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murdoch Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 06:12 PM
Original message
Wikipedia and Centcom
I was having an argument on Wikipedia with articles regarding to Korea, such as Gwangju and so forth, that I created an article called "No Gun Ri" to talk about that. For those who don't know, No Gun Ri was a kind of My Lai incident of the Korean war - hundreds of Korean refugees were massacred by US troops. Actually - they were ordered to do so, from on up high, as such things usually go. With the My Lai's and the Abu Ghrabi's, the government and army usually goes after the Lt. Calley's and Lynddie England's, when in actuality the Wheeler/Wallola operation Calley was on had been ordered from up high, as had Abu Ghraib. From the time of Napoleon on, rank-and-file troops disobeying orders and not killing innocent civilians is what has saved countless lives. The orders to commit atrocities usually come from the highest levels, of course, leaving themselves plausible deniability. This applies to all countries. Usually I like to focus on the truly evil people like Karl Rove, instead of something that might lay a guilt trip on some troops from the Korean war, I did it more to tee off Wikipedia's reactionaries than anything.

So anyhow, I created an article on No Gun Ri - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Gun_Ri . On July 11th, someone began white-washing the article. One change he made is to say it was not US policy to shoot civilian refugees in Korea. But it was - the ultimate proof, written orders exist to show this, not to mention testimony of Americans, as well as testimony from Koreans. Thus was changed. As were other things, someone attempted to whitewash the whole thing.

Their IP address was 214.13.216.142. For some reason I became curious who was doing this, so I did a PTR lookup of them. The PTR said the edit came from "n-mnstci-142.mnstci.iraq.centcom.mil". When I saw "mil" I knew it was US military. When I saw CentCom I thought - hey, that's the CentCom I saw in the movie "Control Room". They were the people spinning the Iraq war for the world news media. What was mnstci though I wondered? I did some checking and found out - " Multi-National Security Transition Command - Iraq". The United States Central Command's Multi-National Security Transition Command - Iraq. These are the people trying to rewrite the online, collaborative encyclopedia, trying to write this well-documented incident from memory. Then I changed the page back - and he changed it back to his version. So now I'm having a tug-of-war with this person, who I am paying tax dollars to, so he can try to propagandize me, and remove any mention of something bad the US army did over half a century ago. I find this incredible.

When I walk to the train station from work, I see people in camouflage holding rifles, I see several uniformed police officers walking with a German shepherd (and what do you think that reminds me of?) - it looks exactly what it looks like in the banana republics I have travelled to. Now they're talking about building manufacturing "free trade zones" in the US - even more like a banana republic. 43% of the world's military spending is by the US. The UK, France, Germany, Russia, China and Japan combined only spend 30% of the world's total military spending. And the US's GDP is (slightly) below that of the European Union - and Russia, China and Japan are not in the EU.

I think the day will come when we, the average working people, will get our country back, but it will take a lot of work, and it will probably be a big wreck (and have made the rest of the world somewhat wrecked) by the time Bush and his funders are finished playing with their toy soldiers. And I still can't believe I'm paying someone to rewrite history like this. Why can't the US be giving money to someone doing health care or food in Africa, instead of some guy in Iraq trying to cover up old US massacres, so as to allow the potential for US massacres? I hoep to see a change in tides in the coming years.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. While I'm all for wikipedia,

...you should consider posting the material on a website that you have full control over.

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YDogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Wikipedia has a mixed reputation ...
... to say the least, but isn't it interesting to see what underhanded forces are at play to whitewash history? Before long we'll read on Wikipedia that US troops were greeted in Iraq by children throwing flowers, and that Saddam Hussein himself surrendered to *.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. I didn't click to your link - but do you reference books, papers,
records, especially government records?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. i could be wrong -- but we've had "free trade zones" in the US for quite
a while. maybe it's not the same thing, you're talking about -- maybe there's a diff btwn "manufacturing" and transportation FTZs. i think FTZs are usually associated with multi-modal transport stations. but, there are places called free trade zones in the US where companies get special tax exemptions for using the facility and jumping thru some hoops.
__________________

what you mention, though, about the centcom guy is just infuriating from the standpoint of a functioning republic -- it makes perfect sense in a capitalistic manner or a military strategy manner. both of which don't seem like nice places to live.

__________________

there's another thing too, about the battleground of truth that wikipedia has become. it's an interesting phenomena separate from the political point to be made. what an odd time we live in.
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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe you should post an article regarding what is coming up on
60 minutes II regarding an American Muslim who was arrested by the Justice Department and sent to Syria to be tortured. He was held there and signed every confession when he was innocent of everything and proved it.

The secret side of the war on terrorism.



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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Straight out of 1984...
While this person probably isn't being commanded to make these changes, this sounds like Winston Smith going through documents to rewrite history.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. the deception is despicable
Our lifelong taxes have been used to pervert truth for the benefit
of war criminals and liars... it makes me sick. Even more so, that
this sort of crap is happening today, that there is some lowlife shit
paid to erase american military crimes from collective memory by tax
dollars of honest people.
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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. George Orwell was ahead of his time...
n/t
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ScamUSA.Com Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. mention it on the discussion page for the topic
put it on record and let other wikipedians know whats going on

the IP is already logged... thats fascinating evidence.

Of course eventually the propagandists will use a non-obvious network address to do this type of manipulation.

The most popular visitor to my website is some ISP out of Houston... wonder who that really is.
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ScamUSA.Com Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. I think this is worth a KICK
Serious Issue IMO
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