do on this board. attack our fellow dems some more

[helderheid]

24. recommended

"All you bastards know each other" -French Kiss

[gordianot]

31. I have seen similar disrupter at DU suggesting Conyers is Anti-Semitic.

This is an old right wing tactic trying to pit African Americans against Americans who are Jewish. These disruptor's do not last long on DU and are very transparent.

That someone is trying to use this tactic against John Conyers (an American Hero) speaks well of his effectiveness and is a clear sign that he has them worried.

[pie]

34. Clearly Conyers is in no way anti-Semitic

He is an American hero

[ProfessorGAC]

36. He's Paid!

No doubt in my mind. He's a paid operative of the Republican party. My example below is how i come to this conclusion.

I think Isakoff is on the take too! He investigates the Clinton/Lewinsky story for 2 months, gets corroboration, then prints 400 column inches.

Some unnamed source in the WH tells him the troops flushed a Koran. No investigation, no corroboration, no external sources, no eyewitness and he prints immediately. The perfect way to discredit a news source that pays him. The risk is termination. So what? He's already got a job, discrediting news sources.

Millbank is cut from the same cloth. It's all about them. Truth and judgment have NOTHING to do with anything.
The Professor

[Tinoire]

42. Some of us called this one from the start because it STUNK

I pointed out that there was no such anti-Semitic flyer otherwise they would have plastered it up and down the internet.

The hullaballoo here is against Ray McGovern because it's his words that were really being attacked, his statement about the US and Israel seeking to "dominate" that region.

Until the day we can openly discuss the international alliance of right-wing fascism that brought us to this sorry mess, regardless of religion or nationality, we will get nowhere.

You cannot discuss the DSM without discussing PNAC, JINSA, the OSP, the economic fight against the Euro and the oil industry. It's that simple. And if it offends people that Sharon was complicit with Bush & Blair then so be it. It offends my Republican neighbor when I say that Bush knew and Bush lied- big deal.

The way to avoid getting played is to understand HOW you are getting played. Every single entity that plotted together for this mother of all conspiracies war, needs to be dragged out and exposed. None of the conspirators must be allowed to hide behind labels and threaten to tar the truth seekers, which is exactly what is happening here.

McGovern mentioned the complicity of Israel's right-wing government during the hearings (not in any damn flyer) and we're called anti-Semites.
When we expose the American Religious Right's complicity, we're called Christian-haters.
When we expose our government's complicity, we're called America-haters.

Fine. Call me a hater all you want Right Wing, I can deal with it because I know that the truth is that I love humanity and you hate it. Your labels no longer hurt. Nor do they surprise.

Mountains are made out of thin air to smear us. It's time to cut through the charades and get on with business of ending this war by exposing all the lies that led to it and all the government conspiracies.

Here is a repost of something I wrote Saturday:

===
I'm eagerly awaiting to see this mysterious flyer but as time passes, I truly wonder if any anti-Semitic flyer even exists. My gut feeling from the start is that a mountain has been made out of a molehill, with the specific intention of discrediting the DSM participants, which is why they dare not produce said flyer. I've seen the ensuing literature and it ain't pretty. Take this one for example

The Democrats sign up with the anti-Semites
June 18th, 2005

It is important that support for Israel in the US Congress is bipartisan. Israel, the only functioning democracy in the Middle East, has no real friend in the world other than America. (...) A major reason for the support for a strong US Israel relationship in Congress, and the fact that it has remained bipartisan, has been the work of AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.

Regrettably, this bipartisan support appears to be slipping away. A year ago, I wrote an article titled Why the left hates Israel, pointing out how the biggest threat to the Jewish state today comes from the political left. But I noted then, that at least in Congress, where support for Israel might be a bit stronger among the GOP than among Democratic members, the fever swamps of anti-Israel hate had not yet reached into the Democratic side of the aisle, with the exception of a very few members such as Cynthia McKinney, Jim Moran, and Fritz Hollings.

The session took an awkward turn when witness Ray McGovern, a former intelligence analyst, declared that the United States went to war in Iraq for oil, Israel and military bases craved by administration "neocons" so "the United States and Israel could dominate that part of the world." He said that Israel should not be considered an ally and that Bush was doing the bidding of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

"Israel is not allowed to be brought up in polite conversation," McGovern said. 'The last time I did this, the previous director of Central Intelligence called me anti-Semitic."

Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.), who prompted the question by wondering whether the true war motive was Iraq's threat to Israel, thanked McGovern for his "candid answer."

At Democratic headquarters, where an overflow crowd watched the hearing on television, activists handed out documents repeating two accusations -- that an Israeli company had warning of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and that there was an "insider trading scam" on 9/11 -- that previously has been used to suggest Israel was behind the attacks.

The event organizer, Democrats.com, distributed stickers saying "Bush lied/100,000 people died." One man's T-shirt proclaimed, "Whether you like Bush or not, he's still an incompetent liar," while a large poster of Uncle Sam announced: "Got kids? I want yours for cannon fodder."

So the Democrats in Congress are now giving voice and credibility to the view that Israel was responsible for the Iraq war. And other Democrats, watching the hearing at the DNC, are hosting anti-Semites who argue that Israel had advance warning of the 9/11 attacks and is therefore responsible for allowing the attacks to occur. And even deeper into familiar anti-Semitic tropes: that Israelis withheld the information so as to benefit financially.

