Catholic Canadian MP denied communion over pro-gay marriage vote

[CatholicEdHead]

Yep, it is not just Abortion and not just here in the US. Expect this to cross the border south to us very soon.

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=38306

"Ottawa, Jul. 08 (LifesiteNews.com/CWN) - TIMMINS, July 6, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Newspapers and radio shows in Canada are rife with the "shocking" news that a Catholic politician has been denied Communion after voting in favor of the federal same-sex marriage legislation. Charles Angus, a Catholic Member of Parliament for the NDP party was Communion after he voted in support of same-sex marriage Bill C-38 in Parliament on June 28.

Angus has characterized the action by his pastor as a shocking and improper action on the part of a lone priest. However, the pastor of Angus's St. Patrick's parish in Cobalt, Ontario, Father John Lemire, told LifeSiteNews.com it is not his choice, but adherence to the clear laws of the Church which forbid Angus from receiving Communion.

Angus told CFRA radio in Ottawa this week, "I feel that we are starting to move into some very uncomfortable waters when the priest is telling me how to vote in the House of Commons." He also accused the priest of illicitly using his role for political pressure. "I felt no matter what else was at stake I can't allow the Eucharist to be a political pressure point," he said.

Father Lemire told LifeSiteNews.com that "it is a consistent teaching of the Catholic Church as voiced by the current Pope and his predecessor" that those who reject Church teaching in grave matters may not be admitted to Communion. Father Lemire stressed that Angus is "very welcome" to come to Mass but cannot receive Communion without repenting of his actions.
..............."

[rawtribe]

1. Tax the churches!

Now!

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Absolutely! If they are going to butt into politics, let them be taxed!!!

[Beaver Tail]

2. Should start a Boycot of Catholic Churches

[MissB]

4. Nope.

Any action has to come from the Catholics.

[geek tragedy]

7. Who else would boycott Catholic churches--Methodists?

;)

[terrya]

5. Damn, this pisses me off...

During the debate on this legislation...and presumably, the months prior to this vote...it was stressed, again and again and again and again....that religions were EXEMPT from this bill. Religious freedom is upheld. No religion, no church...will be forced to perform same-sex marriages. So, religions who are opposed to same-sex marriage will not be forced to perform marriages they oppose.

So, now what do we have? A religion that punishes politicians for supporting a bill that will not affect them.

Wonderful. Just fucking wonderful.

[CatholicEdHead]

8. It's about the current idology and not theology

The vitrol against homosexuals on the Catholic World News site where this comes from is beyond belief. It is like they are the root of every other problem in the church (sex scandle (they think that is the root of the problem, not mandatory celbiacy rule), not following every tradition/rule to the LETTER, (e.g. heritics, "traitors")etc...

[FreedomAngel82]

16. Exactly

Exactly! I've had someone on another board ask what if the church's had to be forced to do gay marriage. I told that would never happen because of our Constiution/Bill of Rights in the first amendment.

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Unlike the American politicians, the Canadians did NOT bend over

for the Church. Give them credit for that much.

[tblue37]

9. Then they should also deny communion to

those who vote in favor of illegal wars, usury, gouging the poor, allowing the rich to benefit from corruption, and other things that violate Church teachings.

[TroubleMan]

28. Or anybody who works for a bank or credit card company

Usury.

[Telly Savalas]

10. They're disciplining a second MP as well.

LONDON, Ont. (CP) - A New Democrat MP has been barred from involvement in church activities by a southwestern Ontario Catholic diocese for supporting same-sex marriage.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/07/08/1123328-cp.html

[CatholicEdHead]

11. This line says it all from your link

"But I think he has to realize, like I have to realize, that we follow the church's law, and I follow it and he should be following it."

Yep, Church completly over state. No discussion is allowed whatsoever.

The Catholic Church is working hard to irrlevate itself out of existance.

[really annoyed]

12. This is why I don't like the Catholic Church

It's church over common sense.

It's church over law.

It's church over humanity.

I'm sick of it.

So, when do the Catholics that support the death penality and war get kicked out? Isn't that "church law" too, or do conservative policies get exempt?

[CatholicEdHead]

14. In the current climate, the latter is pretty much true

Public showings of Piety seem to be what drives the hirerachy. It is also a money issue for the church as besides the drains from the sex scandels, but there is that rumored British guy who embezelled from the Vatican bank.

The best way historically for any religon to get funds quick is to light a fire under the complete agreers for them to open their wallets for salvation/defend the institution in its present form.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. I've had

people say that to me all the time. The thing is not everybody believes and this is why state is over church. It's so frustrating.

[AlwaysQuestion]

13. What a travesty! Not!

As a confirmed anti-organized religion (all varieties) type, I say, so what? The action of the church simply confirms what I've believed since my late teens; namely, that it seeks to stymie the very free will that it preaches we have. Control, control, control--everywhere bureaucracies seek to control.

If there is a a god, that entity simply would not need intermediaries to interpret for the great unwashed. If there is a creator, he would give each of us the ability to feel "the spirit" for ourselves.

So for me, all this falderol about church dictates is just plain silly and flies in the face of common sense. I should think this would be a wake-up call for the MP to take another look at religion.

Of course, none of us will know who among us reached the right conclusions on the subject of religion whilst on earth until we each face the ultimate experience of life--death. Perhaps I should hedge my bets, but that wouldn't be kosher. Besides, what divine spirit would want to punish me for favouring my own conclusions instead of accepting the conclusions of others?

[FreedomAngel82]

18. Exactly

These people seem to like to be the judge when it's not their choice. Christ says that you come to God through him. Not any Bishop or Pope etc. God gave us freewill to choose him or not. With freewill comes choice and consequence. These types of people need to realize that. You have to be fair to other people who don't believe like you do.

[BattyDem]

15. In the long run ...

the Catholic church is only going to succeed in destroying itself. Catholics who aren't already "obeying" every single rule of the church have already decided what "morality" means to them. They're comfortable with the idea of thinking for themselves and not allowing the church to force opinions on them. It won't take long for these "free thinkers" to realize that they can worship a Christian god is many churches, not just Catholic ones. Besides, a church that's still under fire for a HUGE pedophilia scandal is in no position to dictate morality to others. The "sheeple" may ignore the hypocrisy and do as they're told, but the "free thinkers" will simply find another church to worship in. JMHO

[WillowTree]

19. The Church makes very clear...

....what it requires of people. There's nothing ambiguous about it. Nor are Catholics "forced" into anything. They are free to choose to practice catholicism according to the teachings of the Church or worship elsewhere in a congregation that is more in line with the dictates of their own beliefs and consciences. So it is, after all, all about free will.

It's not about politics. It's about religious beliefs. Those who cannot live within or do not accept the mandates of the Church aren't really Catholics in their hearts in the first place and need to stop thinking that the Church is going to change or make exceptions for them. Don't believe what the Church teaches? Move on.

Spoken as one who did exactly that, but who respects the right of religious freedom of others, as well.

[Maple]

22. Yes, they ARE forced

If you are taught from the moment you are born that any deviation from church teachings means you will go straight to hell...for eternity...it's very hard for people to even contemplate 'changing' religions.

It takes a VERY strong person to break away from that brainwashing, and actually use free will.

[CatholicEdHead]

23. That's the moving target nowadays

just what is a "Catholic"? The church is going through a clear bi-polar phase with extreme tradtionalists on one side and more open-minded people on the other.

Since the definiton is so broad, that is where problems come in.

[flordehinojos]

20. i hope he knows it isn't JESUS who is refusing him communion.

It is some bastard ole priest who doesn't know JESUS.

[Matariki]

21. bad politician. no biscuit for you.

[arwalden]

24. Am I Permitted To Speak Harshly Against This? Or Will I Be Accused Of ...

... being an "anti-Catholic" bigot?

When exactly is it okay to scorn church leaders for this type of bigotry and INSANITY?? Someone please advise me on what I should do.

[mmonk]

35. I'm Catholic and say

fire away. The Church used to not be this militant. I sure don't mind speaking my mind about it.

[Solly Mack]

25. Something I'll never understand

People will tolerate from their church attitudes they would never tolerate from their political party or from people around them. They won't be friends with a bigot or a homophobe, but they'll attend to, and defend , religions that sanction bigotry (which homophobia is)

[arwalden]

29. They'll Also Tithe To That Very Same Institution. -- Astounding, Eh?

[Solly Mack]

30. It really is astounding

Boggles the mind...