(snip)
www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4578

Note the stunning conclusion: "So the Democrats in Congress are now giving voice and credibility to the view that Israel was responsible for the Iraq war."

And there you have it.

The fight is against Conyers for allowing McGovern to spew "vile, anti-Semitic rhetoric" simply because he stated that the war was part of an effort to allow the United States and Israel to "dominate that part of the world". And Dean's rebuke, in the name of the Democratic Party was the to Conyers and McGovern which is why it specifically stated "As for any inferences that the United States went to war so Israel could 'dominate' the Middle East or that Israel was in any way behind the horrific September 11th attacks on America, let me say unequivocally that such statements are nothing but vile, anti-Semitic rhetoric".

The DNC, and specifically the Congressional Black Caucus with which AIPAC has been at war, was put on notice by them because

the support for Israel among African American Congressmen, all Democrats, has dropped in recent years. However, the defeat in the 2002 cycle of Cynthia McKinney, and Earl Hilliard, two members who were hostile to Israel, and the election to their seats of Denise Majette and Arthur Davis, has put two highly visible, very pro-Israel African Americans into the Congress.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3371

Likudniks getting scared. Not liking that the CBC marches to its own tune, not wanting any Israeli involvement to even be hinted at in respect to the Iraq war and not liking that the Left has a problem with Bush being wrapped around Sharon's finger ever since Sharon took him on that famous helicopter ride and conspired to manufacture the pathetic evidence used to justify this obscenity against Iraq.

[Frederik]

46. Great post

You nailed it.

[bpilgrim]

48. this attack against our fellow PATRIOT, Ray McGovern, illustrates well

the real problem we have discussing anything to do with Israel in a negative light as there was NOTHING anti-semitic in his testimony but that doesn't stop the right-wing wackos from trying to play the AS card.

even some DU'ers spread this BS though they have never even seen the 'pamphlets' in question.

the most important thing i learned from the horror that was the holocaust is to NEVER FORGET. I owe a debt to those who have shared their horror with us that i can only repay by honoring their memory & pass'n the word.

thank you Tinoire for helping us all keep our promise :toast: :loveya:

peace

[G_j]

56. woo hoo!

I'd nominate your post if I could.
very well said..

As a rule, if they attack, you are onto something.

sticks and stones... but we will keep turning up the lights until the cockroaches have nowhere left to hide.

[geek tragedy]

50. They claimed that Argentian Jews knew the attack was coming.

<snip>
According to Argentine Jewish leaders, the Jewish community in that country �received a warning about an impending major terrorist attack against the United States, Argentina or France just weeks before September 11.� Forward quoted Marta Nercellas, a lawyer for the Delegaci�n de Asociaciones Israelitas Argentinas, or DAIA, Argentina's main Jewish representative body: �It was a concrete warning that an attack of major proportion would take place, and it came from a reliable intelligence . And I understand the Americans were told about it.� (Forward 2-5-2002)
<snip>

Throw in a couple of Mossad references, and we're in Tbrnews territory.

P.S. Guess what? There's no such article on the Forward website.

[Monkie]

54. i call BS part 2: the article on Forward's website here...

http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.05.31/news2.html

"Argentinians Say They Heard Terror Alert Weeks Before 9/11
FORWARD STAFF

Leaders of Argentina's Jewish community received a warning about an impending major terrorist attack against the United States, Argentina or France just weeks before September 11, the Forward has learned. "It was a concrete warning that an attack of major proportion would take place, and it came from a reliable intelligence source," said Marta Nercellas, a lawyer for the Delegación de Asociaciones Israelitas Argentinas, or DAIA, Argentina's main Jewish representative body. "And I understand the Americans were told about it."

quit posting your lies please!

[Frederik]

55. Well, you were wrong about that

How about doing some fact-checking next time?

[geek tragedy]

57. I did fact-check. Unfortunately, the site search function at Google and

Yahoo is as worthless as teats on a boar, as I just learned.

In terms of political reality, however, the stuff can easily give the impression of anti-semitism.

[noiretextatique]

60. here's my take on your comment

in the current political reality, the neoconartists escape culpability and scrutiny by crying "anti-semiticism" and "racism" and "terrorism" and "patriotism" when it's convienent for them to do so. the MSM blindly parrots whatever the neoconartists feed them, and the false meme becomes more of a "story" than the reality masked by the crying and the memes.
given this inevitable cycle, there truly is no "correct" way to speak the truth to or about the neoconartists and their agenda. no matter what is said, no matter how innocuous or damning...the cycle always kicks in to create a false issue while masking the real issue.

[geek tragedy]

63. It's pretty simple: If you're going to be talking about causes of

war and terrorism, don't talk about "Jews."

[noiretextatique]

68. that's ridiculous eom

[geek tragedy]

69. It's ridiculous to talk about causes of terrorism without talking about

Jews?

[noiretextatique]

70. ask the palestinians eom

[geek tragedy]

71. The Palestinians did 911?

[noiretextatique]

75. that was in response to your query

"It's ridiculous to talk about causes of terrorism without talking about Jews?"
ask the palestinians.
and...mere mention of a facts regarding israeli intelligence, or argentinian jews is only considered anti-semiticism by either:
liars (bush, inc)
or
fools (idiot america)

[noonwitch]

67. Israel was one of many governments that warned Bush & CO

Egypt, Italy, etc., also had some warnings. Personally, I think if the Israelis warn you, you should take it pretty seriously. Any group who can track down nazis 50 years later is an efficient bunch of spies.