[arwalden]

31. The Human Mind's Ability To Compartmentalize...

... and to naively convince itself but such bigotry doesn't really exist. They keep telling themselves "not-in-MY-parish". Yet their own silence, and the silence of their OWN parish leaders is the same as APPROVAL AND CONSENT!

It's disgusting!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

33. Stockholm Syndrome? (nt)

[Mythsaje]

26. This makes me feel like singing

"They couldn't see what I thought would be so obvious
They hide behind the laws they make for all of us
The ministry of truth, that deals with pretense
The ministry of peace, that sits on defense
I'm washing my hands of what they're trying to do
It's a me, It's a me, It's a you, It's a you

I'm just a rock n' roll rebel
I'll tell you no lies
They say I worship the devil
They must be stupid or blind
I'm just a rock n' roll rebel

They live a life of fear and insecurity
And all you do is pay for their prosperity
The ministry of fear, that won't let you live
The ministry of grace, that doesn't forgive
Do what you will to try and make me conform
I'll make you wish that you had never been born"

Ozzy's "Rock and Roll Rebel" seems a suitable song.

Or, for something completely different (no, not a man with three buttocks) I feel something like this

"From the bottom of the heap
Shouts an angry voice that says “No, I will not remain asleep”
I have seen it with my eyes
Seen that all religion lives by a steady trade in lies

They try to hold us back with reins of holy smoke
But I am here to say we will not bear the yoke

Once the fact is clearly seen
There is no turning back for fairytales or bloody dreams
If we dare not speak our minds
The Inquisition has a test for each of us in time

Do you trust a creed that claims to set you free
By spending half a lifetime begging on your knees?

Cry freedom! We have nothing but this day...
Cry Freedom We have nothing but our chains – to lose!"

Gaia Consort, "Cry Freedom" from the Secret Voices CD.

http://www.gaiaconsort.com/lyrics.html

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. If people stopped demanding public displays of faith from politicians

as a condition for voting for them, none of this shit would be happening.

Edit: I'm reminded of that line in The West Wing: "You're asking to be lied to."

[Telly Savalas]

37. On the whole, the electorate in Canada doesn't make such demands.

Which is why this guy got elected, why he voted for the same-sex marriage bill, and why the bill passed.

[Ready2Snap]

32. More medieval musings by Fr Lemire

If this asshole doesn't epitomize of "the strict father" nobody does.
Farther down in the above article it says:

"Fr. Lemire noted that the denial of communion is an act of care and concern
for the parishioner rather than a threat or punishment.
It is "to help politicians and people in the pews to better understand
and appreciate the faith" and the seriousness of violating it, he said."
(To quote Cool Hand Luke: "Boss, you're just too good to me.")

In a purely legal sense, he is threatening a member of Parliament.
And by proxy, the citizens of Canada as well. I'm sure they have a law against that.
It's damn well about time someone enforced it. The same goes for this country as well.

I propose a 2-pronged solution: one criminal, one financial.

1)Fines and prison for coercing a politician shouldn't just be for craven capitalists,
it's time religious coercion be made illegal as well.
The Catholic Church has used coercion to pile drive the "unfaithful" into submission for a thousand years.
It's time they, and all religious sects, be held accountable for their acts against the people's representatives.

2)Write to an MP of Canada and to Congress and demand a bill that removes tax exemption
from any religious organization that uses coercion to influence a member of the legislature.
If the officials of the church want to have a say in state affairs,
they should have to pay just like everybody else.

[Patiod]

34. So leave

My mother used to say to me "you can't call yourself a Catholic and believe x, y and z." I finally realized she was right, and left the Catholic church and found one more amenable to my beliefs.

On the other hand, it's acceptable, if not imperative, for a legislator to vot against his/her religion. Are Mormons required to vote for punitive tax legislation that would drive Pepsi and Starbucks out of business? Must Mennonites, Quakers and Baptists push for a New Prohibition? Should Jewish politicians agitate for Saturday Blue Laws? Of course not. You do what you need to do in your personal life, and then vote for what is best for your constituents. If every elected official tried to impose all of their own religion's idiosyncracies, things would fall apart.

[leesa]

36. Then change your religion. If they are this hate-filled, why on earth

would you want to belong to this organization???

[CatholicEdHead]

38. So, just surrender?

Like I said, the church is pretty bi-polar with extreme "pro-life" groups on one side and anti-war groups like Pax Christi on the other.

I do not want to concede the theological discussion.